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General => Armed Forces => World War Two => Topic started by: Nutley on Saturday 30 November 13 15:00 GMT (UK)
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Has anyone heard of the 40th survey regiment? I am researching my Late Father's time during WW2. He was in Burma and was Captain with the RA. I thought he was with the 40th survey regiment, but cannot find any information on this. I know that I can apply for his service records through the MOD. However, in the meantime I wonder if anyone can throw any light on the survey regiments.
Thank you.
Sally
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There were only 11 Survey Regiments during the war. Nos 1 and 2 served in India and Burma. By coincidence I just purchased (literally two days ago) a copy of this book (as the ebook version was only a fiver):
http://www.pen-and-sword.co.uk/Larkhills-Wartime-Locators/p/1333/
I've only had a chance for a quick look through it but there are some detailed chapters on Burma and the work of the Survey Regts there. Might be worth an investment.
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Hi, Thanks for your response. Well, this is exactly what I thought - there were only 2 survey units in Burma. I found information on my Father on www.unithistories.com/officers/Army_officers_GO2.html
My Father is (was) Greenwood.James Eric. Maybe you could go on to the site and see if you can enlighten me.
Will have a look at the book.
Thank you for your interest.
Sally
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Just read the intro. on the book. Very interesting because I know my Dad was at Imphal. It would appear that my Father must have been in 1 or 2 survey groups. I wonder when the author of unithistories.com got the 40th survey regiment from?
Sally
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It appears that your father corresponded with the author of the aforementioned book :) There are atleast 4 or 5 brief mentions of him in it.
He served with the 2nd Survey Regiment in Burma (so that link is wrong). There is even a group photo with him in it.
So might be a worthwhile investment.
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in 1942
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Well, would you believe it!!!! I am sitting here with loads of photographs and I have the exact same one, only my copy has my Father on it - he is far ,far right. Poor Dad he was obviously cropped out!!! Gosh I am going to get the book. This is brilliant now I know who he was with I can research the events and places he experiened. Thank you so very much.
If my friends "Seaweed" and Frank have read this link - how amazing is this chaps?
Sally
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Sorry, just downloaded photo properly and Dad is there.
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Ok, I see how the unithistories site made the mistake. Eric was a cadet in the 40th Survey Training Regiment from which he was commissoned
The undermentioned, from R.A. (Cadets, 40th Survey Training Regiment), to be 2nd
Lts. 8th Mar. 1940: —
Charles William BRYANT (124825).
Arthur Cunningham PRIOR (124831).
Jocelyn Campbell KELSEY (124828).
William Ernest NOON (124830).
Ivan Neill TURNER (124837).
John William BRAILSFORD (124824).
James Eric GREENWOOD (124827).
Gilbert Hattersley KING (124829).
Richard Arthur RADFORD (124832).
Arthur Philip Heberden ROGERS (124833):
Leonard Chester SMITH (124834).
William Hammond SMITH (124835).
John WALMSLEY (124838).
Richard Fox (124826).
David John SCOTT (124836).
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Ah,Ah, thankyou for clearing that one up. I will actually contact them so that they can correct the information.
Meanwhile have downloaded the book on to my i pad, I will look forward to reading it.
Thank you so much for your help.
Sally
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Thought this might interest you. Seems members had to be quite fit for survey duty
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Good morning! very interesting photo - thank you.
Evidently , (ref.the book) Massimo Mangilli must have entered into a dialogue with my father.
When my father was about 80 or so ,he joined the Burma Star Association at their Ewell Surrey branch.
I remember thinking that it was an interesting thing for him to do bearing in mind he had never spoken of his war years. However, I think he quite enjoyed the involvement and subsequently sat on the committee. Sadly now their are very few Burma Star veterans left. I suspect that Massimo contacted the Burma Star to help in his research for the book and I would guess that my father responded accordingly.
Thanks to you I now have some factual information on my Father from which I can now research? planning to have a lazy Sunday afternoon delving into the past. If you are interested I will keep you posted with any snippets which are of particular interest.
If you stumble across any more information, it would be hugely appreciated.
Sally
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My Father, in the Rugby team shaking hands with The Viceroy of India. Location: Delhi, Date: unknown. I guess early 1946.
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Hi Sally
It might be worth contacting the author. As with all projects, authors end up with a lot more material than they can use in their books and he may have additional stuff he might share with you.
