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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: Jen10 on Saturday 21 December 13 16:26 GMT (UK)
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Hi all,
I have a convict, GEORGE Cannon, transported to Tasmania on the Mangles in 1834. His convict records state that he was born in 1809/1810 in Berkhampstead (there are different spellings). His father is Thomas and he has a brother, William, and 2 sisters, Sarah and Maria. It says he was convicted of housebreaking at Middlesex on 10th April 1834, with William Hill prosecuting, sentence transported for life.
I have been able to find the court records for the day, where there was a CHARLES Cannon convicted of housebreaking, with an Edward Hill prosecuting. There was also a Charles Cannon born to Thomas and Elizabeth Cannon in Great Berkhampstead in 1810, who has siblings with the same names.
Is it reasonable to assume that these are the same people, or is this a big leap? How accurate are the convict records likely to be with names? Was it common for a convict to change his/her name?
Thanks in advance!
Jen
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Not unusual for a person to use another 1st name. The convict records you have seen, are they transcribed? If so, mistakes understanding writing in the old hand can sometimes occur.
It would be very unusual to find two people with same parents and siblings in court on same offence, I would think.
Does the convict record have any aliases for your fellow. IE: AKA Charles.?
Neil
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Thanks Neil. I have seen both transcribed and original records, and they appear to be transcribed correctly. There are no aliases noted in the convict records.
Also, I have not been able to find a record of a George Cannon being born in Berkhampstead/Great Berkhampstead in 1809/10. I have looked at a microfilm of the original records.
I am leaning towards them being the same person, but I don't want to rush to unwarranted conclusions!
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Just transcribing from the Tas convict indents which Jen has obviously seen, but I thought it worth posting.
No 1874
George CANNON, 25, 5ft 4.5 inches, Ho(?) Lad & Tailor 3.5 years - can't cut out,
tried Middlesex G D on 10 April 1834, sentence - life
Native Place: Burkhampstead, single, protestant religion, can read and write,
Father: Thomas in London, Paddington, a gardener
Brother Wm, sisters Sarah, Maria, one in service with L Courtnay, I A P(?), last in business in London.
This offence: housebreak, pros Mr Hill of Paddington, denies being in prison or being transported before.
A departure record is given for George
George CANNON, Steerage, per City of Melbourne 29 Dec 1851, from Launceston to Melbourne, ship of arrival: Mangles Conditional Pardon
George made an application to marry Mary Ann DEAN in August 1845. Mary Ann had arrived per Majestic in 1839.
George and Mary Ann had these children:
Elizabeth CANNON 1846, b Longford, Tas
Thomas CANNON 1850, b Launceston Tas
Mary Ann CANNON 1852, b Launceston, Tas
Sarah CANNON SARAH JANE 1853, b Lauunceston Tas, died 1854
This information from: http://portal.archives.tas.gov.au/menu.aspx?search=11
There is some further information about the son Thomas which I'm happy to put up if you would like it.
Account of trial:
http://www.oldbaileyonline.org/browse.jsp?id=t18340410-146&div=t18340410-146&terms=cannon#highlight
UK, Prison Hulk Registers and Letter Books,
Geo CANNON, 23, convicted Newgate, 10 April 1834, housebreaking, sentence life, disposed to VDL 20 April 1835.
Received on prison ship Hardy at Portsmouth, 8 May 1834
As you see there are a couple of slight discrepancies but the date of the trial remains the same and the name of the victim is the same, for the records for Charles CANNON/George CANNON. The names of his father, his siblings and his birthplace are the same.
I think you are safe to say that they are the same person. A clue may lie in the statement from the Indent - "denies being in prison or being transported before." There is a conviction for a Charles CANNON, 18, for larceny at The Old Bailey in 1829, and was sentenced to 7 years transportation but I can see no Australian convict record for a matching Charles CANNON. Many sentences were reduced, so he may have been released rather than transported or transported elsewhere.. If they are the same man it would be in his interest to deny a previous conviction.
Judith
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Thank you Judith.
I had not seen the other conviction. It could well be him - it seems to be in the same area. I also had not seen the prison hulk register information. I appreciate your efforts.
I would be very interested in some more information about the son, Thomas. I have some already, and he is my ancestor, but any more would be appreciated.
Thanks again,
Jen
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The Standard (London, England), Friday, March 28, 1834
William Goodlad and George Cannon etc etc etc
the later just returned from transportation etc etc etc
Its a fairly large article so if you would like a copy PM me your email and i'll get it to you :)
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These children of George and Mary Ann are from the Tas portal site.
http://portal.archives.tas.gov.au/menu.aspx?search=8
Elizabeth CANNON
Birth: 1846 - LONGFORD, Tasmania
Death: 1852 - LAUNCESTON,Tasmania
Thomas CANNON:
Marriage/Relationship: 1876 - LAUNCESTON, Tasmania ( SMITH, AGNES )
Child: Thomas CANNON, b 1887 d 1888
I wonder if there were other children, but this is the only one mentioned on this site.
