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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: oze on Wednesday 27 November 13 01:00 GMT (UK)
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I am looking into the background of Mary Ellen Australia Browne, born 1863 in NSW to John and Sarah. She had brothers Thomas G died 1883 aged 30, and John Edward died 1909 aged 53, and a sister Sarah Jane, wife of J F Gerahty, died 1946 aged 78.
I have a record of John's death aged 47 in 1871, and Sarah's death aged 54 in 1881, at Sherriff's Gardens in Sydney, but no information on the family prior to Mary's birth, and I cannot locate the birth registrations for her siblings. Perhaps Thomas and John were born elsewhere?
I would greatly appreciate any information on the Browne family of Sherriff's Gardens prior to 1863.
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Sherriff's Gardens is apparently part of Alexandria/Surry Hills.
Do you have the information for Mary's marriage and death?
This looks possible:
Marriage, 1882, reg Sydney, #264
Mary E A BROWNE, Lewis H WHITTLE
Death, 1931, reg Chatswood, NSW 17384/1931
Mary E A WHITTLE, parents: John, Sarah
I cannot see any births for John and Sarah BROWNE in NSW.
I note that Mary's record of birth on the NSW index shows the surname as BROWN.
Judith
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No E on the BROWN
143/1863
BROWN Mary E A
Father John Mother Sarah
District Sydney
Cando
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Hi there,
Well spotted Cando :)
Was Mary’s birth registered with the surname indexed as BROWN or as BROWNE? The NSW BDM online index has an entry for a Mary E A BROWN, dau of John and Sarah, registered Sydney 1863 #143. Do you have a transcription of that cert? If so, what details are on that record re Mary’s parents.
Re Sheriff’s Gardens. http://trove.nla.gov.au/ (search with one”r” rather than with two)
I wonder if Sheriff's Gardens were close to Hyde Park …. Perhaps southern side of Hyde Park …. Although Sheriff’s Office was located near to Hyde Park Barracks at one stage).
City of Sydney Assessment Books
http://www.cityofsydney.nsw.gov.au/learn/history/search-our-collections/assessment-books
City of Sydney Maps
http://www.photosau.com.au/CoSMaps/scripts/home.asp
City of Sydney online images of the SANDS Commercial Directory for 1868 lists a Mrs Sarah BROWN, Liverpool Street. And in the street by street section, there’s a John BROWN at 252 Liverpool Street. (between Riley and Yurong Streets)
http://photosau.com.au/CosSands/scripts/home.asp
I have a Sands Trades and Professions Directory for 1863. Happy to look through it if I know the occupation shown on that 1863 birth cert.
Sands Alpha Directory 1863
BROWN, John
Ballastman, Berry’s Bay, North Shore
251 Albion St
Crown Street Miller’s point
12 Fitzroy street
Shoemaker, 25 Kensington street
Mariner, 45 Princes street
Shoemaker, 13 Bank street
Dealer, Barker Street
Poulterer, 160 Phillip street and market sheds, George St
Schoomaster, 305 Kent Street
Engineer, 239 Clarence St
Baker, Darling Street Balmain
NO LISTING for a John BROWNE
I will not be responsible for any debts contracted in my name by any member of my family, or any one connected with them from this date. Sarah Brown, Widow, Sheriff’s Gardens
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/28417227 . SMH 25 July 1871.
May I ask if you have a transcript of John Brown’s death cert? As Sarah was still alive, it is likely she was the informant. I would expect her to be able to provide information as to when and where they had married, and to the names of his parents, and to where he was born, and if not born in NSW, then to know how long he had been in the colony.
Cheers, JM
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NSW ER 1870 EAST SYDNEY
John BROWN
Residence 148 South Head Road,
Residence 398 Liverpool St
Household Off Riley Street,
Residence 5 Little Brisbane Street
Freehold, houses, Little Macquarie St
Residence 28 Park St
Rooms Victoria Club, Castlereagh St
NSW ER 1870 PADDINGTON
John BROWN
Household, Wells Street, Redfern
Household, Botany Road, Waterloo
Cheers, JM
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BROWNE Dec 13 at her residence, 81 Little Macquarie Street, Sheriff’s Gardens, Sarah Browne, aged 54 years, relict of the late John Browne.
