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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: trooper2404 on Friday 29 November 13 14:05 GMT (UK)
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Im looking for information on William James Summers,Born in Stockport about 1861,
Ive found him on the 1891-1901 census for wales.I can`t find a birth for him?
I have his marriage cert, he married edith agnes hughes in Newport,30/07/1889.
His fathers name on the certificate is William Summers,Occupation farm bailiff (deceased).
I can`t find William summers, or William james summers,on any other census,
any help would be much appreiciated,thank you
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Hi,
there is this one in 1871 3661/ 56/ 9 The Summers family are lodgers.
88 Higher Hillgate Stockport
John Johnson 63 yrs
Mary Summers 47 yrs
John Summers 16 yrs
Thomas Summers 12 yrs
William Summers 10 yrs
heywood
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Sorry - I put 1861 in earlier post - have corrected it now.
This is 1861 2566/ 16/25
The family are Sumers and lodgig with the Johnson family.
Mary is married and a charwoman and William is 5 months
In 1851 Mary is married to Charles :-\ so back to the drawing board!
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ok, thank you anyway
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Try the parish records. They will have dates of baptism but it may take a while finding which church he was baptised in.
AJ
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Is he the William J Summers, married to Edith?
And living in Newport, Monmouthshire in 1891?
He has his place of birth as Stockport, Lancashire? ::)
Which looks to me like he was born in Lancashire, but near Stockport (which is in Cheshire)?
1891 reference Class: RG12; Piece: 4374; Folio: 84; Page: 14
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Who were witnesses on the marriage ? Might they give further family clues??
Suz
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LancashireBMD has this possibility?
1860 Summers, William
Manchester district, Market Street sub-district
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1861 Census - Stockport Cheshire, Higher Hillgate, William Sumers, age 5 months, born Stockport, mother Mary age 39 RG9/2566
1871 Census - Stockport Cheshire, Higher Hillgate, William Summer, age 10, born Stockport, mother Mary age 47 RG10/3661
William is not with mother in 1881 Census mother still in Higher Hillgate Stockport.
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1861 Census - Stockport Cheshire, Higher Hillgate, William Sumers, age 5 months, born Stockport, mother Mary age 39 RG9/2566
1871 Census - Stockport Cheshire, Higher Hillgate, William Summer, age 10, born Stockport, mother Mary age 47 RG10/3661
William is not with mother in 1881 Census mother still in Higher Hillgate Stockport.
See posts #2 and #3 - wrong father?! ;D
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1861 Census - Stockport Cheshire, Higher Hillgate, William Sumers, age 5 months, born Stockport, mother Mary age 39 RG9/2566
1871 Census - Stockport Cheshire, Higher Hillgate, William Summer, age 10, born Stockport, mother Mary age 47 RG10/3661
William is not with mother in 1881 Census mother still in Higher Hillgate Stockport.
This census was posted previously and discounted-think it was established that mother Mary was married to Charles ???
Suz
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he is the one on the marriage to edith agnes hughes,yes,
I can`t find his father on any census return William summers,
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Hi, their are banns read July 21st, 28th, and August 4th 1889 Holy Triniity, Newport for an Edith Agnes Hughes and a James Summers?
Keyboard86
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1861 Census - Stockport Cheshire, Higher Hillgate, William Sumers, age 5 months, born Stockport, mother Mary age 39 RG9/2566
1871 Census - Stockport Cheshire, Higher Hillgate, William Summer, age 10, born Stockport, mother Mary age 47 RG10/3661
William is not with mother in 1881 Census mother still in Higher Hillgate Stockport.
This census was posted previously and discounted-think it was established that mother Mary was married to Charles ???
Suz
The mother Mary did indeed marry Charles.
Mary Mycock married Charles Summers Dec. Quarter 1848 Registration District Stockport
In the 1851 census they are together, Higher Hillgate, Stockport,
All subsequent census for Mary do not have her husband Charles present.
