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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Essex => Topic started by: peterbroscombe51 on Saturday 30 November 13 09:38 GMT (UK)

Title: Parents of Thomas Welham, born 1859, in West Ham, Essex
Post by: peterbroscombe51 on Saturday 30 November 13 09:38 GMT (UK)
Hello,
       Thomas Welham was born on 7th June 1859. His birth certificate shows his father as George and mother Mary formerly Springate. I have not been able to find their marriage on GR, FreeBMD, or Family Search. Can anybody find it for me?
       Thank you in advance
Title: Re: Parents of Thomas Welham, born 1859, in West Ham, Essex
Post by: jacquelineve on Saturday 30 November 13 10:15 GMT (UK)


   Is it possible that Mary could have been married before?

Jackie
Title: Re: Parents of Thomas Welham, born 1859, in West Ham, Essex
Post by: Romilly on Saturday 30 November 13 10:22 GMT (UK)

I've looked, - & cannot find a Marriage for those names on FindMyPast in that time-frame.

Are you positive about Mary's surname?

Romilly.
Title: Re: Parents of Thomas Welham, born 1859, in West Ham, Essex
Post by: peterbroscombe51 on Saturday 30 November 13 12:47 GMT (UK)
Romilly,
          Thank you foryour reply. As stated in my introduction, the name Springate was taken from a copy of Thomas's birth certificate, which I have bought.
Title: Re: Parents of Thomas Welham, born 1859, in West Ham, Essex
Post by: jan57 on Saturday 30 November 13 13:05 GMT (UK)
 I see from the 1861  census  (   from another thread re Thomas)  that  Thomas's sister Harriet was born in Suffolk about 1851      so   maybe  they  married   in Suffolk    as Mary  was born there ,  tho  I   can't see a   marriage   for Springate/ Welam,    unless    Mary was  married  before
Title: Re: Parents of Thomas Welham, born 1859, in West Ham, Essex
Post by: rosie99 on Saturday 30 November 13 13:06 GMT (UK)
Romilly,
          Thank you foryour reply. As stated in my introduction, the name Springate was taken from a copy of Thomas's birth certificate, which I have bought.

A birth certificate would give the mothers maiden name and would not indicate whether she was previously married.

Where do you have the family on census in 1861 :-\   Just off to look as I see Jan has found it  :)
Title: Re: Parents of Thomas Welham, born 1859, in West Ham, Essex
Post by: jan57 on Saturday 30 November 13 13:15 GMT (UK)
 Rosie  ,   1861      census  on Ancestry has them   mistranscribed  as WELLAND
Title: Re: Parents of Thomas Welham, born 1859, in West Ham, Essex
Post by: rosie99 on Saturday 30 November 13 13:31 GMT (UK)
Thanks Jan57, I looked back on the other post you referred to. No wonder I couldn't see it  ;D
Title: Re: Parents of Thomas Welham, born 1859, in West Ham, Essex
Post by: Romilly on Saturday 30 November 13 13:33 GMT (UK)
This is just supposition... but there's a Marriage for:
Name: MOULDEN, Mary Ann
Registration district:  Witham
County: Essex
Year of registration: 1856
Quarter of registration: Apr-May-Jun
Volume no:  4A
Page no: 383
 MarriageFinder™: Mary Ann Moulden married one of the following people :   
SPRINGATE, Alfred

Could that be a possibility?
Romilly.
Title: Re: Parents of Thomas Welham, born 1859, in West Ham, Essex
Post by: suffolk*sue on Saturday 30 November 13 15:50 GMT (UK)
All Saints, West Ham

George Welham
baptised November 15th, 1857
son of George Henry and Mary Ann.
Title: Re: Parents of Thomas Welham, born 1859, in West Ham, Essex
Post by: rosie99 on Saturday 30 November 13 16:45 GMT (UK)
Rosie  ,   1861      census  on Ancestry has them   mistranscribed  as WELLAND

  1861   I think this  is  them  transcribed as WELLAND,   original  looks  like  Wellham ,   but the   'fancy'   ending  of the  'M'   was   presumably   mistook   for a  'd'   by the transcriber

