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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Topic started by: kshaw on Thursday 06 February 14 14:08 GMT (UK)
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I am helping a friend with her family history and have run into a bit of a query.... I have a marriage record for James Currie (a mason/ journeyman) 18 & Margaret Sharkey 18 of Glasgow dated 12 April 1878.
Her parents were listed as John & Margaret (m.s. Taylor) which I have confirmed is correct.
His parents were listed as John and Margaret (m.s. Marr or Mars) I am having a really hard time finding any records, what- so- ever for his parents....ever document I've found has a different mother listed.
I can't find a record of a death for a Margaret Currie m.s. Marr or Mars, it doesn't say deceased next to any of the parents....so I can only assume that she was alive to give her maiden surname.
I do know that James's dad was John Currie and was a mason from the Glasgow area...however his mother is just a mystery. I know that I have the right marriage record, I just can't figure out why there is no record of the mother being named Margaret Marr or Mars.
Any help would be great.... even if it's just a thought. K
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Just for reference for others, is this James and wife Margaret in 1881:
James Currie 21 mason b. Glasgow
Margaret Currie 21 dealer b. Glasgow
James Currie 2 b. Glasgow
Mary Hope 29 lodger Shirt Machinist b. Ireland
Address: 26 Duke Street, Glasgow Blackfriars
Monica
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Yes I think so.... that is the only one that I've found that matches. I have them in the 1891 census at 4 Buchanan Lane, Glasgow.
I just can't find info on his (James Currie 1860 Glasgow area) mother
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Funny thing is this is the only BC I can find for him but the mother's name is different....
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Hi,
Looks like the father is deceased at the time of the marriage - perhaps the mother remarried?
Don't think it's likely that someone changes occupation from iron moulder (on BC) to mason (on MC)- although anything is impossible.
Jen
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What does John Currie's death certificate say? Was Margaret the informant?
flst
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Hi flst and Jen.
I was just looking for a possible death for John Currie and see some reference on some people's family trees to some of the children in Canada. Did they all head out there as a family?
Children's names as at 1891 don't really help much do they:
James Currie 31
Margaret Currie 31
James Currie 12
Margaret Currie 9 https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XTXZ-LZG
Neil Currie 5
Lizzie Currie 2
Mary Currie 10 Months
Agnes Fraser 7 relative
Address: 4 Buchanan Lane, Glasgow Calton
One further birth showing here https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XTFS-JJC
Monica
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Hi All,
Have you found them on the 61 census? At least you'd get an inclination of where James was born? I see a marriage for a Peter Currie and a Margaret 'Munn' but that's not till 1866 :-\.
Jen
Sorry that should have been John Currie and Margaret Munn - there are actually three marriages of a John Currie to a Munn, Glasgow - Margaret in 1866, Dunbarton - Mary in 1861 and Glasgow -Isabella in 1863. Not much use though if the name's Marr :-\
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Apologies if this is already been stated but for some reason I can't view the attachments in the replies but I think Margaret Currie's maiden name on the marriage cert is Man :-\
Looby :)
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The surname is definitely "Marr".
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The 1861 census for 71 Stewart Street,Glasgow shows John Currie (37), his wife Elizabeth is 29 & was born in Bo'ness. There is John aged 3, & James aged 1.Also there is John's stepson Thomas Dunlop, 12 & George Dunlop, 33, his brother in Law.
flst
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The surname is definitely "Marr".
Oops , sorry.
I'll go and clean my specs :-[
Looby :)
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Interestingly, my Paternal Great Granny's Sister, Jane/Jean/Jeanie/Jeannie Dunlop (1858-1923) had a child William Marr (1878-1897) although she did not marry his father also William Marr but went on to marry a Francis Goudie in 1889 in Neilston.
I'll try and have a look and see if there is any connection.
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Hi all sorry, I wasn't getting updates for some reason.... anyways
Yes most of this Currie family went over to Canada. I keep getting pulled back to the Dunlop/ Currie family as a match, which is why I posted that BC which Elizabeth Dunlop as the mother. I can't find a BC for a James Currie with parents of the same names as listed on his MC. Also can't find a BC or DC for for a Margaret Currie m.s. Marr or Mars (I've looked at both but also think that it looks more like Marr)
oops you're right John Currie was listed as deceased on the MC I mixed myself up... I looked at a lot of DC for men named John Currie who would have been born about the right time to have an 18 yr son in 1878, born all over Scotland but there are a lot just in the Glasgow area (since I don't know his birth year or place of birth) it's making it hard! I found one that looked like it might be right but had Janet Jackson listed as wife's name...
I've also looked at a ton of MC for John Currie (born between 1838 - 1861 as I have no idea just going on age of only known child being 18 in 1878). I just can't seem to figure this out! ??? ??? :-\
Oddly enough the closet I found was from Dec 1850 with John Currie & Margaret Martin....could it be that she just couldn't read or write and that it got recorded wrong on one of the documents???
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51 census lodging with the MAWHINNYs ...also from Ireland:
DUNLOP Alexander Lodger U M 24 Brickmaking Labourer Ireland
CURRIE John Lodger U M 26 Limestone Mining Labourer Ireland
CURRIE Jacob Lodger U M 22 Limestone Mining Labourer Ireland
Can't see another John Currie with an occupation that is macon/quarrier linked..except a lad from Fife...macon's labourer
Jen
Sorry another two (brothers?) John (18) and James (28) Currie both Quarriers from Ireland ...again lodgers...finally
CURRIE John Lodger M M 34 Stone Mason Renfrewshire - Eaglesham
Maybe something clicks amongst this lot but chances are you've seen all these...
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This is what I have about the family so far...Confirmed
Neil Currie b. 1885 Glasgow son of James Currie abt. 1860 Glasgow (unknown if in or just in near area) & Margaret Sharkey abt. 1860 Glasgow (again area)
Margaret Sharkey abt 1860 daughter of John Sharkey 1824 Scotland - 19 Jan 1901 Glasgow & Margaret Taylor 14 Jun 1830 Glasgow - 20 Jan 1881 (I know a few generations after them.... so am good on that side)
James Currie abt 1860 son of John Currie abt 1830 (could really be any where between 1815- 1844 making him between 18-45 when James was born) Scotland (I'm guessing Glasgow but could just as easily be Edinburgh or Fife. I ran into a few Currie families around there, but the ones in Fife seem to all be fishermen and sailors.
*NOT CONFIRMED* his mother - on MC- Margaret Marr
on BC (attached to post) - Eliza (Elizabeth) Dunlop
I have a MC attached to this post listing the marriage between Margaret Sharkey aged 18 & James Currie also 18 a Mason/ journeyman. Both were living in Glasgow at the time of marriage on 12 April 1878. At the time of the wedding both Margaret's parents (listed above) were both living, James's father John (Mason) is deceased and his mother Margaret Marr is alive.
I have a BC attached to this post that matches the best from all I've seen, 13 Mar 1860 Glasgow, but it has his mother listed as Eliza (Elizabeth) Dunlop and has John Currie listed as an Iron Moulder....
I could see John changing from Iron Moulder to being a Mason in 18 years, as work was hard getting at that time so you did what you could, and they seem a likely switch...I think...but the mum's name...