Evening News 16 Dec 1881
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/107225014
With the street address, you should be able to go back through the City of Sydney Assessment Books and find when the occupancy commenced for the Brown/e family.
Cheers, JM
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1868 Sands on the City of Sydney website
Macquarie Street
East Side
Off Goulburn Street
Here Macquarie Street South
Sheriff’s Gardens
Here Goulburn St
Cheers, JM (I have to get back to work, sorry, I will try to help later this evening. It is 2:10 pm at the moment)
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These burials match the year of deaths you have given in your original post.
Buried at St Peter's Church Cemetery, Cooks River, NSW:
John BROWN 26/5/1871
Sarah BROWN 13/12/1881
Thomas BROWN 12/9/1883
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Hi.
Death of a John Brown age 47, 26th May 1871.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/129968216?searchTerm=
Gerry
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Probate of will mentions he is formerly of Lochinvar.
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article13239723
In the Will of JOHN BROWN, formerly of Lochinvar, but lately of Sheriff's Gardens, in the city of
Sydney, in the colony of Now South Wales, Gentleman, deceased.
NOTICE is hereby given, that after the expiration of fourteen days from the publication hereof, application will be made to this Honorable Court, in its Ecclesiastical Jurisdiction, that Probate of the last Will and Testament of the abovenamed deceased may be granted to SARAH BROWN, the executrix named in the said Will, the executor, JOHN PHELAN, having renounced probate.
Dated this first day of Juno, A.D. 1871.
CURTIS and GANNON, Procters for said Executrix, 229, Pitt-street, Sydney.
regards,
Ros
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Found it :D
Probate packet available http://investigator.records.nsw.gov.au/Entity.aspx?Path=\Item\234333
I can photograph for you next week if you wish
regards,
Ros
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Probate of will mentions he is formerly of Lochinvar.
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article13239723
I think that would be Lochinvar, as in New South Wales, about half way between Maitland and Branxton, as there's no mention of Scotland...
ADD
There’s a John PHELAN, Under Sheriff as the nominal advertiser for a number of legal notices in the SMH in 1871. I would expect if that is the same John Phelan that he would need to decline to be executor.
Cheers, JM
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Because of the Maitland connection could this be the birth for Sarah Jane?
NSW 10538/1866
Sarah J BROWN, parents JOHN, SARAH reg at MAITLAND
Judith
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NSW SRO Reels No. 1101 (at the end) and 1102 (from the beginning) cover much of the Land Applications for the many John BROWN chaps pre the 1861 Robertson Land Reforms Act.
LPI now easier to search, but still not an easy task online, definitely much better, but still NOT set up for the fh buffs. I have a "cheat sheet” booklet somewhere s….. Will hunt it up after our evening meal.
Lochinvar in the County of Northumberland.
http://www.lpi.nsw.gov.au/mapping_and_imagery/parish_maps
http://images.maps.nsw.gov.au/terms/acceptTerms.htm
http://blog.sl.nsw.gov.au/erecords/index.cfm/2012/1/13/nsw-parish-maps
http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/state-archives/guides-and-finding-aids/archives-in-brief/archives-in-brief-81
http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/state-archives/guides-and-finding-aids/archives-in-brief/archives-in-brief-80
Cheers, JM
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Funeral notices for Thomas Browne 13/9/1883
There is a brother John E Browne
Brother In Law Frederick Williams
Brother In Law Robert Formby
Brother In Law Lewis L Whittle
So wonder if there were other sisters?
Can't seem to find anything.
Don't worry about this found the father John's death notice and he leaves a wife and four children
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Well, I wasn't expecting such a response, thanks very much to you all.
Judith, yes, I do have Mary's death, and marriage to Lewis Whittle. She was 19 at the time and on the certificate is written "The consent of Henry Whittle the father of the Bridegroom and of John E Browne guardian of the Bride was given to the Minister." John E Browne being the younger of the brothers.
The family seems to be using the name "Brown" until 1871, but by 1881 have "Sarah Browne" on the funeral notice.
Cando, I do believe that's the right birth for Mary although I haven't got the certificate yet as they're so expensive here.
JM, I'm not entirely certain where Sheriff's Gardens is today. There was an article in the SMH in 1912 about "Old Sydney" (http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/15374157?searchTerm=%22sheriff%27s%20gardens%22%20commonwealth%20street&searchLimits=) and I've found what might be the right streets in Surrey Hills.
