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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Bedfordshire => Topic started by: perthman on Wednesday 04 December 13 08:55 GMT (UK)
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In the 1841 census, Green families were tenant farmers at Crowhill Farm (177 acres), Greensbury Farm (300 acres) and Backnoe End (256 acres) while Mavorn Farm (180 acres) was run by the Hartop family which included an Anna Green aged 85.
My g.g.g.grandfather, John Green, was the tenant farmer at Crowhill Farm 1822-1841. I am trying to work out if some or all of the farming families were related, or if it was just coincidence.
The 1841 census shows the occupants of Crowhill Farm were (Y= born in Bedfordshire, N= not so)
* Green Ann 50, Farmer N
* Green William 22, Farmer Y
* Green Samuel 20, Y
* Green Benjamin 19, Y
* Green Anna 10, Y
* Marritt Ann 84, Ind. N
In 1839, John Green of Bolnhurst, of Crow Hill farm, was indicted as responsible for repair of highway from Thurleigh to Church lane, Bolhnurst, now in decay.
[Bedford Archives Reference WG2985 1839-40]. So Ann's husband was John Green.
A likely marriage is between John Green and Ann Marriott on 19 May 1818, in Gamlingay, Cambridgeshire. In the 1841 census an Ann Marritt aged 84 was staying at Crow Hill - one explanation is that she was the mother of Ann Green; they would have been 29-30 at the time; the ages of the children fit. Alas, no parents' names.
John Green's death certificate shows he died on 4 March 1841 at Bolnhurst, occupation farmer, aged 51 years.
A birth that fits with this is:
John Green, born 28 July 1789 in Bedford, Bedfordshire, christening 28 August 1789 at HOWARD CHAPEL MILL STREET FORMERLY THE NEW MEETING BEDFORD-INDEPENDENT,BEDFORD,ENGLAND
father William Green, mother Mary Green. Unfortunately no birth places or ages recorded for parents.
William Green marriage: 10 July 1788 at Saint Mary, Bedford, Bedford, England; spouse Mary Read.
This fits the time line nicely but it is perhaps odd that the marriage is in a church but JG is baptised in a chapel?
This is where the problems start.
Have I got the right William/Mary couple, even the right John Green?
And which William and Mary are they? There are 'eligible' Williams baptised in St Mary Bedford (1759 and 1762), Houghton Conquest (1762) and Hawnes (1765), not to mention Ampthill, Harrold and Turvey, and Marys from Bletsoe (1758), St Mary Bedford (1768) and other, more distant places.
So I have plenty of homework. I have posted this rather prematurely to stop it running on gwynd's thread titled: Greens, America Place S. Leighton Buzzard.
I suspect I will only be able to sort out my own tree by tracing all these farmers backwards (maybe to a common ancestor? That would be good!)
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Meanwhile, what I (think I) know so far about the other farms is as follows:
Greensbury 1841 census
* Chapman Elizth 40, Farmer N
* Green William 17, Farmer N
* Green Thomas 16, Y
Bornhurst parish burials shows: 30 August 1840, CHAPMAN Thomas, Greensbury, age 39, so born about 1801. Can we assume this was Elizth's second marriage and William, Thomas by her first?
We have a Green/Chapman marriage on Ancestry.com.au: Elizabeth Green marriage: 4 July 1829 at Bolnhurst, Bedford, England, spouse: Thomas Chapman. But no little Chapmans!
and we have a William Green - Elizabeth Harris marriage on Ancestry.com.au: William Green marriage: 26 February 1824 at Bolnhurst, Bedford, England, spouse: Elizabeth Harris (which just about accommodates the William and Thomas births).
I haven't found a William Green burial 1825 - 1829 yet, or tried to move back into the 1700's.
Backnoe End Farm 1841 census (omitting servants)
* Green Samuel 40, Farmer Y
* Green Sophia 39, N
* Green William 12, Y
* Green Samuel 6, Y
* Green Rebecca 1, Y
work in progress.
Mavorn Farm
* Hartop Anna 55, Farmer Y
* Hartop Benjamin 30, Farmer Y
* Hartop Samuel 25, Y
* Hartop John 25, Y
* Hartop Thomas 15, Y
* Hartop Josiah 15, Y
* Howkins William 4, Y
* Green Anna 85, Ind N
16 September 1807, marriage at Bolnhurst, Bedford, England between Jn Hartop and Ann Green.
11 Jul 1808 William Hartop Birth, Birthplace: Keysoe Row, Keysoe, Bedfordshire, Father John Hartop, Mother Anna Hartop.
03 Feb 1810 Benjamin Hartop Birth, Birthplace: Keysoe Row, Keysoe, Bedfordshire, Father John Hartop, Mother Anna Hartop.
10 Apr 1812 Samuel Hartop Birth, Birthplace: Keysoe Row, Keysoe, Bedfordshire, Father John Hartop, Mother Anna Hartop.
10 Jul 1814 John Hartop Birth, Birthplace: Keysoe Row, Keysoe, Bedfordshire, Father John Hartop, Mother Anna Hartop.
09 Aug 1790 Ann Green birth, christened 24 Sep 1790 at HOWARD CHAPEL MILL STREET FORMERLY THE NEW MEETINBEDFORD-INDEPENDENT,BEDFORD,ENGLAND Father William Green, mother Mary. This doesn't match the census, means she married at 17 and doesn't match Anna Green 85 being her mother.
30 Jun 1786 Anne Green christened at CLOPHILL,BEDFORD,ENGLAND, mother Elizabeth Peacock Or Paycock.
This doesn't look right either so work in progress, and I haven't found John Hartop birth.
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A lot of ground is covered here so I'll look at it piecemeal
A birth that fits with this is:
John Green, born 28 July 1789 in Bedford, Bedfordshire, christening 28 August 1789 at HOWARD CHAPEL MILL STREET FORMERLY THE NEW MEETING BEDFORD-INDEPENDENT,BEDFORD,ENGLAND
father William Green, mother Mary Green. Unfortunately no birth places or ages recorded for parents.
You'll be lucky! This sort of information has never been shown on English births or baptisms.
William Green marriage: 10 July 1788 at Saint Mary, Bedford, Bedford, England; spouse Mary Read.
This fits the time line nicely but it is perhaps odd that the marriage is in a church but JG is baptised in a chapel?
Not odd! Before 1837 the only places where marriages could be performed legally were the Church of England, and churches of the quakers and jews. Other non conformist churches/chapels simply were not allowed to perform marriages
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A likely marriage is between John Green and Ann Marriott on 19 May 1818, in Gamlingay, Cambridgeshire. In the 1841 census an Ann Marritt aged 84 was staying at Crow Hill - one explanation is that she was the mother of Ann Green; they would have been 29-30 at the time; the ages of the children fit. Alas, no parents' names.
This would tie in with Ann Marriotts place of birth shown in 1851 census :)
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/N8GX-YW5
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Thank you bedfordshire boy. Your historical comments are very useful to someone like me who is new to these resources.
And thank you rosie99. Yes, Great Gransden and Gamlingay are adjacent parishes so it all ties together.
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From the Admon of John Green, farmer of Bolnhurst who was buried there on 10 Mar 1841 aged 51; Ann Green & William Loxley of Clapham & Samuel Green farmer of Bolnhurst swore on oath that she, Ann Green was widow & next of kin to John Green & the estate was worth not more than £600. This was granted 19 Mar 1842.
I found the Bolnhurst burial on 8 Dec 1870 of Ann Green aged 80 whose abode was Keysoe.
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From the Admon of William Green farmer of Bolnhurst dated 8 Dec 1827 (haven't found his burial yet?); Elizabeth Green, widow & John Hartop farmer of Bolnhurst & Samuel Green farmer of Bolnhurst swore on oath that she, Elizabeth Green was widow & next of kin of William Green and estate was not more than £1500
The National Archives also has will of another William Green, farmer of Bolnhurst dated Dec 1818.