I would love updates on your research :)
I found this taped interview on the Imperial Warm Museum site. It gives a flavour of life in the unit, and the theatre of operations. It's split into three parts (click "next" under the audio window to listen to the next reel)
Case, Ronald (IWM interview)
British NCO served with 2nd Survey Regt, Royal Artillery in GB, India and Burma, 1939-1945
http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/80025509
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Great mind think alike, had exactly the same thoughts with regards to contacting the author.
I think that I found his E Mail address, I am pretty sure it is him. So I have sent off a message,we'll see what comes back. Meanwhile have listened to the tapes, quite enlightening I must say. I'll keep you posted.
Sally
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Up-date. Contacted author - received a wonderful response.
He has given me a contact here in the U.K. (Massimo now lives in Northern Italy). The contact was a Captain serving in the same 2nd survey regiment as my Father. Also have found this fellow on the group photograph. I have just sent him an E Mail. Eagerly awaiting his response.
I assume this chap was the source for the book and not my Father.
Massimo also sent me 2 cartoon Christmas cards sent in 1943 and 1944 from the 2nd survey regiment. They are priceless. Unfortunately I could not post them on this site because 'file too large'
apparently, so sad, because, would have loved to have shared this with you.
Sally
Sally
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Hi Sally
Thank you for the update. Wonderful to hear that the author has replied, and so positively.
Hope the UK contact can provide information.
If you look in the acknowledgements section of the book, your father is listed as someone that the author corresponded with directly.
Pity about the photos. I will PM you
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Hi
On behalf of Sally
Christmas card 1943
Yours Aye
BruceL
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Hi All
As promised 1944 Christmas Card from Sally
Yours Aye
BruceL
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Thank you Bruce for posting the Christmas Cards.
I have discovered that there are more drawings by Frank Reynolds. All of which relate to the 2nd Survey Regiment and include such things as a drawing of a Christmas Lunch 1944, scenes from the troop ship etc. I found the complete listing at The National Army museum.
www.nam.ac.uk/inventory/objects/results.php?shortDescription
However, there are no images on line. I have E Mailed them so hopefully will get a response soon.
All the entries, it would appear have originated from "The Burma Memorial Collection".
I have E Mailed the Burma Star Association to see if they have copies.
I have a feeling though that the material is now kept at "The School of Oriental & African Studies at The University of London". I found it very difficult to make head nor tale of their web site, but, it does seem evident that detailed information is not available to the Public on line.
Meanwhile, I contacted the Gentleman who the author of "Larkhills" suggested I contacted. He has replied, but has had a spell in hospital and has just returned home and feeling a little below par, he has promised to get back to me later when he feels a little brighter.
Spikey, you are right. Evidently my Father did correspond with Massimo Mangilli - amazing. The acknowledgements in the book make this very clear.
So , all a little frustrating as far as making headway in my research. But, I am not one to give up.
Sally
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Hi
I know it's some time since the last post, but my grandad was Frank Reynolds, and the drawings are amazing! He was a commercial artist and the survey corps used his drawing talents to assist in maps and surveying.
He described to me (he didn't speak about much of the War) the outpost huts where the surveyors were based (ahead of enemy lines) that were basically mud huts with sharpened bamboo sticks pointing out. There is a picture of this, exactly as he described.
He said that he was ahead of his own 'line' mapping out transport routes, and to get to the huts, the African guides (May be Kenyan?) went barefoot and kept their army issue boots around their necks to keep them dry!
Because they didn't have all the colours, or good/spare paper, the drawings are on odd pieces and shapes and all have the stamp on them to approve them.
I'll try and upload one in the next few days - there are about fifty wartime drawings I think,
We did speak to the Burma Star / Imp War Museum etc but they weren't interested.... I guess they have a lot of pictures.... Burma always seems a forgotten part of the War (grandad was very cross about that too) he died a few years ago, so we are keen to keep this unforgotten.
Ella
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P.s.!
A couple of drawings were put into a book 'The Nomadic Soldier' by Cliff Russell
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Just read the intro. on the book. Very interesting because I know my Dad was at Imphal. It would appear that my Father must have been in 1 or 2 survey groups. I wonder when the author of unithistories.com got the 40th survey regiment from?
Sally
Here's a list of his units war diaries from WW2. They are available to view or copy at the National Archives and he should be well documented in the files being an officer.
WO 166/1970 ROYAL ARTILLERY: SURVEY REGIMENTS: 2 Survey Regiment. 1940 July- 1941 Dec.
WO 166/7262 ROYAL ARTILLERY: SURVEY REGIMENTS: 2 Regiment. 1942 Jan.- Dec.
