RootsChat.Com
General => The Common Room => Topic started by: ellarose on Friday 31 January 14 14:47 GMT (UK)
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I am happy for people to use my research to help them with theirs. It's the best and friendly way to share. I do get cross when someone who is the cousin of my brother's second wife takes my entire tree for his own including photographs. Seems that this is allowed on Ancestry.co.uk and I suppose it's difficult to alter it as it would upset the whole applecart. I have had to go private now, which I didn't want to do but every time I put something new up it is immediately taken by this tenuous cousin who obviously has absolutely nothing to do with me. Has anyone else experienced this or am I just being paranoid???
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Hi, it happens all of the time I'm afraid, it's one of the pitfalls of using Ancestry if you have a public tree, the only alternative is to make your tree "Private", sad I know, but it's a harsh fact of life.
If it was me with the problem I would "Have a pop" at the cousin ;D I'm pretty good at pointed remarks, something along the lines of "Hey, are you going to share some of your research with me, or are you going to use my time and money all of the time?"
Just to see what reaction I would get.
Frank.
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I have not put my tree in a public domain for fear of this. Sharing & helping out is one thing. You may find someone who will have that elusive piece of info that will help you. But, as I have gone through many old documents which takes time and money (particularly if the documents are v old) I do not want someone helping themselves to it all. I know someone who would claim it was all their work. Pity because there are a lot of nice helpful people out there.
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ellarose,
you can write to ancestry and ask for any pictures that you have uploaded yourself to be removed from another public tree. Pictures of my great-grandparents, which my cousin had posted before she went private, were showing on 2 public trees. I wrote to both tree owners explaining the situation and they ignored my request, so I took the matter up with Ancestry who removed them with little fuss.
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You may also be interested to know that ALL trees (private and public) are available to be viewed on Ancestry's sister site Mundia.
Now once your tree in private, you go into your tree and then go to the settings and read through very carefully and there is a box to be ticked and this stops your tree appearing on the Mundia site as well.
I found out the hard way about the Mundia site!!!!! After making a conscious decision that I wanted my tree to remain private and only sharing my information with selected people. I have even started mini trees for interesting branches, that any contacts made via that branch can only access what I want them to....
;)
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You may also be interested to know that ALL trees (private and public) are available to be viewed on Ancestry's sister site Mundia.
Now once your tree in private, you go into your tree and then go to the settings and read through very carefully and there is a box to be ticked and this stops your tree appearing on the Mundia site as well.
I found out the hard way about the Mundia site!!!!! After making a conscious decision that I wanted my tree to remain private and only sharing my information with selected people. I have even started mini trees for interesting branches, that any contacts made via that branch can only access what I want them to....
;)
O M G Plummiegirl.........please explain where you can tick,so a private tree is not on mundia.
I also have experience of my whole tree and photos being stolen by an unrelated person but I was confident I now had them set as private and not showing up in searches......perhaps I haven't though
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Wow I had no idea about Mundia either. I also have started smaller trees on ancestry separate from the one I shared. All my trees are private,but once you share, whilst the person cannot upload data directly to their tree they can save your work to their computer and then upload to their tree. Sadly, whatever precautions you take, once you post anything on a computer it is no longer truly "private"
Sally
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Now once your tree in private, you go into your tree and then go to the settings and read through very carefully and there is a box to be ticked and this stops your tree appearing on the Mundia site as well.
I cant see this, where is it please? Is it the box that says "Also prevent your tree from being found in the search index."
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You may also be interested to know that ALL trees (private and public) are available to be viewed on Ancestry's sister site Mundia.
FYI, that is not true. Only public trees are on Mundia. If you make your tree private it won't disappear instantaneously, so you have to wait a few weeks for both sites to update for your tree to disappear on Mundia.
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Here's Mundia's FAQ page which may help (although I am still baffled by it ::) )
http://www.mundia.com/gb/FAQ
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Thanks for that Acinonyx. Not being technically "with it" I was worried I had missed something, even though I had ticked the privacy and remove from search index boxes.
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Ellarose
Sorry I got side tracked from your original post by the Mundia issue.
