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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Australia Lookups completed => Topic started by: meggles on Tuesday 28 January 14 04:17 GMT (UK)
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Hi I have a Jessie May Chamberlain who married George Henry Davis in Berry, NSW 1907. The information from the marriage certificate confirms that this is my Jessie and it also gives George's parents as George Henry Davis and Mary Carmody. Jessie is a spinster and George is a Bachelor.
Both living at Harley Hill Berry. (George was 28 at the time of the wedding making him born in 1878ish)
Then Jessie May Chamberlain (she is using her maiden name - not married name of Davis) gets married again in 1919 in Berry to a Samual Mogler - Jessie again as a Spinster and Samual as a Bachelor - information on the certificate confirms that it is my Jessie again. Jessie living in Berry and Samuel in Sydney
So what happened to George Henry Davis?
There is a George Davis dying in 1907 with parents of George and Mary - I thought that maybe he died straight after they got married (honeymoon) - but the guy dying in 1907 was very old and had a wife and daughter.
So my theory is:
George Henry Davis married in 1907 twice:
once to Minnie Croft and then to Jessie May Chamberlain
eventually Jessie has found out and the marriage is then null and void - therefore she is a spinster again and she has gone back to her maiden name because she was never really married.
why i think this - 1. George is mentioned in his mother's death notice in 1922 (although the deceased older son is not)
2. there is only one George Henry Davis being born in 1878 in the shoalhaven area
3. I can't find any other deaths that would match my George henry davis besides the one in 1944 who was the husband of Minnie.
So does anyone have any thoughts here? is there any records I could find to prove or disprove this theory?
or could anyone else find another Geroge Henry Davis that could be mine and explain why Jessie married as a spinster and her maiden name twice??
confused?
cheers
Meggles
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So my theory is:
George Henry Davis married in 1907 twice:
once to Minnie Croft and then to Jessie May Chamberlain
eventually Jessie has found out and the marriage is then null and void - therefore she is a spinster again and she has gone back to her maiden name because she was never really married.
why i think this - 1. George is mentioned in his mother's death notice in 1922 (although the deceased older son is not)
2. there is only one George Henry Davis being born in 1878 in the shoalhaven area
3. I can't find any other deaths that would match my George henry davis besides the one in 1944 who was the husband of Minnie.
Does the first marriage cert for your lass make ANY comment about it being annulled or void or otherwise ended by a civil court? I would expect this to be noted at the far left of the NSW BDM cert, or in the notes from an official transcription agent. The NSW Supreme Court would have needed to determine the validity of that marriage, and its determination would always be added to the registration process at NSW BDM. It was quite a formal process to add that type of note to the registration, several signatures, court reference numbers, dates and the like. A great deal of protocol involved. Were there any children of that first marriage? (Maintenance orders are included in the NSW SRO's "Divorce" Index.
http://srwww.records.nsw.gov.au/indexes/searchform.aspx?id=16 )
It would be usual for the offended party to seek a formal dissolution of the marriage, and for the NSW Police to be requested to seek a warrant for the arrest of the offender. In that era, these matters would be listed in the NSW Police Gazette. This too is available at NSW SRO, on reels. I am also aware it is currently available from a commercial website.
Cheers, JM
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The clergyman marrying Jessie in 1919 had the option of using three words for her status : Spinster, Widow, Divorcee.
There is NO obligation for the bride to use either her birth surname or the surname of any previous husband. Provided the bride is NOT attempting to hide any criminal matters involving herself she can choose to marry under any surname that she is ALREADY known by. If you are sure that your lass was twice married, and that the first ceremony ought to be void, it is important to also know that there were significant penalties for the parties to a marriage committing perjury for giving false information to the clergy.
http://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/sessionalview/sessional/act/1899-15.pdf
Cheers, JM
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Have you compared the signatures of the bride and groom on the two 1907 marriage certs? and also compared Jessie's signatures on the 1907 and 1919 and on any other documents she may have signed
Cheers, JM
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http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_act/ca190082/s92.html
"
92 Bigamy
Whosoever, being married, marries another person during the life of the former husband or wife, shall be liable to imprisonment for seven years:
Provided that no person shall be convicted under this section whose husband or wife has at the time of such second marriage been continually absent from such person for the space of seven years, or, if domiciled in New South Wales at the time of the first marriage, has been continually absent from New South Wales for the space of five years then last past, and was, on reasonable grounds, believed by the accused at the time of the second marriage not to be living, of which facts the proof shall lie on the accused."