Class: RG 9; Piece: 1055; Folio: 66; Page: 10


 & Bennets Terrace   West Ham

George Welland  35   born   Suffolk    Railway   worker
 Mary Welland  33   born  Hadbury   Suffolk
 Harriet Welland  10   born Hadbury 
 Henry Welland  11   born Hadbury
 George Welland  4    born West  Ham
 Thomas Welland  2

jan57  I hope you don't mind me transferring the info you found from the other post in case it helps us here  ;) 
Title: Re: Parents of Thomas Welham, born 1859, in West Ham, Essex
Post by: suffolk*sue on Saturday 30 November 13 17:58 GMT (UK)
Chelmsford Chronicle = 16th November, 1866

George Welham age 40yrs, a navvie of 12 Francis Street committed a rape on his own daughter,Harriett,
a girl of 15yrs. The girls mother died of cholera in August last, leaving a family of six children.
Three days after to the mothers death he forced her into bed with him, the other five children sleeping in the same room when the offence took place.
He had since been carrying on an illicit intercourse with her. The girl got ill, she told her aunt and the circumstances were communicated to the Society for Protection of Females, who then told the police and he was arrested.
He now stands remanded for the testimony of the medical witness.

Another report says the aunt is an Elizabeth Green, sister of the girls mother and married to a George Green.

 :-X :-X
Title: Re: Parents of Thomas Welham, born 1859, in West Ham, Essex
Post by: suffolk*sue on Saturday 30 November 13 18:55 GMT (UK)
George and Elizabeth Green in West Ham in 1871, =    RG10; Piece: 1624; Folio: 169; Page: 40
and in Kersey Suffolk in 1861  =  .RG 9; Piece: 1136; Folio: 5; Page: 4;

George Green married Elizabeth Simpson in the Cosford district of Suffolk in 1856.

1851 has an Abraham and Mary Simpson in Hadleigh Suffolk, the two eldest children are a John Springett and Mary Ann Oxer.  = HO107; Piece: 1790; Folio: 355; Page: 18

Suffolk Marriage Index has
Abraham Simpson
Mary Springate
3rd March, 1831
Hadleigh.

There is no indication that Mary was a widow, so the aforesaid John and Mary Springett may have been illegitimate.


Henry Oxer married Mary Ann Springett in Cosford district in 1849.
Title: Re: Parents of Thomas Welham, born 1859, in West Ham, Essex
Post by: Romilly on Saturday 30 November 13 19:17 GMT (UK)

What a horrible story...:-(

I wonder what happened to Harriet?

Romilly.
Title: Re: Parents of Thomas Welham, born 1859, in West Ham, Essex
Post by: suffolk*sue on Saturday 30 November 13 19:28 GMT (UK)

What a horrible story...:-(

I wonder what happened to Harriet?

Romilly.


At least that little snippet about the Green family led us to Mary Springetts origins.  :-\
Title: Re: Parents of Thomas Welham, born 1859, in West Ham, Essex
Post by: jan57 on Saturday 30 November 13 23:15 GMT (UK)
 Horrible man   that  George  was !   
Title: Re: Parents of Thomas Welham, born 1859, in West Ham, Essex
Post by: jacquelineve on Sunday 01 December 13 08:26 GMT (UK)

 Marriage 3rd March 1831 Hadleigh Suffolk
Abraham Simpson + Mary Springate

1841 Hadleigh Suffolk
Abraham Simpson   35
Mary                       30
John Springett         15
Marian ..........          13
Simpson children

Jackie
Title: Re: Parents of Thomas Welham, born 1859, in West Ham, Essex
Post by: peterbroscombe51 on Sunday 01 December 13 09:57 GMT (UK)
Thank you to all. You know the saying, you can pick your friends, but not your family. There is always some dirty linen hiden in the family and this is so in this case
Title: Re: Parents of Thomas Welham, born 1859, in West Ham, Essex
Post by: RobPhill on Sunday 01 December 13 16:05 GMT (UK)
Hi,
I have started a family tree for our decorator, Brian Wellham. Thomas in 1871 census is shown as an inmate of West Ham workhouse. In 1881 census he is listed as a soldier in Portsmouth Barracks.
RobPhill
Title: Re: Parents of Thomas Welham, born 1859, in West Ham, Essex
Post by: peterbroscombe51 on Monday 02 December 13 12:07 GMT (UK)
RobPhill,
           Thank you for information concerning Thomas. Do you think it is a good idea to exchange information on the Welham family? If so please send personal message with your email address and we will take it from there.