WO 166/11483 2 Regiment 1943 Jan., Feb.
WO 167/572 2 Survey Regiment Royal Artillery 1939 Sept.-1940 June
WO 169/9432 2 Survey Regiment 1943 Dec
WO 172/2401 Survey Regiments: 2 Survey Regiment 1943 Mar.- Dec.
WO 172/4751 Survey Regiments: 2 Regiment 1944 Jan.-Dec.
WO 172/7493 Survey Regiment: 2 Regiment 1945 Jan.- Dec.
WO 172/10124 2 Survey Regiment 1946 Jan.- Sept.
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Hello Ella and Drew, isn't it great when you stumble across a link to your family. Amazing your Grandfather was Frank Reynolds. I contacted The National Army Museum some time ago and they do have quite a number of your Grandfather's drawings - they are under copy right for years. The museum in Chelsea is currently undergoing a major refurbishment, once completed the drawings can be viewed but alas not on line.
Drew, I assume this is also the case with my Father's unit's war diaries. I suppose the only way I can see them is by going to Kew in person. Thanks so much for giving me the reference numbers. If I get over to Kew can I then take copies? Any idea if and when the information would be available on line?
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Hi Sally
The files haven't been digitised but they are available to view at TNA in person. The procedure for a first visit is:
1) Get a Readers Ticket. You go upto the 2nd floor, and fill out a form. When presented at the desk, they take a photo and print out the card right there. You will need to take two pieces of ID with you.
2) Once you have the Ticket you can request the files. That is on the 1st floor and the reception desk are very helpful. The files take upto 45 mins to arrive but you can order upto 6 files at any one time. Once you return a file you can order another. So one can get through quite a few files if one gets the rhythm right.
3) When you order the files you want, you are asked to choose a table. Pick one with a camera stand. The stands use the universal camera screw and you can set it up so that you don't have to hold the camera. I've gotten excellent results using a simple point and shoot that has a 4x zoom.
4) Try to go on a Tuesday or Thursday.....they are open till 7 rather than 5. You'd be amazed how much one can get done in two extra hours.
5) Take sammies and snacks. The canteen isn't exactly cheap and there aren't any shops that close.
6) Take pencils (without erasers). They don't like pens.
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Alternatively you could ask the National Archives to copy any of the files for you although their current rate is over £1.00 per page or you could commission me to copy any of them for you at 10p per page.
Spikey you can only order 3 files at a time up to a maximum of 21 files at anyone time in your locker. They are currently running around 60 to 70 minutes to deliver files.
Any questions about Kew just ask....I'm there most weeks doing research.
Cheers
Andy
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Hi Andy
I was there last Thursday, and I was allowed up to 6 files. Admittedly, I already have a readers' ticket, so I pre-ordered the first batch of files online the day before. But this was only my second visit, and I remember being able to order 6 the first time too, back in Feb.
As for the waiting times, I suppose it depends on the files. All mine were AIR 29 files, and infact arrived within 20 mins. But I suppose it depends upon how busy they are and how obscure the files.
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Hey up,
Yes, you can pre-order six different files if you already have a readers ticket but it's 3 at a time after that when you are there.
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Well, either way, war diaries are mighty tomes, so it's not like one gets to twiddle one's thumbs waiting, lol. I was there 9 hours on Thursday and only managed to photograph 6 sets of ORBs. That's without the luxury of actually reading them!! Still, it should keep me busy going through 1600 photographed pages :P
Sally, even if you take up Andy's kind offer in this instance, I would recommend a visit at least once, just because it is a great feeling holding documents that were written/typed in that period. And there is nothing more "fun" than trying to read and photograph stuff typed on war economy paper (it's like the toilet paper one used to get in schools lol).
Anyway, enough digressions on this thread...sorry.
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Hi Spikey and Drew, thanks chaps for the excellent information provided on Th National Archives Office.
The question is how much will need to be copied?
Sally
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Hi Sally
Unit War Diaries vary greatly in thickness depending on who was writing them. No two diaries are the same and in many cases as well as the daily entries as to what a unit was doing and where they were doing it many also contain standing orders, operational orders, some contain sketch maps, nominal rolls and all these add to the total number of pages in anyone file. On average I would say war diaries contain between 200 to 400. Some do contain more and some less-It is a bit pot luck on the thickness.
Cheers
Andy
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P.s.!
A couple of drawings were put into a book 'The Nomadic Soldier' by Cliff Russell
My grandad is Cliff Russell. He wrote that book.