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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: mineyours+ours on Wednesday 22 January 14 11:05 GMT (UK)

Title: Deciphering Headstone
Post by: mineyours+ours on Wednesday 22 January 14 11:05 GMT (UK)
Hi,  Not sure if this is the correct place but can anyone improve on the transcribing of this headstone please.  It is for George Fisher who was a doctor in Bawtry, Yorkshire.Burial for him was in Misson 25.6.1847. A later son George was also a doctor and George's (Jnr) two sons were doctors. Any in brackets I'm unsure of. So far I have:
SACRED
TO THE MEMORY OF
GEORGE FISHER 
(   ) (   )?
WHO DEPARTED THIS LIFE
JUNE THE (21) 1847
AGED 36 YEARS
ALSO OF GEORGE (SON OF)
THE (SAME) GEORGE FISHER
AND JANE HIS WIFE
WHO DEPARTED THIS LIFE
SEPTEMBER THE 22ND 1843
AGED 4 MONTHS
ALSO OF GEORGE FORBES FOW SON OF
GEORGE FISHER PHYSICIAN AND SURGEON
 AND MARY ANN HIS WIFE AND GRANDSON
OF THE ABOVE  (    )?
WHO DIED ( the bottom three lines are a mystery to me but  the person who took the photo said on the last George all he could read was ‘31 June aged so many weeks’).

Any improvement gratefully received.  M
Title: Re: Deciphering Headstone
Post by: lizdb on Wednesday 22 January 14 12:51 GMT (UK)
Line 9 is " the said George Fisher"
Title: Re: Deciphering Headstone
Post by: lizdb on Wednesday 22 January 14 12:54 GMT (UK)
Bottom line includes " interred here "
Title: Re: Deciphering Headstone
Post by: Bookbox on Wednesday 22 January 14 13:01 GMT (UK)
line 4: SURGEON of BAWTRY
Title: Re: Deciphering Headstone
Post by: josey on Wednesday 22 January 14 13:03 GMT (UK)
Bottom line 'interred here' as per lizdb then 'November 22nd 187?'.

Title: Re: Deciphering Headstone
Post by: mineyours+ours on Thursday 23 January 14 00:45 GMT (UK)
Thank you everyone, much appreciated. You can see it after it is pointed out.
I was wondering, on the 18th line where I have started 'WHO DIED', the word at the end of the line seems to finish with 'AND'.  Now I know George came to New Zealand for a short time and I wasn't sure exactly when or whether he was married at that stage or not.  What if he was and on the return the baby died. I know burials happened at sea but my husband made the suggestion maybe they could put a tiny baby in a box with salt? (sounds gruesome but his father was a doctor). I'm wondering this also as on the next line it looks like 'June' but josey has 'interred here' 'November'.  I have no idea whether this sort of thing happened or not maybe someone else would know?   M
Title: Re: Deciphering Headstone
Post by: mare on Thursday 23 January 14 01:02 GMT (UK)
I think 3rd line from bottom reads

WHO DIED AT THE (HEA----) NEW ZEALAND

and date and year at the end

22 NOVEMBER 1872
 


Title: Re: Deciphering Headstone
Post by: mare on Thursday 23 January 14 01:08 GMT (UK)


and date and year at the end

22 NOVEMBER 1872
 



 :-\ Perhaps not as for June it looks a distinct 3 for the year (1873)
Title: Re: Deciphering Headstone
Post by: mineyours+ours on Monday 10 March 14 00:53 GMT (UK)
Back with enough info to complete I think.  I have just found some new info on line showing the babies father was a doctor in Thames in New Zealand in 1872 which sent me looking at the births and deaths in New Zealand.
I found the birth of baby George Forbes Fow in 1872 and his death in 1873 aged 42 weeks so the bottom lines would be
'who died at the Thames, New Zealand
(on the) 31st June 1873 aged 42 weeks
and (  ) interred here November 22nd 187 ?

'at the' Thames sounds strange as we just say Thames' but I have found other articles which also say at the Thames.
Not sure what would fit in the last lot of brackets before 'interred'? 
It was pretty 'raw' in Thames at that time and I'm thinking this might have been possibly the last straw to sent them back to England, but I can't find any travel info. 
So any guesses what the final year for being interred might have been? (travel time from NZ to England?)

