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Research in Other Countries => United States of America => US Lookup Requests => Topic started by: donut on Thursday 21 November 13 18:42 GMT (UK)
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This is a very elusive gentleman. I believe he was born on 4th April 1904, though his birth was not registered until May 1905. He had a brother William Derek and a sister Irene and a sister Colina.No other member of the family has the name Davenport.
I believe his father's name was William and his mother may have been Sarah Annie Sherlock.
Family history relates he was raised by an aunt. I can find no mention for him or his family in 1911 UK Census and the family believe he travelled to the US at some time in his life.
Would be grateful if anyone could tell me if the family was in the US at the time of the 1911 Census.
Many thanks for any help.
Kind regards tunod
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A 1947 passenger list for Alan Davenport Frost from Southampton to New York has his last permanent residence as Weybridge, England and says he was previously in the US in 1936.
The English death index lists his death date as Dec. 1974
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A possible match for him on a 1936 passenger list says he lived in London and was never in the US before.
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https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/V1SD-DVL
- Brazil immigration record gives him as 4 April 1905 - which fits with a birth registered in May (within six weeks of birth) - and gives his parents as William and Margaret(?).
Alan Davenport Frost registered Chorlton June quarter 1905.
William Derek Frost registered Salford Mar quarter 1908
No obvious hits for Colina (nickname?) and too many possibles for Irene. Alan's birth certificate would confirm his mother's maiden name - it's possible there was both a Sarah and a Margaret - possibly one is his mother and the other is the aunt who raised him?
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Just to clarify things, do you mean that Alan Davenport Frost arrived in Brazil in 1905 with his parents or that at some time in his life he told Brazil immigration that his birth was 1905 and that his parents were named William and Margaret?. If the latter could you tell me when he was in Brazil.
Many thanks for your help
Tunod
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The familysearch link in my last post is to a Brazil immigration record from 1963 - if you click through you can see the original. It's something like a landing card - it has a photo of him, details of his passport, etc.
On it, his parents are listed as "William & Margaret Frost" and his birth as 4.4.1905 in Withington. Since the birth date would have come from his passport it should be right - the parents' names I presume he supplied to immigration so would be correct as far as Alan himself was aware.
It appears to be a temporary visit, possibly a business trip.
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Here are the baptisms of two children:
http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Salford/Worsley/stmark/baptisms_1904-1913.html
Margaret Ivy Frost, 1906 - parents William Frost & Sarah Annie of Beech Villa Timperley - he was a mechanical engineer
William Derek Frost, 1908 - parents William Frost and Sarah of 10 Granville Road Pendleton - father "Inspecting Engineer".
http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Salford/Worsley/stmark/marriages_1885-1903.html
- fits this this 1902 marriage in the same church between William Frost, 25 ,an engineer of Pimlico, and Sarah Annie, a 20 year old schoolteacher.
There is a Sarah A. Frost death in Barton Irwell district in 1913 - aged 31. This would explain why Alan was raised by an aunt - either on the Sherlock or Frost side - the kids may have ended up divided among relatives.
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https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/V1SD-DVL
- Brazil immigration record gives him as 4 April 1905 - which fits with a birth registered in May (within six weeks of birth)
Hello i wondered if you still have access to this record I tried the link but it is not working for me possibly it is for members of one of the ancestry websites as it reads that the record is kept private to respect their partners.
I am looking for information and especially a picture on an Alan Frost who was the possible father of my late wife and grandfather to my children. We have taken dna and been researching many years but still not much information has appeared. We do have a couple of pictures of him so if we find a picture of Alan Davenport Frost we can either celebrate or rule him out. We do have some DNA matches in Rio so that is something.
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(https://sites-cf.mhcache.com/e/1/az1zaXRlc192MSZzPTZjN2FjM2RkMDJiZjI2MWJkZjQ2ODRmMWRjZGVkZTVmZTJlZTVkYTRkMGEyZjgyZTZiNTQ4MTRiZTcxNjgwMmUmZT0xNzYzMzkxNjAw/058/199/2081/500004_33691215m85i58101i68rc_A.jpg)
Hopefully this picture comes out ok it is one we have of Alan Frost taken in 1958 in Canada Toronto
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https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/V1SD-DVL
- Brazil immigration record gives him as 4 April 1905 - which fits with a birth registered in May (within six weeks of birth)
Hello i wondered if you still have access to this record I tried the link but it is not working for me possibly it is for members of one of the ancestry websites as it reads that the record is kept private to respect their partners.
I believe that means that Familysearch's contract with the original record holder might only have allowed them to display the images for a certain period of time and that time expired between 2013 and now.
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the index record at ancestry gives his birth date as mentioned. he arrived 1963 in Rio de Janeiro. parents William Frost, Margaret Frost.
in the Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, Immigration Cards, 1900-1965
FHL Film Number 004921080
I found this at familysearch while trying to access the record by browsing:
Image Restricted
Image access is typically determined by local laws or the custodian who has the original document.
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Thanks, that is a real shame as a picture would have been the best way for me to have either ruled it out or in.
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the index record at ancestry gives his birth date as mentioned. he arrived 1963 in Rio de Janeiro. parents William Frost, Margaret Frost.
in the Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, Immigration Cards, 1900-1965
FHL Film Number 004921080
I found this at familysearch while trying to access the record by browsing:
Image Restricted
Image access is typically determined by local laws or the custodian who has the original document.
Would anyone know if the records contain an image anywhere else , I have a subscription to ancestry and it is only the written records available there. I note myheritage has them listed but I am not a member so no idea if they have the images (photos) that were mentioned back in the past or if these have been removed from the web completely.
Would the immigration card be held anywhere else?
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the film is probably at the LDS family history library in Salt Lake City. I don't remember the proper title. If there is an LDS church near you, there might be a local family history center associated with it. You could ask them. They used to send out copies of the film but I think they discontinued that.
