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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Surrey => Topic started by: diy on Monday 30 December 13 12:27 GMT (UK)
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I am trying to piece together some details on my ancestors. I have Gr Gr Gr grandfather Richard Stallwood brn about 1835 in Frimley that married a Jane Yates and went on to live in York Town.
It looks like his parents may have been a Richard Stallwood and Eliza but I am struggling to get more information. any help would be greatly appreciated.
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Marriage Yorktown 13..2.1860 to Jane Cottee fathers Richard shoemaker and John publican
Richard junior a shoemaker
Baptism 6.9.1835 to Richard and Eliza Frimley St Peters
Ciderdrinker
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That information fits with Richard Stallwood on the the 1851 census Piece: 1595 Folio: 24 Page: 7 Address: York Town, Ash York Town.
1851 for Jane Cottee Piece: 1595 Folio: 23 Page: 4 York Town, Ash York Town
John Cottee Head Married M 50 Tailor Farnham, Surrey
Anne Cottee Wife Married F 40 Crondall, Hampshire
Jane Cotee Daughter F 10 Scholar Frimley, Surrey
In 1861 John and Ann are living at Wrights Cottage, London Road, Ash, his occupation is still given as a tailor.
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That ties up with the information that I have though I do have a mystery I am trying to unravel. Richard and Jane have a son called Lewis, whom I am descended from, however Lewis takes on the Surname of Yates. I cannot figure where this comes from. Jane remarries after Richard's Death to a Teasdale.
Initially I thought that this may have been Jane's Maiden name but that looks like it is Cottee. SO it is a mystery as to where the Yates comes form :-\
DIY
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Richard's baptism
Richard Stallwood
Christening Date: 06 Sep 1835
Christening Place: Frimley, Surrey, England
Father's Name: Richard Stallwood
Mother's Name: Eliza
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It's not his grandmother's maiden name either:
Richard Stallwood
marriage: 18 May 1834 Frimley,Surrey,England
spouse: Eliza Bird
When did he adopt the name of Yates? I can see him as Stallwood in all censuses.
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On the 1881 census he is listed as Yates.
Head Margaret L Hutton F 44 Maidstone, Kent, England
Son Charles J Hutton M 14 Battersea, Surrey, England
Son Willie J Hutton M 11 York Town, Surrey, England
Lodger Head Lewis B Yates M 23 York Town, Surrey, England
Wife Lydia Yates F 24 Backinford, Devon, England
Daughter Florence R Yates F 0 York Town, Surrey, England
Visitor Ruth Stallwood F 9 York Town, Surrey, England
RG 11 Piece/Folio: 783 / 98
in the 1861 census the Stallwoods have a lodger who's last name is Yates. Can't figure out the connection
York Town South Side no 4 Ebenezer Place Surrey
Richard Stallwood.Head age 25 Journeyman Bootmaker born York Town, Surrey
Jane Stallwood,wife age 20 born York Town, Surrey
Louis Stallwood,son age 3 born York Town, Surrey
Emma Jane Stallwood,dau age 4 months(or days) born York Town, Surrey
John Henry Jas Yates,visitor age 30 Unmarried Labourer born York Town, Surrey
RG9/430 Farnham Frimley Folio 14 Page 22
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Very strange as he reverts back to Stallwood on later censuses so it obviously wasn't a permanent change.
It also looks as if Florence was registered as a Yates
YATES, Florence Ruth
Farnham Surrey
1880 Jul-Aug-Sep
Volume 2A Page 92
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Change has stuck. Lewis had a son Edward Earnest Yates (my Gr Grandfather) and the Yates name has carried on to this day. :)
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Have you found a marriage for Lewis and Lydia, I cant find one. I wonder if she was Lydia Yates and they weren't married - perhaps he took her name for a while for some reason. It might be worth getting Florence's birth certificate to see if that gives any clues.
Very strange as the whole family, including Ernest, are down as Stallwood in 1901 and 1911.
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I have it on my records that Lewis Married Lydia wood from Backinford Devon in York Town in 1879
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Is that the Lewis Bonson Yates who married in 1879?
Birth:
Lewes Bonson Yates
Jan-Feb-Mar 1858
Farnham
Volume: 2a Page: 69
I dont think he was Richard's child - he was born in 1858 and Richard and Jane didn't marry until 1860. Surely he wasn't the lodger's child and the lodger was still with them in 1861? Richard must have been very understanding if that was the case. ;D Might be worth getting his birth certificate to see what it says.
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John Henry James Yates
Christening Date: 08 Jul 1832
Christening Place: Frimley, Surrey, England
Father John Yates
Mother Anne
Looks as if he married by 1871 RG10; Piece: 820; Folio: 27; Page: 31 Frimley
Henry Yates 39 Labourer York Town Surrey
Sarah Yates 45 Ireland
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Difficult to know what is going on. The 1861 census has Lewis (Louis) as 3 at the time. So 1858 would see right for year of birth. Jane and Richard don't marry until 1860. So difficult to know who is Lewis Father. I would be rather odd for Richard to have his wife's former partner lodge with them if John Yates was his father.
