RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: Brian1 on Tuesday 10 December 13 12:56 GMT (UK)
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I have managed to trace Norah Dowling born 1893 in Melborne who married Archibald Duncan P Nixon on 12th June 1916 in the Congregational church, Dowling Street, Moore Park, Sydney. Archibald died 5th November 1953 in Mosnan NSW.
How do I find if they had any children or when Norah died?
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Probate for Archibald Nixon - Date of Death 06/11/1953 http://investigator.records.nsw.gov.au/Entity.aspx?Path=\Item\840639
Probates contain useful information and often include, death certificate, children etc
cheers :)
cupoflife
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Many thanks for this info. Will start to investigate
Brian
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Archibald Nixon:
Death notice: http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/18396047?
Funeral notice: Randwick General Cemetery http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/27523228?
cheers :)
cupoflife
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Previous threads to save repeating information ::)
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=534142.0
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=40521.0
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=36864.0
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The only death notice I can see for Archibald does not mention Norah at all - only that he is the younger son of the late Mr and Mrs W J Nixon of Hurstville. Privately cremated.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/18396047
Judith
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Thanks Judith for the info.
I do know they were married but its strange she is not in any of the death or funeral notices. This would make me suspect that she had either died prior to him or that they had parted
Brian
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Hi there,
There’s an index mention of a Norah Nixon re Elizabeth Dickson Brinkman v Johann Hermanus Brinkman, 16 Jul 1928 to 9 Apr 1931, at Archives Investigator NO WAY to tell from that index entry if it is the ‘right’ Norah.
http://investigator.records.nsw.gov.au/Search.aspx
I have looked at the 1930, 1937 Electoral roll and Elizabeth Dickson Brinkman was at Hurstville.
Would you be interested in the 1939 marriage of a John Hermanis BRINKMAN and a Nora Heloise NIXON, registered at Woollahra (#2680) There’s a death for Elizabeth Dickson BRINKMAN at age 71 SMH 31 Jan 1939, late of Hurstville.
There’s a death for Johannes Hermanus BRINKMAN in 1970 (#6190)
There’s a death of Nora Heloise BRINKMAN SMH 28 Dec 1996, at age 95.
http://www.ryersonindex.org/
Cheers, JM
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Interesting... In the funeral notice for her brother John Edmund DOWLING, she is referred to as “Miss NORA”. SMH Friday 17 July 1925 http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/16227806?
Death notice of brother Michael DOWLING (death 26th Dec 1971, aged 68). SMH 31 Dec 1971 http://www.rootschat.com/links/0x7x/ (page 12 in this link)... "beloved husband of Alice, fond brother of Norah Dowling"
159/1972 Michael DOWLING; Father – Harry; Mother – Margaret; Sydney
cheers :)
cupoflife
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How do I find if they had any children
The NSW BDM death certificate (or an official transcription) includes sections that address the following:
The surname and given names of the deceased and
sex and age,
the date of death,
the place of death
the usual place of residence,
the usual occupation
the marital status at death
The details of any marriage/s
Where and when married, and age when married, and the full name of the spouse (former and maiden names)
If more than one marriage, then the following details are listed under each marriage
the names of thethen living children of the marriage, with their ages, and the gender (sometimes their names) of any children of the marriage who were no longer living
The details about the deceased Parents (father's given names and family name and mother's given and former and maiden name
MOST of the above information comes from the 'Informant" whose name, address and relationship to the deceased is stated on the registration
Then there's the Medico's section providing the information about:
Cause/s of death and duration of last illness
Then there's the funeral director's section and sometimes this will include the clergy details too,
Advising if a Burial or cremation, the date and place of internment.
NSW BDM gives #28469 for Archibald Duncan NIXON's 1953 reference.
RChat's link re Official Transcription Agents
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,300394.0.html
Archibald Nixon:
Death notice: http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/18396047?
Funeral notice: Randwick General Cemetery http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/27523228?
cheers :)
cupoflife
Cheers, JM
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Could this be her?
Probate (may contain death certificate and other valuable information)
Nora Ewing - Date of Death 17/04/1974 http://investigator.records.nsw.gov.au/Entity.aspx?Path=\Item\1529689
NSW BDM 2976/1974 Nora EWING; Father - Harry; Mother – Margaret
Death 17Apr1974; age 81 SMH 19Apr1974(pg34).