Sadly a lot of people are lazy and will not do their own research, so if you have a public tree you have to accept that it will possibly be abused.
Some people will include incorrect info in their trees on purpose to deter cribbing, but this isn't really helpful because a person who purely copies is never going to check for accuracy. The result is a lot of public trees on ancestry are wrong.
The only way to stop your cousin is to make your tree private but of course the damage has been done. Many of us have learnt from bitter experience.
Ancestry will take the attitude that any public tree is fair game, after all they want us to share info.
Sally
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You may also be interested to know that ALL trees (private and public) are available to be viewed on Ancestry's sister site Mundia.
FYI, that is not true. Only public trees are on Mundia. If you make your tree private it won't disappear instantaneously, so you have to wait a few weeks for both sites to update for your tree to disappear on Mundia.
FYI it was true but the loop-hole was rectified after a couple of months after complaints.
Cheers
Guy
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Not only is the tree pirated but in many cases they are barking up the wrong tree.People don't like being told or they don't do anything about it.Had an argument about wrong info onmy grandmother which upset me because it made out that my aunt was born out of wedlock.I haven't put my tree online because I don't want all my names to goto someone who just collects and does no research themselves.
I know how annoyed you must be when you have taken time to research,money on Certs etc
Ringrose
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Both Ancestry and Mundia have rules about copyright and privacy. Hold them to it.
Regards
Malky
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After researching my tree for the last 25 years, I make sure that it has never been posted on any internet site. If I see that someone else is researching one of the lines, I will contact them, and if they seem genuine, will share information if it is of help to them.
Even so, you cannot guarantee they will not make it public, and you cannot guarantee they will post the correct details.
After many years of research, it does gripe when someone can cribb your work from the net in a few hours, and then claim it was "all their own work". ???
Steve
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As ever there are two ways of looking at this.I've been researching for some ten years now and I would never have made as much progress as I have without access to open trees.In the same way I would never make my Tree private.The object of the exercise is to make connections,one with another not act as if we are guarding the secrets of the state!
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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I've placed many hours and money into my tree, and have been grateful for the help and advice received from others whilst researching my ancestry, but I could never wish to overcome the annoyance of those who collect ancestry details by going private with my tree. What if I drop dead tomorrow and my tree is on private? All that time and effort and nobody, be it distant relatives or descendants, can benefit from it in the future. I look upon doing my ancestry as ensuring that the names and lives of my ancestors are remembered and free for others to continue in that remembrance.
Each to their own of course. :)
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Any way of knowing who looks at your tree.
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I've placed many hours and money into my tree, and have been grateful for the help and advice received from others whilst researching my ancestry, but I could never wish to overcome the annoyance of those who collect ancestry details by going private with my tree. What if I drop dead tomorrow and my tree is on private? All that time and effort and nobody, be it distant relatives or descendants, can benefit from it in the future. I look upon doing my ancestry as ensuring that the names and lives of my ancestors are remembered and free for others to continue in that remembrance.
Each to their own of course. :)
Hi, Now that is a very good and clear way of looking at the "Public/Private" debate, I think one of the main reasons (to me anyway) is that it only takes a second to contact someone and ask if you could use a photograph etc from their tree, I know that by making your tree and your research "public" it is there for all to see and no doubt take, But, good manners cost nothing.
I found something on Ancestry lately which was of use to me (A photograph) and I emailed the tree owner to ask if it was OK to take a copy saying that I knew it was public but still thought it fair to ask their permission, I got a wonderful answer back saying certainly and how nice it was of me to ask, I think if everyone acted in this way then a lot of the problem would be solved.
Regards always.
Frank (Just getting down off his high horse ;D )
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Couldn't agree more, and I have done the same. Unfortuately I think we are in the minority!
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I recently put mine as private because my father passed away 2 years ago so he now would automatically come up as no longer private and this worried me.
Can't believe people would do that though.