I've thought maybe Elizabeth died when James was really young and his dad John remarried to Margaret Marr... asked her to be on the MC... didn't know she wasn't his mum, or didn't know his real mum's name...however after going through the Census I see that there was a John & Elizabeth Currie (Dunlop was in all the kids had that in their name) that has them still together after 1881.
The other thing that throws me back to that BC is because later the same couple have a daughter they name Elizabeth Chalmers Currie (22 Jun 1862 Milton, Glasgow). The name Chalmers, comes up a few other times later after the Currie family I'm working on comes over to Canada.... which makes me think that it has to be a family name, a surname before Elizabeth Dunlop... so that make her a match again!
I can't find any census before 1881 (after they marry) with James Currie and his parents John & Margaret Currie but I see the Currie family with Elizabeth in 71' & 61'. Also John aged 27 Ironstone miner in 1851 (19 Hamilton St., Carluke, Lanarkshire).
I can't find any records having to do with a Margaret Marr and a John Currie anywhere in Scotland other than there names listed on the MC of James Currie as his parents....
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Some very strange things are going on here!
There is a marriage in 1864 for a Margaret CURRIE and a John MARR (after death of John?)
Then on the 81 census we have Margaret MARR age 35 along with husband John Marr age 38- a MASON and their children- oldest child is John age 14...all living in Govan. If this is James Mum looks like she had him at 15 or more likely she's lopped a few years off her age....
???
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Hmm... I wouldn't think that would match.....but at this point hey it might! haha
Funny enough...I just found this, on familysearch ...> James Williamson Currie b 15 May 1858 at High Church, Glasgow. Mother Margaret Currie....no father listed...
Now starting to wonder if maybe Margaret never married a man called John Currie, which is why I can't find any record of it from when records began until 2012!!
Either she was born a Currie and made up the Marr surname and the father's info....not like anyone checked in those days...or she was 'with' a man called John Currie but he died before they could marry and before James was born (which is why I can't find a birth match) so she just took the name Currie....again who was going to check.... either way I'm guessing this would have stopped people (the new in-laws) from figuring out that James was fatherless which was a very bad thing in those days...
in which case I should still be able to find James's BR.???...what do you think....
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Hi all,
Yes, jennywren001, I managed to find that the James Currie married to Margaret Sharkie/Sharkey died in 1901 and his DC states only his mother and that she was Margaret Currie subsequently married to John Marr. I note that their marriage took place in 1864 when young James Currie would have been about 4.
Carolineasb
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That's Crazy! So in other words Margaret CURRIE had James before she married, who knows if John was his father or not...I'm guessing more likely not...than since he John MARR was no longer alive, Margaret and James told a little 'white lie' switching the surnames so her's matched his....and pressto changeho... he wasn't illegitimate!
Now going to see if I can find the records to match this...crazy tale! Thank you so much All... can you send me the DC you found Carolineasb??
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Sorry to say that my IT skills are not up to managing to send that to you but it is on SP.
Also, everbody seems to think that illegitimacy is a modern thing, and I've found that it is most definitely not! From the gap between James' birth and Margaret's marriage, I would say that it is unlikely though, of course, still possible that John was James father. I suppose the next place to look would be the 1861 Census.
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Hi All,
I think what I'd do next is check the 71 census to put James and mother together...check his age/place of birth. Then I'd revisit the BCs...armed with a more accurate birth year. I see three where it looks like no father listed for a James Currie born to a Margaret Currie. After that I'd root around and see who was living with whom....
Good luck
Jen
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where are the three located? I'm going to have a look on familysearch right now....don't have a sub at the moment, I wasn't using it enough...and I couldn't figure this mess out! lol
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Thank you Everyone!
As it turns out James Currie's mother was Margaret Currie and he was born with no father in 1858, She than 2 Aug 1864 married a man called John Marr and gave birth to their first child 29 Dec 1864. Margaret has her age listed in 1881 as 35 which means that she was just 14 when she had James... It looks like she told one other lie... on James MC in 1874 he's listed as 18, on his DC in 1901 he's listed as 41....about 2 years out... so I'm guessing that she lied and about his year of birth to make her age when he arrived a bit better.
I can now fill in this branch of the tree....I must admit this is one of the craziest I've run into!! Thank you again all for the help!
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Hello kshaw,
Found this 1901 Census on Ancestry. I think the name is a transcription error and you should be able to check it on SP.
Margaret Cunie 41
Neil Cunie 15
Elizabeth Cunie 12
Mary Cunie 10
John Cunie 8
Robina Cunie 6
William Cunie 4
Walter Cunie 2
Agnes Fraser 16 (Other Relative)
Margaret Green 62
James Saylor 15 (Boarder)
All born Glasgow, Lanarkshire. Address is: Belvidere Ave. Civil Parish: Camlachie, Glasgow.
From the age of the youngest child, Walter, that narrowed James' death down to 1898-1901. The only James Currie death found on SP in the Glasgow area in that time was the 1901 death at Dennistoun already mentioned in a post. James Currie with Marr entered in the 'Other Name' box came up a match. Leave you to check that out on SP.
Good Luck with your search.
Regards, Dod.
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Also, everbody seems to think that illegitimacy is a modern thing, and I've found that it is most definitely not!
Anything but. T C Smout wrote in his A Century of the Scottish People, "[In] the 1850s, the Registrar-General for Scotland published, for the first time, the statistics of illegitimate births. These showed three salient and remarkable features. First, illegitimacy was higher in Scotland than in England and most of Europe. Second, it was generally higher in the countryside than in the towns, which was unusual in a European context. Lastly, it was very much higher in some parts of the countryside than in others. In 1861-5, for example, the proportion of illegitimate births was 16.6 per cent in Banffshire compared to 4.2 per cent in Ross and Cromarty ...."
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Hello ecksdochter
I now have James's DC from SP... thank you, that was the document that finally confirmed that there was no John Currie & Margaret Marr that marriage and had James..... Looks like Margaret did a wee name switch putting her maiden name as her married, and married as maiden name on James's MC. Not sure if this was done to hide that James was born fatherless or was simply a mix up. Seems odd that they would than admit that he was fatherless when he died, if it was a lie.....but the only ones that know that are long gone.
I am now trying to find Miss Margaret Currie with her family in the 1851 census than again in the 1861 .... with her new son James Currie b. 1858 or 1860. That way I can maybe get her parents/ siblings.... maybe her BC and maybe figure out when poor mixed up James was born.
I found a BC that seems to match for James, but it puts his birth in May 1858.... but both other documents put him born in 1860, given her age and the other 'mix ups' she could have lied about his birth year or it was a mistake.... really not sure with this one.
I didn't have a subscription at the moment so I'm trying to figure this out using FS..... not easy.
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Forfar.... I have personally found a lot illegitimate children during my family research. I had two in the 1880's that where marked as illegitimate on there birth records, but where not really. It was just a case of the parents not being married at the time and the father not being 'present' at the time of birth. In the one case the father's name was given as a middle name and the mother's last name than the parents married 4 months later. Sadly he grow up with a different last name to the rest of his siblings and parents, since it was never changed or switched as thie Currie/Marr case. The other one I found, showed that the father had died before they could marry but they had done a hand-fasting.... but that was not accepted I guess as her last name was never changed and there was no mention of him on the BC. I only found out about this because of a family bible which also had the baby christened with the father's last name.