EWING, Nora. – April 17, 1974, at Mana House, Wahroonga, formerly of Terrey Hills. Aged 81 years.
Funeral notice SMH 20Apr1974 (pg142) Mrs Nora EWING … Northern Suburbs Crematorium
Probate notice SMH 1June1977 (pg28)
cheers :)
cupoflife
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Nora EWING - death, funeral & probate notices in the SMH:
http://postimg.org/image/u5d9nnjzt/
http://postimg.org/image/je2o59nfz/
http://postimg.org/image/t9nd2cq93/
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The only death notice I can see for Archibald does not mention Norah at all
they were married ...... suspect that she had either died prior to him or that they had parted
funeral notice for her brother John Edmund DOWLING, she is referred to as “Miss NORA”. SMH Friday 17 July 1925 http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/16227806?
Death notice of brother Michael DOWLING (death 26th Dec 1971, aged 68). SMH 31 Dec 1971 http://www.rootschat.com/links/0x7x/ (page 12 in this link)... "beloved husband of Alice, fond brother of Norah Dowling"
May I please ask about the marriage in 1916 of Norah DOWLING and Archibald NIXON, registered Sydney….
Do you have the marriage cert (or official transcription) ?
Is it certain that this is the ‘right’ Norah DOWLING and
Is it certain that this the same Archibald NIXON as the chap who died in 1953.
I note that the National Archives of Australia has the digitised WWI service records for John DOWLING, and his father (a Mr H Dowling) is listed as next of kin. This chap was born St Kilda, and joined up in April 1916, giving his age as 23 7/12 years, He enlisted with his address as Letitia St, Oatley and his dad’s address as Alice St Oatley. Oatley is in the Hurstville district. (Barcode for the item is 2519344) It seems he may well be the chap cupoflife has mentioned as there’s the birth indexed for Albert Park, Victoria for Jno Edmund DOWLING, son of Hy Dowling and Margt Harrison for 1895. The ref #17317.
http://www.naa.gov.au/collection/search/index.aspx
I note that Michael was born in NSW, in 1902, and his birth registered Balmain South in 1902 (#29603).
Cheers, JM
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1930 Electoral Roll MOSMAN, polling at Balgowlah
Margaret DOWLING, New St, home duties
Michael DOWLING, New Street, labourer
Nora DOWLING, New St, dressmaker
Balgowlah is near to Manly, both are suburbs of Sydney on the north shore. Mosman is not just the name of an electorate, but it is a suburb near to Manly too.
ADD : John Edmund Dowling's death in 1925 is registered in the BDM district of MANLY. (INDEX has his parents as Henry and Margaret) #14821
I have managed to trace Norah Dowling born 1893 in Melborne who married Archibald Duncan P Nixon on 12th June 1916 in the Congregational church, Dowling Street, Moore Park, Sydney. Archibald died 5th November 1953 in Mosnan NSW.
How do I find if they had any children or when Norah died?
Cheers, JM
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Snap, JM
The same three are at the same address in 1931 and 1933. !936, 1937 has only Margaret and Michael at New St.
1943 has Michael there without any other DOWLINGs
Judith
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And a Michael DOWLING marries in 1947, with Alice Elizabeth MOORE registered at North Sydney #16837
Ryerson has Alice Elizabeth DOWLING SMH 12 Feb 1975
http://www.ryersonindex.org/
Cheers, JM :) ;) Judith ;)
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Margaret DOWLING died Nov 1941:
DOWLING -November 21 1941 Margaret Dowling beloved mother of Nora, James and Michael Dowling aged 80 years Privately cremated, 21st instant.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/17775405
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Ryerson has Alice Elizabeth DOWLING SMH 12 Feb 1975
Funeral notice:
http://postimg.org/image/rj22zjnyp/
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1930 Electoral Roll MOSMAN, polling at Balgowlah
Margaret DOWLING, New St, home duties
Michael DOWLING, New Street, labourer
Nora DOWLING,
ErrorSPAM
REPORT THIS POST AS SPAM (Use 'Report to Moderator'). DO NOT CLICK ON ANY LINKS IN THIS POST. DO NOT REPLY TO THIS PERSON.
