RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Antrim => Topic started by: anne_p on Tuesday 07 January 14 14:39 GMT (UK)
-
I am trying to find a death of Margaret Kissock, maiden name McDonald.
She had an illegitimate daughter, born in Galgorm on 3 Jan 1871
Margaret ( a spinster) married Charles Kissock ( a widower) on 11 Jan 1884 in Ballymena.
They are found living at 32 Tanneybrake, Kells on the 1901 census.
Husband Charles Kissock died in 1907 but I can find no trace of his widow after this date.
The only thing I have to go on, is that her father was a farmer called Hugh McDonald and her age at 1901 is recorded as 50yrs. YOB circa 1851 which would make her about 20yrs old when her daughter was born.
I believe her father was the Hugh McDonald of Newhills who died in 1891 leaving a will.
I have since found the death info for his wife , Ann McDonald, and located the two daughters named on his will. These girls appear to be more than 20yrs younger than Margaret?
His will also mentions a married son and a married daughter but fails to name them.
I cannot find any births/baptisms for Margaret, Sarah or Lizzie McDonald to confirm that they were siblings.
In 1911, there is no trace of Margaret Kissock, but her daughter, who married and was living in Glasgow, has temporarily moved back to Antrim, and is found living at 42 Tanneybrake with her Scots born children
( They returned to Glasgow before 1914)
When this daughter married in Glasgow in 1893, she fibbed about her parentage to hide her illegitimacy.
She claimed that her own father was Hugh McDonald, (deceased farmer) and her mother was named as Margaret McDonald maiden name "Miller" who had since remarried to... Charles Kissock.
Her 1939 Scottish death cert has the correct info.
No Father listed. Mother:Margaret McDonald (deceased) later married to Charles Kissock
EDIT:
I don't know if Margaret Miller was a fabricated name or potentially the name of her grandmother?
-
Have you ruled out the Death of a Margaret Kissock aged c65yrs in 1905 in the Ballymena area? I am not seeing the name/age combination in the area for 1901, so perhaps your Margaret's age at 1901 census was being a bit 'economical' and this is her.
-
Thanks Scotmum,
I haven't ruled out anything at the moment and the 1905 death is possibly my missing ancestor.
Her daughter was about 13yrs old when her mother married and I would guess that she was raised within her mothers new marriage until she left Ireland and may have viewed Charles Kissock as a father.
I have been comparing the 1901 census of Tanneybrake to the 1911 census and have come to the conclusion that the daughter was residing in her mothere's former home rather than a different house in the same street.
I think that house numbers allocated do not refer to a "door" number, but the numbers used by the enumerator in each census year to locate a property.
Many of the 1901 families still live there at 1911 but none seem to have retained the original number.
The thing I can't quite gets to grips with is this...
If her mother did die in 1905, followed by her stepfather in 1907, how come the daughter did not return to the house until 1910/11?
I have planned a trip to NI in May and do intend to spend a day at Proni to look at some things.
No doubt be back on these boards around April asking for advice !
EDIT:
I have just had a thought, I wonder if the youngest child on the 1911 census was born in Ireland rather than Glasgow. This would make more sense!
BTW. Husband/father of this family worked on the ships running between Glasow and Belfast.
-
I can confirm that the numbers in the 2 censuses were just the enumerators private numbering system (different in each census) and do not relate to any real house numbers or postal address. There were no house numbers on rural properties at that time.
The revaluation records show Maggie Campbell arriving on plot 34c in Tawnybrack, in 1909. That was a small house, shop and garden on the farm occupied by John Caldwell. She is also shown on 34b next door (another house and small garden) and appears to have left in 1914.
http://applications.proni.gov.uk/dcal_proni_val12b/RelatedVolume.aspx?4965
You would be able to locate 34b & 34c using the maps on Griffiths Valuation (when the site comes back up).
-
Thank You very much Elwyn.
I have always found the members on the Irish Boards extremely knowlegeable and helpful.
I will certainly check out the link
I knew that this family were back in Glasgow by 1914 because I have the birth record of their youngest daughter who was born in Glasgow in Oct 1914.
The children also married in Glasgow from 1920 onwards
The 12yr old child named Jane on the 1911 return was my husband's grandmother.
Thankies
Anne
-
Thank you again Elwyn,
I had forgotten all about the revision books
I am re- learning how to navigate the site and can see Maggie Campbell at plots 3b and 3c at 1909
Did you notice the name above Maggie and crossed out from plot 3c ?
Charles Cusack!
I fully expect that this is her stepfather, Charles Kissock!
-
Excellent. Then you know that has to be your family OK.