However Mary is having children including a William born about 1860.
Cheshire Birth indexes 1860, SUMMERS, William, Stockport, Mothers Maiden Name MYCOCK
What happened to Charles Summers after 1851?
Did Charles die after 1851 or maybe go away for some reason?
I have not discounted this family just yet.
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1861 3021 / 79/ 23
Charles Summers living with Alice Summers in Oldham
1871 3939/ 64 / 15
lodging in Bolton
1881 3478/ 41/ 20
lodging in Stockport
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thankyou all so much for your time
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I have his marriage cert, he married edith agnes hughes in Newport,30/07/1889.
Hello trooper2404
Could you please post all the details on the marriage certificate you have please.
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here are the details on the marriage certificate.
30 July 1889 St Michael's Roman Catholic Church, Newport, William James Summers age 28 bachelor Seaman M.S. m by Licence Edith Agnes Hughes age 19 spinster. William's father was William Summers (deceased), Farm Bailiff. Edith's father was Joseph Hughes, stevedore
thank you
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Thanks for the marriage certificate which confirms a Roman Catholic marriage.
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Don’t know if you have found this yet but just thought I would send it as it shows where Edith and James were after the 1901 census.
They had a daughter Marion born about 1907 Blyth Northumberland.
She was baptised Joanna Marion Summers 13th Feb 1907
“Our Lady and St. Wilfred”, Blyth, Northumberland (RC church)
Father Jacobi Summers, Mother Editha Hughes Summers
Names written in latin – Jacobi is James and Editha is Edith.
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I haven't found that,thankyou very much
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further to this,i found a marriage for one of,william james summers children,in Scotland, which I have attached,it says William james summers is a seaman, but there is something written underneath his occupation which I can`t read,could any one tell me what it says?
Is there anywhere in the country what holds records of merchant seamen?
Thank you
Copyright image removed
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further to this,i found a marriage for one of,william james summers children,in Scotland, which I have attached,it says William james summers is a seaman, but there is something written underneath his occupation which I can`t read,could any one tell me what it says?
Column 6
Name, Surname, and Rank or Profession of Father. - Name and Maiden Surname of Mother.
James Summers, Seaman (M S), Edith Summers MS. Hughes (deceased)
I would think that the "MS." after the mothers name stands for Maiden Surname
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Find My Past looks to have Merchant Seamen records
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I can`t find William summers, or William james summers,on any other census,
1861/1862 Born
1871 census - ?
1881 census - ?
1889 Marriage - William James, Seaman M.S. born 1861
1891 census - William J, Seaman, born 1862
1901 census - Wm J. Labourer General , born 1862
1907 baptism - James
1911 census - ?
1919 Marriage - James, Seaman (MS)
Based on the above is it possible he is listed as James Summers in the missing census.
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Hi, their are banns read July 21st, 28th, and August 4th 1889 Holy Triniity, Newport for an Edith Agnes Hughes and a James Summers?
Keyboard86
Hi all, only possibly for my continuing knowledge of marriage procedures, if this is the same couple but with James becoming a William James, how could if the same couple , marry before the 3rd set of banns are read?
Was the fact the marriage was by licence due to possibly the groom requiring to leave for ie Naval duties?
Keyboard86
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in 1911,edith agnes summers is living in Northumberland with 3 children,still married not a widow.
Its all a mystery to me,
thank you very much for all your help
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Its all a mystery to me,
According to the evidence you have found so far:
William Summers / William James Summers / or James Summers was born about 1861/1862.
1889 Marriage certificate living in Newport, occupation Seaman which gives his age as 28 so born about 1861.
1891 Census living in Newport which gives his age as 29 so born about 1862.
1901 Census living in Newport which gives his age as 39 so born about 1862.
1911 His wife Edith and family are living in Blyth Northumberland by the sea. She is married so he is still alive at this time. As a Seaman he is possibly on board ship.