You can download it for £3.36 GBP
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/Details?uri=D227592
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Fascinating stuff. Thank you johnP. William Loxley is a surprise. In the 1841 census he is a farmer at Rookery Farm, Clapham, Beds. Perhaps his wife Mary is Ann's younger sister? Interestingly, there are several Loxleys in Colmworth.
> I found the Bolnhurst burial on 8 Dec 1870 of Ann Green aged 80 whose abode was Keysoe.
This fits neatly with a christening record for Ann:
14 dec 1789 Ann Marratt christened at Great Gransden, Huntingdonshire, father James Marratt, mother Ann.
and also promising are:
09 Oct 1785 marriage James Marritt of Great Gransden, & Ann Giddings "Otp", lic. at St Peter Church, Boxworth, witnesses Benjamin BEAUMONT and Sarah BEAUMONT.
30 Apr 1758 baptism GIDDONS Ann, St Peter Church, Boxworth, Cambridgeshire, father Robert, mother [BLANK]
and just possibly, although Yaxley is rather remote from Great Gransden,
31 Jul 1762 baptism James MARRIOT at St. Peter Pr Church, Yaxley, Huntingdonshire, father MARRIOT.
William: I cannot find the burial on FreeReg or Ancestry or Family Search (assuming I am putting in the right search parameters)
Could I ask: what does ADMON mean. I have never seen the word used before. And do these Admon have much information about the actual possessions comprising the estate or are they just a summary? I would like to get a feel for how people were living in those days. Would I be right in thinking that £1500 or even £600 was a lot of money back then?
And is "Otp" "Of this parish"?
Thanks
David
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Letters of Administration or Admons were usually issued only if property was over £5 in value and enabled family members to dispose of the estate in the absence of a will. The administrator of the estate drew up a probate account which detailed the assets and the benefactors of the estate. Admons contain little of genealogical value, however they may name several family members and occasionally contain detailed information of considerable value. They will usually be found in the administration act book or the probate act book and can now be found in County Record Offices.
taken from http://www.genguide.co.uk/
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Greensbury 1841 census
* Chapman Elizth 40, Farmer N
* Green William 17, Farmer N
* Green Thomas 16, Y
Bornhurst parish burials shows: 30 August 1840, CHAPMAN Thomas, Greensbury, age 39, so born about 1801. Can we assume this was Elizth's second marriage and William, Thomas by her first?
We have a Green/Chapman marriage on Ancestry.com.au: Elizabeth Green marriage: 4 July 1829 at Bolnhurst, Bedford, England, spouse: Thomas Chapman. But no little Chapmans!
and we have a William Green - Elizabeth Harris marriage on Ancestry.com.au: William Green marriage: 26 February 1824 at Bolnhurst, Bedford, England, spouse: Elizabeth Harris (which just about accommodates the William and Thomas births).
I haven't found a William Green burial 1825 - 1829 yet, or tried to move back into the 1700's.
I agree with this; Elizabeth Green widow of William Green (died 1827) married Thomas Chapman in 1829 & he was buried there in Aug 1840. BLARS have the will of Thomas Chapman farmer of Bolnhurst ref 1841/1. The 2 children of William & Elizabeth Green; William 1824 & Thomas 1825 were farmers at Greensbury on 1851 census. Widow Elizabeth Chapman is found living in Bedford on 1851,61,71,81 censuses being born Ramsey, Hunts in 1796. She died in Mar 1882 age 86 in Bedford RD. I noticed a baptism of a Chapman Green at Bolnhurst on 30/3/1877 to parents Thomas & Ann Green of Bushmead, Eaton Socon. A possible burial of William Green is on 5 Aug 1827 at Bedford St Peter age 26 so born 1801. Next time I'm at the Archives I will take a look at all this plus the Bolnhurst marriage on 4 Jul 1829 of William Green to Elizabeth Harris to see if says what parish she was from.
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It'd be good if you got from the National Archives the will of William Green, farmer of Bolnhurst dated Dec 1818 to see if it lists his wife as Mary & children John & Ann (now Hartop). Are you going to get it?
I wonder if he's the non-conformist who registered along with others the meeting house of Joseph Edrop in Bolnhurst in Dec 1818 ? (maybe not as he may be dead !) but it couldn't be the other William Green who died 1827 age 26 as he would not be an adult; so do we have another WG ?
The 1803 Muster List has a William Green at Bolnhust with 1 waggon, 3 horses & a driver and is also listed as a farmer class 1 (men between 17 & 30, unmarried) volunteer.
As an aside the only Greens mentioned in the Bolnhust PR up to 1812 was Ann Green who married John Hartop in Sept 1807 & an Alice Green, widow who married Thomas Kilpin, widower in Feb 1801....... so where did they come from?
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William Loxley is a surprise. In the 1841 census he is a farmer at Rookery Farm, Clapham, Beds. Perhaps his wife Mary is Ann's younger sister? Interestingly, there are several Loxleys in Colmworth.
Good hunch? or unless you've spotted this on the IGI; member contribution though so needs verifying; marriage on 3 Oct 1817 at Ravensden William Loxley of Colmworth to Mary Marriott. I found William & Mary on 1851 census living on Bromham Road Bedford, William born 1794 Colmworth & Mary Ann born 1794 Bolnhurst.
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Hello johnP-bedford.
You are way ahead of me. I did get a copy of the will and had a battle reading it.
Taking out the legal jargon the gist is this:
I William Green of Bolnhurst in the County of Bedford farmer ... devise unto my wife Anna Green
... all that my Messuage cottage and tenement situate and being at Keysoe in the county of Bedford now in the occupation of Simon George(?)
... Also I give ... unto my wife ... one annuity ... of forty pounds ...to be paid by four equal quarterly payments
... and in case my said wife shall die in the life time of our Daughter Mary Bowker(?) who now lives with me then I give
... unto the said Mary Bowker ... one annuity ... of ten pounds ... to the day of the decease of the said Mary Bowker
and I do charge... all my real estate ...with the payments of the several annuities ...
I give ... unto my daughter Anna Hartop wife of John Hartop of Keysoe aforesaid farmer the sum of one hundred pounds
...and I give ... unto my three sons William Green John Green and Samuel Green all the ... remainder of any real and personal estate
... and I ...appoint my said three sons William Green John Green and Samuel Green Executors of this my will
... In witness whereof I have hereunto set hand and seal this tenth day of July in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and thirteen
Signed ...in the presence of us...as witnesses Theed Peane(?) R H Gibbon Ino Upton
Proved at London 9th Oct(?) 1818 ...by the oaths of William Green John Green @ Samuel Green the Sons ... to whom Admon was granted .
I have spent a lot of time unsuccessfully looking for these Anna, Mary, William, Samuel and John. They don't seem to show up in what Keysoe records I can access.
I wonder if William senior "retired" to Keysoe after farming successfully elsewhere?
And I have another hunch that William senior was married twice, to a Mary, then an Anna.
I sort of like: William Green marriage: 10 July 1788 at Saint Mary, Bedford, Bedford, England; spouse Mary Read.
Interesting that he mentions "my real estate". Does this mean he is entitled to vote and so should show up in poll books?
Regarding Kilpin, "The building at Crowhill Farm dates to the end of the fifteenth century ... Richard Kilpin was there until his death in 1805 [and] he was followed by his son, William Kilpin, for nearly twenty years, until 1822. John Green, the tenant in 1823, was followed by his wife Ann Green [David H Kennett, "Bolnhurst, A Thousand Years Of Landscape",South Midlands Archaeology #19 1989 p12]"
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> As an aside the only Greens mentioned in the Bolnhust PR up to 1812 was Ann Green who
> married John Hartop in Sept 1807 & an Alice Green, widow who married
> Thomas Kilpin, widower in Feb 1801....... so where did they come from?