I've also seen a lot of Irish girls that came over to 'in the family way'.....which would have put the numbers up.
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Wow, not looked in for a few days and what a lot of info. Well done everyone!
Next stage to try and find more about mother Margaret Currie may be to view the marriage cert for Margaret Currie to John Marr. I can only see one possible child for them so far:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FQNR-ZHQ
...Margaret has her age listed in 1881 as 35 which means that she was just 14 when she had James
Can't see this entry. Can you post some more details for that year? Can't easily see a death for a Margaret Curr*/Marr either on SP. Marriage cert is probably the first thing to check for further details such as age/parents etc.
Monica
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....Neil Currie b. 1885 Glasgow son of James Currie abt. 1860 Glasgow (unknown if in or just in near area) & Margaret Sharkey abt. 1860 Glasgow (again area)....
This looks like Margaret's birth https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FQWH-8RG not long before the family showed in Liverpool for 1861:
John Sharkie 37 fruit dealer
Margaret Sharkie 32
William Sharkie 9
Margaret Sharkie 3
James Sharkie 1 b. Birkenhead
Sarah Martin 32 house servant
RG 9/2671/16/25
Monica
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I have personally found a lot illegitimate children during my family research. I had two in the 1880's that where marked as illegitimate on there birth records, but where not really. It was just a case of the parents not being married at the time and the father not being 'present' at the time of birth.
From 1855, the rule was that the father's name could only be included on the birth certificate of an illegitimate child if the father accompanied the mother to the registrar's office when she went to register the birth and signed the certificate along with her. So it could happen that the entire parish knew who the father was, but because he did not accompany her, the child was registered in its mother's name.
If the parents married later, the child became legitimate, provided that the parents would have been free to marry at the time of the child's conception.
The idea that a surname was fixed at registration and had to be formally changed isn't right. There are dozens of illegitimate children in the censuses, living with their grandparents, registered in their mothers' names and known by their fathers' names. There was no need for any formal process of change; you can change your name to anything you like provided the change is not made in order to commit fraud.
As for the handfasting, a promise of marriage followed by sexual relations was one of the ways of contacting a legal marriage. See http://www.gla.ac.uk/schools/socialpolitical/research/economicsocialhistory/historymedicine/scottishwayofbirthanddeath/marriage/ So in legal terms, if there were witnesses to the handfasting, and a child was subsequently born, the marriage was just as valid as it would have been if there had been a ceremony performed by a minister.
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....daughter of John Sharkey 1824 Scotland - 19 Jan 1901 Glasgow & Margaret Taylor 14 Jun 1830 Glasgow - 20 Jan 1881...
Potentially John Sharkey was born in Ireland? http://boards.ancestry.com/thread.aspx?mv=flat&m=9445&p=localities.britisles.ireland.don.general
I would imagine this information has come from his 1855 Marriage Cert to Margaret Taylor https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XTY4-P98 If you haven't see this already, the first year of official registration in Scotlland and for one year only, registrations ran over two pages of the registers. For marriages, it should include date and place of bride and groom's births too.
I am sure, from what you say, that you also have details of John's parents - Michael and Margaret (Hume)and their deaths in Scotland which has let you work further back.
Monica
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Hello again kshaw,
The 1901 Census I posted for Margaret Cunie (might be Currie) gives Margaret's occupation as Fruit Dealer. Son Neil is a Coal Dealer. (Noticed Monica's post about Margaret Sharkie's father being a fruit dealer)
Regards, Dod.
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Well done Dod on that 1901 entry. Certainly looks like you found them in 1901. From what I have seen, Margaret Sharkey Currie's brother James b. 1860 went off to Ontario Canada around those years. May have helped when some Currie children went there in the early 1900s.
I think the fruit dealing went up the generations. John Sharkey's father, Michael, also showed as a fruit merchant I think in 1861.
Monica
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Hi Everyone,
Should have posted this in full a few posts back...'A' Margaret Marr in 1881 in Govan - note birth place of first three...wonder if this can still be tied in with the 1864 marriage...means Margaret moved through to Edinbugh then back to Glasgow...or was she John's second wife and that 1864 marriage is not them....too bad that wee boy Matthew is not a bit older then at least she could be married by James' wedding date! I don't like the 10 year gap between Sarah and Matthew if you know what I mean....
Dwelling: 46 Calder St
John MARR Head Married 38 M Mason Edinburgh, Edinburgh, Scotland
John MARR Son N/A 14 M Message Boy Bakers Edinburgh, Edinburgh, Scotland
Sarah MARR Daughter N/A 11 F Scholar Edinburgh, Edinburgh, Scotland
Margaret MARR Wife Married 35 F Masons Wife Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Matthew MARR Son N/A 1 M Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Jen
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Hi Jen :)
Did see this one earlier. Think the Margaret, wife of a John Marr you showed there, was this John Marr's second wife. The daughter Sarah born in Edinburgh, I think this might be her birth there https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FQ8J-838 The son John likely here https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FQF2-SF4
I think now to get any further back we need the info from that 1864 marriage. Something likely happened (?) given only one child showing from this marriage.
Monica
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There is a marriage for Walter Currie in Port Arthur, Thunder Bay, Ontario b 1898 to Annie Wright Gordon 11 Feb 1916. His parents are transcribed as James Currie and Margaret Shardey. Cannot see him in the 1911 Canada Census.
Elizabeth Currie married Calvin Williamson in Toronto 10 Jun 1907 at 22. Parents are James Currie and Margaret Sharkey.
Mary Currie married Peter Griffin in Toronto 27 nov 1912 at age 22. Parents James Currie and Margaret Sharkey.
Robina Wilson Currie married James Charles Hill 18 June 1915 Toronto at 21. Parents named as James Currie and Margaret Sharkey.
All above on family search. I have not located them on passenger lists to see who went to Canada.
William
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Hi Monica :),
It was very late last night when I found the census and then the 1864 marriage - went to bed before a proper follow through! That Sarah birth looks good - puts that Minx Margaret adrift though..I can see only one other Margaret Marr on the 1881 census living Glasgow way - 35 unmarried and living with her mother and siblings at 5 Buckingham Terrace Govan - down as a shop woman baker. I was a bit disappointed the 34 year old John Currie Mason on the 51 census didn't pan out - the folks he was living a couple of doors from is the funniest census entry I've ever seen! ;D
You are so aware looking at the Glasgow census how everyone was living on top of each other working in such a variety of enterprises- so different from my Kincardineshire folks where if I find someone listed as a mole catcher instead of a farm servant I get excited.
Jen
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There is a marriage for John Marr and Rebecca Ramage in 1862 in Edinburgh.
The 1871 Census has Rebecca recorded as a masons wife aged 27 at 2 Drummond Street with children John 4, Agnes 1 and Sarah 2.Also in the household is her father William Ramage 65 a mason's lab. Husband John does not appear in the transcription.
William
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John Marr in 1871 is recorded as a visitor in the home of Marion Donaldson in Glasgow.
In 1861 the best fit giving a birth year of 1842 has him in Edinburgh a mason with parents John and Sarah.
1851 a possibility has him with an aunt Agness Marr in Grassmarket Edinburgh.
Cannot see anything for 1891 but there may be transcription issues!
