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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Durham => Topic started by: hiatt219 on Saturday 22 February 14 11:56 GMT (UK)
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My Gt Gt Grandfather was Robert Richardson. I have been unable to find him and his family on the 1861 census, until today I came across what I believe is the family under the name Ritcherdson. The spouse and children all fit, as do the birthplaces, except for Robert himself. His birthplace is given on FindMyPast as Muskham, Northumberland, and on Ancestry as Mushroom. On the actual census return it does look like Mushroom to me. Is there, or was there such a place, either in Durham or Northumberland? I can't find any reference to it. Any suggestions would be appreciated, thank you.
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Do you have him on later censuses, where does that give for his POB?
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I looked at the 1861 and it definitely says Mushroom.
Agree with groom - what is his place of birth on other censuses, please.
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The Northumberland Farm Index lists 'Mushroom' in All Saints, Newcastle upon Tyne in 1860.
There is a Mushroom Quay in Newcastle on Tyne in the 1851 and 1861 censuses.
And a place called Mushroom in the 1841 census.
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Most Census he is born Newcastle c 1836-1840
Did he Marry Hannah VARLEY 1855?
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Most Census he is born Newcastle c 1836-1840
In which case I'd suggest he might have been born here:
Mushroom was the name given to a small area on the north bank of the River Tyne, between St Lawrence and St Peters in the east end of Newcastle. It was a couple of hundred yards to the east of the mouth of the Ouseburn. Alan Godfrey's map of Gateshead East (which includes the north bank) shows the area in 1895: Mushroom was surrounded by manure works, sawmills, a brass works, a whiting works and the St Lawrence foreign cattle sanitorium. Further afield were glassworks and one of the Maling pottery factories. There was a ferry from Mushroom to the Gateshead side, close to Allhusen's chemical works. Altogether not a very salubrious neighbourhood - but needs must ... my own 2x great grandfather lived there around 1861. --
http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/NORTHUMBRIA/2000-05/0958928165
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The other censuses say birthplace Newcastle, or County Durham. I have seen the marriage to Hannah Varley, but I favour another marriage to Hannah Bell. I still haven't completely discounted the Varley one, still checking.
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Its strange as someone has Hannah Varley marrying George BATEY the other male spouse on the FreeBMD entry.
George does have a Wife Hannah 1861 Census.
But Familysearch has Robert marrying Hannah Varley, ages 20 and 18 in 1855
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I also saw the Hannah Varley/George Batey marriage, that's why I favoured the Bell marriage. I haven't seen the family search entry, though, I will take a look at it.
I couldn't get any results on Family Search, very odd.
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The only way to be really certain would be to get one of their children's birth certificates - that would give her maiden name.
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Yes, Groom, I agree that the birth certificate seems to be the way to go. I will send for my Gt Grandads, already have his marriage cert. Thanks to everyone for their help, I will post again once I have received the certificate, and probably need more help!
The thing I love about this forum is that you often get answers which turn your thinking upside down, and send you in different directions, and everyone is so helpful. Thanks again.
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My replies #3 and #5 to your original enquiry seem to have been ignored :'(
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My replies #3 and #5 to your original enquiry seem to have been ignored :'(
I think that it would be very worthwhile to read Replies #3 and #5. Jennifer is one of the most thorough Northumberland & Durham searchers on this forum.
Gadget
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The posts regarding Mushroom by you, JenB were certainly not ignored, they answered my query perfectly, and given me a new area to investigate. As I said in my last post, this is what i love about this forum, we end up going in a different direction to that anticipated.
Thanks again to everyone who answered the query.
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I would like to say thank you too, for I have oft times pondered upon a phrase in a Geordie song I have on a record somewhere. The song mentions 'the mushrooms' and I had no idea what it meant. Now I'm trying to remember what the name of the song was ???
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I received the certificate this morning, and the Mother is Hannah Varley. Plenty to go at now, I had discounted her in my thoughts, partly because of the George Batey "marriage", and partly because I recall my Grandmother talking about Hannah Bell. Just shows, you have to check!
Thanks once again for all your help.