The Ann Green who married John Hartop must be the one in the will. Where did this whole Green family come from?
I can find only one Alice Green:
* 1799 John Green, spouse Alice Hide (or Hike) marriage in Parish: Ampthill
* 08 Mar 1801 baptism (not birth) of Jn Green at St. Andrew Church, Ampthill, Bedfordshire, father Jn, mother Alice.
If this lady also married Thomas Kilpin in Bolnhurst in Feb 1801 she was leading a pretty busy life. But not impossible. I can't find a suitable John Green burial.
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So we have William Green who wrote his will July 1813 & names 'my' daughter Anna who married John Hartop in Sept 1807; 'my' son John who marries Ann Marriott in May 1818; 'my' son William who marries Elizabeth Harris in Apr 1824; 'my' son Samuel who marries Sophia Lant of Gt Staughton in 1825. He then names 'our' daughter Mary Bowker (perhaps Bowyer?) 'who now lives with me' .... Is she a widow? Have you found a marriage of a Mary Green to a Mr Bowker? Or is she a spinster, perhaps daughter of William's second wife Anna? if indeed he was first married to Mary!
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I can find only one Alice Green:
* 1799 John Green, spouse Alice Hide (or Hike) marriage in Parish: Ampthill
Is this a possibility for Alice Green :-\
John Green
Alice Sells
Marriage 4 December 1793
Saint Paul,Bedford
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/N2LD-77M
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Good hunch? or unless you've spotted this on the IGI; member contribution though so needs verifying; marriage on 3 Oct 1817 at Ravensden William Loxley of Colmworth to Mary Marriott. I found William & Mary on 1851 census living on Bromham Road Bedford, William born 1794 Colmworth & Mary Ann born 1794 Bolnhurst.
Just a hunch. The marriage looks valid, although the record I found only states the year:
1817 William Loxley and Mary Marritt married at Ravensden, Bedford, England, father not recorded, mother not recorded
[https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NXMM-P88]
Also
27 May 1792 William Loxley christened at Colmworth, Bedford, England, father John Loxley, mother Mary [https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/JSRF-95J]
6 jun 1841 William Loxley census Age: 45-49, resident in Clapham Parish, Bedfordshire
[https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/MQRS-RP9]
He seems to have wandered away from Beds after 1851, viz
1861 census
William Loxley; Age 66 living in Fenny Stratford, Buckinghamshire
Married to Elizabeth Loxley (45) with Eliza Amesbury (27) also resident.
Born in Colmworth, Bedfordshire, England
[Registration District: Newport Pagnell; Sub-registration District: Fenny Stratford; Piece: 872; Folio: 104; Page Number: 10]
1871 census
William Loxley; Age 79 lodging in Little Bookham, Surrey with George Bond (35) and Harriet Bond (34) Born in Colmworth, Bedfordshire, England
[ Registration District: Epsom Sub-registration District: Leatherhead; Piece: 801 Folio: 88 Page Number: 17]
1881 census
William Loxley; Age 89 Widow, lodging in Effingham Village Oresham Cottage, Effingham, Surrey
Where born: Colmworth, Bedfordshire, England; Occupation: Retired Farmer
[ Registration District: Dorking, Sub-registration District: Dorking, Piece: 796 Folio: 120 Page Number: 14]
7 Apr 1883 William Loxley buried Little Bookham, All Saints, Surrey, Burial Age: 93.
[ Archive Provided Parish: Little Bookham, All Saints, Parish as it Appears: Little Bookham, Reference Number: 7503/2/1]
I got rather fixated on William for a while there!
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Thank you for your responses, rosie99 and johnP-bedford.
I apologize if I am slow to reply for the next few days. Our local power company is turning off the power each day this week from 7am to 5pm for "equipment upgrade".
David
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That's not very considerate of the power company :)
I am watching this thread as I have a remote interest in Thomas Green bn c1851 who married Louisa Fensom in 1870
Rosie
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1841 Mavorn Farm
* Hartop Anna 55, Farmer Y (+or-5 born about 1786)
16 September 1807, marriage at Bolnhurst, Bedford, England between Jn Hartop and Ann Green.
09 Aug 1790 Ann Green birth, christened 24 Sep 1790 at HOWARD CHAPEL MILL STREET FORMERLY THE NEW MEETING BEDFORD-INDEPENDENT,BEDFORD,ENGLAND Father William Green, mother Mary. This doesn't match the census, means she married at 17 and doesn't match Anna Green 85 being her mother.
I am away at the moment but have just seen your post re the Green family.
Part of my tree ‘brushes’ the Hartop family so I had this information which I hope may help.
When John and Anna Hartops children’s births’ were registered at Dr Williams Library, Redcross Str, Cripplegate, London as children of Protestant Dissenters, their mothers name was given as Anna Green daughter of William and Ann Green;
Witness present at whole of the birth;
Hannah George and Kezia Robinson (midwifes perhaps) who made their marks plus William Brown and John Reynolds witness to the marks of witnesses
For the birth of William also present was Thomas Peck, Surgeon
Their children were;
1.William Hartop of Keysoe Row Parish of Keysoe Beds birth reg 13 Apr 1815 born 11 Jul 1808.
2.Benjamin Hartop of Keysoe Row Parish of Keysoe Beds reg 13 Apr 1815 born 3 Feb 1810. Benjamin Hartop died 1851
3.Samuel Hartop of Keysoe Row Parish of Keysoe Beds reg 13 Apr 1815 born 10 Apr 1812
4.John Hartop of Keysoe Row Parish of Keysoe Beds reg 22 Oct 1816 born 10 Jul 1814
From the census John and Anna Hartop also had sons;
Thomas Hartop 1826 and Josiah Hartop 1826 Keysoe.
Later on the 1851 and 1861 census Ann Hartop (nee Green) says she was born 1783 at Thurleigh. If Ann Hartop was also NC (perhaps Baptist) then you may not find her baptism. I have had similar problems with NC
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Cannot see how the Bedford St Mary's marriage on 13 July 1788 of William Green to Mary Read is the same William Green of Bolnhurst. This was by licence and the transcript of this says William was aged 21+ and a Dyer of St Marys & Mary was a minor with consent of her father, who was John Read, painter of Bedford & he gave surety.
These parents most likely be responsible for John Green born 28/7/1789 baptised 28/8/1789 & Ann Green born 9/8/1790 baptised 24/9/1790 from the non-conformist registers available from Ancestry, where there abode was St Marys Bedford - not a mention of Bolnhurst. If they were baptising children then where's siblings William & Samuel ?
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I found the Bolnhurst buiral on 2 Apr 1837 of John Hartop abode Mavorn aged 64 - so born 1773, most likely son of Thomas & Sarah (ne Sabey). I also found the Bolnhurst burial of Ann Hartop abode Keysoe on 23 Feb 1863 aged 81 - so born 1782; which tallies with her 1851 & 1861 census entries born 1783. So we know this is Ann Green but she is NOT the daughter of William & Mary Green of St Mary's.
John Hartop, farmer of Mavorn left a will dated 24 Feb 1837 where he appoints his wife Anna & 'her brother' Samuel Green executors & administrators to allow them to use the estate 'until my youngest child shall reach age 21'. This was witnessed by Thomas Chapman of Bolnhurst who married the widow Elizabeth of their brother William Green. Will proved 9 Dec 1837 effects not more than £600
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I William Green of Bolnhurst in the County of Bedford farmer ... devise unto my wife Anna Green
... and in case my said wife shall die in the life time of our Daughter Mary Bowker(?) who now lives with me then I give .......
