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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Seztratt on Sunday 02 February 14 15:49 GMT (UK)

Title: Ernest William barter
Post by: Seztratt on Sunday 02 February 14 15:49 GMT (UK)
Ernest William barter born 1884 minstead goes missing on 1901 census can anyone help.  His father William died 1887 and his mother frances Born 1851 is also missing from the census.  He has two half brothers Hubert tratt born 1875 and Wallace tratt born 1877 they are both missing from the 1901 census as well. I am wondering if they served in the boer war can anyone look this up? Or can anyone find any of them on the 1901 census.  Frances may well have remarried as her husband William had died 1887.  She had not remarried 1891 where she is listed as a widow living with Ernest and Wallace in minstead.
Title: Re: Ernest William barter
Post by: jim1 on Sunday 02 February 14 16:24 GMT (UK)
There's no military record for Ernest Tratt only a police one from 1904 for ill-treating a pony. He was fined £1. It states he was of the Black Bull Inn Mark.
Wrong name  :P

jim
Title: Re: Ernest William barter
Post by: jim1 on Sunday 02 February 14 16:26 GMT (UK)
Wallace Tratt was in the Merchant Navy.
Title: Re: Ernest William barter
Post by: rosie99 on Sunday 02 February 14 16:45 GMT (UK)
Wallace Tratt was in the Merchant Navy.

He may have married in 1900 at Southampton to Harriet Emma Finch.  She is married but living with her parents in 1900 in Southampton - Wallace is probably at sea
Title: Re: Ernest William barter
Post by: jim1 on Sunday 02 February 14 16:47 GMT (UK)
Hubert Tratt ( misinterpreted as Triatt ) is in Chiswick Mddx. in 1901.
He's in lodgings & is single & a stage carriage driver.
Title: Re: Ernest William barter
Post by: Seztratt on Sunday 02 February 14 18:14 GMT (UK)
Many thanks.  Now just need to trace Ernest Barter and his mother Frances.  Ernest does turn up in the 1911 census in Romsey married to Annie mcgahy who he married in 1911.  Frances seems to disappear possibly died or remarried?  Can't seem to find a death that fits.  I know a lot of her family (she is nee norris) seem to end up in USA so maybe she travelled?
Title: Re: Ernest William barter
Post by: jennifer c on Sunday 02 February 14 18:55 GMT (UK)
Seems a Frances Tratt was sent to prison in 1879 in Somerset.

Jennifer
Title: Re: Ernest William barter
Post by: seaweed on Sunday 02 February 14 21:07 GMT (UK)
The only reference I can find for Wallace Trait and his Merchant Navy Service was that he served as a fireman aboard the steamer GLEN HEAD discharged on 11/Oct/1918.
He was born 25/Mar/1877 at Calcott near Bridgewater Somerset.
I cannot find a  WW1 medal card for him. That's not to say he did not serve in WW1. if he did have MN service before 1918 it will be difficult to find him as the MN central personal records for WW1 have been destroyed and for the years 1857 to 1913 were not kept.
You may be able to back track using crew agreements but it can be a long and costly practice. My guess is he only did the one trip in 1918.
Title: Re: Ernest William barter
Post by: rosie99 on Monday 03 February 14 07:40 GMT (UK)
I cannot find a  WW1 medal card for him.

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/Details?uri=D8106639
Title: Re: Ernest William barter
Post by: Seztratt on Monday 03 February 14 08:18 GMT (UK)
Yes Jennifer frances served 6wks 1 day but later remarried William barter.  I am trying to find her and Ernest barter after 1891 Ernest turns up again in 1911 but Frances is a mystery. 

Thank You Rosie for the link to Wallace.

Everyone has been really helpful now hoping for a breakthrough with Ernest and Frances.
Title: Re: Ernest William barter
Post by: Seztratt on Monday 10 February 14 10:04 GMT (UK)
Still trying to find Frances Barter in the 1901 census and son Ernest Barter?  hoping someone can breakthrough the brickwall for me.  No deaths seem to tally up for Frances or marriages.  Ernest reappears in 1911 but no frances.  She was born frances Norris and then married a tratt before marrying a Barter. So annoying where does the elusive frances go?
Title: Re: Ernest William barter
Post by: Milliepede on Monday 10 February 14 10:47 GMT (UK)
No luck with 1901 but if you try Fanny instead of Frances for deaths/marriages a couple of options come up.

Marriage Sep 1895 Frome also includes a Frederick John Barter - don't suppose he is one of yours?

Other grooms are William Crabbe * and Reginald Toomer Smith.

Looks like William married Fanny and she was born Wales  :(
Title: Re: Ernest William barter
Post by: Seztratt on Monday 10 February 14 11:07 GMT (UK)
Frances was born somerset and the barter she married was William who was born ringwood.  I haven't traced anything on his side of the family so don't know if there is a Frederick.  Will have to go back on the census to see I can trace his family I suppose.  Perhaps she moved in with one of them?
Title: Re: Ernest William barter
Post by: Milliepede on Monday 10 February 14 11:17 GMT (UK)
Really struggling with this one.  She isn't with the relation she was with in 1881.  We don't even know if she was alive in 1901 but we know Ernest was.  Both elusive unfortunately.

