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Research in Other Countries => United States of America => Topic started by: Judy Pengilly on Monday 20 June 05 22:43 BST (UK)
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My Grandad, Frederick Cardell Pengilly, arrived from the UK on Ellis Island in 1911 off of the "Philadelphia" and worked for several years in Bingham Utah with other members of the family (Carkeek).
In 1917 he joined the Canadian Railway Troops and served in France until 1919. Here's the SCANDAL he met a girl (who became my Grandmother), Phillippa Mary Blanche Cole, probably whilst on leave from WW1 at the family home in Cornwall. He, post leave obviously returned to canada for demob and then on to Miami, Arizona. Grandmother then turns up, 6 month pregnant on Ellis Island in November 1919 off of the "Adriatic"
I believe he probably met her and married in New York, but did he? Or did he marry her in Arizona? Cannot find any evidence of marriage any help appreciated
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Looks like he got married in Cornwall ::) but not to Phillippa Mary - do you know the other wife?
Name Pengilly, Frederick Cardell
Record Type Marriages
Quarter December
Year 1891
District Redruth
County Cornwall
Volume 5c
Page 842
Does the name Charlotte Scoresby Lockwood b. 25/10/1878 mean anything to you? - maybe I should have asked for his birthdate first..... ::) ::)
Annie
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Here's a copy of his attestation papers upon joining the Cdn. Army in BC. Looks like he was born in 1892. He gives his mother as next of kin in 1917.
http://data2.archives.ca/cef/gpc013/573000a.gif
When she arrived in NY did she use her maiden name or married name?
Karen
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Hi Karen!
The one I posted was named Frederick Cardell Pengilly - obviously he's the wrong one - was that his father?
Annie
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Hi,
It only lists his mother, Elizabeth Jane as next of kin. Perhaps his father has passed away by this point.
If Charolette was that Frederick's wife, then must be the wrong one?
Karen
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I see now she was not married when she arrived. Wow, if he met her in NY, they could of got married anywhere between NY and Arizona. I guess you would just have to figure out the route they would have taken in 1919 to get to Arizona and check what States they would have went through. Sorry, not much help. At least you know it's not all the states, only maybe 8, since you ruled out New York and Arizona.
Karen
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OK Karen
I'm starting from the begining!
1871
Elizabeth Pengilly 1842 Gwennap, Cornwall Wife St Columb Minor Cornwall
John Pengilly 1847 Kea, Cornwall Head St Columb Minor Cornwall
1881
Elizabeth Pengilley 1844 Gwennap, Cornwall Wife Helston Water, Kea, Cornwall
Frederick Pengilley 1873 Kea, Cornwall Son Helston Water, Kea, Cornwall
John Pengilley 1839 Kea, Cornwall Head Helston Water, Kea, Cornwall
Mary Ann Pengilley 1878 Daughter Helston Water, Kea, Cornwall
Richard Pengilley 1875 Kea, Cornwall Son Helston Water, Kea, Cornwall
William Pengilley 1871 Kea, Cornwall Son Helston Water, Kea, Cornwall
1891
Elizabeth Pengelly Wid Head age 37 b. Gwennap
Frederick " Son age 19
Richard " Son age 17
Mary Ann " Daughter age 13
Carolyn " Daughter age 9
John " Son age 6
This is where it gets weird ::)
1901
Julia Mennea 1879 Camborne, Cornwall Servant Falmouth Cornwall
Edith E Pengilly 1882 Mexico Daughter Falmouth Cornwall
Elizabeth Pengilly 1850 Gwennap, Cornwall Head Falmouth Cornwall
Ethel Pengilly 1888 Mexico Daughter Falmouth Cornwall
Isabel Pengilly 1890 Mexico Daughter Falmouth Cornwall
I believe they are all Elizabeth - but birthdates vary - and children in 1901 were all born in Mexico ..... do you know about them???
I have the images - if you would like to PM me with your email address (for privacy) I could send them and you can decide for yourself .... ::)
Of course I haven't answered your original question but I want to make sure we have the right family - I believe the Frederick you mentioned at the beginning
is a different person..... ::)
I also have a copy of his WW1 registration card - so let me know what you want to do and we'll go from there!!