How about ? from the BFHS paper Bedfordshire Strays; William Green of Nether Dean married Ann Bowker, widow of Spaldwick, Hunts in 1781
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The only male Bowker marriage to an Ann/Anna in Hunts was in 1774 at Easton, next door to Spaldwick; Samuel Bowker and Anna Bridgeford both otp. There's a burial of Samuel Bowker in 1777 at Alconbury cum Weston, 3 miles or so from Easton/Spaldwick, which may or may not be relevant. It needs reference to the parish registers to see if there's any other detail.
I can't see what happened to Mary Bowker though
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Thank you everyone for your replies. I can hardly keep up!
The rational for why I was sold on William Green and Mary Read being John's parents is this -
At Crowhill Farm on 6 jun 1841 the residents were:
* Green Ann 50, Farmer N
* Green William 22, Farmer Y
* Green Samuel 20, Y
* Green Benjamin 19, Y
* Green Anna 10, Y
* Marritt Ann 84, Ind. N
Court records name the missing husband as John Green, alive in 1839. So he died between 1839 and 6 jun 1841.
John Green's death certificate says farmer, died 4 mch 1841 at Bolnhurst, aged 51. So born March 1789 - March 1790.
28 July 1789 John Green born Bedford, Bedfordshire, father William Green, mother Mary Green - dovetails neatly.
[https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/F77N-NZR]
and christened at HOWARD CHAPEL MILL STREET BEDFORD-INDEPENDENT,BEDFORD, on 28 Aug 1789.
[https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/V5VS-7YK]
So father William, mother Mary.
19 May 1818 this John Green marries Ann Marriott in Gamlingay, Cambridgeshire, a parish adjacent to Great Gransden where Ann was christened 14 dec 1789.
Ann's mother is staying at Crowhill in 1841.
I don't see how this John can be William (of the will)'s son John unless William married twice.
Was another John Green born locally in the same year? Where did William (of the will) and all his children come from? I haven't been able to find this family grouping anywhere in Bedfordshire, Cambridgeshire or Huntingdonshire.
David
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So we have William Green who wrote his will July 1813 & names 'my' daughter Anna who married John Hartop in Sept 1807; 'my' son John who marries Ann Marriott in May 1818; 'my' son William who marries Elizabeth Harris in Apr 1824; 'my' son Samuel who marries Sophia Lant of Gt Staughton in 1825. He then names 'our' daughter Mary Bowker (perhaps Bowyer?) 'who now lives with me' .... Is she a widow? Have you found a marriage of a Mary Green to a Mr Bowker? Or is she a spinster, perhaps daughter of William's second wife Anna? if indeed he was first married to Mary!
I think that should be Sophia Cant [https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/N6W2-7N5] which fits in with other connections with Backnoe Farm.
The script does look to be Bowker. If you wish to see I can email you pictures of the name.
There were a few Bowkers in Huntingdonshire, at Alconbury-Weston, Glatton and Yaxley, but none seems to have compelling relevance. No Bowkers that I could see in Cambridgeshire or Bedfordshire.
I also tried Booker, Baker and Barker and variants in case the clerk misheard the name. For what its worth, possibly relevant are
16 Jul 1798 marriage Wm BARKER and Ann SMITH at St. Swithin Church, Sandy, Bedfordshire
[http://www.freereg.org.uk/cgi/SearchResults.pl?RecordType=Marriages&RecordID=1619943]
21 Jul 1805 marriage Robert BAKER and Ann BATES at St Botolph Church Cambridge
[http://www.freereg.org.uk/cgi/SearchResults.pl?RecordType=Marriages&RecordID=394719]
24 Jan 1833 marriage Mary Booker and William Talbott at Aspley Guise,Bedford,England
[https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/N2LN-NNP]
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I don't see how this John can be William (of the will)'s son John unless William married twice.
Was another John Green born locally in the same year? Where did William (of the will) and all his children come from? I haven't been able to find this family grouping anywhere in Bedfordshire, Cambridgeshire or Huntingdonshire.
Ann Green who married John Hartop was born in Thurleigh (Blacknoe Farm was in Thurleigh Parish) but does not appear to have been baptised perhaps because the Green family were NC. IF she was John's sister then perhaps he also as not baptised. PERHAPS the family were in Bolnhurst earlier but not evident on the IGI because they did not belong to the established church??
As I mentioned the Hartops 'brush' my baptist Sabey's (Baptists do not christen their children). John was the tenant of Blacknoe Farm which may have passed to his son William who did not have children and left his estate to the children of his sister Sarah who was probably the mother of John Hartop and Ann Green's mother in law.
Another avenue perhaps for you to consider is the name Howkins/Hawkins
In 1851 Ann Hartop 1783 Thurleigh is a widow and visitor a widow with Elizabeth Hartop aged 37 born 1814 Thurleigh a Farmer 181 acres Cross End Thurleigh ? children Elizabeth 1843, William 1844, Anna 1843 and her sister Lettie Howkins 1826 Thurleigh was EH ?widow of Benjamin ?Elizabeth Hawkins
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I had been wondering about the Howkins because
* in 1841 William Howkins age 4 was staying with the Hartop family at Mavourn Farm.
* in 1868 Annie Howkins Hartop (age 21, born 1847) married Frederick Jenkinson Wood in Thurleigh, Bedford, England, spouse's father Benjamin Hartop; and I seem to recall reading somewhere that it was common to use the bride's maiden name as the second forename for their children, so that some time before 1847 there was a Hartop/Howkins marriage.
The 1861 census includes Thomas Howkins, age 39, farmer at Bury Farm (of 620 acres employing 24 men and 6 boys). That is a big farm.
A Lellice(?) Howkins, widow aged 50, was head of the family there in 1841.
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As you say, Hemmum, it does appear likely that the Green family were NC.
Maybe two John Greens really were born in the local area in 1789 and it is the John mentioned in the will who was my g.g.g.granddad.
Coincidences happen. Being the son of a Dyer wouldn't be a great qualification for becoming a farmer; being the son of a farmer would.
I wonder if we can extract anything useful from the will besides the names of the family?
* The will refers to 'my' wife, 'my' William, 'my' John, 'my' Samuel and 'my' daughter Ann, but 'our' Mary. PERHAPS this indicates that current wife Anna was a second marriage? He also says: "I give unto my said wife Anna Green all those two bedsteads with the bedding and furniture thereto belonging which belonged to my said wife before her marriage with me". Is that normal?
* Would it be usual to list the sons in order of seniority, implying William was older than John who was older than Samuel?
Ann was born in 1782 and John in 1789. PERHAPS we should be looking for William born before than 1789, Samuel born after 1789?
* As the sons are executors, does this mean they are all 21 or over in 1813, and all born in or before 1792?
PERHAPS William made his last will in 1813 because his youngest son became 21 then?
* William gives to 'my' wife Anna Green ... my Messuage cottage and tenement at Keysoe in the county of Bedford now in the occupation of Simon [George].
Does this mean he is a land owner and in turn does this mean he is eligible to vote, and will appear in poll books?
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The 1861 census includes Thomas Howkins, age 39, farmer at Bury Farm (of 620 acres employing 24 men and 6 boys). That is a big farm.
A Lellice(?) Howkins, widow aged 50, was head of the family there in 1841.
I think you need to find the marriage of William Howkin. Below are the registration of his and Lettice's children;
John Howkins the son of William and Lettice of Thurleigh Beds born 7 Jan 1813.
