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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: Cumberland Lad on Saturday 22 February 14 02:04 GMT (UK)

Title: John Wardle
Post by: Cumberland Lad on Saturday 22 February 14 02:04 GMT (UK)
Looking for information on John Wardle born 1865 in Lancashire. I cannot find him on the 1871/1881/1891 census. He turns up on the 1901 census in Cumberland, on the census it states he was born Manchester. In 1899 he married Mary Elizabeth Simpson (Finlinson) at Rosley Church in Cumberland. On the marriage certificate it has his father as Reuben Wardle. On the 1911 census it states his place of birth is Rochdale Lancashire. I have not been able to connect John to any Reuben anywhere. Hope there is someone out there that maybe able to help. 
Title: Re: John Wardle
Post by: garstonite on Saturday 22 February 14 07:07 GMT (UK)
I am a bit confused
John Wardle born 1865
but says born 1899 on 1901 census ???
did you mean that REUBEN WARDLE was b 1865 ??.....if so -is this him ??

Baptism: 31 Dec 1865 St Wilfrid, Standish, Lancashire, England
 Reuben Wardell? - [Child] of William Wardell? & Eliza
     Abode: Standish
     Occupation: Collier
     Baptised by: W H Brandreth Rector
     http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Search/indexp.html
 
ADDED...OK - sorry .....I misread your post ...
John Wardle b 1865 Manchester or Rochdale
married in Manchester in 1899
1865 WARDLE   .. John      ..Hulme, Manchester   HUL/125/14
www.lancashirebmd.org.uk      could this be him ??

could this be a brother of John Wardle ??
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FMTH-LVR
Title: Re: John Wardle
Post by: garstonite on Saturday 22 February 14 07:28 GMT (UK)
I wonder if this is Reuben the fathers marriage in February 1865 -in Ardwick, Manchester ??
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/233T-ZLV

a John Wardle being born in december quarter 1865 later in the year in Chorlton,Manchester according to www.freebmd.org.uk ??

also in Chorlton -   ..  Death     dec qtr 1895 aged 52   WARDLE Reuben    Chorlton  8c 653
Title: Re: John Wardle
Post by: Sharon01 on Saturday 22 February 14 07:46 GMT (UK)
Hi,

The Nehemiah Chadwick Wardle mentioned by garstonite seems to be with his Grandparents (the Hills) in 1871.
RG10/4090/66/19

Sharon
Title: Re: John Wardle
Post by: Sharon01 on Saturday 22 February 14 07:56 GMT (UK)
1881. Ashton Under Lyne


Hope Hill  66 Head widower born Broadbottom, Cheshire
Ellen Hill  17 dau born Broadbottom, Cheshire
Betty Wardle  37 cotton weaver married born Broadbottom, Cheshire
Emmanuel Wardle  14 grandson born Broadbottom, Cheshire

RG11/4060/65/17
 



 
Title: Re: John Wardle
Post by: garstonite on Saturday 22 February 14 08:19 GMT (UK)
as it looks like Reuben didn`t die until 1895 - in Chorlton ...I would say Sharons find of wife Elizabeth Hill ( Betty Wardle in 1881 census ) is a great find - so - did Reuben and John Wardle work away - or maybe they were sailors ??
What occupation were
Reuben Wardle
John Wardle - on Johns Marriage Certificate ???

by coincidence ...my grandmother was born in Broadbottom ....a lovely place
Title: Re: John Wardle
Post by: Sharon01 on Saturday 22 February 14 08:23 GMT (UK)
Reuben is with the Warrington family in 1871.