Cheers, JM
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Have you purchased both marriage certificates from the 1907 marriages to see if groom info is the same. eg age, father's name, occupation. Of course, he may not have been telling the truth...
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Hi - I have the 2 marriage certificates for Jessie - one from 1907 and one from 1919. I have just ordered the marriage certificate for George and Minnie because I was convinced that the George dying in 1907 was going to be Jessie's husband - that should arrive by Thursday.
I guess I am leaning towards this theory because
1. he was not mentioned as dead in his mothers death notice in 1922
2. there is only one George Henry Davis being born in the Shoalhaven area in 1878 (yet I have Jessie's George as well as Minnie's George being born in 1878 in Shoalhaven.)
3. there is no other George's death that I can see that matches Jessie's George.Jessie and George may have had a child - but unsure (it could of been a child by the name of Roy - who was given to another family member to raise, he never knew his real parents - chances are high that Jessie is his mother, he was born in 1912 and he was raised by the Elliotts and grew up as Roy Elliott (can not find his birth registration at all - but that is all in another thread)
George and Minnie had a child in 1907, 1909 and then lots more until 1923..
Does this mean anything - I George's WW1 record it asks if he has ever had any Civil arrest (something along those lines I think) and he said Yes - could this be the marriage to Jessie that he was caught our for - it would that be criminial?
cheers
Meggles
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"...information on the certificate confirms that it is my Jessie again. "
Do you mean that the names of parents that Jessie m. 1907, and Jessie m. 1919, gives on the two marriage certificates are the same names for parents. If not, what information confirms this.
I am not wanting to be pedantic, but you have not stated this specifically.
Also, who are the witnesses on the later certificate........and might presumably know something of Jessie and her recent domestic history?
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Hi Wivenhoe
Your not being pedantic - you are right I have not given that much info on those marriages.
The marriage's have for Jessie the same parents but also all the witness's in both marriages are family members, as well as this the marriage's are reported in the paper and again they mention who Jessie is and mention's all the other relatives which are well Known to me (the witness's at both weddings were a variety of Nieces and Nephews of Jessies as well as her brothers (a different brother at each wedding). Unfortunately my mum is the eldest relative now living and she does not know the answer to any of this. Jessie's first marriage was a well kept secret, so even talking to other researchers who have been doing this for 20 years more than me didn't know about this first marriage - and they have spoken directly to the older generation before they died, but nothing was ever mentioned about this marriage.
Jessie's children from her second marriage are
1. Reuben Mogler who died about 1995 - no family to contact down this line
2. the second son died on the HMAS Sydney - he was a stoker
3. Joyce Mogler married a American solider during ww2 and moved to America - she died many years ago. I contacted her sons over there but they said that there mum never talked about her family in Australia and they had no info.
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Hi Meggles
Does this mean anything - I George's WW1 record it asks if he has ever had any Civil arrest (something along those lines I think) and he said Yes - could this be the marriage to Jessie that he was caught our for - it would that be criminial?
TROVE mentions several young chaps named George Henry DAVIS in trouble with the law in NSW but not for bigamy.
Essie
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Extra News - the marriage transcription for George Davis who married Minnie Croft has just come through - and yes it is the same George.
George married Minnie Croft 26 Feb 1907 at Forest Lodge and then he has married my Jessie May Chamberlain on the 30th Oct 1907 in Berry nsw.
There is no doubt at all that this is the same guy - same parents, (mother's maiden name the same - dads occupation the same etc)
So my question is where do I go from here? how do I find more info?
what I really want to know is around about what date did Jessie find out (was it the same year - or was it 5 years later)
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Wow!!
Could it have been around the time the baby was born that she found out??
Did he travel a lot for work - to explain the absences when he was with the other wife?
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Where is Forest Lodge in relation to Berry?
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Forest Lodge is in Sydney and Berry is South Coast near Nowra.
He had his occupation as a Labourer when he married Jessie, when he married Minnie he was a farmer.
I have not proved yet that Jessie and George had a baby............... probably need to get another transcription. I was hoping that I could get a idea of when she found out and that why I would have a better idea if they had a child together or not.