William
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Hi William,
1861 - can you see anything for Margaret Currie with James age about 1? Or ditto 71 with him around 11? I think we need to get them together on a census return so we can confirm (ish) age/place of birth.
Jen
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Jen, I have gone crossed eyed looking this morning and zilch :-\ Under Curr* or Marr. This is from the transcripts. The original images on SP may differ.
Monica
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Cannot see James at all 1861. I even resorted to going through all the Jas. and James! It is a puzzle. Tried the search on FindMyPast and that didn't work either. Running out of ideas. I think that Margaret Curries marriage and death cert may be the way to go.
William
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Marriage at least will help to confirm her parents, from that hopefully place of birth/year. The problem with a death is that we haven't been able to spot one so far for a Margaret with Marr & Currie :-\
Without the info from James' death cert found previously, we would be more lost that we are now in respect of his early years!
Monica
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There is a birth 29 Dec 1864 Glasgow High Church of an Ezekial Marr son of John Marr and Margaret Currie.
There is a James Currie b Glasgow in Port Glasgow listed as a boarder grandson. Head of household is JohnSand 60. Also in the household are Mary Sand, his wife. Ezekial Currie 55, an iron ship plater b Glasgow and his wife Janet 50 b Glasgow.
In the 1881 census there is an Ezekial Currie aged 15 living with Margaret Currie age 50 b Ireland living in Glasgow as boarders . She is a general dealer.
Tracking Ezekial the elder was hard due to the transcriptions! in 1871 he is Emiall Cunie b 1804 living in High Church Glasgow but b Ireland. In 1851 there is an entry for cziekial Currie b Ireland in Port Glasgow. Free cen shows he was married.
It was the first name Ezekial which caught my eye.
William
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Hi William,
this was the wee boy Monica provided the link to way back in this rather complicated post..can I just recap this bit of the conundrum...as I'm getting well confused :)
James Currie gets married in 1878 age 18 and gives his parents as John Currie (deceased) and Margaret Marr
There appears to be no evidence of a John Currie/Margaret Marr connection/link.
There are multiple James Curries' born in and around Glasgow around the 1860s - three showing with Margaret Currie - mother -no father (LDS)
A Margaret Currie marries a John Marr in 1864
An Ezekial Marr is born in Dec of 1864 to a couple with names as above.
1881 an Ezekial Currie (correct age) and a Margaret Currie age 50 - together (no John)
1881 John Marr (mason) and his 2nd wife Margaret age 35 (wonder when/ if they wed) red herring?
1871 or 61? A James Currie with his Grandfather Ezekial Currie age 55 (hope it's 61 as ten years later his potential daughter is showing as 50 ;).
My head is truly nippin...
Jen
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In the 1881 census there is an Ezekial Currie aged 15 living with Margaret Currie age 50 b Ireland living in Glasgow as boarders . She is a general dealer.
Think you might be a hero here William....see where you are going with this and also:
There is a James Currie b Glasgow in Port Glasgow listed as a boarder grandson. Head of household is JohnSand 60. Also in the household are Mary Sand, his wife. Ezekial Currie 55, an iron ship plater b Glasgow and his wife Janet 50 b Glasgow.
What year is this for? 1861 or 1871? Will go and have a look.
A point to remember (thinking of Scottish naming pattern and the way people in Scotland went about naming and illegitimate births etc) is that the 1858 birth that has been found for a James with a mother Margaret Currie also includes the name middle name of Williamson https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/VQQZ-3HX Maybe James Williamson was the name of the reputed father. Common to name son after a reputed father following an illegitimate birth.
Maybe...if Margaret Currie then then went on to marry (we think John Marr in 1864) she could well have named her son after her father...which then may well fit with what you are finding William...
Monica
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Sorry I omitted to say that the record of Ezekial Currie with James Currie was in the 1861 census in Port Glasgow. I wondered if this was the census record of the James Currie we have been looking for. In this census Ezekials birth was said to be in Glasgow but the two other probable/ possible census entries I have for him give his place of birth as Ireland.
My curiosity has got the better of me! I have downloaded the marriage of John Marr and Margaret Currie.
The details are as follows John Marr mason bachelor 33 mason bachelor parents John Marr mason deceased and Janet Marr ms Burns deceased. Margaret Currie 28 millworker spinster parents Ezekial Currie boat builder and Jane Currie ms looks like Keerns . Address of both 48 High Street Glasgow. Witnesses Rob McGowan and David Richmond. Marriage 2 Aug 1864 at 6 Grafton Place.
Now need to try to work out what this all means!
William
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Apologies, a bit late but I've just sent a PM to Kshaw with the DC of James Currie and the MC of his Mother and John Marr transcribed as I was unsure about copyright issues :(
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Just to add that if Margaret Currie was indeed born in Ireland there is in the 1861 census a Margaret Currie of about the correct age b 1835 listed as a prisoner in North Prison, Glasgow! Possible explanation as to why James Currie was with grandparents?
William
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I think you are spot on there with your trail William ;)
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A possibility in 1851 for Margaret Currie has a Margaret Curry b Ireland 1834 a lodger in Glasgow and working as a flax spinner.
How this all ties in with the John Marr/ Margaret Marr 1881 census I have yet to get my head round!
William
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Jumping back to 1841 from all your info, William:
Ezekiel Currie 36 Boilermaker Journeyman b. Ireland
Jane Currie 36 b Ireland
Margt Currie 14 Piecer In Cotton Mill b. lanarkshire
James Currie 12 b. lanarkshire
Elizabeth Currie 5 b. lanarkshire
Address: 93 High Street, Glasgow
Birth year here for Margaret would be circa 1827? This is from FreeCen. A/try have the family as Curra.
Monica
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Ages all over the place as sometimes happens...
This might be Ezekial Snr in 1851 in Renfrewshire (fits with the ref in daughter Margaret's MC and mention of him being a boat builder):
James Higgins 53
Isabella Higgins 55
George Higgins 16
John Higgins 18
Cziekial Currie 34 Iron Shipbuilder lodger b. Ireland
Address: King Street, Post Glasgow Renfrewshire
This is from transcript so no further details such as marital status etc. Would think this is the right entry and Jane wife is elsewhere given we have them together with young James Currie by 1861 in Port Glasgow?
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Gosh Monica the ages are all over the place!
That's the entry I found for Ezeekial - freecen have transcribed his first name as Crykial! Again on freecen looking for Margaret Currie there are a number of possibles in 1851. It doesn't help that the place of birth is given as Ireland or Lanarkshire at different times and the surname Currie seems to be easy to mistranscribe.
William
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Regardless on how transcribed on the transcripts etc...I do think you have the family of Margaret Currie ;)
Regarding young James b. 1858, you have found him in 1861 earlier with his maternal grandparents in Port Glasgow. Think we are missing still 1871 (?, post long now!) for him and then we link up to him following his marriage to Margaret Sharkey in 1878 and subsequent censuses for 1881/91 up to his death.
Monica
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Just to add that if Margaret Currie was indeed born in Ireland there is in the 1861 census a Margaret Currie of about the correct age b 1835 listed as a prisoner in North Prison, Glasgow! Possible explanation as to why James Currie was with grandparents?