Regards
Annie
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Wow thank you Annie and Karen for showing an interest thats marvelous because I realy have hit the wall!!!
I have been a little cheeky posting on this thread because I initially asked my first question on the beginners thread. (Pengilly) If you go and read that one it will explain a little more and the mystery will deepen, I promise, even the TITANIC comes into this one.......
When I say I am trying to find my Grandad its true, thats the purpose of this thread. I can trace him until the 1930 Census then he disappears off the face of the earth. But I know he met (obviously - 6 months pregnant) my Gran straight after WW1, I would think while he was on leave whilst awaiting demob and passage back to Canada. He went to Arizona and obviously kept in touch with Blanche who informed him of his future fatherhood!!! She turns up, (her father pays for passage) in USA at Ellis, BUT at some point he married her, I thought possibly in NY on arrival or along the way but where?
I promise this has all the ingredients of an Edwardian novel....... please any help is very very much appreciated.
Judy
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Hi Judy!
I sent your stuff - let me know if you get it OK?
Regards
Annie
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I'm fairly convinced of everything up until 1891, that Frederick is Frederick Cardell Pengilly died 1st Feb1902 aged 41 so that fits, his wife Elizabeth Jane died in 1952 aged 85. The confusion comes in in this family where all the men and women come to that seem to have the same names aghhhhhhhh!!!!!! and its obviously catching because my husband Steven Cardell Pengilly and guess what my son Steven Cardell Pengilly Guess the family just lacks imagination.
The mexican link so far means nothing to me but believe me "Gwennap" is 3 shops and a very famous religious PIT!, (made famous by John Wesley as a preaching place). so there has to be some relationship.
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Aaaaaggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! Something just made me think about the TITANIC link. This is from the Titanic website:Pengelly (Pengilly) Family Information
Frederick (Fred) William Pengelly was born in the parish of Calstock, East Cornwall in early 1893 whilst his father was working in the area as a mining engineer.
Fred’s father, Frederick William Cardell Pengilly (sic) was born in 1861 in the village of Chacewater close to the intensive mining district of Gwennap near Redruth, Cornwall. He was the son of Charles Pengilly an arsenic manufacturer, arsenic being mined on a large scale in Cornwall at that time.
The 1891 census shows Fred’s father living and working at Gwennap. Described in the census as an assayer, his job would have involved the checking of the quality of metal, e.g. tin, copper or arsenic contained in the mined ore. Towards the end of that year he married at Gwennap to Elizabeth Jane (maiden surname not known).
Shortly following their marriage the couple moved to East Cornwall and settled at Calstock. It was here that their son, Frederick William Pengelly was born in early 1893.
Within a fairly short time the family left Calstock and returned westward to St Day, a village close by the mining district of Gwennap. It was here in the summer of 1899 that their second child, a daughter, Elizabeth Myra Pengelly was born.
The March 1901 census for their home at Buckingham Place has Frederick Pengilly (40), Elizabeth (32), Fred (8) and Elizabeth (1). Within 12 months Frederick Pengilly had died, he was buried in the St Day churchyard in February 1902.
It was commonplace for children as young as 9 or 10 to be employed at the mines so it can be assumed that Fred started work at about the time of his father’s death.
What happened immediately following his father’s death has not been established but it is known that by 1911/12 he had returned to the Calstock district of East Cornwall and was living in the small hamlet of Chilsworthy. It was whilst working in the mines there that he made the acquaintance of William Jeffery Ware of nearby Gunnislake who was to be his travelling companion on Titanic.
On 18 April 1912 the Western Morning News newspaper reported that Fred’s mother was living in Gunnislake and that she had remarried to a Mr G Reynolds who was away working in America. (This second marriage has yet to be substantiated). It is probable he was a miner and that Fred’s intention in travelling to America was to have met up with him there.
In early April 1912 Fred Pengelly and William Ware booked their Atlantic crossing with local White Star agent, Jeremiah Yeolton of Newbridge Hill, Gunnislake. They were due to travel on another steamer but as a result of the coal strikes had their passage transferred to Titanic. Their ultimate destination was to have been the copper mines of Butte, Montana.
