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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => London & Middlesex Lookup Requests => London and Middlesex => England => London & Middlesex Completed Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Gaye on Tuesday 21 June 05 09:19 BST (UK)
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Hi you helpful lovely peoples!!! ;D
I have a strange one to try to fathom.
JANE DIANA SLEAP b abt 1830 Poplar widowed in 1842
with son Daniel b.1838 Poplar
MARRIED 1843 Thomas Brown, full age, bachelor, of
4 Castle Place Poplar, mariner (I have copy of the cert)
I find Thomas Brown as a witness at his step-daughters
wedding in 1852 which takes place in Poplar. (cert held)
I am given RG09 288/55 Page 7 for 1861 Census which sort of
shows a mix of the right people with wrong information...viz Jane is wife of a LAMPRELL and LAMPRELL shows his stepson as Daniel Sleap, and a boarder 'Swedish seaman' is an unmarried Thomas Brown......hmmmm mmmm the plot thickens.
I am DESPERATE to find a clear picture of them in 1851 Census.
Won't someone please help?
??? ???
Gaye - NZ :(
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SLAPS FOREHEAD
::) ::) ::)
Sorry should read JANE DIANA BROWN!!!
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Gaye
You really must improve you maths ;D
If born in 1830 Jane would have been 12 when she was widowed.
While you are rethinking the age could you provide the name and age of the step-daughter. All information is helpful when a searchis being requested.
Couldn't find Daniel Sleap/Sleep in Bethnal Green or Whitechapel.
Sylviaann
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Lawdie Lawdie :-[
Musta bin too late in the day for me...
ahem my humble apologies
Jane Diana Jeffery was born about 1809 Poplar
married (1) 1828 Bromley to Daniel Sleap
with ensuing son Daniel born 1838
Married (2) 1843 to Thomas Brown
The witness information is from marriage of Jane Diana's
daughter Elizabeth Sarah Sleap b abt 1831 Poplar
married 1852 to Joseph Kent Drake.
It is the 1851 Census I'm trying to track down.
Thanks Sylv (I'm awake now!) hahaha ;D
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Sorry not in 1851 indexes for Bethnal Green or Whitechapel
Sylviaann
PS Heard that a rat chewed through a power cable the other day and you had no mobile phones or internet for a while. Is this true? May have been North Island only
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;D rats eh ... I didn't know it was a rat causing the
problem
It didn't affect me as I have broadband at work not
on dialup but I am in the North Island....
shame we still cannot find Jane Diana and Thomas BROWN
in the 51 Census ... *heads back to the drawing board*
:-* thanks Sylv
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I didn't think anyone lived on the North Island ;D ;D
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oi oi cheeky
;D ;D
Do you live in London Kenny?
Such a huge city and sooooooo many people....but thrilling with it.
Do you know of a 'tour' that will take you underground to bricked up
old bakery shops etc...after the plague and fire caused a rebuild?
I read this somewhere once and would absolutely love to go 'under'
but couldn't see any such tour when I was there late last year...
Gaye
xxx
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Hi Gaye,never heard of that tour,We live in the suburbs now,but I grew up in shoreditch ( Hoxton) Just like the peace and quiet now.( Boring)
Keep banging away.
Ken.
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Gaye,
Just joined Rootschat and just picked up your (long ago) plea for info re the above. Did you ever manage to get the details which you were after? If not, I can help on the 1851 census and perhaps you can help me if you know what happened to them after 1861?
Eric.
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Hi Eric
Gosh that one takes me back a bit!
I see I actually erred on the name too it was
Jane Diana and Thomas Brown I was looking for
in 1851 Census - but no didn't find them in 1851.
There is this entry in 1861
which seems to be Thomas Brown and Jane's son
at 41 Fore Street Stepney
RG09 288/55 Page 7
LAMPRELL, James Head Married M 47
Beer Caling House Keeper Great Wratting Suffolk
LAMPRELL, Jane Wife Married F 48 Gravesend Kent
LAMPRELL, Jane Daughter Unmarried F 12 Poplar
BROWN, Thomas BOARDER Unmarried(?) M 60 ...
Sweden or Swindon??
SLEAP, Daniel Stepson Unmarried M 22 Carpenter
Poplar
CLEAR, Anne Servant Unmarried F 15 General Servant
Poplar
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Eric
Sorry should have added:
Jane Diana Thomas died at 4 Laura St Mile End aged 61 years
1870
BMD Mar 1870 Mile End 1c 427
Death Cert #DYA683727
Jane Diana BROWN, aged 61 years,
widow of Thomas Brown, seaman Merchant service,
cause of death: phithisis, exhaustion certified
Informant: S Word, present at the death, of 9 Mill Place Poplar
Registered : 8 Feb 1870
Does this help you?
