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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Buckinghamshire => England => Buckinghamshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Cockneyrebel on Tuesday 03 December 13 12:27 GMT (UK)
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The above was son of John Healey and Ann nee Kings and baptised at Winslow 27 Feb 1806.
At 1841 he was living in Stewkley with his wife, Rachel and 4 children but by 1851 he was a widower living at 6 Chapel Place, Bermondsey, London with a further 2 children.
I've been unable to find his marriage to Rachel her maiden name, birth or her death.
Could some kind person find this information for me?
Cr
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According to FamilySearch(IGI).
James HELEY, married Rachel LONON, 27 March 1831 @ Stewkley.
Rachel LONON is shown as born in County(Bucks) in the 1841 census
I would ask BucksFHS for a marriage look up(£1) from their database, which may give more detail, if you don't have access to the archives. I would also suggest a baptism look((£1) up for Rachel LONON.
Variants of surnames is not uncommon.
As he's is a commercial traveller in 1851 census, there is a death for Rachel HEALEY, o/n/d - 1851. Caistor, Lincolnshire. And another death in o/n/d 1847. Luton, Beds. The Luton one seems most likely.
Steve. :)
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Hi Bucksboy,
I'm wondering if with the name of Heley he was in fact not the one in London in 1851 but in Stewkley according to Ancestry as a carpenter with Rachel and children?
Cr
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Aha. ;) ;D
1851 census. (as transcribed by Ancestry).
Living in Stewkley.
James HALEY. c1806. Stewkley, Bucks. Occ. Carpenter & ?. (Hard to read). :-\
Rachel. c1811.
Sarah. 1835
Hanah. 1838.
George. 1840.
Mary. 1845.
Elizabeth. 1848.
All born Stewkley.
Steve. :)
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1861 census, as transcribed by Ancestry as HELEY.
James. c1807. Occ. Master Carpenter.
Rachel. c1810.
George. c1840.
Mary. c1845.
Elizabeth. c.1847.
All born Stewkley.
Steve. :)
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1871 census. Stewkley
James HELEY. c1809. Stewkley. Occ. Carpenter & Builder.
Rachel. c1810.
Elizabeth c1848.
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1881 census. Stewkley
Rachel HELEY c1810. Stewkley. Widowed. Occ. Retired grocer.
Jno. Coles. c1843. Wing, Bucks. Son in law.
Mary Coles. c1845. Stewkley. Daughter.
Elizth Heley. c1848. Stewkley. Daughter.
Plus other Coles children born Stewkley.
Possible death. Rachel Hailey. abt.1808. Died j/f/m 1886. Winslow district.
Probate 18 Feb 1876 - James HELEY, died 9th Dec 1875. late of Stewkley. To Rachel HELEY of Stewkley, widow of relict. Effects under £100.
Steve. :)
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Well done bucksboy, I think we're going in the correct way now despite the changes of surname over the years.
Thank you very much for your research and advice.
Cr
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Just to confirm the right chappie. (This is the family in London in 1851 census, minus wife Jane.)
1841 census
Living at, St Mary The Great, Cambridge.
James Haley c1806. n.b.i.c. occ. Hatter.
Jane. c1811. n.b.i.c.
James. c1837. Cambridgeshire.
Jane. c1839. Cambridgeshire.
Steve. :)
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Looks like they are the correct ones in 1841 at Cambridge after all, I wonder how easy it was to get from Winslow to Cambridge in those days?
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And the same family in 1851 census in Bermondsey, London.
So, James Heley born 1805 Stewkley, is not yours.
So now looking for a marriage for James Healey(c1806.Winslow) to a Jane ? ? ?. around 1835 to 1838. Buckinghamshire, Cambridgeshire, or maybe London. ;)
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A new twist to James Healey has occurred, from another family tree on Ancestry it appears that he married Jane Watkins Welchman in 1835 at St Marylebone and she died in 1849 at 6 Chapel Place, Bermondsey, which is where James was living in 1851.
It seems he went to NZ and died there, leaving his and her effects to the son James.
What a confusing tale.
I think we can call this complete now.
Thank you for all your help tracking the family down.
Cr
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Seems that way, and IGI confirms a baptism in Cambridge of James Frederick Healey in 1836, to James & Jane Watkins Healey. ;)
Nice to sort them out though. ;D
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We can say it's definitely completed.
Cr
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Hello - I have James HEALEY born 27.2.1806 Winslow, Buckinghamshire; Married Jane Watkins WELCHMAN, 10.9.1835, All Saints, Marlebone, Westminster, Middlesex.
Jane born 17.4.1808 Ditcheat, Somerset. Died 21.2.1849 Bermondsey, Surrey.