They boarded at Southampton and travelled second class, their tickets each costing £10 10s. Neither survived the sinking and their bodies were not amongst those later recovered from the sea. Fred was barely 19 years old.
There is no mention of Fred in the Mansion House Relief Fund records which indicates that his mother neither claimed, nor automatically received any monetary assistance from the fund.
At some date following 1912 Fred’s mother left Greenhill, Gunnislake and settled at Redruth where she died aged 83 in 1953. She was buried with her husband at St Day churchyard where a gravestone marks their grave. There is apparently no memorial on it to their son Fred.
The following is taken from the Probate Index (note spelling of surnames)
PENGILLY Frederick William Cardell of Buckingham-place St Day Gwennap Cornwall mining-engineer died 1 February 1902 Probate Bodmin 1 March to Elizabeth Jane Pengilly widow. Effects £670
PENGILLY Elizabeth Jane of Somerleigh Gew-terrace East End Redruth Cornwall widow died 17 April 1953 Probate Bodmin 21 May to Elizabeth Myra Williams (married woman). Effects £510 9s 10d
Now it says he travelled with a freind William Ware have a look again at the 1930 Arizona Census about 15 names above my Grandad?
AAAAAAAAGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
Sorry everyone but I'm sure you can see how frustrating this really is.
Judy
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As a suggestion, you might want to look further at this chap on the Titanic Site
Mr Henry Forbes Julian
http://www.encyclopedia-titanica.org/biography.php/julian_henry_forbes_173.html
who also died on the Titanic
He was married to Hester Pengelly, youngest daughter of William and Lydia Pengelly of Torquay. Geologists.
You could also try contacting Steve Coombes the contributor to the Titanic site - he seems to have done profiles of many of the passengers.
EC
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You might also want to look at this article whish mentions more Pengellys involved.
http://www.encyclopedia-titanica.org/item.php/2212.html
I must admit I am struggling a bit with this - I am not sure why you believe Frederick Cardell Pengelly and Frederick William Pengelly could be/are the same person - could it just be the the Titanic researcher has got the two muddled?
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ec, I only read your thread through once so SURE I did not pick up all your details so maybe this is irrelevant and reinventing the wheel
1920 Miami, Gila Co., AZ
Fred Pengelly 26 <1894> married b. Eng M/F: Eng Mill Operator @ Copper Mines
Wife Blanche 19 <1901> married b. Eng M/F: Eng
1930 Globe Gila Co., AZ
Elizabeth Pengelly b. 1880 in England
kathy
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EC that must be the reason! must'nt it!!!!
but why did that Frederick Pengilly and my Frederick Pengilly travel with the same friend William Ware and purchase tickets, believe me Calstock is not a very big place. I do believe a researcher has made a mistake with the names but why William Ware as well. I am really very new to this and this is only the first week where I have decided to try do make sense of it all. If my Frederick Pengilly (and William Ware) for that matter had perished on the TITANIC my family would not exist!!! but I believe the chances of 2 family's sharing so many names to be more than a coincidence. Did he (My Frederick Pengilly) knowingly or unknowingly allow his name to be used, I truly dont know.
My interest is really trying to find where and when he married my Grandmother (I have a letter from him to his sister (Myra!!!!!) where he talks to her about getting divorced) and where on earth he disappeared to after 1930, there must be some other record of him after this date but I cannot find it anywhere.
Sorry for sharing and passing on my frustrations but surely people cannot disappear.........Unless they want to?
Kathy
The 1920 Blanche and Frederick are definitely them, they had 3 children, another Frederick B1920, Ester b1924, Gwendoline b1927 all registered in Miami Arizona.
Judy
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I hope you all dont mind but this is the first post I made yesterday on the beginners forum it might help.
Steve and Judy
Hi Pam, thank you so much for taking interest. My husband's Grandfather has been a mystery we have thought about for years.
That's definitely him on the Arizona Census in 1930, we have got him on the 1920, with wife, (Blanche (really Phillippa Mary Blanche Pengilly Nee Cole)) census, as well. After their marital break up in or around 1930ish! she returned to Cornwall with their children (Frederick, Ester and Gwendoline) the son Frederick being Steve's (my husband's) dad.
