RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Essex => Topic started by: peterbroscombe51 on Saturday 30 November 13 09:38 GMT (UK)
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Hello,
Thomas Welham was born on 7th June 1859. His birth certificate shows his father as George and mother Mary formerly Springate. I have not been able to find their marriage on GR, FreeBMD, or Family Search. Can anybody find it for me?
Thank you in advance
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Is it possible that Mary could have been married before?
Jackie
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I've looked, - & cannot find a Marriage for those names on FindMyPast in that time-frame.
Are you positive about Mary's surname?
Romilly.
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Romilly,
Thank you foryour reply. As stated in my introduction, the name Springate was taken from a copy of Thomas's birth certificate, which I have bought.
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I see from the 1861 census ( from another thread re Thomas) that Thomas's sister Harriet was born in Suffolk about 1851 so maybe they married in Suffolk as Mary was born there , tho I can't see a marriage for Springate/ Welam, unless Mary was married before
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Romilly,
Thank you foryour reply. As stated in my introduction, the name Springate was taken from a copy of Thomas's birth certificate, which I have bought.
A birth certificate would give the mothers maiden name and would not indicate whether she was previously married.
Where do you have the family on census in 1861 :-\ Just off to look as I see Jan has found it :)
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Rosie , 1861 census on Ancestry has them mistranscribed as WELLAND
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Thanks Jan57, I looked back on the other post you referred to. No wonder I couldn't see it ;D
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This is just supposition... but there's a Marriage for:
Name: MOULDEN, Mary Ann
Registration district: Witham
County: Essex
Year of registration: 1856
Quarter of registration: Apr-May-Jun
Volume no: 4A
Page no: 383
MarriageFinder™: Mary Ann Moulden married one of the following people :
SPRINGATE, Alfred
Could that be a possibility?
Romilly.
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All Saints, West Ham
George Welham
baptised November 15th, 1857
son of George Henry and Mary Ann.
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Rosie , 1861 census on Ancestry has them mistranscribed as WELLAND
1861 I think this is them transcribed as WELLAND, original looks like Wellham , but the 'fancy' ending of the 'M' was presumably mistook for a 'd' by the transcriber
Class: RG 9; Piece: 1055; Folio: 66; Page: 10
& Bennets Terrace West Ham
George Welland 35 born Suffolk Railway worker
Mary Welland 33 born Hadbury Suffolk
Harriet Welland 10 born Hadbury
Henry Welland 11 born Hadbury
George Welland 4 born West Ham
Thomas Welland 2
jan57 I hope you don't mind me transferring the info you found from the other post in case it helps us here ;)
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Chelmsford Chronicle = 16th November, 1866
George Welham age 40yrs, a navvie of 12 Francis Street committed a rape on his own daughter,Harriett,
a girl of 15yrs. The girls mother died of cholera in August last, leaving a family of six children.
Three days after to the mothers death he forced her into bed with him, the other five children sleeping in the same room when the offence took place.
He had since been carrying on an illicit intercourse with her. The girl got ill, she told her aunt and the circumstances were communicated to the Society for Protection of Females, who then told the police and he was arrested.
He now stands remanded for the testimony of the medical witness.
Another report says the aunt is an Elizabeth Green, sister of the girls mother and married to a George Green.
:-X :-X
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George and Elizabeth Green in West Ham in 1871, = RG10; Piece: 1624; Folio: 169; Page: 40
and in Kersey Suffolk in 1861 = .RG 9; Piece: 1136; Folio: 5; Page: 4;
George Green married Elizabeth Simpson in the Cosford district of Suffolk in 1856.
1851 has an Abraham and Mary Simpson in Hadleigh Suffolk, the two eldest children are a John Springett and Mary Ann Oxer. = HO107; Piece: 1790; Folio: 355; Page: 18
Suffolk Marriage Index has
Abraham Simpson
Mary Springate
3rd March, 1831
Hadleigh.
There is no indication that Mary was a widow, so the aforesaid John and Mary Springett may have been illegitimate.
Henry Oxer married Mary Ann Springett in Cosford district in 1849.
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What a horrible story...:-(
I wonder what happened to Harriet?
Romilly.
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What a horrible story...:-(
I wonder what happened to Harriet?
Romilly.
At least that little snippet about the Green family led us to Mary Springetts origins. :-\
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Horrible man that George was !
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Marriage 3rd March 1831 Hadleigh Suffolk
Abraham Simpson + Mary Springate
1841 Hadleigh Suffolk
Abraham Simpson 35
Mary 30
John Springett 15
Marian .......... 13
Simpson children
Jackie
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Thank you to all. You know the saying, you can pick your friends, but not your family. There is always some dirty linen hiden in the family and this is so in this case
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Hi,
I have started a family tree for our decorator, Brian Wellham. Thomas in 1871 census is shown as an inmate of West Ham workhouse. In 1881 census he is listed as a soldier in Portsmouth Barracks.
RobPhill
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RobPhill,
Thank you for information concerning Thomas. Do you think it is a good idea to exchange information on the Welham family? If so please send personal message with your email address and we will take it from there.