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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Yorkshire (West Riding) => Topic started by: Maggie J on Sunday 12 January 14 23:33 GMT (UK)
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I know, from Wakefield register of deeds, that my ancestor John Tatham registered a memorial to his father, Joseph Tatham’s will in 1806, and that they lived at Withens at Cold Edge in Warley, Halifax, but I cannot find the will. I don’t know when or where either John or Joseph was born or their age at death so I can’t identify the correct family. I know there were a few Tatham families in the area buying and selling farms but I don’t think they are ‘my’ family.
As I have the name of the property I thought this might give me a clue so I have searched the registry of deeds for about 40 years previously (when I believe someone else owned the property) but I cannot find a record of the farm changing hands. I have thought about searching the land tax registers at Wakefield but am not sure what these will tell me. Can anyone suggest other records I could look at from this area in the late 18th century?
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For a will that early I would try the Borthwick institute of Historical Research which now part of the York University.
John
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Thanks for your reply John, I did try that. They found a Joseph Tatham will of around the same time, from the index of deeds, which helped me eliminate one family. They said they could do a further search but I would have had to pay for it, which I didn't want to do at the time. I may decide to go ahead with that option soon as I would really like to move on with this branch of the family tree.
Just spotted the typo!
Maggie
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Hi
It is a long time since I did any will research but if I recall the names are indexed in books which span a few years at a time and it would only take a few minutes to look for a name.
I think the books have been micro filmed and their are copies in some of the local history libraries and I think Huddersfield local history as a copy.
John
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The index of Wills held at the Borthwick is now available to search online at Origins.net. This is a pay to view site, 60 credits cost £6.50 (not sure how many views that gets you).
I understand the index can also be searched on a computer at the Borthwick but only when the Archive office is open. I would offer to do a look up for you but unfortunately I have not been able to visit much recently but someone else may be planning a visit.
Pinetree
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You can get 72 hours unlimited access to Origins (British and Wills) for £7. Well worth doing periodically. They have the indexes to the early Yorkshire wills at the Borthwick, as well as lots of other useful things.
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Thank you all for your replies. I think I will go back to the search for a will. I did not know about Origins so will certainly look at that. I have a theory about a possible family but no evidence so this site might help provide some.
Maggie
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I know, from Wakefield register of deeds, that my ancestor John Tatham registered a memorial to his father, Joseph Tatham’s will in 1806, and that they lived at Withens at Cold Edge in Warley, Halifax, but I cannot find the will. I don’t know when or where either John or Joseph was born or their age at death so I can’t identify the correct family. I know there were a few Tatham families in the area buying and selling farms but I don’t think they are ‘my’ family.
As I have the name of the property I thought this might give me a clue so I have searched the registry of deeds for about 40 years previously (when I believe someone else owned the property) but I cannot find a record of the farm changing hands. I have thought about searching the land tax registers at Wakefield but am not sure what these will tell me. Can anyone suggest other records I could look at from this area in the late 18th century?
Hello Maggie
Is this Deed Memorial Registration 1806 and the Will 1806?
Does the Deed registration say which Will Registry? Wills Proved at York had a number of Registries.
Here is one example (search 1800 -/+ 10 yrs, BUT ONLY ON THIS REGISTRY) ...
Prerogative & Exchequer Courts Of York Probate Index, 1688-1858
Joseph TATHAM, 1804, Carlton in Craven.
If you do decide to order it, the Probate bundle (a few pounds more) is always better (they sometimes give date of death etc and more accurate than the Register copy). On the colour PDF Will scans you can specify a white or a black border (the white border will save on black ink if you print the Will)
The YORK Wills (stored flat, not the Will bundles) at the Borthwick were scanned by one of the well known Pay per view sites (you might be able to see it online and save it at your local Library, or County Archive)?
https://search.findmypast.co.uk/results/world-records/prerogative-and-exchequer-courts-of-york-probate-index-1688-1858?firstname=joseph&firstname_variants=true&lastname=tatham&eventyear=1800&eventyear_offset=10
The Inland Revenue Registers YORK (Calendars) (Free, but large pdf downloads)
I am not sure if these (in the Inland Revenue IR series) are a complete YORK set of Calendar (Lists), or only over a certain value? Found these so far (links below).
