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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Free Photo Restoration & Date Old Photographs => Topic started by: jennywren001 on Thursday 26 December 13 15:56 GMT (UK)
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As far as I know this is the only photo of my great grandfather that exists. My Gran looks about 4 in this so maybe it's just before WW1 - she was born in 1910. That's her eldest sister (11 years older than my Gran) standing next to her. My GG father was a cooper but he's in a navel outfit here - my Gran used to say it was just 'fancy dress' - was she correct?
Thanks for any improvements to the photo and information re the 'navel uniform'
Jen
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(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z258/jdblf/Gran1914_zpse608a081.jpg) (http://s190.photobucket.com/user/jdblf/media/Gran1914_zpse608a081.jpg.html)
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Thanks that's much clearer- I swear I can see dirt under his fingernails! That uniform's looking a bit jaded - maybe my Gran was right and it was a staged photo.
Thanks
Jen
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My one
Irene
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Hello Jen. Here's my try with colour, regarding the naval uniform, I was merchant navy not royal, & I must add, ( not 1914), so know nothing about the R. N. uniforms, I am wondering if your gran got the idea about the uniform from the fact that there is no name of a ship on the headband? as in wartime the names of ships were taken of so as not to let your enemies know where our ships were, I can't imagine a man deliberately wearing one if he was not in the service especialy a policeman as I believe it was a criminal offence, besides the fact that in those day's he would not have had many friends if he was passing himself off as a sailor in the Royal navy, anyway all the best, Ken.
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Sorry Jen, just noticed my glaring mistake, will put it right & repost.
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Hi Jen This is the one I meant to post in.
Carolyn :)
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Another for you
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hi
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Like Ken I think it is a genuine pic and as stated the ships' name was removed in wartime,
The navy of ww1 had some trades that were basically that of a navvy particularly when a vessel was coaling and the Trimmers below decks had to keep the hundreds of tons of coal well balanced so as not to compromise the stabilty of the vessel, grease, fats and tar was used liberally by the sailors so dirty fingernails was probably a la mode.
It is possible he was RNR. some fishermen called up for war service as RNR ratings sometimes kept the varous messes supplied with fresh fish paricularly in the Sout Atlantic after the Battle of the Falkland Islands in 1914
Perhaps if you posted this on armed Forces boards when the restores have finished you may get assistance with his medals and records.
James
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Beautiful photo .... nice one to restore :)
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First of all a huge thank you to everyone who puts their time, effort and expertise into restoring these photos. Second I found my G gradfather at the National Archives - looks like he was in the reserves no listing in the ratings records...A rather sad tale he drowned himself age 56.
"Registry of Shipping and Seamen: Royal Naval Reserve Ratings' Records of Service (Microfiche Copies). Name Fraser, William Noble. Place of Birth: Fraserburgh, Aberdeenshire. Number: DA 6273. Date of Birth: 10 July 1875."
Thanks
Jen
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Another coloured version :-)
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My effort, :)
(Grandad used to call my sister Jenny Wren) :)
Yvonne
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There is a record for William Noble Fraser, but is in the Board of Trade series (BT)
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/Details?uri=D8513801 (http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/Details?uri=D8513801)
According to the medal roll he was awarded the 14-15 Star, British War Medal and Victory Medal.
Martin
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Thanks Martin,
I obviously didn't know he had been awarded any medals given I didn't even know he saw service until a couple of days ago.He was someone my Gran didn't much talk much about maybe because he died so tragically. I was told he played football for Scotland and when I was young my Gran had a little cap that she said he was awarded but I've no idea if that story is true...
I've got so many fab photos now - thanks everyone.