Also: Elizabeth Howkins born 7 Mar 1814. William born 22 May 1816. William born 22 May 1816. Emma Howkins born 7 Feb 1818. Ancestry NC births. Bedford, Old Meeting House, Mill Lane (Independant). Then registered as baptised 26 Dec 1827. Ruth Howkins born 22 Sep 1819, Thomas Howkins born 24 July 1821, Ann Howkins born 26 Jan 1824, Lettuce Howkins born 25 Dec 1825, Hannah Howkins born 25 Apr 1827. All of Thurleigh etc
There was also a Soloman Hawkins who as a farmer in Keysoe registering children around the same time, who was also a baptist ministier who moved to Blunham. Not sure if he is relevant
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* The will refers to 'my' wife, 'my' William, 'my' John, 'my' Samuel and 'my' daughter Ann, but 'our' Mary. PERHAPS this indicates that current wife Anna was a second marriage? He also says: "I give unto my said wife Anna Green all those two bedsteads with the bedding and furniture thereto belonging which belonged to my said wife before her marriage with me". Is that normal?
It was Anna's second marriage & the "bedsteads with bedding which belonged to my said wife before her marriage to me" were from her previous marriage to Samuel Bowker who she married in 1774 & he died in 1777 & who William Green of Nether Dean married in 1781. Their first child Anna was born 1782 & she married John Hartop in 1807. Their childrens' non-conformist baptism states her mother was Anna Green. Next child was John 1790, next came Samuel 1799 & then William 1801.
Think you should pursue the Bowker name; while the 'my' daughter & sons were from the union of William & Anna, he could not put Mary Bowker as 'my' daughter as she wasn't his; so she either was his step-daughter via Samuel & Anna or his illegetimate daughter by Anna Bowker !
I say forget the Howkins possibility
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Thank you John. Great detective work. It is very satisfying to be able to step back one generation into the 1700's.
I was lucky Mary Bowker was in the will. I suspect that without her we would never have got back to William of Nether Dean. But we are probably not related. For my family tree she is a footnote. The main game now is William Green of Nether Dean and Anna Bridgeford of Easton. Where did they come from and who were their parents?
The Howkins are interesting but they are for another day.
The one thing that puzzles me is the birth dates of the sons Samuel and William. Even if Ann Bridgeford married young, say 18, she would have been 43 when Samuel was born and 45 when William was born. And both boys would have been minors when the will was written and indeed when it was proved. Were minors allowed to swear oaths to prove a will back then?
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William Green's wife/widow Ann/a was age 85 when found on the 1841 census at Mavorn, Bolnhurst with widow Anna Hartop & family. I have found a possible burial for her at Bedford St Peters on 5 Feb 1850 where an Ann Green aged 90 has her abode as St Peters. Thus Ann was born at the earliest in 1756 & thus married Samuel Bowker when she was 18 & married William Green when she was 25.
I've also found a possible burial of William Green born 1801 again at Bedford St Peters on 5 Aug 1827 age 26 where his abode is Bedford.
But not found burial of William Green, farmer of Bolnhurst whose will was proved Dec 1818.
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I trace my family history to John Green of Crowhill Farm through his second son Samuel, who was at Crowhill in the 1841 census and still there in 1881.
In 1850 Samuel married Mary Ann Eads from Yelden, which is right next door to Nether Dean. PERHAPS the center of gravity of the family back then was not Bolnhurst but Nether Dean? PERHAPS there was a family plot there and William was buried there rather than Bolnhurst?
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Perhaps he's one of the family of the many Greens buried at Dean, which you will find at http://www.findmypast.co.uk/search/parish-records/baptisms (the burial section). But there's no William. And as there are only two Green burials in Bolnhurst perhaps you might be right that Bolnhurst wasn't the centre of the Green universe.
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Went to Hunts Archives this morning;
(1) Spaldwick marriage on 27 Feb 1781 William Green of Nether Dean, Beds to Ann (signs Anna) Bowker, otp, widow. Witness Thomas Green.
(2) Easton marriage on 4 Apr 1774 Samuel Bowker bach, otp to Anna Bridgeford, sp otp; witnesses David Bowker, Sarah Taylor, William Taylor
(3) Easton baptisms. 18 Oct 1774 Samuel, son of Samuel & Hannah Bowker. 29 Jan 1776 Mary daughter of Samuel & Hannah Bowker
(4) Alconbury cum Weston burials. 18 Nov 1777 Samuel, son of Samuel Bowker & his wife. 17 Mar 1776 Samuel Booker. The Alconbury PRs link Bowker with Booker & I was concerned as to the burial of the adult Samuel Bowker until I saw the transcribed Monumental Inscription at Alconbury of Samuel Bowker who departed this life on March 15th 1776 age 28.
So it looks like William Green of Bolnhust who died 1818 was 'of Nether Dean' when he married Anna Bowker at Spaldwick and took on her daughter Mary born 1776 who would be 37 in 1813 when he made his will.
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John, marvelous stuff. Thank you.
The Bedfordshire Pollbook 1784 records a Thomas Green residing in Dean Neather in his own house and on his own land. So he was fairly wealthy.
[http://abacus.rabancourt.co.uk/bedfordshire-pollbook-1784]
Our William Green of Nether Dean was fairly wealthy when he died in Keysoe. Surely the two gentlemen must have been related?
And
> (1) Spaldwick marriage on 27 Feb 1781 William Green of Nether Dean, Beds to Ann (signs Anna) Bowker, otp, widow. Witness Thomas Green.
Father and son?
Is there a will that has survived for Thomas, or an Admon ?
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I have two Cooper families in Henlow, Bedfordshire. Like Green, it's a common name. I too thought "Surely the two families must be related". If they are I've not found any connection and I'm now sure that they're not.
Thomas and William. Brothers? Cousins? Only researching the two names will show the relationship, if indeed there is one.
BLARS has an Admon for a Thomas Green of Dean, farmer Ref A 1749/8. Father, grandfather?
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A couple of burials that might be part of the story are
5 Jun 1748 Thomas GREEN burial at All Hallows, Dean, Bedfordshire, Age at death: [not given]
[http://www.findmypast.co.uk/records/nbi/details/246527?pf=1]
4 Apr 1788 Thomas GREEN burial at All Hallows, Dean, Bedfordshire, Age at death: [not given]
[http://www.findmypast.co.uk/records/nbi/details/246872?pf=1]
The former fits with the Admon. The latter would permit this Thomas to be the witness at the 1781 wedding and/or the voter in the 1784 poll book.
Not having the ages doesn't help - no way of knowing if these Thomas Greens lived long enough even to be relevant, and without the age the trail peters out.
I'm pinning my hopes on the Admon for Thomas Green of Dean, farmer Ref A 1749/8.
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I'm pinning my hopes on the Admon for Thomas Green of Dean, farmer Ref A 1749/8.
It doesn't help you that much as it doesn't name any children. It has that Elizabeth Green of Dean, widow; Robert Wagstaffe of Dean, brother; & Israel Howard, schoolmaster of Dean swore on oath that she, Elizabeth Green was widow & next of kin of Thomas Green, farmer of Dean.
So we are looking for a marriage of Thomas Green to Elizabeth Wagstaffe ? which was not at Dean according to Dean's PR; however a Thomas & Elizabeth Green baptised the following at Dean;
8 Mar 1740 Ann
18 Sept 1743 Thomas
24 Nov 1745 William
They also buried daughter Elizabeth on 13 Aug 1742 but could not see her baptism
The Thomas Green who was buried 4 Apr 1788 was a labourer - so not a wealthy farmer! he might well be son of John & Mary Green baptised 5 Oct 1735. John Green, shepherd was buried 11 Oct 1781
A Thomas & Mary Green (haven't found marriage) were baptising children at Dean between 1797 & 1803, then Mary was buried 24 Jan 1804. Thomas Green widower then married Elizabeth Tebbut on 19 Nov 1804 - they then had 2 more children who subsequently died, as did 2nd wife Elizabeth buried 17 Oct 1809. Thomas then married Sarah Goodman on 12 July 1812.
