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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Lanarkshire => Topic started by: Dingross on Thursday 30 January 14 09:00 GMT (UK)
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I have been unable to find a birth registration for my great grandfather, Malcolm Donaldson, born around 1856-57. In the 1861,1871 and 1881 censuses, he is in the household of George Donaldson in Glasgow and his place of birth is given as Denny Stirlingshire (Linlithgowsh. in 1871). In 1861 and 1881 he is listed as "son" of George and Barbara Donaldson. In the 1871 census, he is listed as "foster son".
Once married and head of his own household, he gives his place of birth as Glasgow in subsequent censuses. He was a french polisher.
If he was indeed a foster son of George Donaldson, then I imagine his original surname may not have been Donaldson, which may be why I can't find his birth reg.
Any pointers to how to solve this?
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Hi,
When and where did George and Barbara marry?
Looby :)
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George Donaldson married Barbara Turnbull on 2nd December 1842 in Glasgow. George was born about 1821 in Ireland and Barbara about 1817 in Greenock, Renfrewshire.
The only other child in the family was Mary, born about 1845 in Glasgow according to census dates, so quite a big gap between her and Malcolm. Perhaps suggests sub-fertility and not unlikely that Malcolm was fostered/adopted.
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Hi again,
Did Malcolm name the Donaldsons as his parents on his own marriage Cert and are they recorded as parents on his death cert?
Just wondering if he knew his original surname? Could he have been another family member's son who the Donaldsons took on as their own?
Have you looked at the names of his own children for a clue - a middle name perhaps relating to his previous surname?
If he was born after 1855 their should be a certificate. But I know from experience how hard that is going to be to track down. I have a ggg- grandfather who was obviously born illegitmate probably in Glasgow circa 1855-1857. He is on the 1861 with his paternal grandparents in Ayrshire and using their surname -no sign of parents (his father is mining in Australia)- and I have yet to trace his birth cert as he must have been registered with his mother's name. On his marriage he names his mother as Jane Smith - probably a made up name- and hard to research.
Malcolm may not even have been his first name. Was he christened , by the way? Maybe a christening record could help?
Sorry for all the questions. Just posting my thoughts on the keyboard :).
And I need to go out in 15 mins....
Hope you solve your mystery
Looby :)
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Looby
I've been following this up and can say that he names George and Barbara as his parents on his marriage cert. I then chased up any Malcolm born Denny 1855-1857. There was only one. - I followed him up and found his mother had died in 1859. This looked hopeful as I couldn't find him on the 1861. However, I eventually found him in Denny with his widowed father and step-siblings under his middle name.
So, sadly, this was not him and can't think of any other way of finding him. It looks as if it could be a full name change or not born Denny.
Gadget
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Thanks Gadget. I appreciate your searching.
Hi Looby,
As Gadget says, George and Barbara are given as his parents when he married Jessie Monaghan in 1882 and again on his death certificate.
The middle names bit is interesting and intriguing. Three of his nine children, Mary, Robert and Adam, have McDougall as a middle name - but I think this relates to his sister Mary's husband, Robert McDougall. Oddly, Mary and Robert also had children called Mary Robert and Adam McDougall. Robert and Mary and their children were all living with George and Barbara Donaldson and Malcolm in the 1881 census.
Robert McDougall was born in Yorkshire in 1838. In the 1861 census he was 22 and living in Northumberland with his parents Adam and Sarah (no sign of a son). He married Mary Donaldson in 1865 and she would have been too young to have been Malcolm's mother.
Barbara Turnbull had 3 younger siblings. I've tried looking at Turnbulls born in Stirlingshire around the time of Malcolm's birth, but there are none in Denny
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On the Turnbull theme - there was a William Turnbull born to a Barbara Turnbull in 1856 in Larbert, Stirlingshire - but he's still William and still with Barbara in Larbert in her parents' household in 1861, so not the Barbara Turnbull who married George Donaldson. - another blind end!
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One wild poss from me! No idea how to prove this and events not in Denny but Kilsyth...
