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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: barrierexpress on Sunday 26 January 14 21:19 GMT (UK)
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I am trying to find the parents & birthplace of James Henry Murdoch, and three of his children.Here is what I know.
He died in 1934 in NZ.From his age at death I assumed he was born in 1859.
His wife was Jane Mary Nicol. She was born in 1858 in Scotland, and died in 1903 in NZ.
They married in 1901 in Dunedin in NZ.
They had the following children-all born before they were married. Janet Mary .b 1898 in NZ. Arthur Patrick b 1897 in NZ. Jane Ellen b 1891 in NZ. Henry James b 1889 in ?. Minnie Ann b 1887 in ?, and David b 1885 in ?.The reason I know all the birth dates is from a piece of paper in a deceased family members belongings(possibly James Henry`s father or mother) that listed all the children and the time and date of birth (but not the place)
I figure that as Jane was born in Scotland, then James was probably born in the UK, and maybe they met in the UK and had three of their children there. If so there would be immigration records showing them coming to NZ (probably Dunedin), but I have been unable to progress further. Any help would be appreciated.
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Since posting this, I have discovered that as far as the children go, Minnie Ann and Henry James (George) were born in NZ but carry the surname of Nicol.(as does Jane Ellen) I have been unable to find David, and am still searching for James Henry`s birth place and parents.
Can anyone tell me why some of the children carry the surname Nicol, yet husband is shown as James Murdoch?
Thanks.
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1911 Electoral Rolls Invercargill District Region/Province Southland NZ
Lists James Murdoch @ Liddel St a Quarryman
Lists Jane Murdoch @ same address.
There are some Family Trees online that state James was born in Ballarat Victoria Australia in 1861
Father given as James Murdoch - Mother as Hellen Purdy. Birthplace for James Miners Rest Victoria. :)
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Hi Ballybw,
Thanks for that info. I have come across three other family trees stating James was born in Ballarat,with parents Campbell Murdoch and Mary Egan but am certain they are incorrect as the parents given were born after James ,so they obviously hadn`t been researched very well.
Ihaven`t come across records giving Helen Purdy as mother but doubt if that is correct.
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A 1901 New Zealand marriage certificate will give places of birth and parents' names for both the bride and groom. The birth certificate of any of their children will also provide the parents' places of birth.
The family tree mentioned by ballydw which gives James' parents as James MURDOCH and Ellen/Helen PURDY states that the 1901 marriage took place at the registrar's office in Dunedin on 5 Jan 1901 which suggests to me that they have a copy of that marriage certificate.
When Jane's children were born she was not married so normally they would have been registered under the surname NICOL if the marriage details on the birth certificate indicated that the parents/mother were not married.
The same tree mentioned above suggests these births for Jane:
1885/11627
NICOL, Robert David
Mother: Jeanie
No father named
1887/3158
NICOL, Minnie Ann
Mother: Jane
Father: James
1889/899
NICOL, James Murdock
Mother: Jane
Father: not named
1890/4228
NICOL, Henry George
Mother: Jane
Father: James
1891/16052
NICOL, Jane Ellen
Mother: Jane
Father: James
1898/12535
NICOL, Janet Murdoch
Mother: Jane
Father: not named
They do not have Arthur Patrick listed and I can't see a birth registered for him.
The NZ indexes allow for an exact date of birth search so perhaps you can check the births above with the dates given in your family documents.
To progress your research you will need to purchase a copy of the marriage cert.
https://bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/search/
Debra :)
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Hello Dundee,
Thanks for your help. I may have mis-led with wrong information, because I have managed to make contact with family member who doesn`t remember much about what they were told, but is clear about a couple of things. They confirm Jane Mary was Scotch, and recall being told that James Henry was Irish, as it was unusual for Irish to marry Scotch.Which means I need to look in Ireland for a lead on James
I was also told that Jane was alive after 1903-until at least the late 40,50`s and that she died in Petone Wellington. Buried in Taita Old Section Cemetery, which can`t be accessed on line. I have found two Mary Janes that the dates fit ,but the family member is adamant her name was Jane Mary, and not Mary Jane. I'm not so certain.
As for the marriage date, this also may be incorrect.
So it`s back almost to square one. Sorry for wasting everyones time. I'll Post again if I uncover more information.
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...Arthur Patrick b 1897 in NZ.
Maybe Arthur Patrick is the one mentioned here http://genforum.genealogy.com/newzealand/messages/16436.html - husband to Janet Murdoch/Nicol that you and Debra have listed?
Monica
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Hi Monica,
You are correct. That was me some time back -still working on this family.Thanks
David
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Hi ballydw, and Dundee
Haven`t progressed any further yet, but have found that James Murdoch and Ellen Purdey that you mentioned were married in 1860.That is one year after James Henry was born .James Henry and Jane Mary were married in 1901 in Dunedin, and the children are correct.
I still doubt that James Henry was born in Ballarat, but as yet still haven`t traced him.
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Hi,
I found these, possibly regarding your Jane,
New Zealand, Electoral Rolls, 1853-1981
1946
Jane MURDOCH 76 Richmond St. Petone, Widow
1949
Jane MURDOCH 76 Richmond St. Petone, Widow
There is a tree online that gives her death as "12 Sept 1950, Richmond Street, Petone, N.Z."
That could fit with this death, but unfortunately the website doesn't say where the death occurred,
https://bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz
Jane MURDOCH 1950 84years
Regards,
Daisy
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Hi Daisy,
Thankyou. This is definitely 'my' Jane, and confirms what the family said "that she died in Petone" It now also gives me the actual date.
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Thanks to Daisy I now know that the birth date I gave for Jane Nicol should have been 1866 and not 1858.