I hadn't yet come across that SMH article from Sarah Brown, so thanks very much for that. I don't have John's death certificate, I'm debating whether that or Mary's birth certificate would be more useful.
Merlin, those do appear to be the right burials, I think I might try contacting the church history group to see if there's anything else to find out there.
Ros, thanks so much for pointing out that probate, I've been looking through the newspaper archives for a long time but never managed to find that.
Going off "formerly of Lochinvar", I found a newspaper article (http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/18714885?searchTerm=%22sheriff%27s%20gardens%22%20brown&searchLimits=) which mentions at the end a Mr John Brown, station-master at Lochinvar, I suppose this must be him. Rather strangely he appears to be trying to have his father declared insane! If this is the right John Brown he seems to have immigrated to Australia, rather than being born here, and his father must be Thomas Brown who was attached to the Sheriff's Office, which explains the acquaintance with John Phelan.
Judith, yes, that certainly matches the dates I have for Sarah Jane, although there's another John Browne resident nearby in Singleton which makes looking at the BMD records a little difficult.
Sue, I'm rather perplexed by all those brothers-in-law. Lewis Whittle is Mary's husband, but Sarah Jane only married Julius Gerahty in 1887 several years later, so I wonder who Frederick Williams and Robert Formby are?
Thanks again for all your help, I'll have to chase up this Lochinvar connection now.
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Funeral notice for Thomas BROWN d. July 1868
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article60854932
Also buried at St Peter's Church Cemetery, Cooks River, NSW:
Thomas BROWN 5/7/1868
Large newspaper report names his siblings & where they were living:
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article28420072
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Probate packet for Thomas Brown died 5/7/1868 also available.
http://investigator.records.nsw.gov.au/Entity.aspx?Path=\Item\233095
Will add to my list to photograph. Probate packets may contain death certs and other useful info
cheers,
Ros
Well-found Merlin :)
And well-found Oze :)
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1868 Sands on the City of Sydney website
Macquarie Street
East Side
Off Goulburn Street
Here Macquarie Street South
Sheriff’s Gardens
Here Goulburn St
JM, I'm not entirely certain where Sheriff's Gardens is today. There was an article in the SMH in 1912 about "Old Sydney" (http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/15374157?searchTerm=%22sheriff%27s%20gardens%22%20commonwealth%20street&searchLimits=) and I've found what might be the right streets in Surrey Hills.
;D ;D
http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks06/0600151h.html
Macquarie Street on the northern side of Hyde Park
http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks06/0600151h-images/p80a.jpg
From Sands 1868 Directory
Sheriff’s Gardens were on the Eastern side of Macquarie St and on the southern side of Hyde Park
Google Maps TODAY ;D and the 1912 SMH article
Commonwealth St is the current name for Little Macquarie Street. Little Macquarie St was the extension of Macquarie St, interrupted by Hyde Park. So Little Macquarie Street South, is likely to be now known as Commonwealth Street.
Liverpool St and Commonwealth St intersect, at Hyde Park.
Goulburn St and Commonwealth St intersect, (Goulburn St, the next one south after Liverpool St).
Its likely to be the Car Park :D
Cheers, JM
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http://www.photosau.com.au/CoSMaps/maps/pdf/TS/BlockJ1.pdf
Map J1 in the 1855-1865 Trig Survey Maps for City of Sydney.
Macquarie Street eastern side on the southern side of Hyde Park. NOTE that the drafter preparing those survey maps has included the individual built environs but not the names of the buildings.
Live links given in earlier posts, including to CoS Assessment Books (Cook Ward :) )
Add
http://www.photosau.com.au/CoSMaps/maps/pdf/CDS/Sheet_21.pdf
Cheers, JM
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Re John BROWNE and Lochinvar in NSW ;D
http://library.sl.nsw.gov.au/search/X?lochinvar&searchscope=2
NSW SL catalogue gives Lochinvar as on land that is part of an original 2000 acre land grant to Leslie Duguid in 1823. Near to or adjoined to W C Wentworth’s Luskintyre and Mrs Harper’s farm Windemere and an advert in the Australian March 19, 1840. Trove has many of the adverts which ran in all the leading newspapers. Here’s one link …. http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/2537408 Sydney Gaz 28 March 1840.