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Forest Lodge is inner west suburb of Sydney near Glebe
Berry is not near to Forest Lodge as it is not a suburb of Sydney.. Do you need a link for GOogle Maps and 'Get Directions'
JM
Where is Forest Lodge in relation to Berry?
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BDM NSW
13197 / 1907 DAVIS Ruby C parents George / Minnie Glebe
3454 / 1909 DAVIS Henry G parents George / Minnie Glebe
3912 / 1911 DAVIS Reginald parents George / Minnie Glebe
42455 / 1912 DAVIS Norman S parents George / Minnie Glebe
Did he have a short-lived bigamous marriage to Jessie May while continuing to live with wife Minnie in Sydney?.
What is the age and birthplace of George on the marriage certificates 1907 please?
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you ordered that today ... Excellent service... May I suggest you type up each transcript. Do you have the real deal certs to compare Groom signatures
JM
Extra News - the marriage transcription for George Davis who married Minnie Croft has just come through - and yes it is the same George.
George married Minnie Croft 26 Feb 1907 at Forest Lodge and then he has married my Jessie May Chamberlain on the 30th Oct 1907 in Berry nsw.
There is no doubt at all that this is the same guy - same parents, (mother's maiden name the same - dads occupation the same etc)
So my question is where do I go from here? how do I find more info?
what I really want to know is around about what date did Jessie find out (was it the same year - or was it 5 years later)
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Hi - he is 28 years old for both marriages.
George remained married to Minnie until her death in 1942 and he died in 1944.
I am thinking that if George and Jessie May had a child together then it would be Roy Davis born 1911 in Paddington - father George and mother May (as per another thread - I have a Roy Elliott who was given to a relative to raise and he never knew his parents - he took on their surname - but we suspect the mother was Jessie - the years fit - but I will need to get the birth transcription)
Otherwise there is no other children that I can see that they had.
I wonder if George had a job that took him away - was he able to keep 2 families a secret because he travelled for work.............. I need to find out when Jessie found out - there must be some record somewhere............
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Joy Murrin transcriptions - could not speak higher of their service, I have very little patience when it comes to waiting on a transcription and I do the express services which is between 1-3 days for email delivery.
I have only go the transcriptions so can not compare signatures - but from the information on the transcriptions in regards to George - it is all the same. I don't think that it would be possible for someone else to pretend to be George, Berry is a small town and everyone knows everyone and also Georges father was a very well known resident in Berry, my Jessie probably went to school with George but if not they would of known each other.
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Please provide names of clergy and the denomination/s
JM
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George and Minnie were married at the Methodist Parsonage, Forest Lodge by J.W.Collier -
Witnesses for this wedding were Bertram Collier and Elzth Collier - so looks like no relatives at this wedding.
George and Jessie were married at St Lukes Anglican in Berry - witnesses were Henry Reuben Chamberlin (Jessie's brother) and Jack Mathers - her nephew (who was the same age as her)
but there is also a newspaper clipping about the wedding - the bestman was J.Mathers (her nephew) and the bridesmaid was Miss Charlotte Mathers (her niece) .
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Not sure if this has any bearing on your search:
NSW Birth: 16392/1907 Hilda M CHAMBERLAIN; Father -- ; Mother Jessie M; Newtown
NSW Death: 7381/1907 Hilda M CHAMBERLAIN; Father -- ; Mother Jessie M; Sydney
cheers :)
cupoflife
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BDM NSW birth
20263 / 1878 CROFT Minnie parents Charles / Elizabeth Patricks Plain
BDM NSW death
14671 / 1942 DAVIS Minnie parents Charles / Elizabeth Sydney
BDM NSW marriage
648 / 1932 DAVIS Norman m. LUSTER Sylvia Redfern
SMH 21 Jul 1944
DAVIS -A tribute of love to the beautiful memory of my dear wife and our loving mother Minnie who passed silently and peace fully away July 21 1942 Always remembered by her loving husband and family.
DAVIS -In loving memory of Minnie Davis who passed away July 21 1942. Inserted by her son Norman daughter-in-law Sylvia and grandchild Lionel.
DAVIS -A silent thought brings many a tear for the one I lost, a loving mother who fell asleep July 21 1942. Inserted by her daughter Ruby.
SMH 23 Jul 1942
DAVIS.-July 21, 1942, at St. Vincent's Hospital, Minnie Davis, beloved wife of George and loving mother of Ruby, Harry, Reg, Norman, Cecil, and Roy, aged 61 years.