However datewise I think we've skipped a generation, don't think the Thomas b 1743 would be the one fathering children 1797-1808 when he would be aged 54-65.
Also Dean also has a marriage of William Green to Sarah Gale on 11 Oct 1788 & Sarah wife of Willam was buried 11 Jan 1790.
So there is no conclusive proof that these William & Thomas Green are those on the Spaldwick marriage.
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They also buried daughter Elizabeth on 13 Aug 1742 but could not see her baptism
05 Jan 1738 Elizabeth Green christened at DEAN, Bedfordshire, father Thomas Green, mother Elizabeth
[https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/JM2D-KRS]
It seems there were a couple of Wagstaff families living in Dean at the time, for example
10 Nov 1735 marriage between Sarah Wagstaff and John Harold at Dean, Bedfordshire
[https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/N2SV-XQJ]
and, mysteriously:
01 Jun 1736 marriage between Elizabeth Wagstaff and Richard Mott at Dean, Bedfordshire
[https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/N2SV-CV4]
I wondered if perhaps Richard Mott died almost immediately and Elizabeth remarried, but no, they had children -
20 Aug 1738 Elizabeth Mott christened at Dean, Bedfordshire, father Richard Mott, mother Elizab
[https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/J384-H2C]
And while we are in the realm of coincidences
1739 marriage between Jane Green and John Wagstaff at Ravensden, Bedfordshire
[https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NXMM-J4Q]
However datewise I think we've skipped a generation, don't think the Thomas b 1743 would be the one fathering children 1797-1808 when he would be aged 54-65.
It seems that way. We need another will!
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However datewise I think we've skipped a generation, don't think the Thomas b 1743 would be the one fathering children 1797-1808 when he would be aged 54-65.
I have second thoughts about this.
If Thomas (christened 18 Sep 1743) was the father of William (married 27 Feb 1781), there would have been two weddings in 38 years - possible but tight. There would have to be a Thomas Green/ ? marriage around 1762.
However, if William (married 27 Feb 1781) is also the William (christened 24 Nov 1745) then
* he married age 35, and the witness could be Thomas his older brother aged 37
* first child Anna born 1782, William aged 37
* next child was John born 1790, William aged 45
* next child was Samuel born 1799, William aged 54
* last child William born 1801, William aged 56
* he died age 72
which is also within the bounds of possibility.
Thomas (christened 18 Sep 1743) could be the 1784 voter and a later marriage would make sense (if, indeed, he married). Could it be, for example:
[results for Name: thomas green, Event: Birth, Place: bedfordshire, Event Range: 1742-1744, Country:England]
09 Oct 1771 marriage between Thos Green and Eliz Mehew at Dean, Bedfordshire, when he was 28
[https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/N2SV-DBW]
I wonder if Elizabeth Green remarried. In 1748 she has a farm and three young children to look after: Ann(8), Thomas(5) and William(3). If she didn't remarry, would Thomas become head of the household on reaching age 21?
Can we find out when Thomas died and if he left a will?
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The 1803 Muster List for Dean covered men aged 17 to 55*. There was only one Green, Thomas a shoemaker with 5 children under 10, in class 4. He could have been in class 4 on two possible counts;
- married men over 30
- married men 17-30 with more than 2 children under 10
There are no Thomas Green burials in Dean after 1788, but he didn't leave a will, nor does BLARS hold any Thomas Green of Dean will after the 1749 admon . We ie you, can find burials at http://www.findmypast.co.uk/search/parish-records/baptisms
* So Thomas born 1743 ie age 60 in 1803, would have been too old to have been included in the muster
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09 Oct 1771 marriage between Thos Green and Eliz Mehew at Dean, Bedfordshire, when he was 28
[https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/N2SV-DBW]
That marriage has Thomas Green of Chelveston, just across the Northants border; a Thomas & Elizabeth Green were baptising children there 1772 - 1786 - take a look here http://www.rushdenheritage.co.uk/Villages/index-villages.html
Just a point here... if William Green did not baptise his children in anglican church because he was non-conformist what's the chance that he was not baptised there himself as his father was similarly NC. I have noticed that some Greens of Dean were listed as baptised 1832 to 1843 on the Higham Ferris Methodist Circuit (found on that rushden heritage website), are there any records prior to 1813? I think you need to pursue this area.
Also I've just found marriage in Beds Strays paper of Thomas Green if Dean to Mary MAPISH of Catworth, Hunts in 1796. ** He must be the Thomas Green on the 1803 Muster List. They had baptised 5 children up to 17 June 1803.
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We ie you, can find burials at http://www.findmypast.co.uk/search/parish-records/baptisms
I'm sorry. I have just been thinking out aloud. As I am now.
There were dozens of Green families in Beds. And Nether Dean is right on the corner of three counties, so Hunts and Northants also come into the equation - in all a couple of hundred Green families or more. How can I avoid being overwhemed by all these families? I think by following the money.
I have been lucky so far, first with Ann Marritt at Crowhill Farm in the 1841 census, then with Mary Bowker in the will and some excellent advice on RootChat. The next potential piece of luck is that William of Nether Dean was fairly well-off. He is likely to have been part of a well-to-do Green family living in Nether Dean. There can't have been many of them. Which brings us to Thomas who had a vote.
I agree that because William was NC, his parents may also have been. But maybe I will get lucky again: "Visitations by the Bishop of Lincoln to Bedfordshire in the early 18th century give some idea as to the number of nonconformists in each parish from returns made by the vicar or rector. Information for Dean includes the following: 1720: “We have about seventy eight Familyes [sic], two Familys of Dissenters, both Independents”. “We have no meeting house”." [http://www.bedfordshire.gov.uk/CommunityAndLiving/ArchivesAndRecordOffice/CommunityArchives/LowerDean/RegistrationAndEarlyReferencesInLowerDea.aspx]
Dean doesn't sound like a hotbed of religious upheaval in 1720. Another piece of luck would be that it was William who converted to NC and not his parents, and that William was christened in 1745.
I feel my best line of enquiry, which I am working on, is to try to answer questions like: where did Elizabeth come from? What happened to Elizabeth after Thomas snr died? Did she leave a will? Did Thomas jnr take over the farm? (And out of interest, which farm was it?) Did he marry and have children? When did he leave Nether Dean, where did he die, did he leave a will there? When did William leave Nether Dean and go to Keysoe? Hopefully I will find some answers to support or disprove that 'my' William of Nether Dean was baptised in 1745.
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There is an interesting marriage which may relate to 'my' Anna Bridgeford, born about 1756.
27 April 1752 marriage between Samuel Bridgford and Anna Addington at St Mary's, Huntingdon [https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NKNC-QY3]
(or at St. Mary's And St. Benedicts, Huntingdon) [https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/N67P-3QK]
The marriage is in the right time frame, and it is fairly local to Nether Dean. The ladies have the name Anna in common, noting that Ann Bowker signed Anna at her 1774 marriage; perhaps a coincidence, possibly handed down from mother to daughter. Of about 75 Ann Bridgeford's pre-1760 that I have looked at, just 3 have been the Anna variant.
Sticking with the Anna theme, this also looks interesting:
01 Mar 1723 Anna Adington christened at Great Staughton, Huntingdon, father Johannis Adington, mother Anna Adington [https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/J3L9-SZ2]
The information is rather contradictory though. There are also
10 Nov 1721 Anna Addington christened in Great Staughton, Huntingdon, father Johanny Addington, mother Anna Addington
[https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/N85P-KJC]
13 Dec 1718 Anna Adington christened in Great Staughton, Huntingdon, father Joannis Adington, mother Anna Adington
[https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/N85P-FQW]
At least the Anna doesn't vary.