There is a christening record for a Lewis Bosson Cottee 2nd2 April 1858, Mother Jane Cottee.
Where is the best place to get hold of the birth certificate?
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There is a christening record for a Lewis Bosson Cottee 2nd2 April 1858, Mother Jane Cottee.
Sounds as if that is it then doesn't it? Lewis Bosson Cottee was Jane's child before she married Richard. As he was registered as Lewis Bosson Yates, it seems very much as if his father was a Yates, although as you say, odd if he was living with them in 1861.
The best place to get the certificate from is the GRO http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/default.asp
They will cost you £9.25, which includes postage. Don't go through a subscription site as that will cost you more.
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when you say he was registered as Lewis Bonson Yates, does this refer to the Farnham record you mentioned Below?
Thanks
Birth:
Lewes Bonson Yates
Jan-Feb-Mar 1858
Farnham
Volume: 2a Page: 69
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Yes, from Freebmd http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl
Births Mar 1858
Yates Lewis Bonson Farnham 2a 69
Please let us know what the certificate says as I'm intrigued now. ;)
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Good Morning
Ciderdrinker back again ,sorry to have been so brief yesterday but my time on the Library computer was counting down...
You are not the only one looking for Lewis Bonson Yates/Stallwood.There is a thread I think on Genforum concerning him,and they states they already have his birth certificate,no father mentioned.
Manchester Rambler on an earlier thread on Rootschat has found Mr Yates baptism at Frimley John Henry James Yates 8.7.1832 to John and Ann but there is also a sister Jane 31.1.1841 .
And this marriage may through some light on the Yates /Cottee affair
Marylebone 23.5.1842
John Cottee of full age widower tailor Marylebone s of John hairdresser
Ann Yates same widow same d of William Davis bricklayer.
Wit John and Mary Kirkpatrick.They all sign except Mary Kirkpatrick.
So it seems Jane's real surname was Yates and her mother remarried a Mr Cottee,John is not Lewis's father but uncle.
1841 census Godley Surrey-Newtown hamlet of Frimley
John Cottee 42 tailor y
Emily 15 y
Ann Yeats 25 y
Ann 6 y
Jane 6mths
Sister Ann married 27.6.1853 York Town
Edward James Beach /Bach 21 painter york town John Beech cooper
Ann Yates 19 same d of John Yates gentleman's servant
wit John Cottee and Jane Clark
Will have a look for baptisms ,marriages etc of Yates at Frimley.
Ciderdrinker
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Hello Ciderdrinker
That is a brilliant find and explains a lot. It makes far more sense John being an uncle and not his father.
I wonder if Jane was John Cottee's child though as Ann was already living with him in 1841? If they weren't married she may have been registered as a Yates. We need to find out when Anne's first husband died.
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Good morning
Had a look for Jane registered as Yates,Yeats and Cottee but no luck.Her baptism states her father John was a groom,her older brother's that he was a serving man and the same for Ann 2.3.1835.
Her father and mother married 21.11.1831 at Crondall All Saints which was where she came from?Witnesses Henry and Sarah Davis.
Ann Cottee died age 78 Hartley Wintney Hamps where she was living with daughter Ann Mar 1889 2c 109.John Cottee Farnham June 1870 age 75 2a 60.
John Cottee had been married to a Mary - baptisms Emily 22.8.1824 and Caroline 19.6.1828 but I'm not having much luck with the deaths of their spouses.I've been through the burials for Frimley St Peters 1825-1845 pages 24-86 and nothing.
Sorry I can't find John Yates but as a groom he could have been working away ,had an accident and been buried anywhere.
But your right I do think Jane was his daughter and John Yates had died some time before.
Ciderdrinker
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There is this birth registration which could be her, nothing else under Yates or Cottee
COTTEE
Female (unnamed)
Farnham Surrey
1841 Jan-Feb-Mar
Volume 4 Page 128
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Groom, Ciderdrinker, thanks for your help here, you are really helping solve this mystery for me. So If I am following everything correctly it looks like the following:
Jane Cottee (Yates) mother is Ann Yates who was married to John Yates who was a Groom.
By 1841
John Yates has disappeared and Ann is now living with John Cottee with a 6mth old Jane
1842 Ann and John Cottee marry
Possible John Cottee is Jane's Father
Moving on in time. Jane has a son Lewis who she registers as Lewis Bonson Yates Mothers Previous married name, however we do not know who the father is although a couple of years later Jane marries Richard Stallwood and is raised as his son.
Thanks again,
DIY
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Ciderdrinker,
I'm not sure I understand the shorthand in the last part of one of your previous messages:
Ann Yates 19 same d of John Yates gentleman's servant
wit John Cottee and Jane Clark
What does this information relate too?