DAVIS -The Relatives and Friends of Mr GEORGE DAVIS and FAMILY, of 7 Lone Pine Parade, Matraville are invited to attend the Funeral of his beloved WIFE and their dear MOTHER, Minnie....Catholic Cemetery Rookwood.
Catholic Cemetery Rookwood
DAVIS George Henry 5 Sep 1944 66yrs SEC*M2*15**2675
DAVIS Minnie 23 Jul 1942 61yrs SEC*M2*15**2675
BDM NSW death
20723 / 1944 DAVIS George Henry parents George / Mary Ann Rozelle
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Thank you everyone for the information on George Henry Davis and one of his families. I have started to try and contact grandchildren down his line from this first marriage and hopefully someone will have some more info. I will continue to search to see if I can find any information on when Jessie found out about George already being married - but maybe it will be a question that will go unanswered.
cheers
Meggles
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Hi there,
May I please ask for you to go back through your thread, when you have the time, and check for some unanswered questions. I am not yet convinced you have found a chap marrying two different lasses in NSW in 1907.
May I please learn of the name of the clergyman at St Lukes as noted on the 1907 marriage for your lass.
There are not many instances where I would actually consider purchasing the real deal cert instead of an official transcription, however, I encourage you to consider purchasing the real deal certs for both the 1907 marriages OR for you to spend the time to find the original registers and make photos of the signatures of the groom, and then give RChatters on the Decipher board the opportunity to consider IF the same person signed each time.
May I please pop some doubt about please. I realise that 1903 is possibly a tad too early to give good info about 1907, however, for the record I am providing info from the Dec 1903 electoral roll for Berry. It was NOT yet compulsory to enrol.
NSW ER 1903 ILLAWARRA polling at Berry
Charles Edward CHAMBERLAIN of Berry, butcher
Charlotte CHAMBERLAIN of Berry, domestic duties
Richard CHAMBERLAIN of Berry, labourer
Richard CHAMBERLAIN of Jasper’s Brush, labourer
George Henry DAVIS, of Berry, fettler
May DAVIS, of Berry, domestic duties
William DAVIS of Berry, labourer
I have only go the transcriptions so can not compare signatures - but from the information on the transcriptions in regards to George - it is all the same. I don't think that it would be possible for someone else to pretend to be George, Berry is a small town and everyone knows everyone and also Georges father was a very well known resident in Berry, my Jessie probably went to school with George but if not they would of known each other.
May I add to the list of questions ::)
On either of those 1907 marriages certs, are any of the parents of the bride or groom noted as deceased?
Cheers, JM
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NSW ER 1903 DALLEY polling at Forest Lodge
Charles, senior CROFT. 247 Bridge Road, ironmonger
Charles, junior CROFT, 247 Bridge Road, book-keeper
Minnie CROFT, 247 Bridge Street, domestic duties
NSW 1901 HOUSEHOLDERS Census (transcribed by me from the image, apologies for any typos)
247 Bridge Road, Glebe Chas CROFT, 2 Males, 7 females
P A St, Berry (Prince Alfred St ?? ?? ?? ??) George H DAVIS, 2 males 3 females
Cheers, JM
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http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/114352217 Shoalhaven News 9 Nov 1907
"The marriage of Mr Geo. Davis (Sydney) with Jessie Chamberlain, youngest daughter of Mr R. Chamberlain (Berry) was celebrated at the Church of England, Berry. Mr J. Mathers was best man and -Miss C. Mathers bridesmaid."
May I ask you to carefully check the two 1907 transcriptions please. Particularly for the usual address for the GROOM. From the above newspaper cutting chap who married Jessie does NOT seem to be a local son of a chap from Berry.
Cheers, JM
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NSW ER 1903 ILLAWARRA polling at Berry
George Henry DAVIS, of Berry, fettler
The George Henry DAVIS of Marrickville who died 6 July 1945 probate granted 28 Aug 1945 valued at £130 was a Retired Fettler.
NSW BDM online index has his mother as Mary, #18215 registered Marrickville, 1945.
NSW SRO has a Deceased Estate file for a G H DAVIS of Forest Lodge, death 10 April 1903.