Here's the real enigma.........Frederick, shall I start calling him Snr? Was born in Calstock, Cornwall in 1892. Everything on that TITANIC website is him, no doubt!..... but it was not him! if it was, Steve would not exist! I know Frederick Snr joined the Canadian Railway Troops, and served in WW1 (as indicated by the 1930 Census).
My thoughts on the fellow, Frederick Pengilly, that perished on the TITANIC are that: a. Frederick Snr allowed a friend (possibly excluded from emigration) to use his identity (Frederick Snr was already in the US, he arrived on the "Philadelphia" in 1911 (Ellis Island records)). b. His identity was stolen? possibly for the same reason. c. There was a different Frederick Pengilly, from the same town, with same parents names and the same grandparents names....... Highly unlikely! Calstock is very small and the chances are minimal and not supported by the 1901 British Census.
A codicil to this Frederick Pengilly (TITANIC) is that his family never made any contact or claim to the White Star Line.... I think because the real Frederick Pengilly was not on board.
IT'S A MYSTERY!!!!!
Thanks again for taking an interest. I am determined to unravel the family puzzle.
Judy and Steve Pengilly
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JUDY, sorry for misaddressing you as ec before -- early here still and not enough coffee yet consumed.......
So you have them all in AZ in 1930, right?
So I guess the question is who is possibly on the Titanic? Or that is maybe a name error or someone else?
kathy
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Judy, forget my last post --- question answered by your post sent in the meantime.
Identity theft is a big leap tho the most interesting intriguing one!
You are sure no one else with same/similar/missplelt name from the same area could have travelled on the Titanic?
If they died, maybe no family to file a claim even if they were legit!
When I searched "Pengilly" I got a LOT of hits and a LOT of spelling variations.
kathy
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Hi Judy,
Do you think they officially divorced? Perhaps you could request the divorce papers from Arizona if that's where it was done? That would list when and where they were married.
From my own experience, my gr-grandfather changed his name and dissappeared. We still go by the name that he picked out.
Karen
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Judy
I think it would help if you told us what you have actually verified about 'your' Frederick - the stuff you have hard evidence for such as birth cert, parents, address on the cert etc. Also if you have birth certs for Frederick (1920) and siblings - I know nothing about US birth certs, but there must be similar info on them to british.
I am confused about the place(s) of birth - the attestation papers say Gwenepp, then you seem to think Calstock - these two are quite a way apart with Calstock being very close to Devon. Incidentally if you are relying on the IGI entry for Frederick William Cardell Pengelly then you should be aware this is a member submitted entry, rather than an extraction - not to be relied on, I think most would agree
I have done a quick search of IGI/BMD and there seem to be many Frederick Pengellys in the area. Obviously you have some information regarding earlier family as you mention a Carkeek connection - that may help.
Ok - I've no found this, which appears to be your Fred
1901
Frederick Cardell Pengelly b 1861 Chasewater, Cornwall Head Gwennap
Elizabeth Jane Pengelly b1869 Gwennap, Cornwall Wife Gwennap
Frederick Carkeek Pengelly b 1893 Calstock, Cornwall, Son Gwennap
Gwendoline May Pengelly b 1897 St Day, Cornwall, Dau Gwennap
Elizabeth Myra Pengelly b 1900 St Day, Cornwall Dau Gwennap
RG13/2238 f50 p15
RD Redruth
Sub-RD Gwennap
ED 5
BUT
I have also found this
William J Pengelly b 1869 Calstock, Cornwall Head Calstock Cornwall
Sarah J Pengelly b 1873 Calstock, Cornwall Wife Calstock Cornwall
Frederick W Pengelly b 1893 Calstock, Cornwall Son Calstock Cornwall
William J Pengelly b1896 Calstock, Cornwall Son Calstock Cornwall
Lilian B Pengelly b 1898 Calstock, Cornwall Dau Calstock Cornwall
Russel C Pengelly b 1900 Calstock, Cornwall Son Calstock Cornwall
RG13/2115 f111 p42
RD Tavistock
Sub-RD Calstock
ED 6
I think the second one was possibly the Titanic passenger.....