]New St,[/color] dressmaker[/color]
Nora EWING - quiltmaker:
http://www.collectionsaustralia.net/nqr/result.php?ID=1111&restype=t&PHPSESSID=e14e421edb234794a503d2dd9c700058
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Many, many, many thanks for all you contributions to this thread. It's going to take me some time to check through all of your results for Norah. First thing I must do is see if I have the marriage cert. for Archibald and Norah
Many thanks again
Brian
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Managed to find the marriage certificate. Archibald's father is listed as John William ( an auctioneer ) and mother as Cathy McIntyre. and Norah's parents as Henry Dowling and Margaret Harrison. They were married on 12th June 1916,
It would appear that they had split up or divorced according to previous contributions to this thread.
Brian
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Nora EWING (home duties) is first mentioned on NSW electoral rolls in 1958 (also 1963) at Mona Vale Rd, Terrey Hills. No-one else of that surname at that address.
Judith
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Curiouser and curiouser-
The NAA has these two WW2 records, unfortunately not digitised.
William Henry DOWLING : Service Number - S1684 :
Date of birth - 21 Feb 1922 : Place of birth - ADELAIDE SA :
Place of enlistment - TORRENS HALL SA :
Next of Kin - Nora DOWLING
Michael DOWLING : Service Number - NX147032 :
Date of birth - 18 Sep 1902 : Place of birth - MANLY NSW :
Place of enlistment - COWRA NSW :
Next of Kin - Nora DOWLING
Michael, I assume, is Nora's brother but one wonders about William Henry who is of an age to be a son of Nora. And his second forename is the same as her father's - which may mean nothing, it's a common name. Of course, the Nora who is listed as his NoK may be another person altogether.
http://www.naa.gov.au/collection/search/index.aspx
Judith
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Curiouser and curiouser-
The NAA has these two WW2 records, unfortunately not digitised.
William Henry DOWLING : Service Number - S1684 :
Date of birth - 21 Feb 1922 : Place of birth - ADELAIDE SA :
Place of enlistment - TORRENS HALL SA :
Next of Kin - Nora DOWLING
...but one wonders about William Henry who is of an age to be a son of Nora. And his second forename is the same as her father's - which may mean nothing, it's a common name. Of course, the Nora who is listed as his NoK may be another person altogether.
This is the SA birth registration for the above. He is not a son of Nora Dowling:
DOWLING William Henry b. 21/02/1922
Father: William Henry DOWLING
Mother: Annie Elizabeth CONSIDINE
Place: Adelaide; District: Ade; Book: 90A; Page: 574
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Perhaps this is her :
Colin Russell EWING, died 2 Jan 1957, His address Terry Hills. His occupation Farmer and from one of Ancestry's partnership arrangements, I can see that this deceased Estate was administered by N EWING.
NSW SRO Archives Investigator has Probate 14 Nov 1957.
Ryerson has SMH 4 Jan 1957.
Fingers crossed some of you can get to that SMH and upload a link :)
Cheers, JM (I have to get back to my work desk :'( :'( :'(
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here is link to newspaper but I don't think it has death notices (they sometimes put last page at start of next issue)
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0x8h/
from another resource.
EWING Colin Russell January 1 1957 at his residence Terrey Hills. Privately cremated Northern Suburbs January 3 1957.
Not very informative :(
cheers,
Ros
edited to shrink link :)
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Hi ... just checked NSW births up to 1918 .... no chn born prior 1918 for Norah & Archibald Nixon following their 1916 marriage.
Valerie
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:)
Dalmationals and Blasterisms that Mr Geggle has a lot to answer for
Need page 14…. The Advertising Index is on page 9 in that edition.
Do we have anyone able to get to the NLA or to NSW State Library to see the real deal paper?
Where’s my NSW SL reader’s card ………. Ummmm….. likely it is at Alice Springs on rellie’s desk…. likely along side my NLA reader's card .... Ummmm.... she was going to post them back to their rightful home ....
Can I get OH's puter work up to date in the next day or so ........ only if he stops giving me more...
