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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Dublin => Topic started by: chrisline on Friday 03 January 14 19:26 GMT (UK)
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Hi
I wonder if anyone can help? I am searching for any info on Bridget Crawley who lived in Athy but I believe was buried in Blackrock in the 1950s.
Thanks
Chris
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Is this the same Bridget Crawley you've mentioned in several other posts?
"I think Michael died about 1947 and Bridget about 1962. I don't know if they died in Athey."
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=183659.90
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Hi
Yes it is. I have had quite a lot of success thanks to Celtic Damsel on their time in Athy, however I still have no info about Bridget (May be Brigid?). Except what my mother in law has told me. That she died in Blackrock at the end of the 1950s or early 1960s. I haven't found any info about a marraige between Michael Crawley and Bridget so do not know her maiden name. Any info would be welcome.
Thanks
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The online civil registration index for Ireland only goes up to 1958- but have you already checked that for any likely deaths in the right area and right age?
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if Bridget died in Blackrock, Co. Dublin and was buried near then the place to search for a grave would be Dean's Grange - a couple of miles from Blackrock. You would need a date of death to search the Deans' Grange records
did she have family in the area ?
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forgot to mentioned earlier, there is more than one Blackrock. Are you sure it's the one in Dublin ? at least two more that I can think of one in Cork and the other I think near Dundalk
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Hi
I have looked online for any records of the marriage or her death but have drawn a blank. I understand that it was Blackrock in Dublin where she died. I don't know if she had any family or where she came from originally.
Thanks
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If she died after 1958 then her death will not be listed in the online registration index.
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I have looked online for any records of the marriage or her death but have drawn a blank. I understand that it was Blackrock in Dublin where she died. I don't know if she had any family or where she came from originally
Hi Chris
Regarding a death for Bridget, as mentioned above, if it was after 1958 then you won't find it online, you can request a search from the GRO in Roscommon. If she died in Blackrock, then the registration district would be Rathdown.
It is possible that she is buried in Deans Grange, but you do need a date of death in order to confirm that.
Regarding the Marriage, I don't see any real possibilities, It should probably have taken place between 1911 (Michael is single in the census) and 1921/22 when 2 sons are born but no sign that I can see of it, so in order to find her maiden name, and her origins, you would need to buy one of her children's birth certs.
Do you have the references for those ?
Again these can be ordered from the GRO in Roscommon for €4 each (I'm presuming you are not in Dublin where the above can be done at the GRO reading room in Werburgh Street)
I had a look in newspapers for a death notice for her and didn't find one but did turn up a few little bits.
A Mrs B Crawley of Athy attended a funeral in Navan in 1942 with her sister Mrs C Baker of Ardbraccan, Co Meath.
In 1939 Mrs M Crawley is running a 'machine made' knitwear business in William Street, Athy.
'Crawley's Bakery' at 44 William St is advertised for sale in 1947.
There is also a death notice for her son James H Crawley which differs from the information on the other thread - it states he died 22nd December and not 22nd May of 1937, aged 17.
Hope that helps - but you really do need to purchase some certs in order to get any further on this.
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the other post in the Kildare section mentioned Gerard Patrick Crawley born 1923, wonder if he could have switched his names around. If so maybe a cert for this 1922 birth would help :
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/F19Y-LQS
Crawley could get mixed up with Crowley, which could make searches for ths marriage difficult without knowing Bridgets maiden name.
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Hi
Many thanks to you all for your help and advice. I guess the only thing I can do is order a copy of Gerry's birth certificate.
Gerry moved to England and married a lady there. All his descendents are in England and he didn't talk much about his family in Ireland. He died nearly 20 years ago so I can not ask him.
Perhaps Mrs C Baker can give me a lead to Bridgets maiden name?
Thanks
Chris
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Hi Hasta
Do you know whose funeral B Crawley and her sister went to?
Thanks
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Hi Chris. Good question to ask !!