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I have also found the recitation about The Mushrooms that I had on my record 60 years ago. This was partly by chance for I was researching Ryton and so came across the most excellent Blaydon Burn History web page by Geordie Singer Roly Veitch - http://www.rolyveitch.20m.com/BlaydonBurn.html
Thinking that he may know about that old recitation I asked and he found it. It is called "A Tow For Nowt" and it is in this long list of old Geordie sangs - http://www.archive.org/stream/allansillustrat00firgoog/allansillustrat00firgoog_djvu.txt
The Copyright has long expired and so it can be reproduced as long as not used for financial gain:
A TOW FOR NOWT.
Oh, wor cargo we'd got oot, away doon at Whitehill Spoot;
But the wind an' tide wis both on them contrairy, O!
An' it seemed we'd hae te lie till the tide wis comin' high,
So the keel we moored, an' leuked aboot se wary, O.
Chorus,
So the keel we moored, etc.
Just then, te wor delight, a tugboat hove i' sight,
An' backed astarn close by where we wor stannin', O.
Ses aa, noo aa'l accost hor! so aa hailed, 'Hey, Mistor Forster,
Wad ye gie's a tow as far up as wo'r gannin', O ? "
Then the tugboat-maistor torned, an' he leuked, an' kinda gorned,
Ses he, "Hoo dis thoo knaa they caal me Forster, O ? "
"Man," ses aa, "yor dad afore wis a chep aa did adore,
An' yo'r just like him, maa canny Mistor Forster, O."
Iv a frindly kind o' way, aa got a tow that day;
An' off we set, wi' nowt at aal te cost hor, O.
Aa bargaint wivoot doot, as aa past wor towlin' oot,
"At the Mushroom hoy hor off, please Mistor Forster, O."
So we cam' up spankin' fine, an' past aal on the Tyne —
Sic a tow for nowt aa waddent then he lost hor, O.
An' we just hed past The Geuse, an' aa thowt o' gettin' lowse;
So, ses aa, "Just hoy hor off, please Mistor Forster, O."
Wi' the tiller 'tween his legs, just like twee wooden pegs.
He nivvor torned, but oney went the faster, O.
Aa shoots oot, "Here we are, yor gannin' ower far;
Aa telt ye 'twas the Mushroom, Mistor Forster, O ! "
What wis deein noo wis clear, so aa couldn't help but sweer.
" Yo'r a bad 'un, yo'r as bad as ony coster, O !
An' so wis yor aad dad — gosh, he wis just as bad !
Where the smash, man, are ye towin's te, ye Forster, O ? "
But it aal wis o' nee use, owther sweerin' or abuse;
For a joke there Forster steud as deef as dummy, O ;
An' he waddent hoy us free till past Newcastle Quay,
So, thinks aa, a tow for nowt is sometimes rummy, O !
Richard Oliver Heslop 1882.
Roly's Blaydon Burn web page actually solved another mystery, that of my Oliver ancestors and places they lived around 1750. I'll tell that story on a new topic.
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Perhaps I should add that one of the ancestors who lived at Ryton was born Susannah Richardson, so I'm on the hunt for Richardson's now. She married Matthew Oliver, but died in 1783 just two months after her daughter died. Matthew lived on until 1807 when he was living at Byker Hill in Newcastle. They brought him back to Ryton for his burial. I would like to think that they carried him by boat to Ryton Willows where the big battle was fought in 1640 between an invading Scots army and a handful of English defenders.
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Browsing through Newcastle Libraries images on Flicker this morning I came across this photo of Mushroom Quay c1886 which you may find of interest.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0z82/
Boo
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Thanks for that, Boo. It doesn't look a great place to live, but I guess at that time you took what you could get! Interestingly, one of the other photos in that link is of William Doxford engineering. I also have Doxfords in the same line as Robert, though much later. I wonder if there could be a connection there? More research!
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Thanks for that, Boo. It doesn't look a great place to live, but I guess at that time you took what you could get!
Well, no posh expensive apartments on the banks of the Tyne back in those days. It was a working port and enormous numbers of people were jammed into a very small space to be near the work that it provided - along with the rats and all sorts of other niceties that came from living so near the river :-)
I have people on my tree who lived not far away. They came from Ireland for a chance at life. Then, as now, the newly arrived and poor folk 'did' take whatever they could get. They worked hard though, made sure that their children got as much education as they could which gave them better chances in life. Life improved steadily over the generations, we have a lot to thank them for :-)
Boo