I cannot find a baptism record yet for either Anna Bridgeford or Samuel Bridgford. If they were NC perhaps I never will.
David
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I think I have found the burial of William Green, farmer of Bolnhurst whose will was proved Dec 1818. - At Little Staughton, grave 0169 has a Limestone/headstone/4'high/3'wide/facing West/ engraved:
'In memory of/WILLIAM GREEN/who departed this life/July 21 1818/aged 71 years'.
[THE MONUMENTAL INSCRIPTIONS OF THE BAPTIST CHAPEL LITTLE STAUGHTON BEDFORDSHIRE]
This implies his birth was in 1746/1747 - sufficiently close to 24 Nov 1745 for this William to be the William baptised at Dean by Thomas & Elizabeth Green?
Recently, I managed to spend a half-day in the Bedford and Huntingdon Archives. Nowhere near long enough. At Bedford I searched the Francklin papers. They are very extensive; the index is a small book. Four folders looked promising: FN 1001, FN 1002, FN 1008, FN1009. Sadly, FN1001 and FN1008 are 'too fragile' to be available to the public. So that avenue of research is closed!
Intriguingly, a half year rent bill for Crowhill Farm dated 8jan1824 was made out to Mr William Green while the half year rent bill the following year (13jan1825) was made out to Mr John Green.
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I think I have found the burial of William Green, farmer of Bolnhurst whose will was proved Dec 1818. - At Little Staughton, grave 0169 has a Limestone/headstone/4'high/3'wide/facing West/ engraved: "In memory of/WILLIAM GREEN/who departed this life/July 21 1818/aged 71 years'.
[THE MONUMENTAL INSCRIPTIONS OF THE BAPTIST CHAPEL LITTLE STAUGHTON BEDFORDSHIRE]
I think you are right, these monumental inscriptions can be downloaded from.....
http://www.colmworthhistory.org.uk/#/other-downloads/4531713997
....as it also includes the grave of Mary Bowker age 30 (165) daughter of Samuel & Anna Bowker who is mentioned in his will.
There is another William Green & ANNA wife of William Green plus 3 children of William & Anna, but am not sure if these relate to the William Green buried 1818
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Mary Bowker's grave - well spotted John. I simply searched the list for Green and missed it. Mary baptised Jan 1776, died March 1817 so aged 41 but 30 on the gravestone. It seems you can't believe everything you read on gravestones.
There are eleven Green graves in the Little Staughton Baptist graveyard (twelve counting Mary).
I suspect they are mostly one family; that graves 0162-0169 (1803-1827) were a sort of family plot for William that ran out of space, so that graves 0151-0153 (1853-1891) had to be located away from the main group. Grave 0182 (1841) may be unrelated.
I think the little group of graves 0151-0153 are the family of Samuel Green and Sophia (nee. Cant)
0153 SAMUEL GREEN who died 4th Sept 1866 aged 68 years [so born ~1798]
/also SOPHIA his widow who died 9th June 1884 aged 84 years [so born ~1800]
where
* Samuel is the son of William (grave 0169) and Anna Green, born 1798/99
* 3 June 1800 Sophia Cant christened at Great Staughton, Huntingdon, father Thos. Cant, mother Ann
* 7 June 1825 marriage Samuel Green and Sophia Cant at Great Staughton, Huntingdon. The marriage was by licence and Samuel Green made an oath that he and Sophia were over 21 and that she had lived in Great Staughton 'for the space of 15 days last past', and described himself as a yeoman
* 1861 census, Samuel (62) and Sophia (61) are farming Backnoe End
* 1871 census, Sophia (71) retired farmers wife living in New St, St Neots; 1881 census, Sophia (81) still in New St, St Neots
0152 WILLIAM GREEN son of SAMUEL & SOPHIA GREEN who died July 6th 1853 age 24 years
* in 1851 census William is a widower, age 22, born Bolnhurst, living at Backnoe End with his parents.
0151 SARAH JANE the wife of SAMUEL GREEN who died November 17th 1889 aged 62 years [so born ~1827]
/also in memory of SAMUEL GREEN born August 24th 1834 died October 7th 1891
* Samuel born August 24th 1834 was I believe son of Samuel & Sophia Green, and took over Backnoe End farm from his parents
* marriage registered October-December 1866 Samuel Green and Sarah J Robinson, (St Neots, Hunts, Page 0689 Volume 3B)
* 1871 census Backnoe End: Green Samuel (36) head, born Bolnhurst, Beds, farmer of 256 Acres employing 8 men 3 boys;
Green Sarah J (40) wife, born Carlton, Beds. In 1881 census location is called Mount Pleasant, ages are 46 and 52.
I suspect the graves 0162-0169 all relate to William Green who died 1818 (grave 0169) but I haven't got my head around them yet.
0169 WILLIAM GREEN who died July 21 1818 aged 71 years, so born 1746/1747 (and who wrote the will in 1813)
Grave 0164 is particularly interesting - this Anna Green is the right age to be William's mother. So perhaps there is a marriage William Green/Anna unknown in about 1742-1747? Haven't found it yet.
0164 ANNA GREEN wife of WILLIAM GREEN who died on the 23rd October 1815 age 90 [so born 1724/1725]
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Not sure if this helps you find the marriage of William Green to an Ann ??
(still trying to find my missing Sabey marriages, again NC!!). But Anna Green who married John Hartop in 1807 at Bolnhurst was the daughter of a William and Anna Green as when the Hartop children births were registered at Dr Williams Library in London.
William Hartop of Keysoe Row in the Parish of Keysoe Beds born 1808 reg 1815 son of John Hartop and Anna Green daughter of William and Anna Green
Then Benjamin born 1810 reg 1815, Samuel born 1812 reg 1815, John Born 1814 reg 1816.
Again sure if it is relevant but John Sabey a Baptist had a Farm at Blacknoe which passed to his son William then to his daughter Sarah who married Hartop.
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Thank you Hemmum
The Anna Green (1782-1863) who married John Hartop in 1807 was the daughter of William Green (1746-1818) and Anna Green (1756?-1850?)(nee Bridgeford) who William married as the widow Anna Bowker in 1781. This William Green is buried in grave 0169. If gravestone 0164 is to be believed, William Green's parents may also have been a William and Anna, married in a time frame say 1742 (Anna 18) to 1746/7 (William jnr born)
I think at one stage you mentioned an interest in the names Howkins/Hawkins. If you haven't already looked at the monumental inscriptions in
http://www.colmworthhistory.org.uk/#/other-downloads/4531713997 there are 3 graves for Howkins, 1 for Houchen, 5 for Ekins and 9 for Hawkins. No Sabeys.
And in case you haven't seen it, while in the Archives I found a document 'Inhabitants of Boulne-Hurst 22may1750' with a list of farmers including the entry
Farmers Denom Landlord Rent
...
Saby John Diss John Lawson Esq 45 Backenhoe (Hse)
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Hi Perthman
My interest is Sabey , Elms and White. I have looked at the other families out of interest and wondered who looked after 'my' Francis Sabey after his mother died in 1774.
John Sabey was probably Francis' grandfather and John Lawson owned John's farm
From the 1750 census there was a non-conformists John Saby, farmer, of Backenhoo House. His landlord was John Lawson & the rent was £45.00. 8 people recorded as living in his household
My notes re Blacknoe.
The MANOR OF BACKENHO in Thurleigh was owed by John Lawson in 1738 and 1739. In 1753 John Lawson, probably a son and Theodosia his wife were in possession.
Later two other manors grew out of this and became more important - Whitwick known as Thurleigh Hall and Backnoe. None of the older manor houses has survived although the present Blackburn Hall contains chimneys from an earlier dwelling.. in 1707 Blackborne Hall was purchased by Sir Nathan Wright. He died in 1727 and was succeeded by his son Sir Nathan Wright, who in 1733 sold this property to Robert Bell, the maternal grandfather of William Wade Gery, in whose family the property has remained, the present owner being Mr. W. H. Wade-Grey.