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My tree was set to private the moment I begun it because I knew that many of my cousins would not like their ancestry in the public domain. Unfortunately, there are several sites on the web about my family which reveal personal details that I find uncomfortable - I hasten to add that there is no one in my ancestry to be ashamed of, and much of the information is readily available in the newspapers or documented on TV but I fail to see the need for others to parade them quite so publicly, especially when said sites reveal the living. Fortunately, my own branch has remained off the radar, and fingers-crossed, they remain so.
The password for a private tree could be included in a will or tree could be downloaded as a gedcom file and transferred to a flash drive and given to a relative.
I do, however, understand those who choose to have public trees.
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One simple answer Dont put your tree on ancestry.
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I have a "skeleton tree" on Ancestry, just with names and birth year & place on them, enough for anyone to wonder if we are related but not enough to people can nick anything significant off them. I have, however, sent info directly to a cousin who apparently passed it all off as her own to her father, who praised her to various other relatives...
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Ella Rose, does your cousin realise what they are doing? I made a blind mistake when I first set out and ended up getting a phone call off my uncle asking if it was me... apparently one of the Welsh cousins had noticed my info matched his (right down to the capital letters I am ashamed to say) and emailed my Uncle. Once they realised it was me I was allowed to join their tree and given access to loads of resources and shown how to look up records etc.
To add to the general discussion I was recently contacted by a family History researcher who posed as a.n.other ancestry member helping out a friend and asked me for a copy of a certificate I had. While I don't mind sharing info even with professional researchers it just felt underhanded as he didn't tell me what he was until I after found out. I shared because he had something I wanted, but I didn't give him access to my online tree.
J
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Do what Sir Francis Bacon did - use a code. One could begin all names with x, y, or z which would indicate a certain code in what followed. Some of the Bacon codes were so ingenious - all in the Shakespear Code by Victoria Fellowes.
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Ancestry is set up to share information. Records and photos are recommended to users by Ancestry because of a possible link. I don't think this is stealing or bad manners. People need to be aware that what they put on Ancestry is available to be used by others. I don't put any photos or anything else that I would be annoyed to see appear on another tree.
Blue
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Ancestry is set up to share information. Records and photos are recommended to users by Ancestry because of a possible link. I don't think this is stealing or bad manners. People need to be aware that what they put on Ancestry is available to be used by others. I don't put any photos or anything else that I would be annoyed to see appear on another tree.
Blue
I have to agree. It is also a way of remembering our ancestors and honouring them. Ancient Egyptians believed that as long as a name lived then so did the soul. That is why some tried to erase names like that of Akhenaten and some of the Queens. One went as far as disfiguring the mouth of a mummy so that that soul would not be able to speak in the other world. Remember this when old photos are restored. Those who help restore them may well be enlivening those who have passed over with some new energy.
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I do not put my 25 years research on Ancestry even though I do subscribe. I have just put my name in to their search engine and my family came up, my sister is showing as she has died is shown on a private tree. I have written to the person to see who they are?
Jennifer
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I also made my main trees private because people were taking chunks of info and adding them to their tree without checking which resulted in some weird and wonderful trees. I've even taken my skeleton tree off because of this.
However last year I found some info on someone else's public tree which I thought could help me break a dead end so I sent a message explaining who I was and how I was related to their tree and asked if I could use their info and where it had come from. Maybe it was too much because I never received any reply yet the info is still there.
I hasten to add that I have not added any of it to my trees because I can't confirm it, but even if the owner didn't want to share they could have answered my message.
Everyone is different and I don't think there is any easy answer to this problem.
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However last year I found some info on someone else's public tree which I thought could help me break a dead end so I sent a message explaining who I was and how I was related to their tree and asked if I could use their info and where it had come from. Maybe it was too much because I never received any reply yet the info is still there.
I've had a similar sort of thing happen. I found information on 4 trees that is definitely wrong and I have all the certificates to prove it. I sent the tree owners a message pointing this out and asking where they got their information from. I offered to share the certificates. I only had a reply from one, who was very grateful and said she had copied her information from another on line tree. I can only presume that the others have no idea where the information came from and aren't that bothered whether they are correct or not.
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I don't, and never will, have a tree on Ancestry, and only a very skeletal one on GR. However, when I see an error on trees where members of my families appear, and have the proof to correct the error, I now just add a Comment to the entry, giving the information and source, instead of contacting the owner. At least, then, others have a chance to decide for themselves.