Any other brothers/sisters etc of hers she could be hiding with? 
Title: Re: Ernest William barter
Post by: Milliepede on Monday 10 February 14 11:24 GMT (UK)
Why are the children down as Coombes in 1861  ???
Title: Re: Ernest William barter
Post by: Seztratt on Monday 10 February 14 19:43 GMT (UK)
Frances's mother was maiden name Coombes her brother Frederick had the middle name Coombes.  I assume they just all got listed as Coombes?  I have had a look at her siblings but she does not appear.  The only sibling I haven't yet traced is Thomas born 1836 in catcott somerset. I have him on the 1851 census just going to focus on him and see if they shows anything. thank you for your assistance I would really like to crack this piece of the puzzle.
Title: Re: Ernest William barter
Post by: Brian Tratt on Friday 25 April 14 23:45 BST (UK)
Frances was born somerset and the barter she married was William who was born ringwood.  I haven't traced anything on his side of the family so don't know if there is a Frederick.  Will have to go back on the census to see I can trace his family I suppose.  Perhaps she moved in with one of them?
Hi,

Did you get anywhere with this? Frances Barter was my Great Grandmother and I hit the same wall as you a few years back and was never able to resolve this - if you've got any new intelligence here I'd be interested in hearing further

Regards
Brian
Title: Re: Ernest William barter
Post by: Seztratt on Saturday 26 April 14 08:16 BST (UK)
Sorry, never got anywhere with it and then moved on. It's always worth trying again though as I've just broken through brick wall on my fathers side.  My husband is David tratt son of Graham tratt.
Title: Re: Ernest William barter
Post by: Seztratt on Saturday 26 April 14 16:54 BST (UK)
I did find out that Ernest barter married and had a son Ernest, son John and daughter Evelyn
Title: Re: Ernest William barter
Post by: Brian Tratt on Saturday 26 April 14 21:17 BST (UK)
I did find out that Ernest barter married and had a son Ernest, son John and daughter Evelyn
Hi

Thanks for your response - well I wasn't aware of Evelyn so that's something new. I think Earnest W Barter was my grandfather's half brother and was William Barter's son from a previous marriage as he when he married Frances in 1885 he was a stated as a widower

Regards
Brian
Title: Re: Ernest William barter
Post by: Seztratt on Saturday 26 April 14 23:33 BST (UK)
I had found christening records for Ernest barter with mother listed as Emma Harriet so presumed this was correct one and Ernest was a half brother. Haven't got money to send for every certificate so have concentrated on my family with the certificates.  It seems there are several people stuck with Frances so I wonder what happened to her ?
Title: Re: Ernest William barter
Post by: Brian Tratt on Sunday 27 April 14 00:05 BST (UK)
I had found christening records for Ernest barter with mother listed as Emma Harriet so presumed this was correct one and Ernest was a half brother. Haven't got money to send for every certificate so have concentrated on my family with the certificates.  It seems there are several people stuck with Frances so I wonder what happened to her ?

Yep found that record as well - couldn't find a death record for his mother Emma Barter though unless Ernest was actually christened when he was two (there's an Emma Barter buried in Lymington in May 1882).

Frances is on odd one though - I can only assume she left England but could find no records of her on passenger lists.  Did find some newspaper items on her conviction though - I guess you've found these too?

Regards
Brian
Title: Re: Ernest William barter
Post by: Seztratt on Monday 28 April 14 20:58 BST (UK)
I found a listing of a conviction but haven't seen a newspaper article.  I wondered if Frances went to America as I found other norris family there, she is a frustrating one, I expect someone will crack it one day.
Title: Re: Ernest William barter
Post by: Brian Tratt on Monday 28 April 14 23:59 BST (UK)
I found a listing of a conviction but haven't seen a newspaper article.  I wondered if Frances went to America as I found other norris family there, she is a frustrating one, I expect someone will crack it one day.
Hi

If you're interested in reading the articles there are three that I found:

1. Bristol Mercury 28 Jan 1879 Page 6 Col 5 or Western Gazette 31 Jan 1879 Page 7 Col 4
2. Bristol Mercury 11 Feb 1879 Page 6 Col 4 or Western Gazette 14 Feb 1879 Page 7 Col 3
3. Bristol Mercury 8 Apr 1879 Page 6 Col 4 or Western Gazette 11 Apr 1879 Page 6 Col 2

Basically the same text in each - I guess the papers were owned by the same people

Interesting you say America - I have a hunch it might be Canada but nothing firm to base that on really...

Regards
Brian
Title: Re: Ernest William barter
Post by: Seztratt on Tuesday 29 April 14 06:06 BST (UK)
Thank you I will take a look
Title: Re: Ernest William barter
Post by: Seztratt on Sunday 04 May 14 08:27 BST (UK)
What website did you find the articles on? I seem to go round in circles and find nothing.
Title: Re: Ernest William barter
Post by: smithy47 on Sunday 05 April 15 20:05 BST (UK)
Hi I have also been trying to trace Frances Barter formaly Tratt nee Norris for about 15yrs with no luck either.
I have been in contact with Norris family in the USA re: Frances but they have no knowledge of her so that is no help. The one person I did ask who might have know never answered when I last wrote but there is one other Norris family member I have just remembered and I will try and contact them to see if they have any knowledge of her. Other then that I am stuck as to where to go next. Have posted messages on Genealogy web sites again with no luck. I even looked at her husband's grave stone ( William) and the wills of her son's trying to find any information that might help. Once again nothing.
Regards
Kay
Title: Re: Ernest William barter
Post by: Brian Tratt on Saturday 29 August 15 22:54 BST (UK)
What website did you find the articles on? I seem to go round in circles and find nothing.
Apologies just seen your post! If you're still looking for these I found the articles on the British Newspaper Archive website but if you mail me at (*) I can send you transcripts
Brian

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