Could this be for a George DAVIS, NSW BDM # #4937 registered Sydney? or a George DAVIS NSW BDM # 5288 registered Berry?
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/101693984 Kiama Independent, and Shoalhaven Advertiser 17 April 1903 .... George Davis a Ferryman, brother of an Alderman.
So it seems there's perhaps two chaps, both named George DAVIS who died in NSW perhaps on same day as each other. One at Forest Lodge, and one at Berry. (Good Friday was 10 April 1903 as per notices for Church services at Trove)
Cheers, JM
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First Marriage: George and MinnieDate: 26.Feb. 1907
Where: the Methodist Parsonage Forest Lodge
Religion: Methodist
Groom: George Davis
Bachelor
Where Born: Nowra
Occupation: Farmer
Age: 28
Current Residents: Balmain
Father: George Davis (deceased)
Mother: Mary Carmody
Fathers occupation: Publican
Bride: Minnie Croft
Spinster
Where Born: Singleton NSW
occupation: Private Life
age: 24
current residents: Forest Lodge
Father: Charles croft (deceased)
Mother: Elizabeth Russell
fatehrs occupation: iron Mouger
Wit: Bertram Collier and Elizth Collier
Minister: J.Wl Collier
Second Marriage - George and Jessie
Date: 30.10.1907
Where: St Luke's church Berry
Religion: Church of England
Groom: George Henry Davis
Bacholer
Where born: Shoalhaven, nsw
Occupation: labourer
age: 28
usual Residents: Harley Hill, Berry
Father: George Henry Davis (Deceased)
mother: Mary Carmody
Fathers occupation: Hotel Keeper
Bride: Jessie May Chamberlain
Spinster
Where born: Shoalhaven
Occupation: Domestic Duties
Age: 22
Usual REsidents: Harley Hill, Berry
Father: Richard Chamberlain
Mother: Charlotte Burgess
Fathers Occupation: Tanner
Witnesses: Richard John Mathers and Henry Reuben Chamberlain
Minister G.Jeannings.
George Henry Davis's father (G.H Davis senior) was born in Batherust and then moved to Berry where he spent 38 years running the ferries on Broughton River as well as Bomaderry, he then sold up and moved to Sydney for about 19years where he had hotels. He then moved back to Berry in his later years where he died and is buried. In 1903 his sons are also living there - George Henry Davis junior is mentioned as being in the Berry hospital in 1903 (the newspaper report about him being in hospital also mention's his brother James])
The William Davis you have in the 1903 electrol roll is George junior's brother.
So the family moved from Berry to Sydney and then some come back to Berry.
The George Henry Davis in 1903 is Junior as Senior died earlier in 1903. George was listed as a Fetler (does repairs on the railway - so likely works away from home alot)
with this information - do you still think I have the wrong guy? should I still get the original marriages? or should i first see if I can find some annullment paperwork?
advice is kindly received
cheers
Meggles
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Does the first marriage cert for your lass make ANY comment about it being annulled or void or otherwise ended by a civil court? I would expect this to be noted at the far left of the NSW BDM cert, or in the notes from an official transcription agent. The NSW Supreme Court would have needed to determine the validity of that marriage, and its determination would always be added to the registration process at NSW BDM. It was quite a formal process to add that type of note to the registration, several signatures, court reference numbers, dates and the like. A great deal of protocol involved. Were there any children of that first marriage? (Maintenance orders are included in the NSW SRO's "Divorce" Index.
http://srwww.records.nsw.gov.au/indexes/searchform.aspx?id=16 )
It would be usual for the offended party to seek a formal dissolution of the marriage, and for the NSW Police to be requested to seek a warrant for the arrest of the offender. In that era, these matters would be listed in the NSW Police Gazette. This too is available at NSW SRO, on reels. I am also aware it is currently available from a commercial website.
From very early in this thread :)
Cheers, JM
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George Henry Davis Senior died in april 1903. as mentioned he was living in sydney - but moved back to Berry at the end of his life and is buried there - but had spent the previous 19 years in sydney.
The George that died in 1903 in Berry was the son of James and Elizabeth (George's junior's brother was James and living in Berry - so maybe their son)
George Senior's brother was a alderman (mentioned in George's obit)
The George Davis that died in 1945 (retired fetler) was born in 1863 - too old to be my guy.
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There is no comments on the transcriptions at all.
so nothing about annullment or one being void.
