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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: timeforteasir on Wednesday 19 February 14 11:33 GMT (UK)
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Hey, I am new here and I am looking for help with my surname, Bernat-owicz, I know where it possibly is from but whether it's true or not I'm about to find out. Bernat came up in French, Scottish and even English sources. I know that the ending -owicz is actually Polish so can it be a Polinized British Surname?
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Hi and welcome :)
It's not a name I am familiar with, but there's a fairly recent thread here:
www.polishforums.com/genealogy-ancestry-6/bernatowicz-surname-am-starting-wonder-anyone-family-was-68564/
in which a contributor says it has been in use in Poland for hundreds of years and derives from the Germanic name Bernhard.
Unless you have particular reason to think there are British roots to the name as it occurs in your family, I'd think it unlikely.
Do you know the family history of the generations immediately preceding you in your ancestral line?
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I have seen that post before but it really isn't helpful, are you suggesting Germanic origin for my surname? ???
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I'm not suggesting anything, but the explanation given on the linked website seems at least plausible so I don't understand why you think it is so unhelpful.
What is said there is that the Germanic given name "Bernhard" became used in Poland as "Bernard" and from that evolved the surname Bernatowicz.
Have you researched what the -owicz suffix means in Polish? Seems to be "son of" according to this website:
www.polishroots.org/Resources/SurnameSearch/Surnamesendings/tabid/118/Default.aspx
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Oh, so my surname is a Polonized version of a personal Germanic name Bernhard? :P
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I wouldn't say Polonized because the surname seems to be Polish in origin.
So the thinking would be that the first Bernatowicz would have been Polish, a son of "Bernard".
"Bernard" would have been able to trace his given name to the Germanic name "Bernhard" made up from the elements bern "bear" and hard "brave, hardy".
Logically it would be much the same as a Robertson in Britain.
The first Robertson was a son of Robert. Robert is a long-established name which has been used in Britain for about 1000 years (long before inherited surnames came into use). Its roots are the Germanic elements hrod "fame" and beraht "bright".
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It is difficult to know the origins of even some of the more common surnames with any certainty, so with surnames of European origin it is even more difficult. It can simply come down to best guesses.
If you trace your ancestry it may lead to some clues as to origin. Surnames are a relatively recent occurence and they have changed and developed over the centuries.
Something else you may like to consider is a DNA test which might give you clues as to where your family originated.
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Well I got the less common looks in Poland because I have Ginger hair, blue eyes etc, I look very much Germanic to the very last drop of blood I can assure you that I've got some sort of Germanic DNA in me. ;)
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Hi timeforteasir
Not many Bernat's in Scotland :)
Putting the name Bernat into searches on Scotlands People
all counties and districts,
comes up with the following
OPR's,,,,1 birth,, 1704
Statutory births,, 5 between 1950 and 1980
OPR Marriages,, 1 marriage haven't worked out a date for that
statutory marriages,, 1 male
3 females
so relatively new they should still be on their honeymoon period. ;D
Elaine
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I know but it appears in British records so I'm curious if Bernats came from the UK in the 1500 to Poland and Polonized their surname? ???
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Hi timeforteasir and welcome to Rootschat :)
Where are you in the world? UK, USA, Australia etc?
How far back have you traced your Bernatowicz ancestors? Can we help you with that? The more you know about them, the easier it may be to find the origins of the surname.
Kind Regards
Gaie
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I deleted the post.
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You've answered one of your own questions - they came from Belarus/Warsaw. ;)
If I were you I would ask questions of my oldest living ancestor - names, places, dates, siblings - anything at all that they can remember or any stories they heard from their own relatives.
Did they all come to the UK? Were any of them naturalised?
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If I were you I would ask questions of my oldest living ancestor - names, places, dates, siblings - anything at all that they can remember or any stories they heard from their own relatives.
This is very good advice.
There is no public centralised general record office in Poland that gives, say, access to births, marriages and deaths such as we have in England & Wales. And church baptism, marriage and death records have not been as comprehensively transcribed and made available on the internet as here.
A useful website for when you get back to pre-World War I ancestors is Geneteka http://geneteka.genealodzy.pl/?lang=pol ; records are frequently being added.
KR
Gaie
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That's not all people on Polish Forums saying that Bernatowicz is actually Armenian.
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That's not all people on Polish Forums saying that Bernatowicz is actually Armenian.