William
Just to add that there is a likelyhood she was back in prison again for 1871:
Margaret Currie 36 domestic servant, b. Ireland
Address: General Prison For Scotland, Edinburgh Road - Perth
From NAS www.nas.gov.uk/onlineCatalogue/ a possible time line:
1852: Margaret Currie, Age: 16, Address: Sturrock Street, Anderston, Glasgow, Origin: Native of Glasgow - crime of theft. Verdict: Guilty, Sentence: Imprisonment - 9 months.
1854: Margaret Currie, Age: 19, Address: New Wynd, Glasgow, as lodger, Origin: Native of Ireland - crime of theft and previous conviction. Guilty in terms of own confession, Sentence: Penal servitude - 4 years.
1866: Margaret Currie, cohabits with Patrick McHendry, Age: 21, no occupation, Address: 148 Trongate, Glasgow, Origin: Native of Ireland - crime of theft and previous conviction. Verdict: Not proven.
1870: Margaret Currie, Age: 36, lodging house keeper, Address: Drygate, Glasgow, Origin: Native of Ireland - crime of theft and previous conviction. Verdict: Guilty, Sentence: Penal servitude - 7 years.
Is this Margaret Currie, mother of James...
Monica
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Well Ezekial Marr (transcribed as Marrs) is in the Glasgow poor house in 1871. There is a snippet in the Glasgow Herald (newspaper archive) from 1870 about Margaret Currie and previous convictions! Would need to see full article, though, to see if it could be her.
James Currie is hard to pin down. There is a James b 1860 Glasgow listed as a boarder in Laurencekirk. A John Currie 54 b Belfast and a hawker is also in the household. It does not say what the relationship is.
William
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I saw the James with a John Currie, Hawker, in 1871, but think there could well be a corresponding birth for this James in 1859 (family search).
What was the date for the Glasgow Herald? We should be able to view it from here http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=GGgVawPscysC hopefully.
Monica
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Well Ezekial Marr (transcribed as Marrs) is in the Glasgow poor house in 1871.
May be hard for kshaw to follow up, subject to location etc, but there may be poor relief application/notes for Ezekial Marr with background for these years?
Monica
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Article in the herald 14-12-1870 in the section Winter circuit court. It might just be a list.
Agree regarding the poor relief application.
William
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Well Ezekial Marr (transcribed as Marrs) is in the Glasgow poor house in 1871.
How about James also being there for 1871.
James Marrs, 10, inmate b. Glasgow at City Parish Poorhouse, 322 Parliamentary Road Glasgow.
Monica
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Article in the herald 14-12-1870 in the section Winter circuit court. It might just be a list.
It is, as you say, just a mention/one liner. Matching what shows at the NAS.
Monica
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The James Marrs in the 1871 census makes sense to me! Good find. I had looked for James Marr but didn't think of adding the s.
William
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Complex set up here for sure. More than normal :-\
Monica
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Hello kshaw,
Thanks to Millmoor's post with wedding dates in Canada it narrowed the search for Passenger Lists. Little bit of a mystery here too.
Found on Ancestry: UK, Outward Passenger Lists, 1890-1960.
Mary Currie age 11, Robina Currie 7, Willie Currie 3 & Walter Currie age 2, booked aboard 'Pomeranian', Allan Line. Departing Glasgow bound for Quebec, Canada, 12th Sept,1903. Except their names had been scored out.
Then this listing: Mary Currie age 11, Robina Currie 7, Willie Currie 3 & Walter Currie age 2 aboard 'Corinthian', Allan Line. Departing Glasgow bound for Quebec, Canada, 19th Sept,1903.
Their names had been added in different ink after the passengers had been totalled so did they "miss the boat" the week before? There doesn't appear to be an adult with them on either booking. A huge undertaking for an 11yr old being in charge of 2 toddlers & a 7yr old. This was a 32 day journey so would have arrived in Canada about 21st Oct. Hope there was someone to meet them if they were a week late arriving!
Please note, John born abt 1893 is not with them. Elizabeth married in Canada so will have a look for her next.
Regards, Dod.
PS. There is a Mrs Currie with a young family aboard 'Corinthian but I don't think she's your Margaret.
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Found Margaret Currie's death!
It is registered under the name Margaret Currie other name Mars. She died 23 Nov 1885 at the age of 56. She is the widow of John Mars mason journeyman. She died at 43 Duke Street Glasgow. Parents are named as Ezekial Currie boilermaker journeyman(deceased) and Jane Currie ms Hume (again difficult to be sure could be Hurne), bronchitis and debility! ... and the clincher (I hope!) the informant is James Currie son 18 Claythorne Street. If the address on any of James's children born in the mid 1880's is 18 Claythorne Street that would be the final proof.
William
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Good find Dod! You can access the passenger list using the detail given about the ship and date of departure etc on the National Archives of Canada site The entry shows that they were bound for Toronto.
The family immediately above them on the manifest is that of a Mrs James Currie also from Glasgow aged 25 and a housewife and also bound for Toronto with children Margt. 7, Mary 4, Gilian ?4, Nellie 3, Agnes inf. and James inf. Don't know if the families being together on manifest of significance.
William
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Further to the above the 1901 census suggests that the Mrs James Currie is Julia Currie married to James N Currie ( a "hint" suggests the N is for Neil) 22 a stone cutter b Glasgow with children Maggie 4, Mary 3, Julia 2 (it will be Julia on the manifest) and Ellen 9mo. I think that James could be the eldest son of James Currie and Margaret Sharkey. Address 282 Great Eastern Road, Camlachie.
William
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There is a birth in Toronto of a John Currie to James N Currie and Julia Hallie 23 Sep 1904.
William
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Hello kshaw & Millmoor,
I found this on Ancestry, UK Outward Passenger Lists, 1890-1960.
Mrs. Margt Currie, Ho/wife age 43. Eliz. age 11? John age 9. James age 24 Occupation: Mason.
Sailing aboard 'Corinthian'. Departure: 30th May,1903 from Glasgow bound for Quebec, Canada. Final destination Toronto.
This all matches the Currie family except Elizabeth's age. She would be abt 14 not 11 in 1903.
I wondered if Margaret along with oldest son James, daughter Elizabeth & son John had gone out to Canada to find work, accommodation etc. with the rest of the family following later.
Like Millmoor I looked for son James on 1901 Census & came up with the same one. James N Currie 22 Stone Cutter. Julia 23. Maggie 4. Mary 3. Julia 2. Ellen 9Mo. at 282 Great Easter Rd, Camlachie Parish.
So Back to the other Currie family aboard 'Corinthian' 19th Sept,1903.
Mrs Currie, Howife Adult. Margt age 7. Mary 4. Julian? (Female) 4. Nellie 3. Agnes & James both 11 Months. A close enough match to be the same family do you think?
SP have a James Neil Currie/Julia Hilley marriage 1896 at Blackfriars, Glasgow. If this James is James Currie & Margaret Sharkey's son it would tie all of these passenger lists & families together.
I think Margaret's younger children travelled to Canada Sept,1903 aboard 'Corinthian' (Ticket Nos: 30-33) along with brother James' wife, Mrs Currie & their family. (Ticket Nos: 20-26) while Margaret, Elizabeth, John & James (Ticket Nos: 115-118) went ahead of them in May 1903 also aboard 'Corinthian'. Does that just leave daughter Margaret & son Neil at home? (Son Robert Wilson Currie birth & death 1891)
A lot of information to take in. Hope it's the right information!!
