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General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: momat on Monday 25 November 13 00:27 GMT (UK)
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Woud some one of Russian birth who was only resident in Britain since 1900 be called up to the British Army in WW 1.
According to an oral statement (transcripted) made by a relative my Grandfather served during this time ? ???
Maureen.
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Had he maybe become naturalised some time between 1900 & 1915?
Dawn M
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May be he was a British Subject by birth, through his father being a British Subject ?
Cheers, JM
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Are his war details on ancestry? A lot aren't due to being destroyed in WW2 but it may have details in there
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Hi Maureen
Maybe he volunteered?
Have you checked The National Archives for a naturalisation record?
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI
Gaie
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Hi All,
His father was Russian as was he so nothing going on there.
1911 Census England states him as a Russian Resident.
I can't find naturalisation papers for him or a legal change of name.
Name was changed to BROWN along the way (I think this happened when they settled in Scotland circa 1918 ) from BROHM/N.
Five children(born in Yorkshire) have a variation of BROMM on birth certs and two were born 1915 /1917.
So unless he wanted to get away for a while can't see him as volunteering.
So I am wondering if the bit about him in the Army is fiction.
Maureen.
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Military Service Act 1916 may have caught up with him after 1917.....lots of Russian emigrants served in Labour Corps battalions.
Ady
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Hi
I have NOT found the written source but an elderly rellie says he was of the understanding that British Subject goes down paternal line for THREE generations so what was the GRandfather?
Cheers JM
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Hi
I have NOT found the written source but an elderly rellie says he was of the understanding that British Subject goes down paternal line for THREE generations so what was the GRandfather?
Cheers JM
This was codified in various pieces of legislation of the time including the Naturalisation Act of 1870
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Hi Maureen
Maybe he volunteered?
Gaie
I'm with Gaie on this one maybe he volunteered? I'm sure unless he was very young or very old they would have been happy to have him.
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What is his occupation on the birth certificates of the children born in 1915 and 1917? If he was in military service at that time it should say.
Sue
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On all documents he is a Tailor (journeyman).
We don't know who his Grandfather was and only a mention of his fathers name and no idea who his Mother was so there is nothing to go on here.
Strangely we were led to believe that he and his brother left Russia circa 1900 to avoid the Army there .No data on the brother either !
The children were first generation born British.
Maureen.
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Many thanks Falkyrn, my elderly rellie is very pleased ("over the moon" to quote him) to know his grey cells work fine ! He is 103 years of age.
He adds, and we all know that Russia was one of the Allies during The Great War. The Triple Entente Empires v Austria-Hungarian, German, Ottomann and Bulgarian Empires....
Cheers, JM
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Hi
Is there a Medal Card for him, I think all those survived, can you give us his details, too if anyone on Roots can find him, also there may be some immigration records that can be checked
Margp
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Hi
Is there a Medal Card for him, I think all those survived, can you give us his details, too if anyone on Roots can find him, also there may be some immigration records that can be checked
Margp
I have absolutely nothing to work from.
The first document on him is when he marries my Grandmother in 1904 in Yorkshire.
The next document is the 1911 Census and then his childrens births.
His name was ISRAEL BROHM/N changed to BROWN along the way .
If anyone can find details regarding Army enrolments I would be eternally grateful or anything peraining to his arrival I would be AMAZED.
Maureen.
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Well, I am in NSW Australia. May I suggest you get to a public library with access to Ancestry.
Several pages of detailed Military records for him ;D
There's details for Israel Brown’s children and their dates of birth and lots more info including “Russian” He was married 24 June 1910 to Fanny Davies.
Looks like his records survived the WWII fires ;D
Cheers, JM
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These numbers will likely be significant, it is from the Military records :)
BROWN 139225
ISRAEL 452577
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Guy above has links to Salford, Manchester. Three kids Harry,Sarah and Maurice he was a tailors presser in Labour Corps and RAMC with no overseas service.
Possibly not your man can't see a Yorkshire connection?
Ady
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Yes, but that chap's papers also show he was RUSSIAN .... as in (209972 :) )
Q 3. Are you a British Subject No, Russian
So it may well be a time consuming exercise, BUT a search through those same uploaded Military Records could turn up the elusive Israel :) for our OP :)
Cheers, JM
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Hi Maureen
Do you have the marriage certificate for Israel and Fanny this should give his fathers name and occupation
Margp
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I have access and have had a bit a trawl. I believe it is the bloke the op is searching for. Am happy to email documents if it is of any help......
Born Warsaw, Poland
Enlisted with consent of russia
Did not want to join the Jewish brigade
Wife fanny (nee Davis)
.....
Cocksie
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Well, I am in NSW Australia. May I suggest you get to a public library with access to Ancestry.
Several pages of detailed Military records for him ;D
There's details for Israel Brown’s children and their dates of birth and lots more info including “Russian” He was married 24 June 1910 to Fanny Davies.
Looks like his records survived the WWII fires ;D
Cheers, JM
This is not him.
He married in 1904 and I have all relative information regarding marriage and children.
He lived in HULL 1900 -1918.
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Did you notice that that Israel Brown, was noted on those Military records as
NOT a British Subject :) and
was Russian :) and
was born in Poland :) and
was married in a synagogue in England :) and
the names and dates of birth of his children are all there :) ....
So it could well be that there are UK Military Records YET to be found that may well help your ongoing searching for Israel Brown. These current ones that you are eliminating should at least give you a good understanding of what to expect for Russians who enlisted in the UK military during WWI.
So when you do find your Israel Brown's Military Records you should expect to find confirming information about him, his wife and his children ;D ... So don't give up the hunt for your Israel Brown.
Cheers, JM
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Got intrigued so wandered through online ww1 military records ..... Quite a few russian born british soldiers. Very interesting. So not at all unusual and very possible considering who was allied to who -in answer to original question. Fair percentage of them did not serve outside uk.
Cocksie
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Hi Maureen
Can you list his children and there birth year's
Margp
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Hi
The only marriage I could find in Hull is
Israel Brohm to Leah Jacob in 1904
The only marriage I could find for Fanny is
Fanny Davis to Israel Brown 1910 Manchester which ties in with the Army Records
Margp
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Hey momat
On this thread
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=598185.10
It indicates you had found a document indicating Israel was born in Riga.
Can you list info on Israel's and Leah's mc - all snippets of info you have on this bloke would be good. Father's name?
Cocksie
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Hey momat
On this thread
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=598185.10
It indicates you had found a document indicating Israel was born in Riga.
Can you list info on Israel's and Leah's mc - all snippets of info you have on this bloke would be good. Father's name?
Cocksie
This from the other thread
There is nothing to state who Israel's parents were other than his fathers name as Solomon Brohm on his Marriage and Death certs.