Any further suggestions most gratefully received. M.
Title: Re: Deciphering Headstone
Post by: mare on Monday 10 March 14 09:27 GMT (UK)
 "at the" Thames New Zealand makes it sound more like the river! but perhaps just meaning it was the NZ Thames.
The word before interred in last line ends with s, so was?
and I'd go for 1873 for the year which would allow enough months for the journey.

 
Title: Re: Deciphering Headstone
Post by: mineyours+ours on Monday 10 March 14 10:27 GMT (UK)
Yes, sounds good to me.  Thanks for your help Mare, much appreciated.
Re 'at the Thames'.  You really do need to look back when researching don't you.  The terms and words can be so different to what we use now. I kept looking and it didn't fit but when I did some research on it I found it is a term used quite often in relation to Thames. So fitted perfect!
Thanks, M.
Title: Re: Deciphering Headstone
Post by: Tussock on Wednesday 17 September 14 23:30 BST (UK)
Hi,  Not sure if this is the correct place but can anyone improve on the transcribing of this headstone please.  It is for George Fisher who was a doctor in Bawtry, Yorkshire.Burial for him was in Misson 25.6.1847. A later son George was also a doctor and George's (Jnr) two sons were doctors. Any in brackets I'm unsure of. So far I have:
SACRED
TO THE MEMORY OF
GEORGE FISHER 
(   ) (   )?
WHO DEPARTED THIS LIFE
JUNE THE (21) 1847
AGED 36 YEARS
ALSO OF GEORGE (SON OF)
THE (SAME) GEORGE FISHER
AND JANE HIS WIFE
WHO DEPARTED THIS LIFE
SEPTEMBER THE 22ND 1843
AGED 4 MONTHS
ALSO OF GEORGE FORBES FOW SON OF
GEORGE FISHER PHYSICIAN AND SURGEON
 AND MARY ANN HIS WIFE AND GRANDSON
OF THE ABOVE  (    )?
WHO DIED ( the bottom three lines are a mystery to me but  the person who took the photo said on the last George all he could read was ‘31 June aged so many weeks’).

Any improvement gratefully received.  M

 Hi there I may be able to help you  I blew it up 600%  the following is what I could read


Sacred
To the Memory of George Fisher
Surgeon Bu????rd
Who departed this life
June the 21st 1847
aged 36 years
also George son of the said George Fisher
and Jane his wife
who departed this life September the 22nd 1843
aged 4 months
also of George Forbes Fow Fisher
Son of George Fisher Physician and Surgeon
and Mary Ann  his Wife and Grandson of the above
who died at the Thames New Zealand 31st of June 1873
and was interred here November 1873

So it appears that in the plot are : George senior died 1847
George his son who died aged 4 months in 1843
and George Forbes Fow Fisher who died in Thames NZ in June 1873 aged 42 weeks and was interred in November  of the same year
Cheers
Title: Re: Deciphering Headstone
Post by: crowsfeet on Thursday 18 September 14 01:20 BST (UK)
Hi

The voyages could be anything from 85 - 100 days with good conditions. :)

Crowsfeet
Title: Re: Deciphering Headstone
Post by: aus*jen on Thursday 18 September 14 05:18 BST (UK)
  I am wondering if 31st June could be correct as June has only 30 days ???

Regards,
Jen.
Title: Re: Deciphering Headstone
Post by: mare on Thursday 18 September 14 11:31 BST (UK)
  I am wondering if 31st June could be correct as June has only 30 days ???