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I don't, and never will, have a tree on Ancestry, and only a very skeletal one on GR. However, when I see an error on trees where members of my families appear, and have the proof to correct the error, I now just add a Comment to the entry, giving the information and source, instead of contacting the owner. At least, then, others have a chance to decide for themselves.
What a brilliant solution. I think I'll be using that idea. Thanks BumbleB
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Thanks, grouse. Having tried, and failed, to contact tree owners to point out the possible mistake, I decided that this was the best way forward. ;)
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Problem is, when it starts to get difficult and expensive, copy and paste are the easy ways out. How many do a tree, then forget it, as it gets boring to sit at 2am trying through 20 potential sources to confirm the existance of 1 distant relation. I had a distant relation contact me through G.R. I sent her information and photographs of her grandfather, mother and grandmother, along with other members of the family. That was it. A thanks, and no further contact. That's life I suppose.
Regards
Malky
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Each to their own some people want to come to visit you while other people just want to share information about their roots. You have to be prepared for different reactions to sharing and contact. I've bought a lot of certificates and shared them by e-mail and hardly ever got any back and no one offered to share the cost. I don't share as much as I used to do LOL I wonder why?!
Blue
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I never put my tree online,the problem is there are many people who just want to take any shortcut they can and grab parts of trees and add them to their own,many do not seem to care if the tree they have taken is correct,I also have tried in the past to tell people that they have made a mistake in their tree but it is useless people just do not want to know,this has happened more with computers and software ,it has become too easy for people ,they just do not want to find out things for themselves,in a few years it will be possible to put you name into a site and for a fee have your entire tree given to you,then this great hobby will be finished,I am just glad that I started years ago when you had to travel to local records to find the parish records,and have the thrill of seeing something written about your family in the margin or at the bottom of the page which will never be recorded because it is not on the page proper
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I recently put mine as private because my father passed away 2 years ago so he now would automatically come up as no longer private and this worried me.
Can't believe people would do that though.
I had some problems on Ancestry even though my tree is private, therefore I have marked several of my immediate relatives who have passed away as still living, just to be on the safe side.
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I'm wondering whether all those who one can say apparently jealously guard their info,did all of their research themselves,or gained info like I have done in the past by spotting potential connections via other peoples Trees?
I have to ask quite pointedly;Why deny others opportunities that you yourself took advantage of?
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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I have been all round the country in the last 25 years researching my tree, well before online trees.
I have only ever been taken advantage of, believe me I have been very generous with my time and information, which we many of us still do on this wonderful generous site.
Also, the person I contacted at the weekend who has my sister who is deceased showing on their tree has not had the courtesy or decency to come back to me to let me know how my family and all my sister's details appear on their tree. ???
Jennifer
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Jennifer your a little impatient in waiting for a reply off your contact.I've had replies on Genes Re-united six years after my sending the message!
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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I'm wondering whether all those who one can say apparently jealously guard their info,did all of their research themselves,or gained info like I have done in the past by spotting potential connections via other peoples Trees?
I have to ask quite pointedly;Why deny others opportunities that you yourself took advantage of?
Regards
William Russell Jones.
I don't think that it is as clear cut as that. I'm sure that no one one here is unwilling to share, otherwise they wouldn't belong to a forum like Rootschat, where people go out of their way to be helpful. What people do object to, is when others just take huge chunks of their trees including photographs and certificates, without asking or even checking if it is the correct family.
I'm afraid though that this will always happen, especially now that television programmes and adverts make this hobby look so easy. The latest advert states, "Just type in your name and your whole tree will appear." or words to that effect.
As has been said, the only way to be sure that this won't happen to you is to keep your tree private so that people have to ask before they can see it. Then just share the relevant branches.
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Ancestry helps people who are beginners or not very good at research to make progress by encouraging them to look at possible links on other trees. Information is shared on Ancestry it's not taken without permission. Ancestry is set up so that whatever you put on there is available to others unless you use the private setting. The reasons I have trees on Ancestry are so I have a better chance of connecting with other researchers, to discover missing information and to help other people in their research.