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EC, Kathy and Karen could I wait for my husband to come home and tell me how I can post the Birth Certs etc I think that just might make things a little clearer. For Kath and Karen I just answered your posts above but it does not appear to show yet so I will leave it for a wee while. The administrators might shout at me for this but if its easier to send docs's etc my e-mail judypengilly@aol.com Many thanks to you all
Judy
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Judy,
What are you using for birth date? Saw July 10, 1892 on WWI Draft Reg Card 1920 Census indicated 1894; 1930 is 1892.
Found California Death Record for
Frederick Pengilley -- spelling variation actual as shown
b. Apr 23, 1901
d. May, 1983
Last known Address: 91604 {postal code} Studio City, Los Angeles Co., California
SSN: 555-42-1304 Issued in Calif. before 1951
Imposter or Fred trying to conceal identity, could be using different birthdate?
Or peoples dates sometimes change over time or with old age.
kathy
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My last post has not shown yet so I might end up repeating the same mge.
EC, that would make some sense but it would mean or would it! that William Ware who bought a ticket and travelled with Titanic Fred didn't cause he's with my Fred in Az? I think. Soon as Steve gets in I will ask how to add the B Certs. I have original my Fred 1892, and the kids Frederick, Ester, Gwendoline.
Karen, not sure about the divorce, not certain of the marriage other than the quote from the letter. I never thought to start my search at the other end but it makes sense, going to try that one. Personally I dont think he did divorce and also believe he likely married again, poissibly bigamously. Blanche was killed in a German bombing raid on Penryn in Cornwall in 1941. If you go to the CWGC site you can enter her name and see. Its all so sad really.
Kathy, I dont think it could be him unless they have really got the dates muddled he was born 10 July 1892. Being a tin miner, he definately smoked (got a picture of him with a cigar in his mouth) I would not have expected him to live that long but who knows.
Judy
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Hiya Judy
Don't know if there might be anything on this link that might help
http://www.freesurnamesearch.com/
Plus I'm sure there is a database somwhere listing the names of people who landed at Ellis Island. I just can't seem to find the link at the moment soz
Willow x
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Hi Judy
The William Ware in 1930 is actually transcribed on ancestry as William Hore. Having looked at the image this looks correct, and having looked at 1901 Cornwall there were loads of possibilities for Hore and also Ware so I think this is a bit of a red herring.
Here is the baptism record for Frederick William (the one I believe was on the Titanic - fits with the 1901 census record
PENGELLY, Frederick William 2 Dec 1892 William & Sarah Jane Greenhill Bridge
father a miner **born 27 Sep 1892 bap St Annes Gunnislake
available on this site
http://www.minebydesign.co.uk/calstock/census/baptisms_p.htm
If you look on the Titanic site it lists Gunnislake as place of residence.
I really do think that the Titanic researcher is muddled between the two
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Hi again EC,
sorry but I have been busy. Sorry also as I am a complete beginner and do not really understand the term "actually transcribed on ancestry" does it mean you are certain that its not William Ware?
I have just had the name enhanced and read by an expert using a very powerful enlargement tool and he believes it, without any prompt from me, to be Ware, he's also using other examples on the page. I really dont know.
I know its very interesting but I really am trying to find my Frederick after 1930. I tried Kathy's suggestion of starting with divorces but drew a complete blank. I think all I have achieved today is to confuse myself even more.
Again many thanks I will post the other stuff to you later if you dont mind and of course if my husband knows how.
Many thanks again
Judy
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Hi Judy,
What about checking out the historical society in Miami? Here is the address and phone number for the Library. Maybe they might have some phone books from the 30's and you can see if he is listed. Or perhaps they may be able to direct you to who he may have worked for. Seems like a big mining place and perhaps their is information on who the main employers were.
Miami Memorial Library
1052 Adonis Avenue, Miami, AZ 85539
(928) 473-2621
phone
Karen
PS..I know my gr-grandparents never divorced and he re-married again.
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Hi Judy
I am not an expert. I looked at the page on ancestry and in the transcription William is shown as Hore - thats is what it looked like to me as well. In any case what I was trying to say is that William Ware and William Hore are both common names so could be any one of a number of people.....
In any case we know they are not the same person because William Ware died on the Titanic.