Regards, Dod.
PS. James Neil Currie born 1879, Blackfriars, Glasgow.
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I am sure you are right, Dod. Again using the information you have provided regarding the ships name, date of departure etc. you can access the ships manifest on the Canadian Archives site. This confirms that they are bound for Toronto and are from Lanarkshire.
There are also a number of entries in the Ontario records on family search showing the marriages of children of the children of James Neil Currie and Julia Hilley. They are easy to find in the 1911 census on Family Search but on other sites I cannot find them to see the image.
William
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WOW! :o :o :o! I went away for a night and look what you LOVELY people have found for me!!! Thank you sooooooooo much!
I also found the BC for Ezekiel Marr 29 Dec 1864 High Church, Glasgow son to Margaret Currie & John Marr who were married 2 Aug 1864 Central District, Lanark.
The BC I had been looking at (of the 3 James with no father) was - James Williamson Currie 15 May 1858 High Church, Glasgow..... I'm guessing that this must be the right one since Ezekiel was also High Church???
Also with the name being that of her father's.... I can't find any other children an other marriage for either, but I'll keep looking..... this really is the most messed up search that I've ever done, in regards to the fact that Margaret keeps changing her name, age, and place of birth all over the place! It really looks like she went back to Currie after John Marr died, so I'm thinking that her death will be under the name Currie.
I'm going to dig into the records that you all pointed me too later tonight after my wee ones are in bed, but thought I should get back to you with a few other things that have come up in regards to James Currie & Margaret Sharkey... I don't have a place of date of death for her. They had 6 children that I've found....
James 1879 Glasgow
Margaret Taylor 1881 Blackfriars, Glasgow
Neil 1885 Glasgow
Lizzie 1889 Glasgow
Mary 1890 Glasgow
Robert W 1891 Calton, Glasgow
Of them I know that Neil, his wife (Mary Ann Kenny 1886 Glasgow) and their two children went to Canada (Port Arthur, Thunder Bay, Ontario) in 1909 and I found their passenger list. They then went on to have 5 more children there.
The James Currie that was found in Toronto was the eldest son, I believe that he was a well known Doctor. He is well know in that area for having something to do with the children's hospital there, but I'm not sure what..... my brother-in-law who I'm doing this for told me but I've forgotten at the moment.
It's possible that theft and getting into trouble runs in the family.... I found a Neil Currie aged 15 born abt. 1886 Glasgow. At The Industrial School Boys, Empress Industrial School Ship. A boy under detention (Prisoner) to: Walter Rose 33 officer, Boatswain Sender. In the 1901 Census in Gareloch, Dumbartonshire.
I've yet to find out what he did or why he was there, but it's seems that if he was in trouble that he wasn't ever again (unlike his grandmother, it seems!) as the next census has him in Canada. I also have him having been in Canada before 1909, in 1907 with brother Robert.
Thank you all again!! I'll post again later tonight after I have a better look at all the post (pages 4-8) and a better look at what you'll all found for me.
Katherine
P.S. I'm in Scotland so I should be able to get a look at the old newspapers.... I think ::)
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Hi Katherine
Great that you are in Scotland. Will make it easier for you to follow up on some of the material that is not available online. A visit to Edinburgh for example to the NRS would let you sight the actual trial papers etc for Margaret Currie. A visit to Glasgow and the Mitchell Library would let you view/search for poor relief applications for example for James and half brother Ezekiel Marr who showed at the poor house in 1871. Also young Neil may have some notes to follow up on.
With Margaret and the issue of use of surnames, remember in Scotland women never 'lost' their maiden names after marriage. This is one of the reasons you can search for deaths, for example, with both surnames or find grave inscriptions for married women with their maiden name.
Lots there to follow up on....
Monica
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There is a death for a Margaret Currie in Thunder Bay 27 Oct 1915 b 1859. on family search. If there is an image on ac*y it might indicate if it is the correct Margaret. I cannot find her on the 1911 Canada census or her children who married later. She may, of course, have remarried. The marriage images for her children who married after 1911 might shed further light.
To see actual census image for Neil Currie on the 1911 Canada census he has been transcribed as Carrie. James Currie and family have been transcribed as Cunn. This is on the Canadian Archives site. You can see the images for free!
William
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Thank you both!
William - I thought I had the 1911 Can Census, but it turns out it was the 1921!! I'm fairly certain that she did go over to Canada with one of her children, but wasn't sure....thank you for finding that. My sister and brother-in-law's family are all (more or less) in Thunder Bay still, so it should be easy for them to find her grave with the other Currie family that past away around the same time. Or by walking through and just looking.... with out having to pay for her DC.
still looking through all the other info that you guys gave me!!! I'm so thankful.... this is just such an odd one :o
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There are no parents' details or husband's name for Margaret Currie's death on 27 Oct 1915. She is down as a housekeeper, widowed and born in Scotland. The informant was a A Morriss.
Margaret died from the effect of diabetes. Her place of burial shows as Port Arthur, Ontario.
Monica
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Ages all over the place as sometimes happens...
This might be Ezekial Snr in 1851 in Renfrewshire (fits with the ref in daughter Margaret's MC and mention of him being a boat builder):
James Higgins 53
Isabella Higgins 55
George Higgins 16
John Higgins 18
Cziekial Currie 34 Iron Shipbuilder lodger b. Ireland
Address: King Street, Post Glasgow Renfrewshire
This is from transcript so no further details such as marital status etc. Would think this is the right entry and Jane wife is elsewhere given we have them together with young James Currie by 1861 in Port Glasgow?
Oddly enough while I was looking for John CURRIE & margaret MARR, I found a MC for a John CURRIE 23 (can't make out his job) and an Elizabeth HIGGINS 20 both of Bridgeton, Glasgow (looks like) 5 July 1856.... but his father is Robert not Eziekial.
Oh I just found a 1841 Scot Census for an Margt Currie 8 (abt 1833) Ireland living in Lanark.... no other info given > from family search. UPDATE> It's HER!!! (I think ::)) there is a Ezekiel Currie 36 (abt 1805) Ireland and a Jane Currie 36 Ireland, on the same GS Film # at the same place.
Also.... noticed that it looks like if Margaret was done for theft in 1854 and away for 4 years.....than she came out 'with child' in 1858, if James was born in May!!! Maybe I can look for guards with the surname Williamson???
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Oh I just found a 1841 Scot Census for an Margt Currie 8 (abt 1833) Ireland living in Lanark.... no other info given > from family search. UPDATE> It's HER!!! (I think ::)) there is a Ezekiel Currie 36 (abt 1805) Ireland and a Jane Currie 36 Ireland, on the same GS Film # at the same place.
According to FreeCEN the household to 90 High Street, Glasgow College (ED2, Page 10) comprises James, 40, small pawn broker; Mary, 47; Marget, 8; Mary Ann, 1; Bridget McGlashan, 15. All except Mary Ann born in Ireland.
Ezekiel is not in the same place. He is in a household at 93 High Street, Glasgow (ED6, Page 25) with Jane, 36; Margt, 14, piecer in cotton mill; James, 12, boilermaker apprentice; Elizabeth, 5. Ezekiel and Jane born in Ireland, the others in Lanarkshire.