So now I don`t know where she was born-probably Scotland but haven`t located her yet, There is no record of her birth in NZ with NZBMD.I am waiting the marriage certificate for her and James from NZBMD to first of all confirm that it was her and James that married 1901, and if so hopefully more information on parents and origins.Will post when I have more.
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Jane Nicol b. 24/10/1865 Kilsyth Stirlingshire Scotland
D. 12th Sept 1950 Richmond St Petone NZ
Parents John Nicol & Margaret Sloan :)
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Thankyou so much Ballydw.
Now I can give my full attention to James Henry.In case anyone following this thread has connections to Jane Mary ,I have a photo of her I`d be pleased to share.
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There are 2 baptism records in scotland dates not given.
1 James Cook Murdoch
2 Jane Murdoch
Parents for both given as Jane Nicol & James Murdoch :)
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Hi Ballydw
Thanks .Without dates a bit of a problem. IF ,they are the same, it means James was probably born in Scotland (his descendants think he was Irish),and probably they were married there, and not in NZ. That they had two children before moving to NZ.?Possibly different people? Hope the marriage cert will shed some light.
Also ballydw, I found the official birth notice for Jane from the birth info you provided, and the surname is spelt with two L`s .NICOLL. When I put that into NZBMD nothing comes up. Nicol is spelt with one L for marriage, and children`s births.
On another family website I found a couple of Family Tree`s giving Jane`s birth as circa 1866 in Kilsyth Stirling, but both give different parents ,being-David Nicol & Christina(no maiden name).
So again hopefully the marriage cert (if it turns out to be for the correct family)may provide the answer.
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barrierexpress yes I think you will get the correct info from the marriage cert it is speculative otherwise. Lots of Nicol name in scotland. :)
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Hi,
I think the children found by ballydw are by a different couple, Scotland, Select Births and Baptisms, 1564-1950 has,
Jane MURDOCH
4 Oct 1861
Elgin, Moray, Scotland
Father: James MURDOCK
Mother: Jane NICOL
James Cook MURDOCH
23 Jun 1868
Elgin, Moray, Scotland
Father: James MURDOCK
Mother: Jane NICOL
Well it helps to rule them out :)
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I now have the marriage certificate, and can confirm the following.
They were married on Jan 5 1901 in the Registry office, Dunedin .her place of birth is given as Stirlingshire ,Scotland ,and mothers name is Margaret Sloan, and fathers name is John Nicol. This confirms the post by ballybw, and the record of birth I found that she was born in Kilsyth, and that the surname Nicol was incorrectly spelt(either in Scotland or New Zealand).Jane gives her age as 33 at time of marriage,(making her birth year 1861)but official birth record states she was born in 1865, so she was actually 29 when she married.As James was 40, maybe she wanted to be seen as older?
I confirm also that Janes parents were John Nicol, and Margaret Sloan.
James gives his age as 40 at time of marriage, and marriage certificate confirms he was born in Ballarat,Australia to James Murdoch and Ellen Pardy (not Purdy).
So, a successful conclusion, and thanks to everyone that helped.
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great result for you barrierexpress :)
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Jane gives her age as 33 at time of marriage,(making her birth year 1861)but official birth record states she was born in 1865, so she was actually 29 when she married.As James was 40, maybe she wanted to be seen as older?
If Jane was born in 1865 then she was aged 36 when she married in 1901.
Debra :)
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Thanks Debra,
My maths obviously leave a lot to be desired.
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Hi
I am related to James Henry Murdoch and Jane Nicol. They are the parents of my grandmother, Minnie Anne Murdoch who died in 1964.
A member of our family has had a genetic DNA test.
We read on this site that someone had a photo of Jane Nicol which we would be very keen to see.
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Hi
Minnie is my G.Grandmother, and this thread is very interesting! I wonder if James’ birth in Ballarat and the family’s subsequent move to Dunedin, NZ, is linked to gold. This was found in Gabriel’s Gully, near Dunedin, in 1860 and a lot of miners left the Victorian goldfields in Australia for NZ.
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Welcome to Rootschat Enzedda.
Hopefully the others related to this Family will answer you soon.
I have no idea how far people have gone back with this Tree but as James was the only child born Victoria, yes they may have been chasing gold.
Marriage Victorian BMD
MURDOCH James
PURDEY Ellen
Reg. year 1860 Reg. no 3863
Births Reg NZ
1867/10326 Murdoch Bridget Parents Ellen*/James
With Parents as Helen/James;
1882/842 Murdoch Robert
1880/1782 Murdoch William Henry
1876/9205 Murdoch Emily Mary
1878/8393 Murdoch John Philip
1873/19172 Murdoch Alexander
1865/18765 Murdoch Helen
1864/17760 Murdoch Ann
Trish :)
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Hoping this photo loads. Minnie is on the left, James and Jane on the right.
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I am retired now and looking at family history as you do and came across this photo. Minnie Murdoch is my Grandmother and this is the first photo I have seen of her and info I have seen of her. Can you tell me who the other two relatives are in the photo? I would inform on Jane Nichol, my Great, Great Grandmother, Minnie's Mother and her family? Do you have other photos as well of any family? I believe James Murdoch and Jane Nichol came to New Zealand with family members? Do you know how and where they are now? Sorry so may questions that have not been answered for years and so excited to see some information!
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Can I also ask the names of those in photo from left to right please! thanks
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Hi All
Following your info and can add for Jane Nicol (Jeanie)
Have found she boarded the steamship Florida at Glasgow with a family of the name Nicol. Ages given show it is probably her eldest brother William 28 and his wife Maggie23 and their 2 children Maggie 3 and Wiiliam 1. Written below is Jeanie 17.
They arrived at Port Chalmers in March 1884.
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Minnie is my GGmother. Have had a DNA test done and have Chinese heritage which seems to come through her. I suspect James was not her father. Has anyone else had similar results?