I see I got it wrong and B Crawley and C Baker were the sisters of the deceased man Thomas Newman. That could make her Bridget Newman :)
(but please do get a cert to double check - I don't want to send you off on a wild goose chase)
Full Text:
The funeral of the.late Mr. Thos. Newman, Ongenstown, Navan (whose death was announced in our last issue) took place on Saturday from Boyerstown Church to Blackchurch Cemetery and was very largely attended. Rev. J. McLoughlln, C.C, Bohermeen , officiated at the graveside. The chief mourners were: Messrs. James, Owen, - Christopher, and Thomas Newman (sons); Mrs. C. Fay, Dublin; Mrs. J. Fay, Boyerstown, and Miss L. Newman (daughters); Mr. John Newman (brother); Mrs. C. Baker, Ardbraccan, and Mrs. B. Crawley. Athy .(sisters); Mr. Ned Newman (grandson); Misses Moira, Nancy and Hilda Newman, Mrs. Cosgrave (nieces); Messrs. James and Petex Brady, Gerry Baker arid James Newman (nephews); Mrs. J. Newman, Mrs. O. Newman and Mrs. T. Newman (daughters-in-law); Messrs C. and J. Fay (sons-in-law); Messrs. O. Boylan, Peter Brady and Charles Baker (brothers-in-law).
EDIT: The Kildare Observer is free to search 1830-1935
http://archive.irishnewsarchive.com/Olive/APA/KCL.Edu/
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Thanks Hasta
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Hello....check your PM.
Mike.
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Hi
I have found the following:
Bridget Newman
Ireland, Civil Registration Indexes, 1845-1958 marriage: January 1919 / March 1919 Navan, Ireland
Name Bridget Newman
Event Type Marriage
Event Date Jan - Mar 1919
Event Place Navan, Ireland
Registration Quarter and Year Jan - Mar 1919
Registration District Navan
Age
Birth Year (Estimated)
Mother's Maiden Name
Volume Number 2
Page Number 733
GS Film number 101264
Digital Folder Number 004199366
Michael Crowley
Ireland, Civil Registration Indexes, 1845-1958 marriage: January 1919 / March 1919 Navan, Ireland
Name Michael Crowley
Event Type Marriage
Event Date Jan - Mar 1919
Event Place Navan, Ireland
Registration Quarter and Year Jan - Mar 1919
Registration District Navan
Age
Birth Year (Estimated)
Mother's Maiden Name
Volume Number 2
Page Number 733
GS Film number 101264
Digital Folder Number 004199366
Could be the couple I am interested in?
Perhaps I should ask a question on the Meath Board.
Chris
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No need to have started a new topic but I've posted a reply on the new one-
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=673078.msg5181597#msg5181597
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Found Bridget's death notice.
CRAWLEY (Navan) Dec. 14. 1962 at Meath County Infirmary, Bridget, widow of Michael Crawley, Athy and daughter of the late James and Mary Newman. Ongenatown, Navan. R.I.P. Remains will be removed to Bohermeen Church this (Saturday) eveaing at 7 o'c. Funeral arrangements later.
The 'later' arrangements only add that burial was at Blackchurch Cemetery, Dunderry, Navan
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Hi Hasta
Thanks for the info. So she was buried at Blackchurch not Black Rock as my Mother in Law remembered.
The info on her parents is very useful.
Chris
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Sorry to come in late on this. As you have discovered, Bridget is nee Newman and 'Mrs. C. Baker' is her sister, Annie Newman, who was married to Charles Baker of Ardbraccan (Michael J (Gerry) Baker's father)
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Bumpydog
Thanks for the info.
Are you related to the Newman family?
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Hi Chris,
Not directly. My partner is the daughter of the late Michael J (Gerry) Baker and Catherine (Doherty) and her paternal grandmother was Annie Newman (b: 29/12/1892). Annie Newman married Charles Baker. It was Annie's brother, Thomas, who was buried at Blackchurch cemetery in 1942. We are close family friends of some of his grandchildren.
As you probably now know, Bridget's father was James Newman and her mother Mary Flood. You can see their 1901 census sheet for Ongenstown, Ardbraccan here:-
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai001123614/
By the time of the 1911 census (http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai003076541/), she appears to have moved out.
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Bumpydog that makes your partner the second cousin of my wife. Bridget is her paternal grandmother.