Cheers, JM (stale cuppa tea needs to go down the gurgler)
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Can we find a newspaper with keyword searchables with the legal probate announcement say Sept/Oct 1957 ? SMH perhaps
Cheers, JM (OH intrigued, so above suggestion comes from his good self)
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Yes the probate notice is in Sep 7 1957 and names Nora Ewing as sole beneficiary ( Alan Douglas Killip the executor having renounced probate)
regards,
Ros
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I can photograph these probate packages for you next week if you wish
cheers,
Ros
(edited to remove my mistaken duplication)
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Colin Russell EWING -
Birth
1894 #27283, reg at Penrith NSW
Colin EWING
Birth Date: 1894
Father's Name: Thomas T Ewing
Mother's Name: Margaret R
Marriage
1921 #5303, reg Sydney NSW
Colin R Ewing, Olga L Russell
ERs
1930 Colin (accountant) , Olga Lilian (hd)14 Bulkara Rd, Woollahra
1936, 1937 Both at 51 Captain Pipers Rd, Vaucluse
1943 Olga at Warrington, Edgecliffe sq, Edgecliffe
1949 Olga at 5 Holt St, Edgecliffe - no-one else of same surname
1949, 1954 Colin (farmer) Old Northern Rd, Dural - no-one else of that surname at that address.
1958 Olga at 152 Ocean St, Paddington - this is the last one using her two forenames. There are more with just "Olga Ewing" which are in the western suburbs f Sydney and go from 1943-1980 so I am inclined to think they are a different person.
So it would seem that Olga and Colin separated by about 1949.
Judith
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Olga's birth
1895 #15999, reg Petersham, NSW
Olga L RUSSELL
Father's Name: Percy R Russell
Mother's Name: Lilian E
Death of a child of Colin and Olga
1967 #33785, reg Bathurst
Ian Russell EWING, parents: COLIN RUSSELL, OLGA LILLIAN
And of a grandchild - death registered consecutively with Ian - perhaps an accident?
1967 #33786, reg Bathurst
Anthony Colin EWING, parents: IAN RUSSELL, FRANCES PEACE
Judith
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Marriage announcement http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article93062266 for Colin and Olga.
cheers,
Ros
The wedding was celebrated recently at St John's Church, Darlinghurst, of Olga,
daughter of Mr. Percy and Mrs. Russell, Potts Point, and . Mr. Colin Ewing, late or the A.I.F., son of the late Sir Thomas Ewing and of Lady Ewing, of the Northern Rivers.
The bridegroom was in uniform, and he was attended by ...
adding : Yes Judith Ian and Anthony were both killed in an accident on April 26 - very sad
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Society :)
As I understand it, by the 1950s, Sydney's Society Protocols may have inhibited any formal applications being made in the NSW Supreme Court for a termination of any marriage if there could be gossipers at the ready to spread embellished details of domestic situations.
Perhaps there was a name change via a Deed Poll lodged at NSW Land Titles Office.
Cheers, JM
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Many thanks for all of the contributions to this thread, it has generated a wealth of postings.
I am a little confused over how many of you are linking Nora Ewing with Nora Dowling. I can see how she may have married or even taken the name by deed poll of Colin Ewing, but what suggests these 2 may have been together?
Further confusion reigns as to her parents names in some of the funeral notices which quote Harry and Margaret, when her parents are Henry and Margaret.
Sorry am I missing something obvious ?
Brian
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My thoughts are that it is entirely possible that Nora EWING and Nora DOWLING are the same person, but it is also entirely possible that they are not. There are many co-incidences but no actual evidence - the only way to be sure would be to obtain a death certificate and hope that the informant gave correct information. :-\
Nora EWING, 81
17 APR 1974 at Mana House, Wahroonga, formerly of Terrey Hills
Death Notice: Sydney Morning Herald 19 APR 1974
(Ryerson index, as already given)
Judith
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Hi there,
I was about to send the following as a PM, (to our OP of course) and I have decided to post here instead, and canvas other views.
Sorry for the long post, as usual, my poor wordsmith skills are on display. :-[ :-[ :-[
Yes, I agree with Judith, entirely possible either way. I am not at all concerned about Harry v Henry. To me, those two names are entirely inter-changeable. I have several elderly NSW rellies, still alive and alert, born pre 1920. Harry is definitely used by them to refer to another NSW rellie who I know from official records is formally recorded as Henry.