1907 He is named on the baptism of his daughter baptised at Blyth, Northumberland so still alive.
1919 He is named as the father at his son’s wedding in Glasgow. Edith Agnes is named as mother but she is (deceased). It does not say (deceased) after his name so it would be fair to assume he is still alive in 1919.
It is possible that the family moved from Northumberland to Scotland possibly to Ardrossan or Glasgow after 1911. If they did then it may be worth looking for his death in Scotland. I don’t know much about Scottish records but I believe that the parents are named on the death certificate. It is possible that his parents names are unknown by the informant of course but worth a try. If you do look for his death then keep in mind the variations of his name that have been used in the other documents.
The Scotlands People website have all the records.
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I found a death for William james summers,he died on the 20th October 1922, and a probate record in 1924,is effects went to Edith Agnes Johnson,wife of Martin Johnson.
I cant find a marriage for edith agnes.
Ive sent for a death certificate for William james summers,to make sure its him.
On the death registration,it gives his birth has about 1864.
Id still like to find a birth for him,so I can get his birth certificate.
On William James summers marriage certificate,his father is William (deceased) gives his fathers occupation as farm bailiff,.
any more help would be much appreciated, Thank you
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I cant find a marriage for edith agnes.
There is a marriage December Quarter 1922 Registration District Tynemouth reference 10b 303
Martin Johansen and Edith A Summers.
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thank you for that :)
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Although civil registration started in 1837, it wasn't compulsory for parents to register births until 1875 so there may not be a cert to find. Before 1875 the onus was on the registrars to go around their district to collect births.
Dawn
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any more help would be much appreciated, Thank you
Found at The National Archives website online collection search:
Medal Card for James Summers, born Stockport 1863
Registry of Shipping and Seaman - First World War Merchant Marine Medals....
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/Home/OnlineCollections
Just enter this ref in the search box:
BT 351/1/136407
I know it isn't exactly correct but it has the right criteria - William or James + Summers + Stockport + born about 1861 to 1864
No guarantee but might be your William James Summers.
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thank you for that information,sorry I didn`t reply straight away,ive been on holidays
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Ive sent for a death certificate for William james summers,to make sure its him.
Did you get a death certificate? A transcription would be interesting and might have a clue to finding his birth.
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I won`t get it till the new year now,but thanks so much for your help
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heres the death cert, and it is him
Moderator comment: full certificate removed, small portions only are allowed for deciphering purposes
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Good to hear you have his death certificate. If you could post your transcription that would be interesting and may give more clues to his birth and help find him in the missing census.
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here it is,thank you for looking,i still can`t find a birth
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Hi trooper2404.
I think the image you have posted will probably be removed.
Not to worry as you can put into your own words the information in the certificate that is relevant.
Looking forward to reading your next post. :)
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james summers,died,20th October 1922
age at death, 58
occupation,merchant seamen
cause of death, Pulmonary Tuberculosis.
informant,E Summers widow
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Thanks for that info.
This is what I have gleaned, is it correct ?
James Summers died 20th October 1922, at 50 Smeaton Road, Blyth
His death was registered Tynemouth by E. Summers, his widow.
Her address is 10 Hamilton Street, Blyth
His age is 58 years and he lived at Bowes Street, Blyth UD
He was a Merchant Seaman and died of Pulmonory Tuberculosis
Death was registered 23rd October 1922
Information taken from birth certificate copyright General Register Office.
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that is correct.
His widow edith didn't hang about,she got married again in December 1922
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According to the death certificate for James 1922 they were living at different addresses in Blyth so maybe they had been estranged for a while.
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yes they where living apart,she did get £93 from probate in 1924,from james.
that was a lot of money then.
still no closer to finding his birth
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Hi
Please see my reply #31
There may not be a birth cert to find.
If you have discounted any possible entries from the birth index, then you should be looking for a baptism.
As there are indications that the family may be (partially) Catholic, then that would be a good place to start. However, very few Catholic baptisms are found online as a lot of registers are still at the various churches.
Dawn