Blue
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I have to agree with groom. I'm not jealously guarding the information I have. I'll share it with anyone, BUT I would like to be asked!!! And I'll willingly help others - hence my using "Comments" in order to put right errors I see in other trees.
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Well this quite literally "hot off the press".I've just spotted some vital info this morning regarding a daughter of my Greatx3-Grandfather from Bagillt's first marriage.The info appeared on a Tree on of all places Family Search.
I'm wondering whether I should ignore the info as it is not quite so easy to contact the owner of these Trees?I think most certainly not!
I'm not particularly fussy how I acquire genuine info about my ancestors!
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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I'm not particularly fussy how I acquire genuine info about my ancestors!
How do you know it is genuine though unless you contact them to find out where the information came from?
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I'm not particularly fussy how I acquire genuine info about my ancestors!
How do you know it is genuine though unless you contact them to find out where the information came from?
I never take info as read from anyone's Tree.I always seek to verify it from available records.In the case of this morning though it does look highly promising!
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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You don't have to ask anyone on Ancestry about using their information. Some people on this thread are trying to impose a code of conduct that doesn't exist on Ancestry. People can use whatever they want that's available on Ancestry.
Blue
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Well when I see a poster with that amount of names that they are tracing first I think I am dealing with a women, as they much more than men trace all the female lines and so are researching everybody in the entire world before they know it,along with that they have to use trees that are online,because the size of the task even with computers and the internet is nearly impossible,what the other posters on this thread have been saying is that many people grab a part of their tree and then shoehorn it into their own under researched tree and then they in turn put it on the net,and of course the same thing happens when somebody else does the same thing,before long it is all complete nonsense,nobody minds people asking to use part of their tree,but should understand that their tree should have enough research done to make sure it is the line they want and be willing to answer questions,many people now think family history should be a race to be completed in a week or so and to that end they do not reply to questions and react badly to corrections
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trace all the female lines
And so we should - they are just as much our blood lines as the male :)
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Well when I see a poster with that amount of names that they are tracing first I think I am dealing with a women, as they much more than men trace all the female lines and so are researching everybody in the entire world before they know it,along with that they have to use trees that are online,because the size of the task even with computers and the internet is nearly impossible,what the other posters on this thread have been saying is that many people grab a part of their tree and then shoehorn it into their own under researched tree and then they in turn put it on the net,and of course the same thing happens when somebody else does the same thing,before long it is all complete nonsense,nobody minds people asking to use part of their tree,but should understand that their tree should have enough research done to make sure it is the line they want and be willing to answer questions,many people now think family history should be a race to be completed in a week or so and to that end they do not reply to questions and react badly to corrections
Apart from being incorrect, I think quite a few members of this forum are going to find the beginning of your post offensive
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trace all the female lines
And so we should - they are just as much our blood lines as the male :)
In fact without one of each, we're snookered ;D ;D No lines at all :'( ;D
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trace all the female lines
What a very odd thing to say - why wouldn't you trace both lines? Surely you don't have a tree that consists only of males with their wives thrown in as an aside?
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Personally speaking I don't mind if someone uses my tree. After all I got a huge amount of help from a tree a relative of mine, now sadly no longer with us, did before me. Without him I doubt I'd be where I am in my research today. Also, for me, huge breakthroughs have come from requests I've made for help here at Rootschat. I suppose I'm coming from a place of feeling like my tree isn't all my own work, so sharing is fine.
I'm nervous about someone using my original research because I'm a beginner. I know at times my tree contained errors, which I've tried to iron out, but I wouldn't want someone to copy the errors.
I do look at other peoples public trees online on Ancestry. I can't say I've ever taken much information from them, as usually nobody has info that I don't already have. I've always assumed however that as their trees were public they didn't mind sharing.
As a whole I really enjoy sharing the things I have found and I'm working on a website which will host my results.
I'm not sure how I would feel if I became aware someone had borrowed my whole tree. If they really belong in the tree I think I'd be pleased because it's nice to share the information. If they did it in error and attached it to themselves in error I think my view would probably be more fool them.