Jen
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A couple of technical points re the uniform: The lanyard is incorrectly worn as it does not pass under the silk. The silk appears very poorly put together (it is too wide and untidy for starters) and would not come close to passing any inspection. It has also been incorrectly tied off with a bow which has invertes cut into the tag ends. The uniform has no ranking badge or any other insignia which a serving sailor would definitely have. 'HMS' Cap tallies were not in use in WW1 and sailors were instructed to remove them or use their depot tally when on shore leave. It was WW2 when 'HMS' tallies were issued specifically for shore leave etc. The trousers would have had five or seven equally spaced creases across them and none are evident. The general impression is that the uniform was not put on by a sailor familiar with how to use the accessories. Certainly not by one getting his photo taken. I agree that it was probably provided by the studio even though the wearer was a reservist. Many reservists didn't wear uniforms because they were working in local waters and often on fishing vessels which were undertaking naval duties like observation, minesweeping and transferring cargo and personnel.....
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PS The only William Fraser to have played for Scotland (according to the SFA online historical archive) at football was in 1954 and he was the captain. I must be coming over like a real party pooper........Willie Fraser was born 1929 in Brighton, Victoria, Australia and was a goalkeeper......
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Wow, impressive information about the uniform, Portonian. That's what makes reading rootschat threads so fascinating!
The chap looks very young for 40...
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I still tend to agree this is a genuine sailor,
There are many pics of ww1 sailors in uniform and without seven pleats in the trousers and without trade badges on sleeves of ratings.
The ww1 HMS cap tally is also seen in use for ww1 personnel as are others with ships' names , I simply googled ww1 Royal Navy sailors and the info is available to see, even different ways the lanyard is configured on the wearer.
So I am of the opinion, with the help of Mr. Google, this man is a genuine naval rating.
Many RNR men also left their occupation in fishing or Merchant Marine to attend annual training at RN bases for which they received a bounty.
James
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Many thanks for the information. Football hmm..Scotland I don't think he even played for The Broch! (sorry Brooch fans) My gran probably picked up the cap at a jumble sale and kept it in the photo box to make up wee stories for me. I do remember the cap was a little maroon skull cap with gold braiding and a gold tassel.
I'm not sure if they were still in Fraserburgh when this picture was taken or had moved to Dundee. The youngest child was born in Fraserburgh in 1914 so if my Gran was four or less it's Fraserburgh.
William does look young for 40 - good genes- my Gran looked young for 40 too. He was a cooper by trade just like his father. His son (same name) died in WW2 and is remembered at Yokohama War Cemetery.
Jen
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:)
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Finally got to the point of writing up this period in the family history so thought I'd better download my GG Dad's records. It looks like he was on the 'Eagle' from 29/4/1915 to 15/1/1919. There are a number of stamps for 'naval prize money' dated 1922...a couple that add up to £18 and further one for £2. Is there a way to find out how the crew of the Eagle earned this money?
Jen
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It should say on the person's record what the prize money was awarded for, In my grandfather's record it says "Prize bounty awarded for the Falkland Islands Battle and the destuction of Dresden,
Dresden being the German Cruiser SMS Dresden and the Falkland Islands Battle was the sinking of SMS Nurnburg December 1914,
His prize money was awarded 25.4.1917.
Hope this helps
James
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Thanks James,
I've attached a clip that shows the award - maybe it was just from a general fund? I know this is probably a stupid question but any idea what P.I.C. stands for?
Jen
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It may have been a general prize fund that was shared out among many from different vessels, can't help any more on that I'm afraid.
Three letter Acronyms (TLAs) are the bain of many researchers, theonly thing I could find on PIC was personal information cell, or person in charge.
James
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one i was working on, didn't realise so many others now ;)
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Oh, Shaky so sorry I had totally forgotten this was originally about the photo! I'll have this marked as completed although I'm not done with him!
Thanks
Jen
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all good, i'm just trying to keep myself amused at work, thankfully its friday ;)
Have a good weekend 8)
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It looks like Eagle may have been in use as a training ship, originally from the Napoleonic era
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Eagle_%281804%29
More here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Eaglet_%28shore_establishment%29
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My effort - merry Xmas
:)
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My belated effort, :)
Yvonne
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Wow Yvonne that is quite stunning! Many thanks.
Jen
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Thanks Jen, :)
I just removed another mark below the sailor's cord.
Yvonne