CHILDREN James Frederick B. 1836 City of Cambridge. Jane Watkins B. 31.7.1838 Cambridge Town. Charlotte B. 1840. Thomas B. 1842 Cambridge Town. Emma/Emily B. 1846 England.
Parents of James - ?John/Charles Philip & Ann KINGS. parents of Jane Watkins - Thomas WELCHMAN and Mary Ann GRANT.
After Jane Watkins died the family went to New Zealand.
James Frederick (enclosed berth) per"Rajah" arriv. Port Chalmers, South Island 1853; Jane Watkins per "Palmyra" 1858 Dunedin, South Island.
James Frederick M. Flora Ada SHARP & D. Dunedin, 1912; Jane Watkins M. William Henry HONNOR & D. 1926; Thomas N/M & D. 1906 Arrowtown; Emily M. James BARTLETT & D. 1935 Nelson. I feel Charlotte may have died in England.
Their Father - James D. 24.11.1858 New Zealand
I am new to this site but hopefully I have added correctly, to the tree.
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Hi MHGC,
I agree with the majority of what you say and wasn't aware of the emigration dates for James F and Jane W.
However there was no Charlotte born 1840 to James and Jane. On checking the new GRO indices I found Mary Ann b Q2 1840 Cambridge who passed away 24 Feb 1849 in Southwark, Surrey, England at 6, Chapel Place which was 3 days after her mother, so perhaps of the same disease?
Mary Ann was buried 1 Mar 1849 with her mother at the Wesleyan Southwark Chapel.
James's father was John Healey b 1784 at Sandford, Oxfordshire and his mother b 1783 in the same place.
How do you relate to the family? James was my 2 x gt uncle.
You'll need to post another 2 times before we can contact each other by pm.
Cr
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Thank you cockneyrebel - for Mary Ann B. 1840. However, on Cambridge Family History Society 1841 Census there is James, Jane, james, Jane then Charlotte 1year. All St. Mary the Great, Cambridge with same Film No and Folio No. BUT curiously also Charlotte 1year again, with different Folio No. ?? Mary Ann/ Charlotte - confusing.
I made a mistake with Jane Watkins' arrival. 1856 per 'Strathmore' to Port Chalmers. I don't know when James Snr. arrived in N.Z. but think in 1849.
My husband is decended from Jane Watkins HEALEY who married Henry HONNOR (from Uxbridge,England) Their daughter Helen/Helene married Edward MOSS (from Australia - his Mother was a Convict from Scotland and his Grandfather MOSS a Convict also - from Suffolk -both sent to Van Diemens Land/Tasmania) My husband is originally from N.Z.
So, 92nd cousins! Thanks again.
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Thank you MHGC for the update on Jane's emigration, Strangely James Snr was in Bermondsey, London in !851 so unless he went and then returned from NZ in 1849, he must've migrated after 1851 but didn't live long there.
As to Charlotte, she doesn't appear on the 'official' 1841 census and not on the new GRO indices either, perhaps they recorded her as Mary Ann but called her Charlotte in Cambridge?
I'm aware of the Honnor relationship to Healey and also the Moss family and have 2 photos of Emily and Henry Moss which I got from the net. There is also a Noonan connection too I believe?
I'd imagine that your husband is probably my 4th cousin so not so distant other than in miles!
I've 7 Healey related cousins at present so maybe he could become the 8th?
Cr
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Hello cockneyrebel - thanks again. This game opens up more riddles then we have time to solve. Haven't been in Fam. History for ages but a cousin of Gary's from N.Z. rang and is keen for info. So... interest rekindled. We visited Friston and area in 2006 and saw a Moss on a memorial in the churchyard.
I presume the Henry and Emily photos are Edward moss's children. Would just love to see them.
I really don't know what you don't know, of course, but if there is anything that I MAY know I'd love to pass it on.
You mentioned NOONAN. Edward MOSS and Helen HONNOR's child Edith married Joseph England NOONAN in Auckland. 1916.
Back in 2010 a Lord Martyn (I found on Ancestry) and decended from emma WELCHMAN helped me enormously with that side of the Healey/Welchmans. Bye for now
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Sent you a personal message.
Cr
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Thank you cockneyrebel - for Mary Ann B. 1840. However, on Cambridge Family History Society 1841 Census there is James, Jane, james, Jane then Charlotte 1year. All St. Mary the Great, Cambridge with same Film No and Folio No. BUT curiously also Charlotte 1year again, with different Folio No. ?? Mary Ann/ Charlotte - confusing.
I made a mistake with Jane Watkins' arrival. 1856 per 'Strathmore' to Port Chalmers. I don't know when James Snr. arrived in N.Z. but think in 1849.