A Margaret ROUCHHEAD was having a number of illegitimate births in Kilysyth. The ones I can see here:
Malcolm 1857 https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FQT9-392
Agnes 1859 https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FQ4H-7QB and twin
Barbara 1859 https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FQ4H-HGM
Thomas 1865 https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FQT9-C99
Agnes 1867 https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FQ4H-7Q6
Thomas 1869 https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FQTS-SYH
I thought this 1861 entry might be young Barbara b. 1859:
Malcolm Mcculloch 29 Miner Ironstone
Agnes Mcculloch 28 b. Airdrie, Lanarkshire
Barbara Rouchead 1 adopted daughter b. Kilsyth
Address: High Craigends, Kilsyth
A possible for this Margaret in 1861:
Mary Braidy 47
Elisabeth Braidy 18
Ann Braidy 8
Andrew Braidy 6
Margaret Roughhead 28, boarder, cotton weaver b. Airdrie
Address: Oldtown, Kilsyth
Can't see a death for a Malcolm Rouchhead on SP up to 1861, with wildcards for spellings, so wondered if he may be the fostered son showing with the Donaldsons? A possibility which I can't think how to firm up further...
Monica
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Agnes McCulloch and Margaret likely sisters. Agnes' marriage showing here for 1854 https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XY7D-62V
Both Margaret and Agnes show in Campsie, Stirlingshire in 1841 living with a Watson family. Maybe both twins too like Margaret went on to have?:
Agnes Rochhead 11 H L W App b. Scotland
Margaret Rochhead 11 H L W App b. Scotland
I think this is a bad transcription of 1871:
Margaret Rinckhead 38 cotton weaver b. Camberwell, Dunbartonshire
Agnes Sarver 4 daughter b. Kilsyth
Thomas Sarver 1 son b. Kilsyth
Ellen Cook 39 boarder b. Kilsyth
Address: Robt Lushman Land High Craigends, Kilsyth
Monica
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When Thomas Rouchhead b. 1869 married a Lizzie Fleming in 1892 in Kilsyth, he gave his name as Thomas R Jarvie, son of a Thomas Jarvie and a Margaret ms. Rochhead. Both Thomases coal miners by trade. There is the image of the marriage cert on an online tree I have just found where this info is from.
This is likely them in 1891:
Thomas Jervie 59 labourer b. Stirlingshire, Banton (?spl)
Margar Jervie 58 wife b. Lanarkshire, Airdrie
Thomas Jervie 21 miner b. Kilsyth
Address: Private House, Kilsyth
No marriage showing on SP for Margaret and Thomas, or not that I can see from searches.
I can't easily see the 1881 entry for Thomas, Agnes and Margaret on the transcript.
For Agnes, I think she also shows as Jarvie in 1891 (maybe Thomas Jarvie was the father to the later children?):
Agnes Jarvie, 24, Cook Dom Serv. b. Kilsyth working at the Temperance Hotel in Larbert.
Monica
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Thank you - this looks quite promising, particularly with the first name being Malcolm. Malcolm doesn't seem to be a family name in the Donaldson family or the Turnbulls - and they seem to have been strong on using family names.
The 1861 census is also suggestive with her not having any children with her - and the adoption of Barbara.
The next thing would be to try and find a link to the Donaldsons, but like you, I can't think of a way to do it.
I had a look at Margaret Roughhead's death registration on SP - her name is given as Jarvie there - but like you, I can't find a marriage. The death was registered by Agnes - and it's a bit faint, but I think the surname she gives is Jarvie
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Hi again,
All this looks very interesting and seems a good possibility.
Could it be significant that Margaret Rouchhead calls her twin daughters Agnes after her sister and Barbara - the name of the Malcolm Donaldson's foster mother? :-\
You mention that Malcolm calls a son Adam - is this a family name in the Donaldson/Turnbull families prior to Malcolm's son?
Looby :)
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That's an interesting thought about Barbara's name.
Malcolm's brother-in-law, Robert McDougall's father was Adam McDougall. Robert's first son was Adam McDougall and Malcolm's youngest son was Adam McDougall Donaldson.