On George Henry Davis (husbane of Minnie Croft) military records from ww1 it asks if he has ever been convicted by a civil power - and he has answered yes. (could this be the annullment)
I have checked the NSW police gazette with no luck.
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The 1903 death, was that at Forest Lodge or at Berry or were there TWO chaps by that name who died 7 April 1903 ....
So are you saying that the Fettler named George Henry DAVIS enrolled to vote in Berry in 1903 and that HE was NOT your chap ? If so, then there's obviously several chaps named George Henry DAVIS in and around the Berry district in that decade.
Cheers, JM (edited to sort out grammar issues. sorry)
George Henry Davis Senior died in april 1903. as mentioned he was living in sydney - but moved back to Berry at the end of his life and is buried there - but had spent the previous 19 years in sydney.
The George that died in 1903 in Berry was the son of James and Elizabeth (George's junior's brother was James and living in Berry - so maybe their son)
George Senior's brother was a alderman (mentioned in George's obit)
The George Davis that died in 1945 (retired fetler) was born in 1863 - too old to be my guy.
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sorry - confused myself
The George in Berry was George senior - his parents were James and Elizabeth.
I don't know who the George Davis dying in Sydney to the parents of Sidney and Caroline - but it is not George Senior or George junior.
Sorry didn't finish before I posted - I don't know if the George Henry Davis who died in 1945 and was a fetler was the same as the one in the 1903 electrol rolls - they could of been 2 diffrent people - I have not looked at the George Henry Davis that died in 1945 - wrong age etc.
Davis was a common name.
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There is no comments on the transcriptions at all.
so nothing about annullment or one being void.
On George Henry Davis (husbane of Minnie Croft) military records from ww1 it asks if he has ever been convicted by a civil power - and he has answered yes. (could this be the annullment)
I have checked the NSW police gazette with no luck.
Perhaps you may need to check the original registers at St Lukes to see if the clergyman has made any notes re the validity of that Oct 1907 marriage.
I have not sighted the WWI records, but if there was civil action, and if such was the NSW Supreme Court ruling a marriage void, then even if a transcription agent has not noted any margin notes, the NSW Supreme Court Action would usually be listed in the legal notices in the SMH and/or other newspapers at Trove, as well as the likely arrest warrant for the offender.
I am more inclined to continue to question that there's likely to be two chaps, despite the occupations for the deceased father and the maiden name for the mother on those two 1907 marriage transcriptions.
Cheers JM
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NSW ER 1913 CAMPERDOWN, Polling at Camperdown.
George DAVIS 25 Foss St, labourer
Minnie DAVIS 25 Foss St, domestic duties. No others by that surname listed at that address. However, there were quite a few with surname CROFT living nearby, some as close as Cross St :) which intersects with Foss St.
Please do not confuse Foss St Forest Lodge with Ross St Forest Lodge. Ross St intersects with Parramatta Road opposite Sydney Uni. Foss St is a typical narrow street running off Pyrmont Bridge Road
Cheers, JM
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Hi JM
Can I ask why you think that there is 2 chaps? I am happy to look into this but not sure where I would go from here.
I have already checked out other deaths for George Davis between 1907 and 1919 and there is none in NSW that fit.
Is it because there is no mention of George and Jessie in the papers being annulled?
cheers Meggles
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1. Until the Harvester Case the wages for a fettler with a family would not be likely to support TWO separate households, and even with taking into consideration the Harvester Case, it is still unlikely there would be sufficient funds.
2. DAVIS is often recorded as DAVIES in many records, and so you need to consider all George Henry DAVIES chaps as well as George Henry DAVIS.
3. It was NOT compulsory to enrol to vote until the mid 1920s, so just because you cannot find someone in NSW in pre WWI does NOT mean there was no one to find.
4. Until you have had experienced eyes to compare the signatures you simply do not know if the chap who married your lass in 1907 was actually a fair dinkum George Henry DAVIS going about in his parents locality, marrying a local very friendly lass, who may have met him on the street in Forest Lodge where Mrs (Minnie) George Henry Davis lived. It is just as possible that the Rev Jeannings was not familiar with the DAVIS family so took the chap's word that he was George Henry Davis.