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Have you done any research on Bridget's parents, James and Mary (Flood)? Short of getting copies of certificates, I am getting conflicting information about dates i.e. was he born in 1851 or 1861 and there is one marriage record from 1873 (ruling out an 1861 DOB) but a record of Wills shows James having died on the 27th Nov 1916 with John (son?) being granted effects.
The 1901/1911 census information doesn't help much as he declared himself to be 50 in 1901 yet 70 in 1911 (which would have meant a DOB of 1841!) and Mary 40/60, and Annie was declared as 8 in 1901 and 17 in 1911 (she was born 19th Dec 1892, so she would have been 18 in April 1911).
One fact/date that does seem correct is their marriage in 1873.
To further confuse, there were other James and Thomas Newmans in the area.
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Bumpydog.
I have not really tried to find out any more about Bridget's Parents as I was not sure I was on the right trail.
Do you live in Meath?
Have you got any pictures of Bridget or her family as my wife does not have any and it would be nice to see what they looked like.
My mother in law met Bridget several times, but she does not have any pictures of her.
Thanks
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Yes, we live in Meath. I'm beginning to regret widening the scope of this family tree (in particular, the Newmans and Rennicks).
Bridget's older brother, Thomas, had a son, Owen, who was married to Mary (Molly nee Hanley). Molly only passed away in 2012 aged 102 and is buried at Boyerstown Cemetery (headstone photo attached). There are several Newmans buried at Dunderry Cemetery (see attached).
I plan to visit the records office next week to check some certificates, as I'd like to confirm details for James/Mary and, hopefully, their parents.
From my findings, Bridget also had 3 other brothers, James, John and Michael and sisters Annie and Mary. I have sent an email overseas to Molly's son who, allegedly, has information relating to his ancestors.
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Bumpydog
Thanks for that.
We live in England, Bridget's Son emigrated here in the 1940s and met my mother in law in the early 50s. Bridget and her husband only had two children both sons. One died young and the other was my father in law who died about 20 years ago. So we had no way into my wife's irish family.
It would be good to know what you find out at the record office.
Am I right that Dunderry Cemetery and Black Church Cemetery (where Bridget and Thomas are buried) are two different places? Have you been to Black Church Cemetery?
Chris
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Blackchurch and Dunderry are two different cemeteries. Blackchurch is an older site (to the west of Dunderry - see photo) and Dunderry cemetery is to the east. If the weather is suitable, I will pop over to both tomorrow to see what I can find. They are only 10 minutes from here.
Quite by accident, I came across an Australian family tree of a John Newman (Bridget's uncle) and it detailed both James/Mary's parents (Michael b: abt 1804 and Mary (nee Brien) b: unknown ) and their parents Michael (b: 1759) and Mary (b: 1752). I have yet to corroborate any of this info elsewhere.
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OK, it appears that there was an error on that Australian tree. James Newman's father (Bridget's paternal grandfather) was Thomas Newman and not Michael.
Regarding Blackchurch cemetery, I didn't have to traipse around it, as a local historian had a transcript of the headstone engraving and it filled in some missing dates on my tree. There are four headstones for the Newmans in Blackchurch (also called Meadstown or Clonmacduff cemeteries). Here are the transcripts (my comments in brackets)....
8) NEWMAN no date – Small stone with peaked top and cross on a mount. “ERECTED BY THOMAS NEWMAN OF ONGENSTOWN IN MEMORY HIS AUNTS ELLEN CARTY AND ANNE NEWMAN”. R I P & W. RENNICKS at bottom.
9) NEWMAN 1917-1960 – Ringed cross with flaming heart in centre of a domed stone and a raised frame around inscription. “ERECTED BY THOMAS NEWMAN (Bridget's brother) ONGENSTOWN IN LOVING MEMORY OF HIS WIFE FANNY WHO DIED 10TH JAN. 1917 AGED 40 YEARS. THEIR SON PATRICK DIED THE 24TH JANy 1922. THE ABOVE THOMAS NEWMAN DIED THE 12 FEBy 1942 AGED 68 Yrs. R I P at centre bottom, GERRERD on left bottom and NAVAN on right.