NSW SRO has Lesslie DUGUID land at reel 1121. There was a Court of Claims re the Duguid land in March 1834. First Possessor of Land listed as William Longford. Reel 1420
NSW ER 1870 THE HUNTER
John S BROWN, freehold, Lochinvar
NSW ER 1878 THE HUNTER
John S BROWN, freehold, Lochinvar
Walter William BROWN, residence, Lochinvar
Alfred C BROWN, residence, Lochinvar
As John BROWN/e died in Sydney in 1871, the two entries above are NOT him.
BUT ;D ;D ;D
There is a John BROWNE listed at Sheet 2 of the Parish Map of Maitland, County of Northumberland, barcode 158386 on the lpi website
John BROWNE 5 April 1836
Portion 166 and 167
Plan 188 663 and 217 663
Location diag
Vol, Folio (or Date) 5.4.1836
Area 1.341 (for 166) and 2.175 (for 167)
Purchaser for both 166 and 167 John Browne. On 167 “see note ( 8 ) "
So on that part of that sheet 2, the notes are on the right hand side and Note 8 reads Resumed for Recreation. Gaz 16th January 1951, 5217ms Ms 5395 3070 R So Portion 167 may well be a sporting oval or similar even today ;D
I realise that John BROWNE died 1871, and the newspapers have him as aged 47, and it would be unusual for a 12 year old to purchase land in NSW in1836, however I think it is worthwhile following up to see who the person was who did purchase that land in 1836. The NSW SRO records should give the name of the ship of arrival for the purchaser. And if the purchaser was born in the colony, that would likely be stated in those CSreLand records too.
NSW SRO CSreLand index has just the ONE John BROWNE listing purchasing land in 1836. It is on reel 1103. http://srwww.records.nsw.gov.au/indexes/searchform.aspx?id=14&new=1
Leaving it up to our OP to get to the original records to see if this is the right family ;D perhaps a generation earlier.
Cheers, JM
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JM, thanks very much for your help with all those maps, I've never tried to find a location within Sydney before.
Comparing the two old maps, it looks like Little Macquarie Street on the 1865 is the same as Browns Lane on other one (I think the date reads 1856?). I've found a number of newspaper articles that suggest that Thomas Brown, John Brown's father, also lived at Sheriff's Gardens, I wonder if there's a connection between him and Browns Lane? I notice that Nithsdale Street is still around today, and looking at the position of that and Commonwealth Street, could Little Macquarie Street now be the Alberta Street that runs between Goulburn and Clarke Street? Which would put Sheriff's Gardens about where the Travelodge is.
Regarding Lochinvar, I've found several newspaper reporting in June 1866 to the appointment of John Brown as station master to Lochinvar, which suggests to me he was formerly living somewhere else. Also the family doesn't seem to add the 'e' to Browne until 1881, perhaps they thought it was more posh than just Brown.
Ros, Merlin, thanks very much for the information on Thomas Browne's death. I can't say I really understand what's going on in that court case, but I shall certainly have to look into Thomas's siblings and his wife Emily.
I notice the court case article mentions a sister living in Salford. Some time ago I found a family in Manchester in the UK 1861 census, with a John Brown, railway bookeeper, born around 1825 in Salford Lancashire. He has a wife Sarah, born 1827, and children Thomas and John, born 1853 and 1855. I wonder if this could perhaps be the right family before they came to Australia?
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http://photosau.com.au/CosRates/scripts/home.asp
Cook Ward 1863 Assessment Books has Thos BROWN, John Brown, as owners/landlords on Macquarie St, and on Macquarie Lane, and it is near to “off 2 Goulburn Street” There’s even a Walter Brown in that area …..
Cook Ward 1845 Assessment Books has Thos BROWN, McQuarie Lane …. As both occupier and as Owner/landlord.
Cook Ward 1880 Assessment Books has Sarah Brown at 21 Little Macquarie St AND then there’s Mrs S Brown as owner/landlord at:
19 Little Macquarie St, and at 1 and 2 and 3 and 4 off Little Macquarie St and then at 23 Little Macquarie St
I am sure that with that info, that the City of Sydney’s admin staff will be able to identify what is currently at that site….