I can find a birth record of Ann Davis brn 22/9/1816 and chr 22/12/1816 in Newport, Isle of Wight, Hampshire, Father is William davis, mother is Ann. Do you think this is the same line?
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Edward James Beach /Bach 21 painter york town John Beech cooper
Ann Yates 19 same d of John Yates gentleman's servant
wit John Cottee and Jane Clark
I think Ciderdrinker means:
Edward James Beach bachelor 21 painter York Town father John Beech a cooper
Ann Yates 19 York Town father John Yates a gentleman's servant
witnesses John Cottee and Jane Clark
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Good Morning
Yes I did,thank you Groom.Sorry for any confusion and not getting back to you.The library was shut yesterday.
Got a possible for the brother John Henry James Yates 1841 census
Bricklayers Arms Ash Surrey
Ann Davis 58 beer house keeper N
Robert McChun 30 painter N
Mary 30 dressmaker N
Robert Beldcheam 24 bricklayer y
Charles Brown 45 painter N
William Christian 30 lab N
George Taylor 45 lab N
Henry Yeates 9 Y
Probably living with mother's Jane Yates/Cottee nee Davis 's relative.Strangely grandfather William Davis was a bricklayer.
Ciderdrinker
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I Looked up the other thread you pointed to on rootschat and Manchester Rambler mentions:
'looked John Henry James Yates up on the IGI, and he was christened in Frimley on 8 Jul 1832, son of John and Ann Yates. John and Ann also christened a daughter Jane Yates in Frimley on 31 Jan 1841'
Can you find any records that confirm John Yates or John Cottee as Jane's Father? Christening Record suggests John Yates was father. This being the case John Yates would have to have been alive at least until first quarter 1840.
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Christening Record suggests John Yates was father.
What exactly do you mean by this - does it give him as the father?
Remember that if a woman was married it was assumed that her husband was the father of the child.
It may have been that he did die before Jane was born and that Ann and the children were just lodging with John Cottee in 1841 before they then got married. I cant see any deaths for a John Yates in Surrey between 1838 and 1841.
You may have to chance it and get the certificate I mentioned earlier to see if it is her:
COTTEE
Female (unnamed)
Farnham Surrey
1841 Jan-Feb-Mar
Volume 4 Page 128
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After I posted the previous mail I looked up the IGI. The IGI has record of Jane Yates being Christened on the 31st Jan 1841, Frimley, Surrey. John Yates as father and mother listed as Ann. I believe that this is the entry that Manchester Rambler was referring too. I guess the real answer will lie in the birth certificate
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I also have been looking for death record of John Yates. There are plenty of candidates outwith Surrey, but I don't have enough information on John to be able to match. John is listed as Groom/Gentleman's servant on the various documents/census records so as Ciderdrinker suggested it could be he travelled and died outwith surrey.
Thanks,
DIY
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Hi
There is a suggestion that John Yates also came from Hampshire and was baptised to James and Elizabeth 9.7.1809 at Yately.
However I can't see anything to support this and it doesn't really help with the GRO index as no age is given until 1865.As you said there are no John Yates /Yeates dead in Surrey 1837-1841.
I'd buy that birth certificate.
Ciderdrinker
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Lewis Bonson Yates was my Gt Grandfather. This is a very complex family as there are a number of name changes.
Jane Yates: 1840 - 1909
Parents - John Yates 1809 - 1840 & Ann Davis 1811 - 1889 (m: 1837)
Siblings - John Henry James 1832 - 1872 & Ann 1835 - 1887
When John dies Ann then marries John Cottee 1795 - 1870 in 1842 (both listed as widow/ers on certificate)
In the 1841 census Ann & John are living next door to each other in Ash, Surrey.
Jane has child Lewis Bonson Yates 1858 - 1939 - no father listed on birth certificate. On his baptism he is listed as Lewis Bosson Cottee
In 1860 she then marries Richard Stallwood 1835 - 1876. They have 7 children:
Emma Jane
Richard
Beatrice Alexandra
Ernest
Ruth
Owen
Lydia
She then remarries after Richard' death in 1882 to Daniel Owen Teasdale 1838 - 1909. They have one child:
Daniel
Lewis Bonson Yates is listed as Stallwood whilst living with Jane & Richard. In 1879 as Yates he marries Lydia Wood 1856 - 1915. They have 13 children:
Florence Ruth
Lewis William
Edmund
Arthur Richard Bonson
Gertrude Ellen
Ernest Edward
Harry
Christina Maud
Frederick John
Margaret Annie
Walter Leonard
Alfred David (my grandfather)
Lydia Frances
He appears on 1881 census as Yates & then uses Stallwood on 1891, 1901 & 1911. All of his children were registered on Birth & Marriage certificates as Yates.
Hope this is of help, it's taken quite a while to get this far :)
If anybody has anything else, would be great as I'm finding out information as I dig deeper.
Regards