I've been having a look at the Roughheads / Rouchhead. There seem to be quite a variety of other spelling variants, which makes it a little more tricky. i'm up to 8 possible children for Margaret Roughhead - a Jean born in 1863 in Kilsyth and a Marion born in 1873 in Larbert in addition to the 6 found by MonicaL. The younger Agnes (1867) and Thomas (1869) both seem to have stayed with Margaret and taken the name Jarvie from her husband/partner, Thomas.
There's a rather puzzling census record on Ancestry for Thomas Jarvie in 1881, which has Agnes and Thomas in the household, but which has Agnes "Rotoghead", aged 46 as "mother" (of the head of the household - which is not actually possible) - could Agnes have been married to Thomas Jarvie??? or mother of Agnes and Thomas jr ???
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I've had another look at the 1881 census. I suspect that Agnes "Rotohead" may in fact be Thomas Jarvie's mother-in-law if the age has been wrongly transcribed. Margaret Roughhead's mother is given as Agnes (m.s.Adam) in her death reg. odd that Margaret isn't there though.
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Yes, I saw a reference on Familysearch which seemed to indicate that Margaret's mother was an Agnes Adam. That's why I asked about Malcolm calling his son Adam. But it makes more sense that he called his boy after his brother-in-law's father who he probably knew.
And it looks like Malcolm McCulloch's mother was called Barbara Innes before her marriage to McCulloch, so perhaps baby Barbara was called after her. Sadly, despite Margaret having all those children I can't find any births for Malcolm and Agnes. I think they have another daughter born circa 1865 called Margaret/Marion but I can't find a birth for her either. Could she be another of sister Margaret's ?
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FamilySearch has a Marion "Roughead", daughter of Margaret, born 25th August 1873. Malcolm "Rouchhead" was born 31st July 1857 and there are 2 Agneses - Agnes "Rouchead" 20 October 1859 and Agnes "Rouchheed" 22nd March 1867 - you see what I mean by all the spelling variations!
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I have been searching where I can for the surname as RO*H*D! You will find a multitude of spelling variations for this surname for sure.
From this index, Agnes (who I think should likely read Margaret) is top of the list:
Agnes ROUGHEAD, Mother, unmarried, 46, Breaker House Keeper, b. Airdrie, Lanark
http://tompaterson.co.uk/censussearch.php?Surname=ROUGHHEAD
Monica
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That's an interesting list.
Re Agnes Roughead - the puzzle with this entry is whose mother she is - not Thomas Jarvie's from her age - which is why I thought the age might be wrong, but you could be right that it's the name that's wrong.
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I'm afraid we can rule out Malcolm Rouchhead as the original Malcolm Donaldson. I found his death registration on Scotland's People. He died in 1940 and his name is given as "John Jarvie formerly Malcolm Roughhead; Coal Miner (retired); Single. Mother: "Margaret Roughhead, Cotton Weaver, afterwards married to Thomas Jarvie". (I suspect this was a common law marriage as I can't find a marriage registration for them).
Back to the hunt!
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Close...but so far :-\ ;)
Monica
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What a pity :(.
Back to the drawing board.
Looby :)
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Hiya,
Another one to throw into the mix.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FQRT-B7S
Malcom Maclaren born to Jean Mclaren , no father. Can't find this boy on 1861 Census. And I can't find a death pre 1861 for him. Of course his mother could have married and Malcom/Malcolm could have taken his mother's husband's name. :-\
Looked for other children to Jean (thinking along the lines of the Marg Rochhead.) and found a birth in 1863 of a Jean McLaren to a Janet McLaren at Denny. More than likely a different woman -Jean/Janet and McLaren being common names.
Where in Glasgow were the Donladson's on the 1861 Census?
Looby :)
Looby
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Hi,
The Donaldsons were at 10 Guildry Court, Bridgegate, Glasgow in 1861,1871 and 1881.
Fiona
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Hi again,
Have you seen this - a photo of Guildry Court - http://special.lib.gla.ac.uk/manuscripts/search/detail_i.cfm?ID=468
The previous page has a brief paragraph about the picture. Added - click on return to record.
Looby :)
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I'd seen something similar - but this is a better photo, thanks.