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/KZP6-SVN

Sharon
Title: Re: John Wardle
Post by: garstonite on Saturday 22 February 14 08:33 GMT (UK)
Thanks Sharon - did you notice it is Chorlton and underneath it says Ardwick District ...so the Marriage of Reuben Wardle to Elisabeth Hill in February 1865 in ARDWICK - and the birth of John Wardle dec qtr 1865 in Chorlton,ARDWICK now look to be the John and Reuben Wardle that Cumberland Lad is looking for -
but why does John say Rochdale born in 1911 census - that`s the only thing that stops it being a definite - ??
Title: Re: John Wardle
Post by: Sharon01 on Saturday 22 February 14 08:53 GMT (UK)
Thanks Sharon - did you notice it is Chorlton and underneath it says Ardwick District ...so the Marriage of Reuben Wardle to Elisabeth Hill in February 1865 in ARDWICK - and the birth of John Wardle dec qtr 1865 in Chorlton,ARDWICK now look to be the John and Reuben Wardle that Cumberland Lad is looking for -
but why does John say Rochdale born in 1911 census - that`s the only thing that stops it being a definite - ??

I agree but can not see any other family that ties in. Also no sign of John anywhere before 1901, tried looking under the name of Hill but nothing stands out.

Sharon
Title: Re: John Wardle
Post by: garstonite on Saturday 22 February 14 09:26 GMT (UK)
1881. Ashton Under Lyne


Hope Hill  66 Head widower born Broadbottom, Cheshire
Ellen Hill  17 dau born Broadbottom, Cheshire
Betty Wardle  37 cotton weaver married born Broadbottom, Cheshire
Emmanuel Wardle  14 grandson born Broadbottom, Cheshire

RG11/4060/65/17

Sharon - John b dec 1865 ....Emmanuel aged 14 in 1881 so born after march 1866  to dec 1866 ???
do you think it`s possible that JOHN WARDLE - is EMMANUEL WARDLE in 1881 census ??...wouldn`t be the first time parents used a name change ...especially if Reuben and Betty had split up ???
or am I clutching at straws ???...would explain why we can`t find John Wardle in census ??

ADDED....OOOHHH..lol   NO EMMANUEL WARDLE birth between 1840 and 1875 on freebmd...so my theory is possible ??
Title: Re: John Wardle
Post by: rolnora on Saturday 22 February 14 09:39 GMT (UK)
There's a copy of Reuben and Elizabeth's marriage here

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-12660-31240-61?cc=1788853&wc=M9W1-N4D:n970083656
Title: Re: John Wardle
Post by: garstonite on Saturday 22 February 14 09:49 GMT (UK)
There's a copy of Reuben and Elizabeth's marriage here

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-12660-31240-61?cc=1788853&wc=M9W1-N4D:n970083656

That`s great Rolnora -John Wardle - Occupation Banksman ...
to my Knowledge a Banksman was the man who held the "stick" with different marker heights on it whilst the Road / canal /railway engineer calculated the route / direction of the road /canal/railway with his Theodolite (like a mini telescope on 3 legs )....this may explain why he was never with Betty in Census returns ...looks like he worked away from home a lot ...good find ...thanks again...
Title: Re: John Wardle
Post by: Sharon01 on Saturday 22 February 14 10:12 GMT (UK)
I think Reuben remarries.

Reuben Wardle 38 marries Mary Jane Toulson 31 on 6/05/1883, Ashton under Lyne, Lancashire
Fathers Daniel Wardle & William Toulson.

Sharon

Title: Re: John Wardle
Post by: rolnora on Saturday 22 February 14 10:22 GMT (UK)
Reuben is with the Warrington family in 1871.
Sharon

Not sure that this is the Reuben we want.
He's been transcribed as Rebecca but looking at the image it is Reuben, he's a carter,unmarried and born Great Budworth Cheshire.Living at 30 Broom St Ardwick.
RG10; Piece: 3978; Folio: 107; Page: 32

 
Title: Re: John Wardle
Post by: garstonite on Saturday 22 February 14 10:41 GMT (UK)
I think Reuben remarries.

Reuben Wardle 38 marries Mary Jane Toulson 31 on 6/05/1883, Ashton under Lyne, Lancashire
Fathers Daniel Wardle & William Toulson.