There is lots more info on the CoS records that are transcribed and uploaded at that above link
Also, here’s the CoS link to Sydney Streets
http://history.cityofsydney.nsw.gov.au/sydneystreets/
http://history.cityofsydney.nsw.gov.au/sydneystreets/Lost_Streets/Resumptions/map.html
Cheers, JM
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There's a Thomas BROWN who was appointed Baliff, Sydney commencing 1 July 1840. This is a position in the Sheriff’s office. In 1848 The position of Sheriff was £1000 pa. The Baliff, Sydney was £135 pa. The Baliff, Sydney had two assistants (£100 pa each)
John Brown was appointed Baliff, Parramatta commencing 25Feb 1845. £135 pa. No Assistants.
By 1856, Thomas BROWN was still the Baliff, Sydney and was now on £235 pa. One of his assistants was on £200 pa and the other was on £120 pa
At the NSW SRO’s index to Early Probate Records there’s a Thomas BROWN, of Tarban Creek Asylum, probate date 1863. You mentioned earlier about a John Brown trying to have his father declared insane. https://www.records.nsw.gov.au/state-archives/research-topics/asylum-records/asylum-records (Gladsville Hospital) I would expect that the NSW BDM registration for a Thomas BROWN, aged 60, died Ryde would likely be for him. (#5805). I would expect his grave to be within the grounds of the Asylum or up at St Anne’s C of E at Top Ryde. There may well be some clues in the Probate Record for that chap.
Thomas BROWN died 13 August 1863. His wife, Jane Brown died 17 Oct 1862. Probate notice SMH 5 Sept 1863 (3rd column from left) http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/28621196
Sale of a Phaeton and associated harness (“never having been used”) SMH 2 April 1863
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/13076478
NSW SRO Archives Investigator Probate Packet
Thomas Brown death 13 August 1863, Probate Granted 6 Nov 1863
(Another to add to Ros' list .... soon we need to organise an extension to the facilities at Kingswood, just for Ros :) ... or at least her own parking spot in the car park .... )
ADD, yes this chap's death is 1863 and thus not possible to be the death of the chap being sectioned in the newspaper article, but the 1863 probate file may well contain detailed information that will help eliminate other sightings of the many BROWN/e families in Sydney in the 1860s.
Cheers, JM
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Cando, I do believe that's the right birth for Mary although I haven't got the certificate yet as they're so expensive here.
Why not purchase a transcription of the certificate which will only cost you $20. You don't need a certified certificate for family history. Three accredited agents in NSW. The transcript is emailed.
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/bdm_fh.html#transcription
Cando
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Re Little Macquarie Street
Look at those mid 19thC maps, the ones showing Hyde Park.
You can see that Macquarie Street is abruptly stopped at Hyde Park (northern end) (firm lines end). You can see that the draftsman continued the line of Macquarie Street right through Hyde Park. You can see that the line is picked up again at Liverpool Street (Southern end of Hyde Park) .... The lines then continues in the firm hand. In 20th Century drafting jargon, those two parallel lines running through Hyde Park "joining" Macquarie and Little Macquarie are known as "Construction lines" (so they are there drawn there by that draftsman to help that draftsman line up his work on the Drawing Board, in preparation for the Ink Work).
(In the real world I am a mechanical engineering draftsman, well at least that's what the certification documents read back when I was first qualified. I am female, and today the position is known as 'CAD drafter' )
Cheers, JM
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Re the gettng declared insane. The article reads like he may have Alzheimer's or some other form of old age dementia. It's sad that in those days people had to go to court and have family members declared insane and then locked away.
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Re the gettng declared insane. The article reads like he may have Alzheimer's or some other form of old age dementia. It's sad that in those days people had to go to court and have family members declared insane and then locked away.
NSW legislation continues to require a Court to order involuntary scheduling particularly for a mentally disordered person. It is just that these matters are no longer written up in the printed press.
http://www.health.nsw.gov.au/mhdao/Documents/discussion-paper-01.pdf
Cheers, JM
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These burials match the year of deaths you have given in your original post.
