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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Kent => Topic started by: meggylux on Sunday 23 February 14 11:30 GMT (UK)
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Hello
Please can anyone help with parish records for Bredgar in Kent.
I am descended from Thomas Pye (1) of Newlands Farm Charing Kent 1787-1833. I have details for him and his family and am now looking at the next generation of his Ancestors. In his will he cites his brother, executor as Henry
I believe his parents were Thomas Pye (2) 1753-1824 and Jane nee Hudson of Bredgar who I believe may have lived at Butters Manor. They had 10 or 11 children including a Thomas and Henry.
Now I am looking for Thomas Pye (2) parentage. A Bredgar baptism record for a Thomas Pye in 1853 has parents named Thomas Pye (3) and Susan (Susannah). Whilst Ancestry trees indicate Admiral Sir Thomas PYE (4) 1713 (Farringdon Bucks or Berks) -1785 (London), however I am yet to be confident in suggesting this is so.
From a preliminary search of TP (4), peerage records indicate one legitimate daughter, but biographies suggest he had illegitimate children with his long time mistress, so he may have recognised them. From the will of Thomas Pye (1) there certainly was money in the family.
But the thing that is niggling at me is that I have found on FindMyPast a baptism record for a Thomas Pye (5) baptised in 1699 but FindMyPast does not indicate any further Pye records for this parish.
So my query is, is there anybody able to help me with any further records of any Pye families in Bredgar for Thomas (3) and Susan and before. Unfortunately there does not appear to be an OPC for Bredgar.
I hope this makes sense, sadly this is a family of repeated naming patterns. Many thanks for your time.
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Have you investigated this will?
Pye Thomas Bredgar 1783 1786 PRC17/101/183a PRC16/461 P/5
http://www.kentarchaeology.ac/ekwills_a/series/ekp_p2/ekp_p2n_pik.htm
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No Thank you for that, I will investigate sourcing that one, it could be a big help.
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Thomas PYE baptisms in Bredgar (1540-1915)
1827 9th Feb son of James & Frances. Notes: Bredgar (Farmer)
1787 9th Jan son of Thomas & Jane?
1753 9th Sept son of Thomas & Susan
1699 ? ? Thomas? son of Thomas & Martha Notes: Bapt?
Only one Henry, 1836 Dec 18th, son of James & Frances, Bredgar (Farmer)
Betty
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Bredgar Marriages 1540-1836
Only 4 for PYE men
1770 Dec 23rd By Banns
John PYE Ba otp
Ann WALKER Sp otp
Witnesses: Peter Read Batcheler Hunt
1775 June 3rd By Banns
John PYE Ba otp
Abigail FOWLE Sp otp B
Witnesses: Stephen Hind Thomas Fowle
1825 Mar 2nd By Licence
George PYE Ba Tp
Maria WOOD Sp Tp
Witnesses: George Wood Harriett Gran..?
1826 Jan 11th By Licence
James PYE Ba Tp
Frances WYLES Sp Borden
Witnesses: Thomas Wyles Henry Pye
One PYE bride
1814 Aug 5th By Licence
Edward STROUTS Ba Linstead
Elizabeth PYE Sp Tp
Witnesses: Richard Pye Mary Pye
Betty
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I'll dig out the marriage licences to see if they can add any further details but I'm not at home at the moment - I'm actually very close to Newlands Farm!
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Thank you Betty and 'Bearcat' for your help.
It does look like there is a issing generation between 1699 and 1753, perhaps I need to check neighbouring parishes, although I think the will may be of help.
I cannot find the will on the TNA, so I will call Kent archives to see if they have a copy, unless anyone else may be able to suggest where I may find it.
The Thomas Pye born in Bredgar in 1827 would have been a nephew of my ancestor Thomas Pye the one born in 1787. His children were baptised in Charing.
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You can get a copy of the will from Kent Archives but they are not cheap. You can also order and view the microfilm at a local Family History centre.
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There are some early PYE baptism in Faversham, from 1624 to 1739, parents John & Tabitha, Robert & Phebe, Thomas & Ann, Thomas & Elizabeth, William/Willyam & Marie.
Any use ???
Betty
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Thank you Betty. I will log those, but will have to do more work before getting back to them.
Bearkat; Thank you for all your help, can you just advise me re family history centres. Do you mean I can ask to see them in Devon archives if I order them from there, or do you mean the family history society! Sorry for being a bit thick?