Regards,
Jen.

excellent point! ... it is a bit too obscured to read the actual date off the photograph of the stone, other than June 1873  :-\  perhaps OP/M can work out from the birth of baby George Forbes Fow Fisher in 1872 and add the 42 weeks.

added, I didn't see the death under those names here to calculate the actual date  https://www.bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/search/
Title: Re: Deciphering Headstone
Post by: Treetotal on Thursday 18 September 14 11:44 BST (UK)
I saw it as 4/12 weeks?....???? 22nd 1873
Carol
Title: Re: Deciphering Headstone
Post by: mare on Thursday 18 September 14 11:48 BST (UK)
I just had a slightly extended search https://www.bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/search/

found it and date of death is 1st June 1873
Title: Re: Deciphering Headstone
Post by: mare on Thursday 18 September 14 11:52 BST (UK)
I saw it as 4/12 weeks?....???? 22nd 1873
Carol

It's not an easy one to read but further information was found, reply #8 to say birth was found and death at 42 weeks,
added, confirmed with the bdm lookup just now 1873/7718  George Forbes F Fisher aged 42 weeks
Title: Re: Deciphering Headstone
Post by: Treetotal on Thursday 18 September 14 12:01 BST (UK)
Nice one Mare  8)
Carol
Title: Re: Deciphering Headstone
Post by: mare on Thursday 18 September 14 19:21 BST (UK)
 Unsure if date of 1872 birth is already known  :-\

11th August 1872

1872/18176 Fisher George     George     Mary Ann     (bdm NZ)
Title: Re: Deciphering Headstone
Post by: Tussock on Thursday 18 September 14 23:57 BST (UK)
 George and Mary Ann, married c 1870-71 , came to NZ  on the sailing ship "Caduceus" 1006 tons Cpt Roberts, sailed Gravesend for Auckland NZ on the 18th October 1871 arrived in Auckland NZ 2nd February 1872 Saloon Passengers Dr  and Mrs  Fisher  ( no Children) George was also the ships Superintendent Surgeon  for the voyage . ( source : Auckland Star 1872 and Daily Southern Cross (Auckland ) 1872 ( Papers Past ) , also ships to NZ passenger lists ,  at this stage I cant find  their departure. I also have a copy of the birth notice  for George Forbes Fow Fisher from the Daily Southern Cross 4th September 1872 reads: Fisher ; On August the 11th at Grahamtown, the wife of George Fisher Surgeon of a son . cant find a death notice .
From papers past I have established that George must have gone straight to Thames , in 1872-73 he was a Doctor - Surgeon in Pollen Street Thames and also a member of the Grahamstown Fire Brigade Cheers
Title: Re: Deciphering Headstone
Post by: Wiggy on Friday 19 September 14 00:44 BST (UK)
I noticed you said you be pleased with any improvement.  Here are two - one with face washed and one inverted for easier reading maybe.
Title: Re: Deciphering Headstone
Post by: Wiggy on Friday 19 September 14 00:44 BST (UK)
.Don't know what is going on - the file is not reading as too lasrge on my computer but is refusing to load.  Same size as other which has loaded. 

try again.

Is this any better I wonder - looks better on my computer but doubtful here.  :-\
Title: Re: Deciphering Headstone
Post by: mineyours+ours on Sunday 21 September 14 11:21 BST (UK)
Thank you everyone  :-*

The wonderful people of RootsChat do it again. 
Following is the transcription using births, deaths, travel time and newspaper entries from all you wonderful people and I don't think it could be improved upon:

SACRED
TO THE MEMORY OF
GEORGE FISHER 
SURGEON OF BAWTRY
WHO DEPARTED THIS LIFE
JUNE THE (21) 1847
AGED 36 YEARS
ALSO OF GEORGE SON OF
THE SAID GEORGE FISHER
AND JANE HIS WIFE
WHO DEPARTED THIS LIFE
SEPTEMBER THE 22ND 1843
AGED 4 MONTHS
ALSO OF GEORGE FORBES FOW SON OF
GEORGE FISHER PHYSICIAN AND SURGEON
 AND MARY ANN HIS WIFE AND GRANDSON
OF THE ABOVE
WHO DIED AT THE THAMES, NEW ZEALAND
ON THE 1ST OF JUNE 1873 AGED 42 WEEKS
AND WAS INTERRED HERE NOVEMBER 22ND 1873

My original research was of another ancestor who came to New Zealand and settled in the Thames area and through this gravestone have now found his cousin (George) and wife also came out to the same area  (where sadly their baby died) and also through the gravestone can see when they went back to England. Fantastic.

Many, many thanks, M.