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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Tyrone => Topic started by: MulhollandHart on Thursday 09 January 14 18:41 GMT (UK)
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To see if you can see my great grandfather marriage to my great grandmother
William James Stinson, in Dungannon in 1915 to a Stinson. Sorry this is all I have.
They had a son Samuel James Somerville born 1922 in Dungannon.
Help gratefully received.
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Hi,
Not sure if you made an error in your posting but I can find a marriage of William James Somerville to Eliza STEENSON in 1915 in Dungannon Second Presbyterian Church.
Regards
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sorry, no Stinson to a Stinson
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could be, Stinson is on the birth certificate but names sometimes were spelt differently. I am waiting for the copy of the birth certificate of my grandfather and it has Stinson but waiting on the rest of the info.
I know he had 2 sisters. Is there any other information?
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So this is probably the Steenson you mentioned
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Tyrone/Castlecaulfield/Drumreany__a___b_/867158/
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Sorry mistypes my great grandfather surname. It was Somerville.
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Hi,
The census information which you found may be correct but be wary. The marriage which I found took place in a Presbyterian Church and the census Steensons were Roman Catholics. In case you are correct there was a marriage of a James Steenson to a Jane Henry in 1894 in Dungannon Roman Catholic Church.
Regards
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Good point, however their some also married a Catholic my Grandmother was Catholic and my grandfather CofI. So still no certainties just more questions. Pants
On the look up where do you use to see it, Is there any more information?
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Hi,
I will send you a PM.
Regards
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OK so Ive looked at roots Ireland and did a search for the marriage cert putting in all the variables I can find.
James William Somerville
Eliza Steenson/Stinson
Father names William Stinson
With this I got 1 record returned.
Looks good possibly. What do you think?
From there I have looked at the census records and found only one record that seems to fit
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Tyrone/Crossdernot/Kerrib/1735845/
Am I jumping the gun or is my logic sound?
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Also tinkering around with searches I have found William James's fathers name is John Somerville but have found 2 possibles for this.
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Hi,
Your reasoning looks O.K. but a copy of the marriage certificate would confirm the father's name and more importantly show where the bride was residing before marriage. With a bit of luck it may have been her father's house. Xerox copies of the certificate can be had from Roscommon for four euros. See http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=599538.0 Rather than give credit card details I included a 5 euro note with the form. I got my certificate in about a week.
Regards
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King, your help wanted again please
Ive just got the birth cert for ,my granddad through and confirmed the father is William James and mother Eliza, so now waiting on marriage certificate. The cert says the father is from Corkhill.
This is the
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search/results.jsp?census_year=1911&surname=somerville&firstname=william&county=&townland=corkhill&ded=&age=&sex=&search=Search&relationToHead=&religion=&education=&occupation=&marriageStatus=&birthplace=&language=&deafdumb=&marriageYears=&childrenBorn=&childrenLiving=
Census record I have found BUT
which William is it. The father is 36 so entirely possibly the father in 1922 with a second marriage and the second is 5 so would be 16 in 1922 so again a possibility but unlikely to be marring in 1915. BUT on the census it says he can read and write but on the birth he has a mark. bit odd.
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And where is Corkhill, when I look up on googlemaps I get a place in Eire but the census says Crossdernot which doesn't come up on googlemaps. So confusing
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Hi,
The sean ruad site, see http://www.thecore.com/seanruad/ shows five townlands called Corkhill in Co Tyrone. They are in the parishes of Clogher, Kildress, Kilskerry, pomeroy and Corkhill Demense in the parish of Clogher.
Regards
Added - Change "Must match exactly" to "Anywhere in field".
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Hi,
Did a bit more digging and the couple you mentioned in 1911 state that they had been married for ten years. I think that this may be the William James Somerville who married Mary Smith in 1901 in Pomeroy Presbyterian Church, Dungannon District.
Regards
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I found them and the two families I thought seem to be the right ones.
However, confused as to where the places mentioned in todays time as I cant find on google.
As what is a Apostle doctorine?
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Also I was looking to find the second Presbyterian church but can't find it. Ideas are welcome
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Hi,
Can't help with the location of parishes in Co. Tyrone or the history of churches. However if you google Apostles Doctrine you will get answers.
Regards
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And where is Corkhill, when I look up on googlemaps I get a place in Eire but the census says Crossdernot which doesn't come up on googlemaps. So confusing
Crossdernot is the D.E.D. (District Electoral Division) for that census & nothing to do with a map location.
Also I was looking to find the second Presbyterian church but can't find it. Ideas are welcome
Which 'second Presbyterian church'? You can use this site to find churches in Co. Tyrone-
http://historyfromheadstones.com/index.php?tyrone
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Thank you all so much for your help. On the marriage certificate it just says SECOND DUNGANNON PRESBYTERIAN PARISH OF DRUMGLASS which doesn't seem to be on that list or anywhere else.
I was trying to look up the pension records too, which search place should I use to check because I have having one of those 'I'm not very clever' moments with this search
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Second Dungannon no longer exists. The church was built in 1823 but it was united with First Dungannon in 1928.
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Hi,
I am not aware of pension records having an on-line site.
Regards
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Old age pension applications for early 1900s (1908- ?) are online on Ancestry- if you don't have a subscription then check to see if your local library does:
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/search/db.aspx?dbid=48493
Also on this pay site- http://www.ireland-genealogy.com/
PRONI, Belfast also have microfilmed the records.