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Found this marriage licence:
Thos Pye of Bredgar, bachelor & Jane Hudson of Stockbury, spinster at Stockbury 31st January 1785 bond Wm Hudson of S farmer.
This webpage explains about how to get copies of the wills
http://www.kentarchaeology.ac/ekwills_a/series/contacts2.html
The Kent Archives is now the Kent History & Library Centre. The latest contact details can be found here:
http://www.kent.gov.uk/leisure_and_culture/kent_history/kent_history__library_centre.aspx
Family History Centres are run by the Church of Latter Day Saints. There are 2 centres in Devon - Exeter and Plymouth
https://familysearch.org/locations/centerlocator
The relevant film has to be ordered for a small fee.
There are more PYE wills that can be downloaded from the National Archives website for a fee of £3.36.
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/wills.htm
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There are only 2 PYE marriages in Charing
Maria PYE to Thomas FLINT of Westwell on 29th October 1831
Mary PYE to James GODDEN of Little Chart on 4th February 1833
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Thank you again. Yes I have those marriages and I have copies of the wills of the two Thomas' (1) and (2), although one of them from the TNA was unreadable, fortunately they have recently been uploaded to Ancestry
Thank you for the information re sourcing the will, I will liaise with Exeter as it is more direct for me... especially since the problems with the train line.
I had spoken to a friend about going to Maidstone for me, but noted how formal the record office is there, I am used to our friendly local one. She said she would go for me, so there is always that avenue too.
Once again thanks for taking the time to help.
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I just wanted to update BettyofKent and BearKat. I have now got a copy of Thomas Pye d. Bredgar 1786.. it has been most helpful and I am on track regarding my research. Many thanks and it highlights the need to be sure of following your own hunches, supporting this with facts rather than following the crowds.
Betty thank you too, I am now utilising some of those marriages you found.
Thanks again for all your help :)
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Happy to help & pleased that some of the marriages were useful :)
Betty
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Hello, I'm just wondering if this thread is still live as I may have something interesting for you. I am the owner of Newlands Chapel in Charing! Thank you
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Yes I am still here, (well I got an email to say there was an update from rootschat, thank you rootschat). Very intrigued by your post and look forward to hearing from you again. Many thanks. :)
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That was a quick response! A short while ago when researching the history of the Chapel your post 'popped up' - there wasn't anything to add to it at the time. However, yesterday I was preparing for a wedding today and took a photo of a marking on one of the stones very high up on the wall. I haven't had a chance to download it to the PC yet but will send once the wedding has finished later this afternoon. If in the meantime you are interested to see where your ancestor was christened and the history of this manor you can google 'Newlands Chapel Charing': there is a Facebook page and wedding website (kentchapelweddings). Your ancestors were definitely here; my research has been mainly ancient history so it would be interesting to know if they were land owners or tenants. :)
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Thank you so much, I look forward to receiving a picture of the memorial. I will send you my email address via the message service on this site.
Since this original post, I have managed to research this family in quite a bit of depth, although I have come to a standstill and am hoping to make a trip to Kent later this year to continue with my research.
A friend was able to source the will of Thomas Pye of Newlands Farm for me, which helped a great deal. Further wills have helped evidence previous generations. It is clear that despite various on line trees assertions this branch of the Pye family does NOT descend from Admiral Sir Thomas Pye, a quick look at a biography of the man and obtaining the Admirals disproves any relationship.
Thomas Pye of Newlands married a widow, who was wealthy in her right, from the terms of her previous husbands will. On his death, his wife died a few years earlier, Thomas left a fair amount of money in the form of bonds and insurances.
Thank you, I had seen the website to the Newlands chapel, but had no documentation to show any link to it, so it is really nice to know that there is some form of commemoration there.
As for landowners/tenants. I think that Thomas Pye rented Newlands farm, I base this on information found on-line re landowners in Kent at the time. Other members of the wider family also appear to have spent time working this farm too. They are all described as gentleman farmers in this era.
However I believe that Thomas Pye of Bredgar, father and grandfather, were landowners. The wider family is also interesting and if you are interested I have various other information in relation to their role in Kent life and development.
I need to take a trip to Kent and Maidstone archives, because whilst I can disprove a link to Admiral Sir Thomas Pye, I need to find evidence of earlier ancestry which I believe may have been linked to the Pye's of Linstead and Doddington of the late 1600's early 1700's. I also have another Kent family to research at the same time, so it will be well worth a trip.
Anyway I am sure I have rambled enough. I look forward to hearing from you again and if anyone has any further information or links to the family I am happy to share information etc.