Buried at St Peter's Church Cemetery, Cooks River, NSW:
John BROWN 26/5/1871
Sarah BROWN 13/12/1881
Thomas BROWN 12/9/1883
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-11665-173581-26?cc=1534449&wc=M9MK-R2V:1500941123 They have the Card showing a transcription with John's age as 17 :-\ :-\
Cheers, JM
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Government appointments should be announced in the Government Gazette.
Some of the early issues of the NSW Government Gazette can be found via Rootschat Resources Board. It is part of the Victoria Government Gazette Online Archive 1836-1997 and so the live link is listed on RChat’s Victoria Resources Board. Of course, don’t anticipate finding NSW Govt Gazettes AFTER 1851 when Victoria was hived off from NSW.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=369963.0
“Victoria Government Gazettes
http://gazette.slv.vic.gov.au/ Thank You regross”
NSW Government Gazette 14 page 235 11 March 1840
Sheriff’s Office,
Sydney 2 March 1840
Notice is hereby given, that Mr Thomas Lowrie has been appointed Sheriff’s Baliff for the District of Goulburn, and that Mr THOMAS BROWN, has been appointed assistant Sheriff’s Bailiff for Sydney, in the room of Mr Thomas Lowrie.
T. Macquoid, Sheriff.
And
NSW Government Gazette 25, 22 June 1843 page 298
Notice is hereby given ……. Appointed Bailiffs for the Districts …… Mr Thomas Brown for Sydney, from the 1sst of January 1843 ……. Mr John Brown for Campbelltown from 1st January 1843 ….. Adophus W Young, Sheriff…..
Cheers, JM
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Thanks for directing me to those Assessment Books, JM, I had no idea that resource existed. The Lunacy Commission Report says Thomas Brown was owner of considerable property, so it makes sense for him to turn up so many times in the area.
I've been looking through the newspaper archives for Thomas Browns associated with the Sherriff's Office, and the 1840 date seems to match the beginning of articles about him. I'm not sure who this John Brown fellow is though, he seems to appear in the papers as early as 1834 (although with a name as common as that, the 1834 article could be about someone else entirely). Thomas Brown's son John would seem to be younger than this John Brown, I wonder if it might be a brother.
Very odd that the age of the John Brown in St Peters Cemetery is off. The newspaper article about the funeral says clearly it was taking place in that Cemetery, so either there were two John Browns buried there on the same day, or that record is incorrect. 17 and 47 can look rather similar with bad handwriting.
Thanks for pointing out those Government Gazettes, I'd had a quick look for them as they were mentioned in a few newspaper articles but forgot that the states have changed so much since then.
Cando, I didn't realize transcriptions were an option, that's very helpful.
I'll have to put John Brown on hold for a while, with Christmas coming up. I hadn't hoped to make nearly so much headway on the Browne family, so thanks very much to all of you for your help with this.
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Perhaps "Sherrif's Gardens" is where the big police station is now.
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Perhaps "Sherrif's Gardens" is where the big police station is now.
Hi there Kennett,
I find your post (above) is somewhat confusing, perhaps even a tad misleading.
May I note that in my opinion, that unless a person frequented "police stations" how would anyone know which police station you are referring to.
But not to worry, afterall, the detail for the street address for Sherriff's Gardens in the 1860s was found earlier, and repeated several times already on this very thread.
Here's a shrunken link to the City of Sydney's online (and of course free to search) Sands Directory for 1868, giving street by street details.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0x6u/
Mind you, as far as Mr Google Maps, street view, is currently concerned, unless there's a fully operational Tardis located at the former Sheriff's Garden site, and ready to take onboard any well healed robbers, then there's no police stations (either Big or Small, or any size in between, official or unofficial) anywhere along Commonwealth Ave, Sydney 2000.
Cheers, JM
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There is a VERY LARGE police station, in fact, the LARGEST police station for the entire central Sydney area, occupying the entire block bounded by Goulburn Street, Riley Street, Campbell Street, Hunt Street and Brisbane Street, the corner of which site also touches Commonwealth Street at the intersection of Hunt Street, Brisbane Street and Commonwealth St. The lower end of the site is now a park.
I don't know how you missed it ?
This police station was constructed about 35 years ago, I believe.
I don't know if this large site had any law enforcement use or background prior to the construction of the present police facility.