Does it really matter what it's origins are is at this stage? If you want to trace your ancestors, knowing the origin of the surname is not necessarily going to help you. I've seen cases of people completely adopting a different surname in earlier generations and that new surname then carries down through the generations - I have an example of this in my own family. People also have aliases for various reasons. The possibility of illegitimacy also needs to be considered.
But if you are merely trying to discover the origins of your surname, maybe you should do some investigation in the country/countries where your family members came from? Presumably you can speak the language which I imagine would be an essential requirement.
What people of forums say is not necessarily correct. It could also be the case that the surname is widespread over numerous countries, spellings may vary though the roots of the name may be the same, surnames which sound similar may have different origins. It's a bit of a minefield.
Once again I would advise you to speak to the 'elders' in your family. Write down everything they tell you. It is amazing where a name or place which might seem insignificant, can lead you.
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Last time I checked immigration to America 3 members were Prussian (Yet so I would consider them German.) 1 person was German and 1 guy was Austrian. So my surname is quiet Germanic.
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You are really going about this the wrong way (as has already been pointed out).
I live in Ireland. My father has an 'English' surname and my mother has an 'Irish' surname. Sounds simple? Well actually, no. My father's 'English' surname is actually the English version of a Scottish occupational surname. My mother's surname is found in Ireland but she hasn't any Irish blood- her family is actually German and the surname has slowly evolved in each generation from what we think is the original one to its present form. Her mother's surname is also found in Ireland but again is German.
So, you cannot assume a family's origin from the surname.
Also, we aren't allowed to post details of living people so your earlier post will need changed to remove names and birth details of those who are still alive. You can do this yourself within first 24 hours or click on 'report to moderator' for it to be done for you.
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I started off in Family History because I knew nothing about my surname.
My grandfather died before I was born, and my father's siblings had all died, too.
I had (and have!) no interest in any alleged origin of the surname - I only want documented proof of links between generations.
So, I started methodically, pre-internet, working from micro-fiche, microfilms and books, until I got back to the early/mid 1800's.
Since then, I have linked my tree to someone doing a one name study, and have data back to the mid-1500's.
Is my name, Garrad, Germanic (No!), or French (Family story - No!) - it's pure English all the way!!
So, the moral of this story is - never second guess - do your research methodically and systematically.
Also, learn your history! ;D The interwoven histories of Germany, Prussia, Poland, Belarus, Armenia etc are very, very complicated!! ::)
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I know. ;D I will start proper research! 8) Thanks for the help everyone :)
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Found out my Ancestors were Russian and so is my Surname. I am a little Belarusian after my Grand father and when he was born it used to be part of Russia in 1939 so yeah!
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Also a thing to point out is that I am Lubuszian because I was born in Gorzow, Western Poland and before I end the thread I have to say I thought I had Scottish ancestors because I look really really Germanic but again what can I say? My town used to be East Brandenburg in Germany until 1945!
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Because of my looks (short, dark and
handsome overweight!) , I have been accused of being Irish, Italian and Celtic!
None of those apply! ;D
You cannot go by looks or names - you simply have to do the research!! ;D ::)
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Europe was a mess, to say the least, just a little info I found on a man called Zenon Bernatowitcz
http://benmangel.wordpress.com/2012/08/11/rzeczpospolita-the-last-days-of-private-zenon-bernatowicz/
Under Secretary for State of Poland Grazyna Bernatowicz
http://strasbourgre.mfa.gov.pl/en/news/current_news/bernatowicz
http://www.houseofnames.com/Bernatowicz-history?A=54323-292
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Because of my looks (short, dark and handsome overweight!) , I have been accused of being Irish, Italian and Celtic!
None of those apply! ;D
You cannot go by looks or names - you simply have to do the research!! ;D ::)
;D
You have been advised to do systematic research backing it up with paperwork. Saying you are German one minute, then Armenian, and then Russian the next and speculating that you thought you had Scottish ancestors because you look Germanic, is quite meaningless and leads you nowhere.
You might have more success if you visit the places of your and your ancestor's birth, to see if you can find records of their births, marriages and deaths.
Also, take a DNA test and see what that tells you.
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Hi
Found out my Ancestors were Russian and so is my Surname. I am a little Belarusian after my Grand father and when he was born it used to be part of Russia in 1939 so yeah!
And your mother's ancestors, and your paternal grandmother's ancestors......?
Your ancestry is just as much of them as your grandfather!
KR
Gaie