My husband is decended from Jane Watkins HEALEY who married Henry HONNOR (from Uxbridge,England) Their daughter Helen/Helene married Edward MOSS (from Australia - his Mother was a Convict from Scotland and his Grandfather MOSS a Convict also - from Suffolk -both sent to Van Diemens Land/Tasmania) My husband is originally from N.Z.
So, 92nd cousins! Thanks again.
Sorry for butting in. Your Henry HONNOR, do you know when, and to who he was born.?
I have Honnors in my tree, so there just maybe a connection.
Steve. :)
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Hi bucksboy,
Henry Honnor was born in Uxbridge, Middx, at 1851 his father vwas recorded as Charles White b c 1817 in Brill and mother Hannah bc 1810 Ruislip, so presumably his real father passed and Hannah remarried, he had a brother William aged 18 too.
According to the London baptisms register,he was bapt16 Jan 1835 his father was Joseph a butcher, mother Hannah, at Uxbridge St Margaret.
There appears to be another Henry Honnor b q3 1837 Great Missenden,Bucks registered Amersham whose mother was Pearce according to the new GRO indices.
Cr
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Hello again - 'my' William (Henry) HONNOR 24y; married Jane Watkins HEALEY 20y; 13.6.1859 Episcopal Church, Dunedin. Very little on M/C but I have his parents Joseph HONNOR & Hannah BRAY. Born c1835 Uxbridge. Baptised Parish Uxbridge in St. Margaret's; Borough Hillingdon. ??
Arrived on "Palmyra" Feb. 1858 - Gravesend 28.10.1857 - the Downs - left Deal 31.10.1857 for Dunedin.
They lived London St. Dunedin for many years then Henry and Jane divorced 1903 in Napier, Sth Is. N.Z. Henry must have gone to the North Is. as D/C 1906. 72years; N.Z. 48y; Married 24y; Carpenter; 7daughters & 4 sons. Buried Herekino, Northland, North Is. Same one?
I'll get back to the Healeys soon, as an Aunt ?G. Aunt had all sorts of stories about them, which I have not been able to verify. She thought they were aristocracy in England! Don't know what she thought when I found the Moss/Thompson Convicts, as I had no contact with her. It's interesting getting back into the histories, but time-consuming!
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Hi bucksboy,
Henry Honnor was born in Uxbridge, Middx, at 1851 his father vwas recorded as Charles White b c 1817 in Brill and mother Hannah bc 1810 Ruislip, so presumably his real father passed and Hannah remarried, he had a brother William aged 18 too.
According to the London baptisms register,he was bapt16 Jan 1835 his father was Joseph a butcher, mother Hannah, at Uxbridge St Margaret.
There appears to be another Henry Honnor b q3 1837 Great Missenden,Bucks registered Amersham whose mother was Pearce according to the new GRO indices.
Cr
Yes, that Henry Honnor was baptised 1837 @ Great Missenden to Henry & Elizabeth Honnor, 'of Potters Row'.
He would fit in somewhere in my tree, but not chasing him down.
I have Joseph Honnor, b.1760 Great Missenden, but died in Greenford, Middx, and buried in Great Missenden. Son of Thomas Honnor(1726) & Martha King(1730).
Greenford is close to Uxbridge, so that's why I thought there maybe a connection.
It was just a thought.
Steve. :)
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MHGC, i'm a bit confused about the divorce from Jane, seems strange after 44 years of marriage!
Cr
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Yes, I understand cockneyrebel but I don't know how long they had been living apart. The last child Herbert, died at 5years in 1872. I'll search up some writings of the 'Aunt' I remember she said how Jane had gone to live with Helene and Edward MOSS. More searching. I'm now wondering if he left a Will. On Jane Watkins Healey/HONNOR 's D/C -Marital Status - Not Recorded. Mother Mary Ann Welshman and Father Frederick William. ? I don't know who gave the information but Jane was 87years. ???????????
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Hi MHGC,
Whoever registered Jane's passing obviously got her parents wrong! I could find no reference to a Will for Henry on Ancestry but perhaps NZ records are better?
Did you get my personal message?
Cr
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There is an electoral record for Jane at 1911 living at Queen St Hastings with Thomas, a tailor and Nellie Honnor? Who are they?
Cr
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Hello - yes Jane Watkins HEALEY 73yrs in 1911; must have been with Thomas (1864 - 1935) and his wife Ellen Winifred CALLUM. I don't know the ins and outs of her story except that she left Henry and went to live with Helen and Edward MOSS, taking the 'young ones' with her - dying 1926 in Christchurch. Henry went to the North Is. ???
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Perhaps it's the same old story Henry with no honour went off with a younger woman!
Cr
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Well, nothing surprises me!! Our esteemed ancestors had life tougher, of that, I'm sure.