5. Without the marriage of Oct 1907 being found by a court to be flawed, the offender in the 1919 marriage (if the same person as Oct 1907) would be Jessie. It would therefore be sensible for you to clearly, beyond all doubt (not just reasonable doubt) establish if the 1907 marriage is flawed in any way. Afterall, you don't want to pass on information to your family that would be WRONG ..... or mis representing your shared ancestors for "what does that say about your research skills".
6, Major difference between being a labourer and being a farmer. I have picture somewhere of a Diary farm at Glebe Point in 1930s.
There's just some of my thoughts.
Cheers, JM
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ex_parte_H.V._McKay
http://worksite.actu.org.au/the-harvester-judgement-and-australias-minimum-wage/
http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/australias-first-workplace-revolution/2007/11/11/1194766506302.html
http://airaanz.econ.usyd.edu.au/papers/Robbins_Harriss_Macklin.pdf
http://www.abc.net.au/federation/fedstory/ep3/ep3_events.htm
Cheers, JM
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May I please apologise for some of the grammar/syntax and spelling issues cropping up in some of my posts. I am not on my usual puter, and I have only just now realised how to fully disable the predictative whatsy thingy rubbishy apparently "helpful" tool on this borrowed puter.
I prefer to make my own spelling mistakes, and choose my own words to type up ;D and rely on my own choice of words.
(http://images.sodahead.com/polls/001101087/Cry_Baby_xlarge.gif)
Phew ;D
Cheers, JM
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Forest Lodge is inner west suburb of Sydney near Glebe
Berry is not near to Forest Lodge as it is not a suburb of Sydney.. Do you need a link for GOogle Maps and 'Get Directions'
JM
Where is Forest Lodge in relation to Berry?
No thanks I have been to Berry and have previously lived in the suburbs of Sydney, so I roughly know the distances. I was mainly curious as to how he could marry twice and keep it quiet from the neighborhood.
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There are some co-incidences of name here which may be interesting to follow up ;D
Nothing here is at all conclusive, just maybe's ;)
A NSW marriage
Reg 8419 In 1942 LITTLEDIKE Claude Stanley
To DAVIS Constance Irene
At GRAFTON
A Qld death
In 1973 Reg B43789 Irene Constance Andrews Father Davis Mother-
A Qld Marriage
Yr 1937 Reg C1346 Roy LITTLEDIKE to Hilda Margaret MERRITT
A Ryerson Index entry Death
LITTLEDIKE Hilda Margaret
On 30NOV2005
Aged 96 late of Springwood, formerly of Gold Coast
PublishedCourier Mail (Brisbane) Date 05DEC2005
Both women appear on the electoral roll in Qld after their marriages under the surname LITTLEDIKE Constance just once as in 1943.
Sue
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Yes me too. I was born in Sydney and have lived on and off. Berry is very well known to me as well as my grandma and mum were both born there and I have spent a great deal of time there ( aunts uncles cousins all still live there).
I think it would be quite easy to have one life in Sydney and another in Berry in 1907.
But I suppose I am yet to prove it.
I have emailed my transcription agent as well as st Luke's in Berry to see if I can get any more info.
I have also ordered a birth transcription which might be a child of George and Jessie's. ( long shot)
Also found that you can request annulment records through the NsW courts so will follow up with this.
Cheers Meggles
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Both of Jessie's chidrens died as babies. I have their death records. They must have been common names back then. Thank you for trying though. :)
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That is a sad thing to hear.
My thoughts were unsubstantiated speculation ;D
Sue
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Not sure if this has any bearing on your search:
NSW Birth: 16392/1907 Hilda M CHAMBERLAIN; Father -- ; Mother Jessie M; Newtown
NSW Death: 7381/1907 Hilda M CHAMBERLAIN; Father -- ; Mother Jessie M; Sydney
cheers :)
cupoflife
Do you have the date of this child's birth. Jessie was also married in 1907.
Regards
Jennaya
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NSW ER 1903 ILLAWARRA polling at Berry
George Henry DAVIS, of Berry, fettler
NSW ER 1903 DALLEY polling at Toxteth
George Henry DAVIS, 10 Boyce St, Journalist. There were ten by that surname enrolled at that polling place in 1903, not all at that same address though
Cheers, JM
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I was going through this thread.
Can I ask how come he was 28 both times he got married.
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I was going through this thread.
Can I ask how come he was 28 both times he got married.