Sharon

sadly Betty died dec qtr 1881 aged 38 - Ashton Under Lyne ....
John and Mary  have children born  in Wigton ( where he married )
Bessie dec qtr 1899 -named after his mum
John Edward mar qtr 1901
Harold mar qtr 1905
Cumberland Lad - did John have any more children after Harold ?...but not in Wigton ?

1842 at St Michael , Ashton Under Lyne  Thomas Hill to Hope Chadwick = Elizabeth Hills parents
their fathers are named here
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NFF2-1S6

Rolnara - not sure what you mean ?...why isn`t it the Reuben we are researching that is with the Warrington family ?...a Carter would be anywhere in the area work wise ...
Title: Re: John Wardle
Post by: rolnora on Saturday 22 February 14 11:02 GMT (UK)
Sorry everyone,

I didn't read the previous posts properly and was working on the theory that he should be married and with Elizabeth/Betty. :-[
Title: Re: John Wardle
Post by: garstonite on Saturday 22 February 14 11:14 GMT (UK)
Sorry everyone,

I didn't read the previous posts properly and was working on the theory that he should be married and with Elizabeth/Betty. :-[
No Rolnara - it is I who should be apoligising - you are right - !! if Rueben married in 1865 - he would not be single in 1871 census would he - unless he lied and he and Betty had split up and he classed himself as a single man again .....well spotted
Title: Re: John Wardle
Post by: rolnora on Saturday 22 February 14 11:25 GMT (UK)


So working on the premise that they didn't live together the 1881 census that Sharon found
is the correct record and a brilliant find.
Title: Re: John Wardle
Post by: garstonite on Saturday 22 February 14 11:29 GMT (UK)


So working on the premise that they didn't live together the 1881 census that Sharon found
is the correct record and a brilliant find.
Yes - I would say so ...the only thing bugging me is the 1911 census where John says he was born Rochdale - apart from that EVERYTHING else seems to fit together like a jigsaw ...
Title: Re: John Wardle
Post by: Sharon01 on Saturday 22 February 14 11:46 GMT (UK)
Not that this helps in any way but  Nehemiah Chadwick Wardle had a son called John and after 1891 he doesn't appear on the 1901 & 1911 census. His wife is back in Cheshire but is down as married on both censuses.

Sharon
Title: Re: John Wardle
Post by: rolnora on Saturday 22 February 14 12:43 GMT (UK)
Yes - I would say so ...the only thing bugging me is the 1911 census where John says he was born Rochdale - apart from that EVERYTHING else seems to fit together like a jigsaw ...

I'm not happy with that either. There are a couple of births records on Lancs BMD that could very easily be the John Wardle married to Mary E and born Manchester 1901 and Rochdale 1911.
Think they would need to be discounted to be sure of the correct one  ???
 

Title: Re: John Wardle
Post by: Radcliff on Saturday 22 February 14 13:52 GMT (UK)
Nehemiah Chadwick Wardle his father (amended) ,Reuben , is a publican, on his marriage,

and is in Scotland with his wife Alice in 1891
Title: Re: John Wardle
Post by: Sharon01 on Saturday 22 February 14 16:38 GMT (UK)
Nehemiah Chadwick Wardle his father Daniel , is a publican, on his marriage,

and is in Scotland with his wife Alice in 1891

Father is Reuben on his marriage.

Sharon
Title: Re: John Wardle
Post by: Radcliff on Saturday 22 February 14 16:45 GMT (UK)
Sorry Reuban is  down as publican, St Peter Ashton Under Lyne,
Title: Re: John Wardle
Post by: Cumberland Lad on Saturday 22 February 14 18:58 GMT (UK)
I would like to thank everyone for there help. :D
Title: Re: John Wardle
Post by: Radcliff on Saturday 22 February 14 20:56 GMT (UK)
Lancashire bmd,

Emanuel Wardle, birth registered Hulme, 1868

but possibly the child of William and Sarah Wardle, living in Hulme in 1881, census,