You'll need the patience of a Saint to go through the YORK pdfs, because you get so far through (past the T), then they jump back to H, so every page needs a quick look for surnames starting T. You will also see the surname T is not in alphabetical order and they are separated into the different YORK Courts or Administration too.
Being in the IR Series, they might not be full lists?
IR 27/92 [YORK] 1796-1811 (TNA, Kew) http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C2612229
IR 27/93 YORK 1805-1811 (TNA, Kew) http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C2612230
If you register with TNA, their system usually keeps a list (a record of what you have looked at online).
If visiting TNA to see original documents you will need a READERS TICKET and formal PROOF of ID, who you are and where you live.
Some Probate Links
This site has many links regarding Wills, including Post Medieval
http://www.medievalgenealogy.org.uk/sources/probate.shtml
York Peculiars Probate Index, 1383-1883
https://search.findmypast.co.uk/results/world-records/york-peculiars-probate-index-1383-1883?_page=0&lastname=tatham
Mark
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Hi Mark,
I have been going back through my records!
The Deed memorial of Joseph Tatham's will was registered by John Tatham in Wakefield in 1806. It says that the farm Withens is now in the occupancy of John Tatham and his undertenants and that he is Joseph Tatham's youngest son, (the best clue I think). It doesn't say what the will actually said or name any other beneficiaries or say where the will is. I don't know why only John registered the will and it is making it hard to be sure about which family this is. Joseph seems to have died between 1798 when he was named in the Land Tax records as the owner, and 1799 when the 'executers of Joseph Tatham' were listed.
I did get a copy of the other Joseph's will (Joseph and Margaret Roberts) about five years ago which was useful for elimination purposes. Perhaps there is more on line now. Thank you for the will searching tips and I will certainly have a look at those links.
Tatham is not such a common name but there were a lot of them around between Halifax and Carlton in Craven in the 18th and 19th centuries. A lot of them were farmers and they all seemed to call their children by the same names of John, Joseph, Benjamin with Mary and Hannah for the girls, making it hard to distinguish between them. I am sure most were related and I would love to see them all linked up but I think I will stick to my own branch of the family for the time being!
Thanks for all the help,
Maggie
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The deeds memorial Wills index books are separate from the normal deeds index books kept at Wakefield deeds registers at the new Wakefield (WYAS) history centre (Near Kirkgate rail station)
Though I've found the info in these Will deeds are only an extract copy section concerning property in a full Will held at Borthwick in the original Will bundle (copy of original Will/bundle was £10 including postage)
Separate probate records of a Will also held at Borthwick may hold more/further info.
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Hi dodfarm, I found the memorial in the normal deeds index book at Wakefield. I wasn't aware of a separate deeds memorial wills index book there. I spoke to the staff at the time about where to proceed to search for the will and they suggested the Borthwick at York. They did a basic search but only found the 1804 one which was Joseph husband of Margaret. I have also searched on line through ancestry but not found anything.
I had not heard of a probate bundle and BushInn has also told me that these are not always in alphabetical order and that you have to go backwards and forward when searching so am planning to contact the Borthwick again and probably order one of these and do a search myself.
Thank you again. I have learnt a lot through all these posts.
Maggie
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I know, from Wakefield register of deeds, that my ancestor John Tatham registered a memorial to his father, Joseph Tatham’s will in 1806, and that they lived at Withens at Cold Edge in Warley, Halifax, but I cannot find the will.
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Hi Maggie
A paid search I had done at Wakefield to try and trace a property forward 70 years, led to a Deed Memorial registration, with reference to a Will, but the Will referred to, doesn't exist in a Will Probate Calendar.
The mention of the Will in the Deed Memorial book, indicating the farm has passed from the late Joseph Tatham and then, Son John Tatham had signed representing the Executors. Then possibly there will be a Deed Memorial Registration of when Joseph Tatham first acquired the farm?
With reference to going backwards and forwards searching, I was specifically refering to those Probate Calendars under YORK, held at TNA, Kew, which you can download from the links.
Mark
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Thanks again Mark,
I have searched for Joseph's acquisition of Withens farm as far as 1770 but could not find it - I think there is more searching to do if I can't find a will.
The farm is described as freehold in the memorial to the will so I think there must be a record of him either buying it or inheriting it somewhere, and I hope this will give some indication of his age and origins.
Thank you for the tip about the tip about the probate calendars.