Rgds
GAYE
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Hi Gaye,
Thanks for the info which has clarified one or two things for me. Now back to your original query and a bit of background info which you may or may not already have.
1851 Census
95 Broad Street, St Dunstan Stepney, Tower Hamlets, London
HO107 Piece 1551 Folio 368 Page 17
There are two families both living at this address in 1851:-
Family 1.
Jane Brown Wife 41 b Gravesend, Kent
Jane Brown Daur 2 Scholar (so it says!!!) b Poplar, Middlesex
John Sleap Son 14 Tin Plate Worker's App(rentice) b Poplar, Middlesex
Daniel Sleap Son 12 Scholar b Poplar, Middlesex
Family 2.
James Lamprill Head 38 Eating House Keeper b (Great W)ratting, Suffolk
Caroline Lamprill Daur 18 b(Great W)ratting, Suffolk
Henry Potts Visitor 38 Coal Whipper b Barking, Essex
1861 Census
Is broadly as you have shown it with a couple of minor amendments.
41 Fore Street, St Anne, Limehouse, Tower Hamlets, London.
RG09 Piece 288 Folio 55 Page 7
James Lamprell Head Marr 47 Beer and Eating House Keeper b Great Wratting, Suffolk
Jane Lamprell Wife Marr 48 b Gravesend, Kent
Jane Lamprell Daur Unm 12 b Poplar, Middlesex
Daniel Sleap Stepson Unm 22 Carpenter b Poplar, Middlesex
Thomas Brown Boarder Widr 60 Labourer - - - -(?) Smith b Sweden (???)
Anne Clear Servant Marr 18 General Servant b Poplar, Middlesex
... more to follow ....
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... cont ....
James LAMPRELL (bap 1813 - ?) was the son of Richard LAMPRELL (bap 1775 - 1846) and Mary PURKIS (c 1776 - 1842). He married Martha COWLING at Barnardiston, Suffolk on the 2nd July 1833 and had two children - Caroline ( bap 1833 at Great Wratting) and William (bap 1835 at Romford, Essex). Caroline married to Charles WILKINSON at St Giles, Cripplegate, London in 1853 but, sadly, William died just 2 years old in Sept 1837 at East Ham.
I have not traced any record of James marrying to Jane Diana BROWN and my current thoughts are that they did not actually marry. I have also been unable to locate an entry for James' death in the GRO BMDs.
On checking the LONDON DOCKLANDS parish records (which are not complete, I should add), I came across the following baptisms relating to Daniel and Jane SLEAP:-
08 July 1829 All Saints, Poplar Elizabeth Sarah SLEAP (born 18 June 1829) dau of Daniel and Jane. Father's Occ Bricklayer.
09 Nov 1834 All Saints, Poplar Thomas William SLEAP (born 12 Dec 1833) son of Daniel and Jane Diana. Father's Occ Bricklayer.
17 Jan 1836 All Saints, Poplar John Jeffrey SLEAP (b 27 Sep 1835) son of Daniel and Jane Diana. Father's Occ Bricklayer.
12 July 1846 St Anne, Limehouse, Poplar Daniel Parker SLEAP (b 03 Oct 1838) son of Daniel and Jane Diana. Father's Occ Bricklayer.
..... more to follow ...
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... cont ...
As you say, Daniel SLEAP died in 1842 and I assume that the following reference in the GRO registers is to his death:-
July-Sept Qtr 1842 Daniel SLEAP Poplar Vol 2 Page 237
If you do not already have a copy of his death certificate it may be worthwhile considering getting one as it may provide useful additional information to help in your research.
I then googled for "Daniel Sleap" and came across an entry for the family on the www.geni.com website. (I have, of course, no means of confirming the details which appear for this entry on the site).
The details shown were as follows:-
"Daniel SLEAP (1806-1842) was the son of Samuel SLEAP ( c1770- ?) and Mary PARKER ( c1775- ?).
He married Jane JEFFREY and had a daughter Elizabeth SLEAP (1829-1865) who married Joseph DRAKE (1832-1881)".