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Well when I see a poster with that amount of names that they are tracing first I think I am dealing with a women, as they much more than men trace all the female lines
Hows that work out then?
Frank.
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Ummmm .....
The female ancestor branches are actually probably more vital than the male.
Kind of easier for everyone to see a baby emerging from a woman .....
Not so easy to ascertain from the records whose sperm actually made it to the egg.
Possibly only the mum knows .... And she may not want anyone to know about the milkman (or postman or butcher)
Cocksie
Apologies for going off the op topic
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Very true, Cocksie. Looking at it that way, only by tracing the female can you be certain you are following the right line. ;)
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The last two postings are too weird to reply too ,getting back to the original posting people do grab trees online and do attach them to their own and end up with a complete mess,my point was that when you are looking at half of England with as many as 30 names being researched people do this,when you email them you do not get a reply,firstly because just maybe they are a little shame faced in having done it and second because they do not give a dam and cannot answer or be bothered to answer your question,at least these postings have shown the dangers of putting your trees online,even when you make them private on Ancestry they are available on another site.
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If you are no longer a paid member of Ancestry then you cannot send nor recieve messages. If some one tries to contact you they have no way of knowing that, most people here seem make the assumption that you are refusing to answer if they recieve no answer when it may be that the recipient of their messages haven't actually received them, not that they could reply. If you use the "other" site [Mundia] mentioned then you can exchange messages, paid member of ancestry or not.
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That is what I always think too Cocksie, so I have tried very hard to follow the female lines of my family. However one line where every Sarah married a James and on another where every William married a Mary hasn't exactly made things easy. Good job I like a challenge. :)
I won't put my tree online after a very distant relative that I had contact with put all that information online then added me and my immediate living family!!! She said it was a mistake but it took a very long time to get us hidden. :o
Most people are not like her though.
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ellarose,
you can write to ancestry and ask for any pictures that you have uploaded yourself to be removed from another public tree. Pictures of my great-grandparents, which my cousin had posted before she went private, were showing on 2 public trees. I wrote to both tree owners explaining the situation and they ignored my request, so I took the matter up with Ancestry who removed them with little fuss.
I had the same experience.
Someone had my grandmothers picture on their tree. Since they were obviously not my relative I was a bit miffed. I wrote to the tree owner twice but he ignored me. I then wrote to Ancestry. The photo was removed within the week.
mab
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Hi Ellarose
Concerning the pirating of your family tree, the same thing happened to my cousin. Following a complaint to Ancestry, the tree of the other person disappeared off the site. It may be worthwhile contacting Ancestry about your concerns.
What puzzled me most with my cousin's experience is that there was no relationship between them. ???
I hope this won't put you off your family history research.
Regards
Coco
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I had the same experience.
Someone had my grandmothers picture on their tree. Since they were obviously not my relative I was a bit miffed. I wrote to the tree owner twice but he ignored me. I then wrote to Ancestry. The photo was removed within the week.
I gave personal info to a distant cousin who added us to her tree (fair enough) but ticked the 'deceased' box so my elderly mum, me and my siblings were visible. Contacted her twice, but no reply, so contacted Ancestry; they replied very quickly seeking clarification and changed the setting to 'living' within hours. Given the stick they sometimes get, I was impressed.
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If you are sending people on Ancestry messages and not hearing back it may because they aren't getting them. I've had at least two that I didn't see until I logged on after receiving other messages. I did email Ancestry so hopefully whatever was happening is cleared up.
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I changed my tree to private after people downloading stuff etc including relatives who could have at least given photos. I have someone link the family to a baron and when I pointed it out they removed it. There's some who have trees who have put the wrong greatgreatgrandfather so they have n't got the marriage cert of my great grandfather if they did they would know his name is Thomas and not joseph. Several trees have this 7/8. I notice they have n't got further anyway and I can't although I have the correct names but but 2 Thomas and marys at the same time, same area fairly much similar but I know which mary but need to find her death but is common. Bumble Bee's given me an idea, use the comments and lets see what they get then!