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Thank you both, it's lovely to have someone to ask :D
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The Griffiths valuation maps are accessible again on the proni so have found the places, they are all within a few miles of each other. Yeah. Can now point to it and say they where my maternal family comes from
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Happy to help.
Regards
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William James Somerville's first wife, Mary Smyth, was was my great grand aunt.
Mary's parents immigrated to Canada in the late 1860's and left her in the care of her father's uncle, James Smyth. Mary lived with James until he died in 1899, and she inherited most of his estate. Two years later, she married William and they had five children. Mary died in 1913.
William married Eliza Steenson in 1915 and they had one son, Samuel James Somerville in 1922.
Then, my tree just stops. I cannot find marriage or death records on any of the 6 children, except possibly one son Robert John Somerville who died in Dungororan in 1929.
I would love to fill in some of the blanks in my tree. MulhollandHart, is your family tree online to see?
Thanks in advance,
Steve
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Long time no speak. Hope you are well.
Ive been looking at this part of the tree and wondering what happened to them all. my branch and yours. Curious.
Anyhow, Mary Smith (Smyth) what was her parents names? James is her Uncle or the uncle of the dad, Who were her parents. Do we know why they left her behind? was she the only one to be left or were there more. Seems sad to leave a little baby behind.
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Mary Smyth was born to Hugh Smyth and Jane Booth in 1864. Her birth record was later commented on in the margin (see attached photo): "This child's father has migrated to America. The uncle has the care of the child."
Hugh immigrated to Canada in 1865 and Jane in 1868. I am guessing that they did not bring little Mary along, as they might have been uncertain about their lives in the new world.
"Uncle" is not well-defined here. Is it Mary's uncle, or the uncle of one of Mary's parents?
1) James Smyth was born in 1820. Hugh was born in 1841, and his siblings were born in 1843 & 1849. I doubt that James and Hugh were brothers, because that would mean their parents had children over a 30 year period with a 21 year gap between the first and second child.
2) Hugh's father was Robert Smyth. Robert & James were tenant farmers in Corkhill in the 1820's & 1830's. I believe that Robert & James were brothers.
3) According to civil birth registrations, James & Mary Smyth never had a daughter named Mary, yet James left most of his estate to his "daughter Mary," who lived with him in Corkhill. This Mary was born in 1864.
So, James was most likely Hugh's uncle.
My next goal in researching the Smyth branch is to find a grave marker for James (died 1899) and his wife Mary McKinley (died 1871). They seemed have been "well-off" enough to have purchased a grave marker or two. There are some attractive cemeteries near Corkhill, I just need a local cemetery enthusiast to do my search.
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How did they get on in Canada?
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My grand father was Charles Sommerville Lucas, born circa 1882 in Liverpool.
Mother a McCoy from Fivemiletown and father John Lucas, born circa 1850. I wonder if my grandfather was a cousin?
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Quick possibly, who were the grandparents? Do you know.
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No sorry, I have not gone further back than John Lucas and his wife Miss McCoy.
Have you searched for your missing people in Liverpool?
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Mary's parents immigrated to Canada in the late 1860's and left her in the care of her father's uncle, James Smyth. Mary lived with James until he died in 1899, and she inherited most of his estate. Two years later, she married William and they had five children. Mary died in 1913.
William married Eliza Steenson in 1915 and they had one son, Samuel James Somerville in 1922.
Then, my tree just stops. I cannot find marriage or death records on any of the 6 children, except possibly one son Robert John Somerville who died in Dungororan in 1929.
William James & Mary Somerville in 1911 with their 5 children-
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Tyrone/Crossdernot/Corkhill/864752
Births (which will help in searching further):
Sarah E.E. Somerville 4 Nov.1902 Dungannon district (mother Smith)
Florence Isabella Somerville 5 June 1904 Dungannon dist. (mother Smith)
William James 14 Apr.1906 Dungannon dist. (mother Smyth)
Robert John 17 Nov.1907 Dungannon dist. (mother Smyth)
Mary V.K. registered July/Sept.1910 Dungannon dist.
William's Will might mention his surviving children-
Somerville William James of Corkhill Rock county Tyrone farmer died 3 November 1946 Probate Londonderry 16 February to Richard Somerville and Joseph Benson farmers. Effects £106 5s.
This is 'uncle' James Smyth-
Probate of the Will of James Smyth late of Corkhill County Tyrone Farmer who died 28 December 1899 granted at Armagh to Thomas MacGregor Greer Land Agent. Will mentions son Robert (living in America) and daughter Mary (living with him).
http://apps.proni.gov.uk/DCAL_PRONI_WillsCalendar_IE/WillsSearch.aspx
Mary Smyth in 1901-
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Tyrone/Crossdernot/Corkhill/1735734
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Online trees provide a bit more detail-
Florence Isabella Somerville died 1980 Corkhill
Sarah Elizabeth Evaline Somerville
William James Smyth Somerville
Mary Victoria Kathleen Somerville
Gravestone for William James Somerville & wife Eliza-
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=128716980&ref=acom
My next goal in researching the Smyth branch is to find a grave marker for James (died 1899) and his wife Mary McKinley (died 1871). They seemed have been "well-off" enough to have purchased a grave marker or two. There are some attractive cemeteries near Corkhill, I just need a local cemetery enthusiast to do my search.
Church of Ireland keeps burial register so even if there is no headstone there might be an entry in the register- which will probably only list name, date of burial & residence.
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Any ideas where to search the Church of Ireland burial registers online or in person?
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Not likely to be online but they are probably in local custody so you'd have to contact the church.