Finally, one other snippet of information. Daniel SLEAP (jnr) was a witness to a fatal accident in London in 1849 which resulted in a prosecution being brought at the Old Bailey Central Criminal Court. You can read a transcript of the trial at www.oldbaileyonline.org by searching for "Sleap".
Hope that you find the info useful.
Regards.
Eric.
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:o
You are so detailed!!! Fantastic work Sherlock
So Thomas Brown is not at home in the 1851 Census
I knew about all the Sleap children but not this little Jane Brown aged 2
Two families are living at the same address, the Browns/Sleaps and the
Lamprills
By 1861 Census it appears that Jane Brown has married James Lamprill
and Jane Brown dau is now 12 but changed surname to Lamprill - Daniel
Sleap becomes James' step son and most weird - THOMAS BROWN is a
Widower aged 60 in the same house. Or is this Thomas Brown's father who
was also named Thomas Brown.
I agree with you that Jane Diana Brown didn't marry James Lamprill - it must have
been a commonlaw marriage since she dies in 1870 as Jane Diana Brown, widow of Thomas Brown seaman
At the marriage of Jane Diana's daughter Elizabeth Sarah Sleap in 1852, THOMAS BROWN appears as a witness - so he's alive and well in that year
There is no mention of Thomas Brown on the marriage certificates of sons John Sleap in 1856 and Daniel Sleap in 1864
Where are the Lamprills and John Sleap in 1871 Census?
John Sleap married Sarah Jane Crowden and here they are in 1861 Census
23 Lower Smith St Clerkenwell RG09 199/18 Page 34
SLEAP, John Head Married aged 25 Tinsmith Poplar
SLEAP, Sarah Wife Married aged 25 Southwark Surrey
SLEAP, John Son aged 5 Scholar Shoreditch
SLEAP, Daniel Son aged 4 Scholar Shoreditch
SLEAP, James Son aged 2 Clerkenwell
SLEAP, Joseph Son aged 0 Clerkenwell
Daniel Sleap married Harriet Elizabeth Matthews and here they are in 1871 Census
24 King St Chelsea RG10/81 Pg 62
Daniel Sleap, Head, aged 32, Carpenter, b. Poplar
Harriet Sleap, Wife, aged 28, b.Limehouse
Thomas Sleap, Son,aged 1, b. Stepney
Thanks so much for your enlightening info!
Best regards
GAYE
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;D ;D
Yes I do have the death certificate for Daniel Sleap who died
after an accidental fall from a scaffold in 1842
The GENI info is actually from my tree I have there ;)
Thanks for the snippet from the Old Bailey re Daniel Jr witness
- so interesting!
Dau Elizabeth Sarah Sleap married Joseph Kent DRAKE
and their son Walter John Drake b.1855 married Harriet Isabella BASSANO
who are my ggrandparents
Regards
GAYE
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Gaye,
My pleasure.
I would not place too much store on the census enumarator's understanding in the 1861 census which shows James and Jane Diana to be legally married. As you say, I think that a common law marriage was probably more likely though this was more usual where one (or both) of the existing partners was still living. We know that James was already a widower and, presumably, Jane Diana was also a widow by 1861 so why they had not married remains a mystery.
As far as James LAMPRELL is concerned, I cannot find any trace of him in the 1871 or later censuses nor of his death in the GRO records. I am thinking that he may have emigrated but don't have any proof of this and he certainly hasn't surfaced in Australia or the USA during my research of those countries. Just a thought - is there a searchable national database of BMDs in NZ to see if he possibly headed that way?
Regards,
Eric.
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Hi Eric
Lamprell is a bit out on a limb for me to worry about searching
for the family tree. But I do keep this info on the back burner.
We do now have an online searchable BMD for historic entries
https://www.bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/Home/
if you are ever wanting to check something here.
Do you have a particular personal interest in any of the family surnames I
have?
:-* thanks again
GAYE
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Hi Gaye,
Thanks for the link - I couldn't find James but I did manage to solve the mystery of another husband and wife whose death records I had not previously been able to find. :)
As you manage have worked out already, I am interested in the LAMPRELL name wherever it occurs in the world along with those families who marry into it.
Thanks again for the info.
Best wishes,
Eric.
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that's great Eric
It would be interesting to know what happened to the little girl
Jane Brown aka Lamprell b.1849 Poplar
did she continue to use the Lamprell surname?
Cheers,
GAYE
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I don't know the answer to that one yet, Gaye - it's on my list of "to dos".
However, I haven't found either a marriage or death record for her in the name of LAMPRELL so I am thinking that she too continued to use the BROWN name as did her mother.