Looking at the Ellis Island site, your Frederick (who is, I believe Frederick Carkeek Pengilly not Frederick Cardell Pengilly) travelled with a William John Carkeek, age 24 who had originated in England but had previously been resident in Bingham Utah and was returning.
I think you have to either ignore the Titanic information or ask the contributor for his sources - it seems to me fairly clear he has muddled the two families I posted earlier as shown in the 1901 census
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Judy,
I assume you went to Arizona Vital records website or to Gila County website to look for what on-line searchable info they might have for marriage/divorce? You may not find a lot free on line but would have to pay and request a search/cert.
This is slow and tedious and absolutely no fun --- but you could google for an obituary -- I have found several on line for my family --- Try combinations of places dates names and see what comes up. If you find an obit it may have a 2nd wife, children and others named. Downside: is not alot of on-line obits prior to 10 -20 years ago for non-famous people unless somebody had created a special archive.
I think the mining co. in Miami/Globe area is/was Anaconda Copper Mining or Anaconda Metals Mining, may also be a U.S. Minerals, US Bauxite or something like that (used to live in AZ so really grabbing at past memories, here) -- copper/tin/bauxite operations are all centered in that area. Anaconda was a pretty famous company so you might find quite a bit about their history/personnel.
Think that is about all I have to offer in the way of suggestions.
Good luck!
kathy
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Hi Karen, EC
Just spoke to Miami and they are very happy to research any details I can give them ie Newspapers etc so I am delighted with that one.
EC, I feel a bit of a clown now because you are absolutely right he's not a cardell (his dad was) he was a carkeek which was is mums Elizabeth Jane maiden name which is why he was travelling with his cousin? I think. The Titanic researcher has really got his wires crossed, how does anybody let him know?
You need the patience of a saint for this stuff
Judy
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Judy, just out of curiosity, went back to look at the 1930 Census page for Frederick in Miami and I'm no expert on handwriting either, but I think that William is HORE. I blew the image up to 75 and 100%.
I can why your expert thinks the H is a W because alot of the H's have a "swoop" a the top of the H but I looked down the page to Homer H. Garrett and the H's are exactly the same - rather plain. IMO.......... just in case it ends up being a meaningful detail later on.
Also, this didn't come up the first time I searched and I doubt if related but just in case.......
1930 Highland Park, Wayne Co., Michigan
Fred Pengelly 48 marred @ age 23 Immigration Year: 1907
Janitor at Office Building
Myra - Wife 47 marr. at age 22 Immigration Year: 1910
dau Lillian 24 ditto
Son, Percy 23 ditto
Everybody born in England
kathy
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CORRECTION:
Should have googled first.....
Inspiration Copper
Miami Copper
kathy
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Thanks Kathy for that got some lovely old foto's, looked a bit like the moon. Silly question, is there a 1940, 50 Census what are the US rules?
The Library in Miami have promissed to check the newspaper database, somebody somewhere must know his final resting place.
Judy
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Hi Judy,
I googled Mining in Miami, AZ just for the fun of it --- Lot's of information and pics tho not much will be specific to your search for A Singular Person. It is a bit barren country, however, in person and in color --- it is quite beautiful there but over-mining and lack of early conservation techniques has taken it's toll.
1930 is last US census published. Freedom of Information Act has restrictions to protect living persons. I think 2012 is the issuance of 1940. that's why you'll have to go to appropriate Vital Records department for Death Cert once you determine his place of death or have clues as to possible locations. Some states will do searches in 5 year increments and issue the cert for all one fee - but everything varies from state to state.
So there is the challenge.......
Good Luck! Hope the Library comes up with some good info!
kathy
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Judy, forgot to add....checked on IGI SSDI (Social Security Death Index for US) -- only 2 deaths for Frederick Pengelly/Pengilly came up --
One was the California one with the 1901 birthdate I gave you previously
The other was in Pennsylvania or Massachusetts but the birth date was 1874. Didn't take notes since it was a Frederick born 20 years too early.
In case you don't know, IGI is not always to be relied on for total accuracy and like everything else, is incomplete. There are ALOT of Pengilles in the US spread out all over. Minnesota has a high concentration -- and ONLY 2 show up in IGI SSDI ---- illustrates how you have to consider your sources of info carefully and with "flexibile" thinking!
bye....
kathy
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Hi Judy
Not what you are looking for but you can print out the birth certificates for the 3 children.