NSW BDM death certs are in three sections. (much more informative than UK certs, and NSW certs include the equivalent of the burial order, not just the death registration).... There’s the section the informant provides with info about the deceased :) ; there’s the section the medico certifies re the cause/s of the death :) ; and there’s the section the funeral director provides re the disposal of the deceased’s remains :). The lodgement of the paperwork is by the funeral director, who asks the questions of the informant and the funeral director must obtain at least a pro temp document from the medico before moving the body to the funeral director's mortuary. The Medico can be informally asked to review the info about their patient, particularly their own records re next of kin contacts.
Consequently,
The NSW BDM does NOT then go through any search to validate the information the informant provides re the deceased’s personal details. (So in general terms the NSW BDM re death certs does not re-check for the names of the deceased’s parents, or the birth details of the deceased, or the marriage/s or children of the deceased; and of course similarly NSW BDM does not re-check informant’s details on birth registrations or on marriage registrations, afterall, on deaths there’s the independent certification from the medico and the funeral director; on births there’s the independence of the midwife/doctor and on marriages there’s the independence of the celebrant ).
So in respect of death certs, there’s always that warning in respect of the family history info on them …. These are only as reliable as the informant’s own knowledge, which if given by a family member is information given at a time of grief.
As far as I know, there's no jurisdiction anywhere in Australia or throughout the former British Empire's spheres of influence where the civil BDM Registrars actually validate the info. So that's a 'technicality' which results in my use of the expression : Official Records.
May I please suggest that Ros’ offer to attend the NSW SRO and access the Probate Packet for Nora Ewing is a very sensible offer. NSW Probate Packets usually hold a wealth of information.
It does depend on what the NSW Supreme Court has determined to Archive, and these more recent packets that are now at NSW SRO can sometimes have been culled prior to Archiving. But as there is mention of Nora Ewing as being ‘femme sole’ and I think that Ros would likely order both Packets (Colin Russell E’s and Nora E’s), and use her own best judgement to decide on the spot if after accessing Nora’s that she may need to then access Colin’s to learn more about Nora’s birth or former names. (It can take NSW SRO up to an hour to find each packet so it is likely Ros would request both, and access Nora's first, and Colin's only if she was not finding info re Nora's former name/s.
If Nora were my ancestor, I would wait until the Probate Packet details are available before deciding if I needed to order any NSW BDM official transcriptions. ;D ;D
On the other hand, it is many a long year since I did any research into NSW Deed Poll records, and it is likely that NSW Privacy Laws/regulations/practices may have imposed stricter controls over access to the resources at the Lands Office. After all, it was ummmmm during the last but one decade of the last millennium when I was looking up several Deed Poll records, and it was not ever a ‘user friendly’ environment for fh buffs.
Cheers, JM Love these Santa Smilies ::) ::) ::) ::) :D :D :D
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Yes Nora Ewing was Nora Dowling with correct parents and changed her name by deed poll.
(how clever the rootschatters are :) ).
Give me a little while and I will upload the photos (her death cert etc) and his (and where it explains who she is).
There was also a very long contest to her will (about 5000 pages of court documents) which I skimmed through briefly to see if it involved other relatives but no it didn't . Some neighbours had been the beneficiaries of her first will when she bequeathed a small pocket of land adjacent to them could be bought for $2500 but the second will didn't mention this.
cheers,
Ros
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Yay - thanks, Ros, for letting us know. It was a great search and a real communal effort topped off with your visit to the archives!
Just a point re Henry/Harry - even Prince Harry's actual baptised/registered name is Henry.
Judith
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Absolutely fantastic. Ros thanks so much for all your efforts and to all of the other contributions made. I must say that the Australian part of Roots Chat has always been the most helpful of all and I am extremely great full to all of you
Many many thanks
Brian
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fantastic
And our OP apppreciates the team work. Thats the icing on the cake.
I will add that there is NO canteen at SRO you take a packed lunch. They have a jug and coffee powder or teabag and longlife milk....... It is way out on outskirts of Sydney on a narrow rural road with suburbia and etc growing up around it. May I guess Ros drove perhaps an hour each way. Sorry for embarassing Ros. Fortunately I have not yet met Ros or any RChatter so they cant tell me off for mentioning these offline efforts. Ros is not the only one who goes the extra mile. But she often does.
Cheers JM
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Greatly appreciated.
What a great set of rootchatters there are in Aus.
Many many thanks again
Brian