I'll keep you posted on anything that I can turn up.
Best wishes,
Eric.
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Hi, this might be a late answer, but I'll give it anyway.
Regarding Daniel Parker Sleap (1838-1882) found in the 1861 census with the houshold of James Lamprell; well his mother wasn't married to James Lamprell, she was married to the lodger, Thomas Brown!
Hence Danial Parker Sleap was the son-in-law of Thomas Brown. His mother, Jane Diana Sleap (nee Jeffrey) married Thomas Brown 30 Jul 1843 at St George in the East, London. (Her first husband, Daniel Sleap 1806-1842, had died Jul-Q the previous year.)
It would appear that the enumerator misunderstood with whom she was married. I don't know if there is any relationship at all between her and James Lamprell; I think they were just lodgers.
regards, Barry
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....and the daughter was Jane Brown, born 5 Jun 1848, bapt 23 Jul 1848 Limehouse St Anne, daughter of Thomas Brown, mariner, and Jane Diana Brown, formerley Sleap, nee Jeffrey.
regards, Barry
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....and the daughter, Jane Elizabeth Brown married William Morrison 6 Aug 1871 Stepney St Thomas, England. William Morrison was born abt 1845 Sheerness, Kent, England. Found in 1891 and 1901 censuses with a load of kids.
regards, Barry
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:D :D :D :D
Nice early Chrissie pressie there Barry!!
Thank you so much
I did know Jane Diana married Thomas Brown 30 July 1843 so it was odd to see the 1861 Census
showing him as 'unmarried' - for sure the enumerator had erred on this.
The child Jane Brown b.5 Jun 1848 is the real gift - wonderful! You've given me another branch on my tree. Thank you thank you
Any chance you can give me the detail from 1891 and 1901 Census for this Morrison family?
:-*
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1881 England Census about William Morrison
Name: William Morrison
Age: 36
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1845
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Jane Morrison
Gender: Male
Where born: Poplar, Middlesex, England
Civil parish: Poplar
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street Address: 44 Manchester Rd
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:
Employment status:
Occupation: Labr At Lead Works (Formerly Caulker)
Registration district: Poplar
Sub-registration district: Poplar
ED, institution, or vessel: 39
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 512
Folio: 78
Page Number: 20
Household Members: Name Age
William Morrison 36
Jane Morrison 32
William Morrison 9
Alice Morrison 4
Ada Morrison 2
1891 England Census about Wm Morrison
Name: Wm Morrison
Age: 46
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1845
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Jane Morrison
Gender: Male
Where born: Sheerness, Kent, England
Civil parish: Poplar
Ecclesiastical parish: Christchurch
Town: Tower Hamlet
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street Address: 2 Johnson Street
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Education:
Employment status:
Registration district: Poplar
Sub-registration district: Poplar
ED, institution, or vessel: 36
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 337
Folio: 17
Page Number: 27
Household Members: Name Age
Wm Morrison 46 (Labourer)
Jane Morrison 43
Alia Morrison 15 (Servant)
Ada Morrison 12 (Scholar)
Waller Morrison 9 presumably Walter (Scholar)
William Morrison 19 (Labourer)
George Morrison 6 (Scholar)
1901 England Census about William Marrison (ie. Morrison)
Name: William Marrison
[William Morrison]
Age: 55
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1846
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Jane Marrison
Gender: Male
Where born: Poplar, London, England
Civil parish: Poplar
Ecclesiastical parish: Christchurch
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street Address: (looks like 2 Johnson Place)
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Education:
Employment status:
Registration district: Poplar
Sub-registration district: Poplar
ED, institution, or vessel: 33
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 193
Piece: 358
Folio: 22
Page Number: 36
Household Members: Name Age
William Marrison 55 (Road Lab)
Jane Marrison 51
Walter Marrison 19 (Road Lab)
Ada Marrison 21 (Telegraph factory hand)
George Marrison 16 (Lab in paint....?)
William Marrison 29 (Dock salesman)
Helen Marrison 26 (dau in law)
Isabella Marrison 5 (g-dau)
William Marrison 3 (g-dau)
Helen Marrison 2 Mon (g-dau)
Lim Sullivan 19 (boader)
And, while I'm thinking about it, John Jeffrey Sleap's wife was Sarah Jane Crowder (not Crowden).
regards, Barry
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You are a champ Barry
Many thanks
:-*
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You're very welcome. rgds, Barry