-
Hi
My Galgorm McDonalds moved to Glasgow too, around 1868, first to Maryhill then to Dennistoun. Just thinking maybe we have a connection there.
I'm heading over there next week but I'm beginning to think I should have spent the day at PRONI rather than gravehunting in Ballymena/Galgorm.
Best of luck with your search :)
-
Do you happen to have any idea if Charles Kissock in Kells might be related to my gr-gr-grnadmother Margaret Minn nee Kissock who is there in the 1911 census?
I've been trying to find her origins but my only clue thus far is that it looks like sometime after her husband died in 1901 she moved herself remaining children from Cross, Ballyclug to Kells. Perhaps to be nearer family?
-
Sadly, I have no idea if Margaret Minn MS Kissock was related to Charles Kissock.
Charles was born in Antrim around 1829 and according to his 2nd marriage of 1884, his father was a farmer named George Kissock.
-
Margaret was born around 1847 (based on age in census reports). Unfortunately that's as much as I know of her.
Thanks for getting back to me so quickly.
-
Bookdragon,
I was looking at the info that I have on Charles Kissock and I have reason to think that he may be related to Margaret Minn Ms Kissock.
I looked at the Minn/Kissock marriage.
James and Margaret married on the 18 Nov 1874 in Ballymena.
Margaret was a widow. Her previous married name was BEGG.
Her father's name was James Kissock ( farmer) and the witnesses were Joseph and Elizabeth Kissock.
PM me if you wish a copy of this cert
I also found your tree on Ancestry.
My family who lived in Kells at 1911 moved back to Glasgow but a daughter later married and returned to the area. Her husband was friend/neighbour who appeared with his family in Kells at 1911
His last name was ESLER!
-
Thank you so much.
I PM-ed, but wanted to put it on the board too. I don't know if the Esler in Kells is related to my Eslers, but it seems likely. My gr-grandmother Esler was the eldest of 16 children and her parents were both Eslers. Unfortunately, I know more about the ones who emigrated the US, Canada and Australia than those that stayed in Ireland.
-
Bookdragon
Can you PM your email address to me so I can send you the marriage cert?
I think this may be your James Kissock at 1901
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Ballyclug/Tully/939186/
His widowed daughter at 1911?http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Ballyclug/Tully/122589/
I also noice that on the 1911 census there is a son in law called David Hamilton
A man called David Hamilton of Tully was also the informant to the death of Charles Kissock in 1907
-
I don't know about Hamiltons, but my John Esler of Ballyclug was the son of Elizabeth Johnston.
-
Hello anne_p (and all)!
My name is Joseph, and I am the great-great grandson of Charles Rea/Wray, who was born 1888 in Kells, County Antrim, Northern Ireland (shown on his ship manifest to the US). A couple of years ago, I did some research at the Family History Centre in Salt Lake City, trying to figure out who Charles's parents were, and I discovered that their names were John Wray and Margaret McDonald, of County Antrim, Northern Ireland. Doing some more research, I found my Charles Rea on the Ireland census of 1901, living in Tannybrake, Kells, with Charles and Margaret (McDonald) Kissock – interestingly, the very Charles and Margaret Kissock discussed on this thread. Would you happen to have come across any Reas/Wrays or a Charles Rea/Wray in your research, or have heard of him?
From my research, I am beginning to believe that my Charles may have been the son of this Margaret, or at least he was a relative. I found it very interesting that the Margaret on this thread had an illegitimate daughter born in 1871 – according to my grandmother (Charles’s granddaughter), Charles and a sister were born illegitimately and, consequently, were ignored or treated differently by the family. It could very well be that this sister my grandmother was talking about is Margaret’s daughter born in 1871, although she would have been somewhat older than my Charles.
I would love to learn more about the Charles and Margaret (McDonald) Kissock discussed on this thread, as well as about the McDonald family in general, and Margaret’s daughter, if possible. Would love to know what you think about Charles being the son of Margaret too. If you would be interested in learning more about my Charles Rea/Wray, I would be willing to send you the information I have - just let me know!
I look forward to hearing from you, and learning more about this interesting family!
Best,
Joseph
PS1: I would also love to hear everyone's input, and would love to send information on my Charles Rea/Wray and family, if it would be of interest! Have a wonderful day!
PS2: I also find it very, very interesting that Hamiltons are discussed on this thread - my Charles Rea/Wray married Elizabeth Hamilton, born in 1879 in Ballyclug, the daughter of Samuel Hamilton and Ellen Leitch, and her siblings names were Margaret, possibly Anna, possibly David, and maybe others (I need to look at my notes). Possibly related? Margaret moved to the US after Charles and Elizabeth immigrated, I think in 1914, with her husband, a Mr. Johnston (another name here).