You'd need to study the enumeration district (ED) boundaries to be 100% certain that it is the same High Street - they are in different EDs. However it's certainly not the same household, or even the same tenement.
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hmmm.... darn....
I think I've run into this Margaret Currie before
Ezekiel is not in the same place. He is in a household at 93 High Street, Glasgow (ED6, Page 25) with Jane, 36; Margt, 14, piecer in cotton mill; James, 12, boilermaker apprentice; Elizabeth, 5. Ezekiel and Jane born in Ireland, the others in Lanarkshire.
I remember seeing 'piecer in cotton mill' attached to the Currie family... Thank you for looking at that for me. I think I'm going to have to sub again soon, cause I don't think I'm able to get enough using just the FS and guessing on SP (wasting money)! :-\
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Hello kshaw & co,
Couldn't believe any father would leave their son in the poor house, even if not with the mother, so decided to do a bit of ferreting around. Checked Glasgow deaths between 1864 marriage & 1871 Census. This one was the right age for John & Bingo! John Marr (Mason) age 39 died 5th May,1870 at Partick, Lanarkshire. Son of John Marr (Mason) & Jane Marr ms Burns. John is married but wife's name not given. Parent's names match MC so I'm sure this is the right John Marr.
I hope that helps tidy a little area of your tree. Your head is probably spinning with all this info.
Regards, Dod.
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Thank you Dod! I was thinking the same thing, but had figured that John and Margaret must not have had a very good household.... with her always in trouble! Plus she was living with another man in 1870 when she was sent away for 7 years!!
Yes my head is spinning a bit, I went from thinking I'd not ever be able to understand the info given on James's MC (inregards to his parents), but now thanks to everyone, in just three days......I know so much!! Still combing through everything and laying in out, seeing were things connected and what's still missing.
I'll have to get copies of the court/ criminal records for Margaret.... see what things she was stealing! From what it looks like, she was never alone when she did get caught....it's all very interesting. I'll update you all when ever I get that bit sorted. For now I'm still sorting out the last 6 pages....
regards
Katherine
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OK I think I have now sorted through everything!
I have now found an Elizabeth Marrs (24) living with her mother Jane Currie (45) and Mary Currie (19) at 15 Nicholas St., Glasgow St. Paul on the 1861 Scots Census.
Oddly I found her while looking for the two siblings listed for Margaret Currie on the 1841 Scots Census.... They are the only names listed on the trans on Ancestry, but looking at what they have filled in, it couldn't have been transcribed very well.
No idea if it's the right family, mother age and birth place isn't a match, just thought that it was funny with that last names...
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Not a match, this Elizabeth Currie married a Hugh Mars.... on a side note Hugh Mars was a Riddle Maker (Vagrant).... never seen that one before. Any ideas what he would have done?
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Hugh Mars was a Riddle Maker (Vagrant).... never seen that one before. Any ideas what he would have done?
Made riddles? As in implements used by gardeners for sieving soil to get rid of stones, roots etc. I have one in the nether regions of my garage.
A vagrant was a person of no fixed abode.
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I have been searching for the parents of James Neil Currie, as well as trying to find out what became of him. He was my great grandfather. He was born in March 1878, and he married Julia Hilley who was born Nov 20, 1877. Julia came to Canada on the Corinthian in Sept 1903, along with her children Margaret, Mary, Julia, Ellen (Nellie), Agnes, and James. James Neil Currie arrived in Canada a couple of months before his wife. They settled in Toronto and had several more children: John (Jack), George, Francis, Walter, and Robina (Ruby). There were two children who died as infants: Elizabeth and Thomas. There was also a baby named Pearl who was killed under tragic circumstances at the age of 1 1/2. I know that James Neil Currie served time in prison, as did his son James. James Neil has lied numerous times in an attempt to avoid detection, at one point using the last name "Neis." I'm also trying to find out what happened to James Neil Currie. The last I can find of him was a record of a border crossing to the USA in 1946. My dad said that he died there, but I can't confirm it. Julia Hilley Currie passed away on June 8, 1947.
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Have you tried www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk ? If not, you haven't really started looking properly yet ;)
Scotland's People (SP) is a pay-per-view site, but it is the only source of original information about births, marriages and deaths in Scotland at that time, and the only place where you can get original images of the available census records.
According to the index there, there are four births of James Neil Curries between 1855 and 2012; one of these is in 1879 (not 1878). It's quite common for people's ages to be wrong by a year or so.
James Neil Currie and Julia Hilley were married in Scotland in 1896.
Both the birth certificate and the marriage certificate should tell you the names of both of Neil's parents, including his mother's maiden surname.
You should also be able to find the 1901 census record of James and Julia and their children.
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.....Like Millmoor I looked for son James on 1901 Census & came up with the same one. James N Currie 22 Stone Cutter. Julia 23. Maggie 4. Mary 3. Julia 2. Ellen 9Mo. at 282 Great Easter Rd, Camlachie Parish.
So Back to the other Currie family aboard 'Corinthian' 19th Sept,1903.
Mrs Currie, Howife Adult. Margt age 7. Mary 4. Julian? (Female) 4. Nellie 3. Agnes & James both 11 Months. A close enough match to be the same family do you think?
SP have a James Neil Currie/Julia Hilley marriage 1896 at Blackfriars, Glasgow. If this James is James Currie & Margaret Sharkey's son it would tie all of these passenger lists & families together.
I think Margaret's younger children travelled to Canada Sept,1903 aboard 'Corinthian' (Ticket Nos: 30-33) along with brother James' wife, Mrs Currie & their family. (Ticket Nos: 20-26) while Margaret, Elizabeth, John & James (Ticket Nos: 115-118) went ahead of them in May 1903 also aboard 'Corinthian'. Does that just leave daughter Margaret & son Neil at home? (Son Robert Wilson Currie birth & death 1891)
A lot of information to take in. Hope it's the right information!!
Regards, Dod.
PS. James Neil Currie born 1879, Blackfriars, Glasgow.
Hi iggie23
Welcome to RootsChat :)
As you can see from the snippet above from this thread, there is a little info already on your family to add hopefully to what you have. As Forfarian has mentioned anyone researching into the history of this family would need to double check the details containted on that likely 1896 marriage for James and Julia that has been mentioned.
Monica
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Hi
I downloaded the marriage some time ago.
Here are the details from the marriage 10 Dec 1896 at St Vincents Chapel Duke Street Glasgow James Neil Currie mason journeyman bachelor age 17 43 Duke Street parents confirmed as James Currie mason journeyman and Margaret Currie ms Sharkey to Julia Hilley marine store worker 18 43 Duke Street parents John Hilley masons labourer and Ellen Hilley formerly Graham ms McKinley. Witnesses James Sharkey and Maggie Currie.
Hopefully the rest of the thread will help with your search
William
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Hello iggie23,
Using information from 1901 Scotland Census the only James Neil Currie birth I found in Glasgow between 1875 & 1880 was same as Millmoor posted. James Neil Currie born 1879 at Blackfriars, Glasgow, Lanarkshire. (http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk)
This is the 1901 Scotland Census transcription from Ancestry.co.uk.