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There is a VERY LARGE police station, in fact, the LARGEST police station for the entire central Sydney area, occupying the entire block bounded by Goulburn Street, Riley Street, Campbell Street, Hunt Street and Brisbane Street, the corner of which site also touches Commonwealth Street at the intersection of Hunt Street, Brisbane Street and Commonwealth St. The lower end of the site is now a park.
I don't know how you missed it ?
This police station was constructed about 35 years ago, I believe.
I don't know if this large site had any law enforcement use or background prior to the construction of the present police facility.
Hi there Kennett,
The 1868 Sands Directory (I provided the link for your reference) includes the details of the occupancies for all the streets you are now mentioning. There is of course a huge difference, more than a century of difference. There’s also likely a stroll from the southern end of Hyde Park, to that big police station likely built some 35 years ago, ie in the 1970s. I have not found any evidence that Sheriff’s Gardens was anywhere near where the Surry Hills Police Centre, IS currently located. (It being to the eastern side of Harmony Park.) I do not live in Sydney, and I do not frequent police stations, and where a police station has been built in the mid to late 20th century is of no concern to me when I am looking at the NSW colonial era.
May I note that the Sydney Police Centre is currently located at 151-241 Goulburn Street, Surry Hills. 2010. The 1868 Sands Directory has covered that section of Goulburn St, to Crown Street. There’s NO reference to Sheriff’s Gardens, nor to BROWN or BROWNE.
I had checked that for the OP at the time of the initial searching.
May I further note that as the Sydney Police Centre is on the southern side of Goulburn St, and is “big” it has frontage on Riley St (western side of that street, ie eastern end of the police station) and Campbell Street (northern side of that street, ie southern end of the police station) and I have already noted Harmony Park on the remaining boundary. Those streets are even further away from the address for Sheriff’s Gardens in that same directory.
May I note that Sheriff’s Gardens in the 1860s and the Surry Hills Police Station in the 1970s are NOT located on the same sites as each other.
May I please apologise to RChat for duplicating information that I and others may have already provided.
Cheers, JM
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The Sydney Morning Herald, 31 December 1927
“Where Lyons’ Terrace originally stood was once the Sheriff’s gardens, “
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/16430515
http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks06/0600151h.html Sydney in 1848 Joseph FOWLES.
http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks06/0600151h-images/p70a.jpg Lyons Terrace
and also to this letter to the editor, 19 Nov 1912
“… but Mr Stack is wrong about the Sheriff Gardens, that is so far as the old Sheriff Gardens are concerned. They started from the end of Goulburn street and went right up to what I know as the Slate Quarry now, I think Riley Street. Mr Gregory Board’s Property was on one side, and the Sheriff Gardens on the other side of a creek that ran from Surry Hills. A famly by the name of Nolan, I think, was in charge, …. There was a terrace of houses opposite Sheriff Brown’s place, known as Portobella Place – I think some four or six houses. I can quite mind the low wall round Mr Brown’s place, but in my day that was known as Mr Brown's garden, and about it was a clear paddock with a row of old English oaks growing right up to Liverpool Street”
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/15376551
And the article in the paper that prompted that Letter to the editor SMH 9 Nov 1912
“,,, When Samuel Lyons, an old. time auctioneer, in the early forties of eighteen hundred, built the terrace in Liverpool-street so well known as "Lyons'-terrace, ................. Professsor Pell of Sydney University, lived in the terrace. Adjoining the terrace on the south was a garden surrounded by a brick wall, which extended down to Goulburn street. It was known as the “Sheriffs garden” and was in charge of a Mr Brown who was known as the Sheriffs officer….. Mr Brown was a short stout, florid man and took a great pride in the garden….. “
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/15374157
Many thanks to the RChatter who has just sent me a PM giving me a tip re the above info, as they are too shy to post on this thread at this moment. May I please note that I am not the Original Poster.
ADD
A very quick skim at Trove, : :D
SMH 9 April 1858
“Furnished Apartments to Let at No 5, Portobello place, back of Lyons terrace, a large room in a respectable family, adapted for a single person…… “
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/13008502
SMH 28 July 1853
A surveyor and Civil Engineer of considerable experience, with first rate testimonals and references, wishes to meet with an engagement. Address F 4, Portobello Place, Sheriff’s Gardens, Sydney.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/28644616
Cheers, JM
(I would try to help more, but just right now I have a heavy work load on for my real life occupation :)