32) NEWMAN 1965 & 66 – A modern grey stone with IHS at top and a cross on each side of the inscription. Curb around the grave. “ERECTED BY MICHAEL NEWMAN IN LOVING MEMORY OF HIS WIFE ROSE DIED 16TH NOV. 1966. HIS SISTER KITTY DIED 3rd OCT. 1965. ALSO HIS PARENTS R I P”. Newman at bottom and RENNICKS HIGH ST. TRIM.
37) NEWMAN 1862-1960 – This stone has a rounded top with IHS in the centre. “ERECTED BY JAMES NEWMAN (Bridget's father) IN LOVING MEMORY OF HIS MOTHER MARY NEWMAN (Brien?) WHO DIED 6th JUNE 1862. ALSO HIS FATHER THOMAS NEWMAN WHO DIED 7TH OCT. 1884. PETER (Son?) DIED 17th MARCH 1891 AGED 5 YEARS. PATRICK (Son?) DIED 26th FEB. 1898 AGED 21 YEARS. HIS DAUGHTER MRS BRADY (probably Mary Newman) DIED 25th DEC 1912 AGED 32 YEARS. HIS SON MICHAEL DIED 24th APR. 1915 (1st World War?) AGED 24 YEARS. THE ABOVE JAMES DIED 27th NOV. 1916 AGED 71 YEARS. AND HIS WIFE MARY (Flood) DIED 2nd DEC. 1917 AGED 60 YEARS. MARY ROSE NEWMAN DIED 25th AUG 1933 AGED 33 Yrs. AND HER HUSBAND JOHN (not found link to these two yet) DIED 26th DEC. 1960 AGED 80 Yrs R I P”. At bottom GERRARD NAVAN.
Hope this helps.
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bumpydog.
Thanks for all the info. There wasn't a transcript from the cemetery for a grave for Bridget Crawley?
Thanks
Chris
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Sorry, Chris. There are no inscriptions in Blackchurch cemetery with the name Bridget Crawley/Newman. According to my historian source, the vast majority of burials in the area had no headstones/inscriptions.
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Bumpydog
Thanks I thought you would say that.
I have started putting the info into some sort of order starting with James and Mary's children. I know that the 1901 Census and 1911 census ages disagree but if that is all I have to go on I have included that,
From 1911 Census they had 10 children 7 still alive:
1. Thomas Born 22 Feb 1874, DIED 12 FEB 1942 AGED 68 Yrs
2. Patrick Born 01 Mar 1876, DIED 26th FEB. 1898 AGED 21 YEARS.
3. James Born 15 Sep 1878.
4. Mary Newman Born 19 Jan 1881, DIED 25th DEC 1912 AGED 32 YEARS? Married Peter Brady.
5. Bridget Born 1885? (1901 Census) Married Michael Crawley.
6. Peter Born 1986? DIED 17th MARCH 1891 AGED 5 YEARS.
7. John Born 1886? (1911 Census)
8. Michael Born 1891? (1911 Census) DIED 24th APR. 1915 AGED 24 YEARS.
9. Annie Born 1894? (1911 Census) Married Charles Baker.
10. ???
Does this agree with your research?
Can you fill in any gaps?
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I still have quite a lot of work to do to confirm dates and have about 20 certificates to browse when I get a day free to head to the records office. Thomas married Fanny (who I am sure is Frances Boylan). Mary married Peter Brady and had a son, Thomas (who shows up in the James Newman 1911 census (aged 4) as his son-in-law, when he was clearly his grandchild, along with another James Newman, aged 7 (unsure of his parents at the moment until I check certs)! John was probably born in 1883 and not 1886 (again, checking certs). Not sure why the discrepancy of surname Crowley vs Crawley.
One other interesting fact, which might explain the age issues between the 1901 and 1911 census data, is that the pension rules were changed in 1908 and it appears that many people aged a few years to qualify :-)
Much more will become clear when I get so see some birth/marriage/death certificates.
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bumpydog
Thanks.
One of the brothers in law at Thomas's funeral was O. Boylan which supports your theory about Francis.
I look forwards to hearing from you after you have visited the records office.
Chris