Margaret Cunie Head 41 Fruit Dealer Belvidere Avenue Cottage, Camlachie, Glasgow.
Neil Cunie Son 15 Coal Dealer.
Elizabeth Cunie Dau 12 Scholar.
Mary Cunie Dau 10 Scholar.
John Cunie Son 8 Scholar.
Robina Cunie Dau 6 Scholar.
William Cunie Son 4 -
Walter Cunie Son 2 -
Agnes Fraser Other Relative 16. (Also on 1891 Census)
All born Glasgow, Lanarkshire, Scotland.
Surname 'Cunie' is an Ancestry transcription error so if you choose to view the actual Census Return on Scotlands People, use the surname Currie.
There's a lot of information in these postings so good luck with sorting it all out & with your search.
Regards, Dod.
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This has been such a great post with everyone's support and contributions ;) Really enjoyed seeing it unfold.
The hard part, as I see it now, will be determining what happened to James Neil Currie from his entry into the US in the late 1940s :-\ By the sounds of it, looks like contact was lost then.
Maybe our US (or Canadian in case he went back) Rootschatters could help further with ideas, if a separate post was made there.
Monica
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Hello iggie23,
Sorry, I posted wrong 1901 Scotland Census. The one I posted was James Neil Currie's mother Margaret & his younger siblings. This is the one I meant to post & is a transcription from Ancestry.co.uk
James N Currie Head 22 Stone Cutter. 282 Great Eastern Road, Camlachie, Glasgow.
Julia Currie Wife 23
Maggie Currie Dau 4
Mary Currie Dau 3
Julia Currie Dau 2
Ellen Currie Dau 9 months.
All born Glasgow, Lanarkshire, Scotland. This Census is also on Scotlands People. Search is free but you will need Credits to view. (http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk)
Regards, Dod.
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Hello kshaw, iggie23 etc.
Found this 1911 Canadian Census when looking for Walter Currie. Thought he would be young enough to be still living with his mother. Could this be Margaret?
Oliver Township, Thunder Bay, Ontario Province. Page 8.
Name. Relation. Age. Occupation. Birth. Immigrated. Race.
Thomas Sulivan. Head, 56 Section Foreman, USA, 1900. Irish.
Married. Railway. March, 1861.
Margaret Sulivan. Wife, 52 - Scotland, 1903. Scotch.
Married. June, 1859.
Walter Currie. Son. 12 - Scotland, 1903. Scotch.
May? 1899.
http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/1911/pdf/e002022238.pdf
Regards, Dod.
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Thanks to everyone for all the help. I'm researching from Canada using ancestry.ca, family search, and the resources of my local library. James Neil Currie, his wife Julia Hilley Currie, and their children lived in York (Toronto) Ontario. The family home was on Balliol Street, and their youngest daughter Ruby (who never married) lived there until her death in 1997. James was always deserting the family for extended periods of time. He spent a lot of time across the border in the Buffalo/Niagara area of New York state. The 1921 Canada census is now available and it was difficult to track the family down. Apparently they were trying not to be found. James lied about the family name and their last name is given as Neis. They had left their family home on Balliol Street and they were living at 278 George Street. James Neis is listed as head of the house, and his wife Julia was listed along with their children Mary, John, George, Frances, Walter, Robina (Ruby), and Pearl. The way I found them was by searching for their married daughter Julia Saunders. Julia Saunders was back living with her parents and she had her two children with her. I haven't been able to find out what happened to Julia's husband Cecil Saunders. At the time of the 1921 census, their son James was an inmate at the Toronto Industrial Farm for stealing cars, and his home address was given as 278 George Street. On September 28, 1922, the family made headlines in all the Toronto newspapers. The youngest child Pearl was murdered in the family home on Balliol Street. Julia Hilley Currie was charged with murder. A couple of days after her arrest, she was transferred to a mental health facility. She was kept there until April, 1925. She went on trial in May, 1925 and she was found not guilty by reason of temporary insanity. The judge called this one of the most sordid, tragic cases in Toronto history. Julia's husband James Neil Currie was charged with incest and was sentenced to two years in jail plus lashes. The doctors at the mental health facility said that the shock of finding out about about what James had done had pushed her over the edge, and she had no recollection of the murder. The Toronto Star newspaper has extensive coverage of the case. The story can be found on the front page of the newspaper on September 28, 1922 (evening edition). I had heard about what had happened years ago, but it was still a shock to see the actual newspaper coverage. I'm still trying to find out what happened to James. He crossed the border into the United States in 1946, and then disappeared. I'm also trying to find out why he used an assumed name on the 1921 Canada census. As well as lying about his last name, he lied about the year he immigrated (he said it was in 1904 instead of 1903) and he said that his parents were both born in Ireland. Obviously he was hiding from someone or something. This also makes me wonder if he had been in any trouble in Scotland. There is a lot of mystery surrounding James. My grandmother told me that one of James' sons took the blame for something that the father did, but she didn't tell me what it was. My grandmother had married into the family, and I think she wanted to tell me, but couldn't do it. I know the original post was about finding James Currie's mother, but this tells some of what happened to her son James and his family in Canada. It makes me wonder if there is a criminal history in Scotland of the Currie family.
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Hi there, just found your post. Mary Ann Kenny (who married Neil Kenny (b.1885)) was a cousin of my mum's grandmother. Just did a search on Family Search and found a marriage for Margaret Currie (Sharkey) to a Michael Sullivan in 1912 at Murillo, Thunder Bay, Ontario - she is shown as the daughter of John Sharkey and Margaret Taylor. Thought this might help, although you might already have this information.
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Wow! I haven't been on here for ages.....Thank you so much everyone!
I will be heading over to Canada in May for a family visit and handing over all found info to my sister's mother-in-law. I have past tid-bits during the last few years, but have yet to be able to show her everything. There are a few more things that I'd like to clear up and or would just like to try and get a bit more on.
I just wanted to say THANK YOU.
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hello iggie james currie was my great grandfather.i remember visiting aunt ruby on balliol st.toronto also aunt margaret,uncle jack, uncle walter lived northern. ontario.i had known that james was a very cruel man,the family was terrified of him. i think aunt mary was the youngest,she was mentally ill she would sit and play with her dolls all day.hopefully you get this message and can reply.carrole
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This has been amazing to read! James (father of Neil) was my great great grandfather. Neil and Mary Ann had Walter and John in Scotland before immigrating to Port Arthur Ontario. They went on to have 7 more (not 5) children. Neil, Margaret, William, James, Thomas Ruby and Lindsay. Thomas was my grandfather, and I heard many stories of his parents. :)
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Carrole Wells & Charjane,
I was doing research for your cousins in Thunder Bay, one of which is my sister's mother-in-law. If you private message me we can exchange emails. I'll send you everything I have on this line.
Sorry Carrole Wells, I'm not sure why but I didn't get an email to notify me that you'd posted on here.
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Not sure how to pm..? Help! LOL
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Think you need to make another post before you can PM. Just say anything in reply to this post and that should do it. Then if you click on kshaw's profile name at the left of her post you should see send pm - click on that and off you go.
I remember this as a fascinating thread that I was pleased to be able to contribute to. It is worth noting that in the intervening time lots of records will have been added to various sites - there may be further information available!
Good luck and welcome to Rootschat.
William
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Thank you!