-
Hi Joseph,
Could you please add another couple of posts to this thread so that I can send you a private message.?
Since my original posting on this thread, I have gleaned a huge amount of info on this family
12 yr old Charles Rae on the 1901 census was not the son of Margaret Kissock Ms McDonald but, I have found definitive info which is relevant.
I am almost certain of his actual identity !
EDIT:
I am 100% certain of his identity
I also know how the name of Johnston fits with the family.
Anne
-
Hi anne_p and all! This is very exciting. Here is a little information I have on Charles if you would like to read about him. According to his ship manifest (he immigrated to the US in 1906), he was a butler, he left from Liverpool, he had previously lived in Tanneybrake, Kells, he was born in Kells, and he was going with his wife Elizabeth to Kellogg, Jasper County, Iowa. They did live there for a while (US censuses), including Rock Creek, in the same county. Charles lived to be in his nineties...he died in 1985. He moved to Ithaca, New York (sometime in the 1940s), where he did some farming...my mother remembers going to see his potatoes.
Here is Charles on the 1910, 1920, and 1930 US censuses (you can view for free on FamilySearch).
1910: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MGMC-F61
1920: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MDM8-KB8
1930: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XMJK-FG6
Here is Charles's obit: http://www.grinnell.lib.ia.us/Obit/W3/WrayCharles.pdf (some of the information is wrong - some relatives thought he was born in Belfast, and they got his year of immigration wrong too).
-
Hi Joseph,
I have already located most of the info relating to Charles in Iowa.
Can you please make one more post.... write anything.
Once you've made 3 posts, we can send private messages and exchange emails.
Do you have Charles's 1888 birth record?
Everything adds up now and yes, your family and mine do share the same Ancestry.
It's not exactly what you thought though! LOL
Anne
-
Here is some information I have on my Elizabeth Hamilton and family. She was born 28 November 1879 in Ballyclug, County Antrim, Northern Ireland, to Samuel Hamilton and Ellen Leitch. It looks like Samuel and Ellen had a few other children: William (born 27 March 1877 in Ballyclug), Ann (born 20 August 1874 in Glenwhirry), and possibly David. One sister is mentioned in Elizabeth's obit - Mrs. Margaret Johnston, who was married to James Johnston. Margaret and James lived in Ithaca, New York (Danby Town) when Charles and Elizabeth were living there too - Margaret and James came to the US in 1914, I think. Elizabeth died March 19 1962 in Ithaca, New York...my mother remembers visiting her when she was very, very little. Elizabeth farmed like her husband, and had with Charles a few children: Fred, Velma, David (I think he died when he was young), Paul, and Laird. I can try to come up with birth dates if of interest.
I remember my grandmother saying that people had thought Elizabeth was very beautiful when she was younger.
Here is Margaret and James Johnston in the 1940 US census (free): https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KQ3V-N2H
For some reason Charles and Elizabeth Wray aren't coming up in the 1940 US census but I had found them before so will try again later.
Here is Elizabeth's obit: http://www.grinnell.lib.ia.us/Obit/W3/WrayElizabeth.pdf
-
Hi anne_p, this is very exciting! Sorry, I don't have Charles's birth record for 1888 :( I'm so very excited to hear from you, I have been trying to learn more about him and his family for years! :) Talk soon, just getting ready (I'm on California time).
-
Ok Joseph,
I am sending you a Private Message containing my email address
Anne
-
Here is some more information too, if of interest, for Margaret Hamilton and James Johnston...they had a child, Charles Ray Johnston ("Wray Johnston"), born May 7 1917, in Rock Creek, Jasper, Iowa. Named after Charles Rae/Wray? Also, Margaret and James had another son, James S., that I know of...looks like he was born in Northern Ireland. The family is found living in Danby Town, New York in 1930 (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X4LG-KGT).
-
Hi Anne! Okay, I look forward to hearing from you! :)
-
Hello,
I have done extensive research into different lines of Beggs. I have an Elizabeth Beggs, father Robert, who married Joseph Kissock. Anne_p's posting in March 2015 said that there is a Margaret Kissock who married James Minn in 1874 in Ballymena and her previous married name was Begg. Could it have been Beggs?
I see that witnesses to the wedding were the aforementioned Elizabeth and Joseph Kissock. Could Margaret's first marriage have been to one of Elizabeth's brothers or at least a relative of Elizabeth's?
Elizabeth had brothers Andrew and James who both died before 1874.
Peggy