Take a look at:
http://genealogy.az.gov
Regards
Valerie
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Hi Val,
thank you so much for those, I have copies already that cost me a fortune!! shame really butI am so determined to find this man. My Father-in-Law (the Frederick on the B Cert) is is now in his 86th year and I know how much he would love to find the last resting place of his Father (The missing link)
Judy
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Hi Kathy,
You are probably right so I will put what possible links I have with Frederick Carkeek back on this site and again ask everybody for some help. Everything in this family is written in riddles but I found something that came from Frederick Carkeeks Mothers house after she died in 1952 (Elizabeth Jane Pengilly Nee Carkeek) There is perhaps a tenuous link to San Fransisco ? and possibly another marriage to a lady Called: Ruby, Eileen, Alexander, Pengilly Nee Ward I think the surname is Ward and not Alexander-Ward the rumour is that they had 2 children, George Frederick!!!! and Jennifer Nora. As I say this could be another complete red herring.
Anybody ever heard of a "Storey (Starry) Harbour" it keeps cropping up as does Butte with the Carkeek's, We know he travelled with his uncle and cousins both Carkeeks to emigrate.
Also have a sort of address: PO Box 1444 Miami Az
Any help at all will always be greatly appreciated
Judy
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Judy,
The most obvious association with Butte is Montana -- but there are probably other Butte 's to be found in many of the western states. Didn't you say early on there were Utah family? There could well be a Butte, Utah. You might try googling that and see what comes up.
I Did a quick google on Storey/Starry Harbour -- nothing comes up or when you say it fast or slurred it doesn't ring a bell.
There is a Star Harbor, Texas which is South and slightly E of Dallas and is now a sleeper community for Dallas. This would be Henderson Co., TX
Back to the letter w/ the Miami, AZ address -- any date on the letter or postmark which might tell you if Fredrick was in that area post-1930?
Kathy
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Kathy the Butte is definitely the Montana Butte, plenty of Carkeeks around but no details of Fred. Bingham is the other place which he seems to think is Utah. Got several letters but sadly the post marks are all Az from 1926 - 1929 He writes to his sisters and mother, very affectionately regularly. Thats what confuses me as to his disappearance.
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Hi Judy
Had the opportunity to go the Arizona State Capital today and searched for a marriage cert for Fred. and Blanche.
Bingo!!
Marriage Certificate
for State of Arizona, County of Gila
Frederick Pengilly and Phillip(sic) Mary Blanche Cole were joined in marriage by me at Globe in the County of Gila on the 29th day of November 1919.
Signed by: Frederick Pengilly, Groom
Phillip Mary Blanche Cole, Bride
Frederick was 26, Blanche was 20
Witnesses: Frances Williams
William J. Carneek or Carnuk, or Carneck.
Details:
Recorded December 1, 1919 at 3:00pm in Book 5 of marriages, Page 428.
I have a copy but no clue how to scan and send. Would be happy to snail mail.
Regards,
Valerie
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Hi Valerie,
You really have made my day. I dont know how to thank you. My husband has been doing cartwheels since your post. I will pm you with my address and please please allow me to pay for any costs at all you have incurred. I am really really delighted. All I have ever asked from all of this is for a copy of the Wedding Certificate and Freds Death Cert with wherever he rests.
Thanks again Judy
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Hi Judy
I'm sending a couple of copies of the same page, it is a little faded, but I think very legible.
Absolutely NO charge. The thrill of finding them was more than enough.
Should be in tomorrow's mail.
Please don't haunt the Postie....they are funny about that kind of thing... :D
Regards
Valerie
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I cant thank you enough Valerie. I noticed at the bottom that you are trying to trace Antrobus, we have in the local village a very big house used for civic ceremonies called Antrobus House, the local pub is also called the Antrobus Arms. Don't hesitate to ask to find out anything about them should you wish.
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Took this photo in the English cemetery (Panteon Ingles) in Real de Monte (a silver mining town), near Pachuca, in Mexico, when I visited in early 2004 ...