First Marriage: George and MinnieDate: 26.Feb. 1907
Where: the Methodist Parsonage Forest Lodge
Religion: Methodist
Groom: George Davis
Bachelor
Where Born: Nowra
Occupation: Farmer
Age: 28
Current Residents: Balmain
Father: George Davis (deceased)
Mother: Mary Carmody
Fathers occupation: Publican
Bride: Minnie Croft
Spinster
Where Born: Singleton NSW
occupation: Private Life
age: 24
current residents: Forest Lodge
Father: Charles croft (deceased)
Mother: Elizabeth Russell
fatehrs occupation: iron Mouger
Wit: Bertram Collier and Elizth Collier
Minister: J.Wl Collier
Second Marriage - George and Jessie
Date: 30.10.1907
Where: St Luke's church Berry
Religion: Church of England
Groom: George Henry Davis
Bacholer
Where born: Shoalhaven, nsw
Occupation: labourer
age: 28
usual Residents: Harley Hill, Berry
Father: George Henry Davis (Deceased)
mother: Mary Carmody
Fathers occupation: Hotel Keeper
Bride: Jessie May Chamberlain
Spinster
Where born: Shoalhaven
Occupation: Domestic Duties
Age: 22
Usual REsidents: Harley Hill, Berry
Father: Richard Chamberlain
Mother: Charlotte Burgess
Fathers Occupation: Tanner
Witnesses: Richard John Mathers and Henry Reuben Chamberlain
Minister G.Jeannings.
Hi Leanne,
There is less than twelve months between the dates of the two ceremonies. (26 Feb. 1907 and 30.10. 1907.)
I must admit that I continue to be a little surprised by the spelling 'Current Residents' and "Usual Residents" on the official transcriptions (Residence ? ), and a tad surprised by the different ways the dates are transcribed.
Of course, the real deal certificates would have the signatures of the parties, and the decipher board here at RChat is full of people who could help determine if the same chap signed as the groom on each register. The Oct 1907 certificate would also give that bride's signature for comparing her signature if she was the informant for the birth registrations for her children and also for her 1919 marriage.
NSW BDM online index has a birth registration for 1878 for George, with parents as George and Mary DAVIS, registered in the Shoalhaven district. #21996. I have not noticed an index entry for a George Henry DAVIS' birth being registered in that district in 1878.
Cheers, JM
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http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/114352217 Shoalhaven News 9 Nov 1907
"The marriage of Mr Geo. Davis (Sydney) with Jessie Chamberlain, youngest daughter of Mr R. Chamberlain (Berry) was celebrated at the Church of England, Berry. Mr J. Mathers was best man and -Miss C. Mathers bridesmaid."
May I ask you to carefully check the two 1907 transcriptions please. Particularly for the usual address for the GROOM. From the above newspaper cutting chap who married Jessie does NOT seem to be a local son of a chap from Berry.
I had been following up on the C of E Rev’d for St Lukes, Berry, but put the info aside waiting for some answers to questions on this thread. I will post the info now as I am tidying up my notes, and so I hope it will help our OP along while she is waiting to update us all on her enquiries with family members
August 1907 St Lukes C of E BERRY
Death of the Rev G H MUZY.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/114353381 Shoalhaven News 31 Aug 1907
http://austcemindex.com/inscription.php?id=6151673
Nov 1907
Rev John BOARDMAN appointed Rector of St Lukes C of E, Berry… He held his initial services in Berry on Sunday 3 Nov 1907.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/127577600 Shoalhaven Telegraph 6 Nov 1907
In the same paper, under the same heading “Berry Bulletins.”, “ Miss Jessie Chamberlain was married last Wednesday to a Mr George Davis. The ceremony took place in the local Church of England” so the Rev G Jeannings was likely just the locum who conducted the 30 Oct marriage ceremony. To my thinking that can be a pointer when there is a possible suspect marriage under investigation, so if this were my family I would save up the pennies and get the real deal certs to check what signatures match/or otherwise. I note that the Shoalhaven Telegraph is not giving any pointers as to who that Mr George Davis was, but again, I suggest he was not well known locally, or at least not well known to the clergy at St Lukes, or to the newspaper reporter or the person who sent the info to the reporter.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=672376.0
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=675752.0
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=675075.0
Cheers, JM
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I have PM quite a few people at their request and have given them the ending to my theory (at least where I am up to now) and now consider this closed.
Meggles