I note that there are more siblings for Charles CANNON, baptised in the early 1800s at Great Berkhampstead. I am assuming you have these - happy to post if you want them.
Interesting find, giblet
Judith
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FindMyPast
Crime, Prison and punishments
Cannon Charles - 1829 Old Bailey, London
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The Old Bailey site has the account of the trial of Charles CANNON on 19 February 1829. By coincidence there are trials for 3 people with the surname CANNON, all on 15 February, 1829 -
Joseph CANNON, 44, hay carter, living in Harrow - for hay stealing, confined 6 months
Mary CANNON, 17, larceny, transportation 7 years
Elizabeth CANNON, 38, confined 14 days
I can't see a Mary CANNON on Aussie records, but I do see a Joseph who may be the right person as there are some later convictions.
Judith
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From reading the article from Giblet, it seems that it is the same person. The newspaper article mentions George Cannon and William Goodlad being indicted for the same offense that Charles Cannon and William Goodlad were convicted of in the court records. It also mentions that George had just returned from being transported, and that he was well known to police as a "desperate character". I think this may be the same George who was convicted in 1829 and sentenced to 7 years transportation, but I am also unable to find any record of a George/Charles transported at this time.
Was it common for these men to return from transportation? I was under the impression that they had to pay their own way back if they wanted to go back to England.
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Was it common for these men to return from transportation? I was under the impression that they had to pay their own way back if they wanted to go back to England.
I dont think the 1829 one come to Australia. Sometimes when sentenced for transportation they had their sentences changed and spent the time in jail. If he had come to Australia he would have had to have received a Absolute pardon to be able to return to the UK
http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/state-archives/indexes-online/indexes-to-convict-records/index-to-tickets-of-leave-certificates-and-pardons
Also
There is a conviction for a Charles CANNON, 18, for larceny at The Old Bailey in 1829, and was sentenced to 7 years transportation
He wouldnt have been back in the UK for the 1834 offence if he had been transported for 7 years in 1829.
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Convicts were also transported to Bermuda and returned to England after their sentence.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=531876.msg3862324#msg3862324
This thread (Reply #1) suggest that there were prison hulks in Gibraltar also.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=516216.msg3719864#msg3719864
National Archives (UK) links
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/looking-for-person/prisoners.htm?WT.lp=rg-3150
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/research-guides/criminals-18th-20th-centuries.htm
Perhap this is where Charles/George was sent after the 1829 conviction and then returned to London. As Giblet says, it's unlikely he was transported to Oz. The newspaper article specifically mentions that he was back from transportation.
I have read a R;chat thread which discusses someone who had been sent to Bermuda and then returned, but I can't find it now. :(
Judith
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FindMyPast
Crime, Prison and punishments
Cannon Charles - 1829 Old Bailey, London
Would this record have a release date or if he was transported, where he was sent to? :-\
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I'm not sure if you're still researching George Cannon, but I have a lot of information about him, his ancestors, two marriages and children, including anecdotes from his grandchildren about him.
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I think George may be my G G G Grandfather. ....if I am right his daughter Mary Ann married a Henry Milner. .... can anyone confirm this for me?
Cheers Carol
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You would need to purchase the certificate for Mary Ann's second marriage in 1900. It will give a place of birth, age and the names of both her parents.
Debra :)
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My records are that Mary Ann Cannon was born 29 Jan 1852 in Launceston, and died 8 Mar 1897 in Beaconsfield Tas. If there was a second marriage in 1900 then something is amiss. I don't have good sources for her death though.
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The Mary CANNON who died 8 March 1897 was a married woman and was aged 36.
Mary Ann CANNON married firstly to Henry MILNER and secondly to Bruce GUNN.
Her death in 1916:
GUNN - On the 3rd October at her residence, 90 Patterson street, Mary Ann, dearly beloved wife of Bruce Gunn, aged 65 years. A patient sufferer gone to rest.
The marriage of a daughter not long after:
FISHER - MILNER - On the 19th December, 1916, by the Rev. W. J. Holt, M.A., D.D. Eric Oakley, youngest son of Mr. and Mrs. C. E. Fisher, of Launceston, to Elsie Milner, sixth daughter of the late Mr. Henry Milner and the late Mrs. B. Gunn, of Launceston.
Debra :)
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Thanks for that prompt response, Debra.
Since I'm descended from George's second marriage, I don't put as much focus on endless connections, but it's nice to correct her details. I made the mistake of entering some records without carefully noting the sources, and so this leads to mess to clean up later! Never do this. Never ever without noting your source, he tells himself.