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Brazil, Rio de Janeiro, Immigration Cards, 1900-1980
Indexes and images of immigration cards issued by Brazilian consulates around the world and presented at the port of entry by foreigners visiting or immigrating to Brazil. These records are housed at the National Archives in Rio de Janeiro. Additional images and indexed records will be published as they become available.
https://www.familysearch.org/en/search/collection/1932363
this page went with it. I don't think it will help much, but it might.
https://www.familysearch.org/en/wiki/Brazil,_Rio_de_Janeiro,_Immigration_Cards_-_FamilySearch_Historical_Records
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Try contacting the National Archives in Rio de Janeiro. (Which might have moved since that information was written, Brasilia has been the capital for a long time.)
Best place to start is with the local LDS. They might know how you could find someone to access the film in SLC, if they won't send it out.
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Thanks, I am clutching at straws a little, as if it is 'my' Alan Frost, it would make his age in the picture I posted @ 52 years old, it is hard to tell with black and white pictures, but he doesn't look that old to me, but not beyond the realms of possibility, I suppose.
Many thanks for your help. I am coming to the end of over 30 years of searching for this broken link in my family history, and I am no closer now than I was back in the days of microfilm and paper records. DNA was going to be the big help I thought, but it has really given me very little except a 1st cousin who has found it just as difficult to trace his roots as I have and no Frost relative in his tree either.
The one thing DNA has confirmed is the area he must have come from, and this is Irish, Scottish Welsh, which leads me to believe this branch of the tree was possibly a victim of the system of government policy at the time and probably had no knowledge of his own ancestors, 'Frost' possibly being a name he was either given or decided upon when he or his ancestor arrived in Canada.
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could you post what you know about your Alan Davenport? approx date of birth, parents' names?, date of death, etc.
I have some access to myheritage right now and will try to look for him.
Also everything you have about where the record is on myheritage. I have found the database, but so far have only found an Alan Davenport Walwyn.
I also need to go back through this thread. I didn't pay much attn. to the earlier information from 2013.
Will get back to you either way. Tnx
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I found this but there is no image available.
Alan Davenport Frost
Gender: Male
Birth: Apr 4 1905
Withington G B
Marital status: Married
Immigration: 1963
Rio De Janeiro, Rio De Janeiro, Brazil
Nationality: Britain
Father: William Frost
Mother: Margaret Frost
Traveling With Children: No
Digital Folder Number: 004567564
Image Number: 00130
I don't think my link would help you. It is through a public library in Boston.
So you are back to contacting the Archives in Rio or the local Family History Library/Center (?).
one other possibility - a full subscription access to myheritage might access the image, but I doubt it. Similar access to ancestry is as good as a full subscription.
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Let's try working backward from your Alan Frost.
He doesn't look 54 in the picture taken in Toronto in 1958, I'd say 30 at most, so born between maybe 1918 and 1928.
For one reason or another, that might not be his birth name. I don't think government policy would have been a factor that recently, but it really doesn't affect the search.
So, do you have any DNA links to the Withington, Lancashire, area, where their Alan Davenport Frost was from?
Where did you test the DNA? Do you only have the general region, or do you match specific individuals?
If you have matched specific individuals, can you trace back their families?
Do you match anyone but the first cousin you mentioned? If you have a few good matches, sometimes you can "triangulate" to the common ancestor.
Are you or your cousin a direct male descendant of your Alan Frost? Have you submitted your y-DNA anywhere?
Where have you posted the DNA results? Try uploading them to a few sites, you might find more matches. Ancestry will not accept uploads, but if you tested there you can download the results and upload them to gedmatch or familytreeDNA, both of which have helped me and someone else I know. I think myheritage.com also accepts uploads.
Is the match in Rio helpful? Have you talked to them? Even if not, can you work backward from them?
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added: did you know this first cousin before hand? if not, how do you connect to him?
Your Alan Frost is not that far back. If he had children, brothers, sisters, or 1st cousins, you should be able to find something at least.
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Are you or your cousin a direct male descendant of your Alan Frost? Have you submitted your y-DNA anywhere?
I went back through the thread and saw that your Alan is your wife's father, not on your side.
Don't post it, but 1) when and where was your wife born? Have you looked for anyone named Alan Frost in the area at the time? Does that help you estimate Alan's birth year? Or in Toronto in 1958? If you are in the UK, could he have been a Canadian soldier stationed there?
I'm sure you've probably asked yourself all these questions in the past 30 years, but I listed them just in case.
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Thanks for the help and all the suggestions. I have tried most avenues over the years but never seem to get anywhere it is as if he did not exist. My late wife was the result of a holiday romance in 1958 her mother who was also an adoptee returned to the uk from Canada pregnant and subsequently had a private adoption the fathers name was never recorded on any paperwork.
We traced her mother 20 or so years ago and she gave us the pictures and name of Alan and the holiday romance story, everything seemed to be going well but at some point the relationship broke down and no more information was ever given.
I have found several Alan Frosts over the years in Canadian records a few who fit the age and location requirements but have never been able to get over the last hurdle and get a positive link to the images or to the DNA. The first cousin was found through myheritage dna testing and only has limited knowledge of his own fathers background and no knowledge of any connection to Canada or any Frost family in his tree. All leads via family trees are dead ends and only one good link between the 1st cousin and another 3rd cousin but again no leads in either tree.
Hopefully over time the dna will get some more matches i have shared it to all available platforms.
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Thanks for the background. So much depends on someone in his family being curious enough about their ancestry to take a DNA test and post it. I worked with someone a year or two ago who was able to find his father's birth parents, and I know a person locally who found her birth mother a year ago and had some leads for her birth father.
I really hope you find him.