The MANOR OF BACKENHO is first found mentioned in 1377
George Smythe was holding the manor in 1637, but in 1672 had given place to William Smythe, whose name occurs in settlements of the manor in 1674, 1682, and finally in 1693, in which year a genuine alienation took place to John Lawson. The latter held Backenho in 1738 and 1739. In 1753 John Lawson, probably a son of the above, and Theodosia his wife were in possession, and between this date and 1792 it passed to James Stuart and May his wife. This property was retained by the Stuarts till late into the 19th century. In 1860 Colonel George Stuart died owning Backenho, at this time a farm, which he left to his nephew.
BACKNOE END, a hamlet in the parish of Thurleigh, 1 mile north of Thurleigh. Backnoe End Farm was n of Backnoe End left off Keysoe Rd opposite turn to Rd to College Farm
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I wonder if the Anna Green buried in grave 0164 could be the Hannah Baxter reported in the Community Contributed IGI as marrying William Green in Titchmarsh, Northampton on 6 November 1743 (or William Greene on 6 November 1744, depending on who you believe).
Titchmarsh is just 8 or 9 miles from Nether Dean. Hannah would have been about 18 or 19.
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To answer my own question: the Titchmarsh PR rules this out: it has 6 Nov 1743 marriage William Green & Hannah Baxter botp; 22 Nov 1745 baptism Mary d/o Wm and Hannah Green; 31 May 1748 baptism Hannah d/o Wm and Hannah Green; but no baptism of a William Green jnr. Presumably, had they had a son they would have baptised him.
The Community Contributed IGI lists 13 William Green/Ann marriages throughout England during 1740-1746 but most were in locations a long way from Nether Dean. Any one of them is possible but Green is a common name and all are probably irrelevant.
The Community Contributed IGI does mention one other marriage in Northants: 20 April 1741 William Green of Woodford, Northamptonshire (birth: about 1715) married Ann Coleman at Eydon, Northamptonshire. This looked promising because although Eydon is about 40 miles from Nether Dean, Woodford is near Thrapston. However the Eydon PR has 20 Apr 1741 marriage William GREEN otp to Ann COLEMAN otp. So the Woodford is presumably Woodford Halse, not Woodford by Thrapston. Hard to see why the couple would move the 40 miles to the Nether Dean area.
The only other prospect at this stage is William Green, birth: 4 Nov 1745, christening: 4 January 1754 Holywell-cum-Needingworth, Huntingdon, father: William Green. The father is not baptising infants and the birth date is close. No mother's name recorded.
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Hi, I came across your info on the net, Sophia Cant's parents would be Thomas Cant and Ann Hansen/Hensen. Thomas Cant is my 3rd Great Grandfather, my GG Grandfather, George Cant was born in Great Staughton, Huntingdon in 1798 and round about 1839 he got a free trip to Tasmania, and then went onto South Australia in about 1839 when his wife died 1840. :)
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Hello Jackie
Thank you for your message. It sounds like George Cant was Sophia's elder brother. I haven't researched that branch of the family because the Cant's are not in my direct line of descent.
The Little Staughton Baptist graveyard where Sophia is buried is a pretty, peaceful spot, should you ever be in the area. In fact you can do a virtual drive-by of the cemetery on Google Earth these days.
The wonders of the Internet!
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I have been mulling over the story of Ann Marriott who married John Green in Gamlingay, Cambridgeshire on 19 May 1818.
I think it goes like this:
[1] 04 Nov 1741 Robert Marriot married Margaret Pearce in Swavesey, Cambridgeshire; by banns [findmypast]
and had children William (bapt. 03 Oct 1742), Mary (bapt. 20 Apr 1744), Robert (bapt. 01 Jun 1747)
[2] 12 May 1752 James Marriot was baptised in Swavesey, Cambridgeshire; father Robert, mother Margaret
Notes: inf [infant?, infirm?] [findmypast]
Meanwhile ...
[3] 30 Apr 1758 Ann Giddons was baptised in St Peter Church, Boxworth, Cambridgeshire, father Robert Giddons [findmypast]
[4] 02 Jun 1762 Robert Marriot buried in Swavesey, Cambridgeshire [findmypast]
[the only burial of a Robert Marriott recorded in Swavesey 1749-1789, or indeed anywhere in Cambridgeshire]
It is possible that James married twice. If so, the first (shotgun?) marriage lasted just nine weeks ...
[5] 10 Sep 1778 James Marrit (BT Marriot) (otp) married Ann Dodson (otp) in Swavesey, Cambridgeshire; by banns [findmypast]
[6] 19 Oct 1778 Thomas Marriot buried in Swavesey, Cambridgeshire; Note: son of James & Ann [findmypast]
[7] 16 Nov 1778 Ann Marriot buried in Swavesey, Cambridgeshire; Note: wife of James [findmypast]
James then got another lady into trouble ...
[8] 16 Nov 1783 James Marritt Giddings baptised at Boxworth, Cambridgeshire, mother Ann Giddings [findmypast]
Some time before 1785 James (a farmer, see 12) moved to Great Gransden ...
[9] 9 oct 1785 marriage James Marritt (bach of Great Gransden) and Ann Giddings (spin otp), in St Peter's Church, Boxworth, Cambs, by licence
[Phillimore 1909 Cambridgeshire Parish Records v3 p10 has marriage; licence is not in Cambridge Marriage Licences 1594-1979]
[The Great Gransden Parish Register has just four Marratt records. There is no continuous history of the family there:
27dec1783 marr Thomas Bannister (X) bach otp and Elizabeth Marrat
16sep1787 baptism Sarah Marratt d of James [farmer BT] and Ann
18jul1789 burial Margaret Marrat, widow
14dec1789 baptism Ann Marratt d of James [farmer BT] and Ann
]
[10] 11 Sep 1787 Sarah Marratt baptised in Great Gransden, Hunts; father James Marratt, mother Ann [Great Gransden PR]
[11] 18 Jul 1789 burial of Margaret Marrat, widow [is this Margaret Pearce?] [Great Gransden PR]
[12] 14 Dec 1789 Ann Marratt baptised at Great Gransden, Huntingdonshire, father James Marratt [farmer-BT], mother Ann [Great Gransden PR]
Then the family moved back to Swavesey ...
[13] 26 Jun 1791 Samuel Marriot baptised in Swavesey, Cambridge; father James Marriot, mother Ann [findmypast]
[14] 11 Jun 1793 James Marriott buried in Swavesey, Cambridgeshire; son of James & Ann [so probably a child] [findmypast]
[15] 12 Jan 1794 Eleanor Marritt baptised in Swavesey, Cambridge; father James Marritt, mother Ann [findmypast]
[16] 26 Jul 1795 James Marriott baptised in Swavesey, Cambridge; father James Marriott, mother Ann [findmypast]
[17] 22 Oct 1797 Joseph Maritt baptised in Swavesey, Cambridge; father James Maritt, mother Ann [findmypast]
[18] 19 May 1818 marriage John Green and Ann Marriott in Gamlingay, Cambridgeshire
[19] 29 Jun 1845 Ann Marriott (formerly Giddons) buried in Bolnhurst, age 87 (born about 1758) [Bolnhurst Burials #180]
[20] 8 Dec 1870 Ann Green (formerly Marriott) buried in Bolnhurst aged 80 (born about 1790) [Bolnhurst Burials #288]
I can't find the death of James Marratt. There is
03 Jun 1846 James Marriott (otp) buried in Swavesey, Cambridgeshire; age 76 (so born about 1770 - the age doesn't look right)