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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: KatieL on Monday 18 November 13 17:40 GMT (UK)

Title: Looking for birth
Post by: KatieL on Monday 18 November 13 17:40 GMT (UK)
Hi,

I'm trying to find a birth record for Winifred M D Oldham, born in 1929. I'm looking on behalf of someone else and that's the only information I've got, so I'm trying to find her place of birth and mother's maiden name so I can go back from there. I've done a search but can't find the record, can anyone help me find any information?
Title: Re: Looking for birth
Post by: JJen on Monday 18 November 13 18:00 GMT (UK)
Hi,

Have you tried looking for a death record of Winifred to establish her birth year or are you certain that it is 1929?

Have found no birth details of a Winifred M D Oldham as yet  ???

JJ
Title: Re: Looking for birth
Post by: KatieL on Monday 18 November 13 18:17 GMT (UK)
Thanks for looking. The person who gave me the information helped to arrange her funeral and seems sure about when she was born.

He thinks it's possible her parents divorced. If she took her mother's maiden name or a stepfather's name, is there any way of finding a record of this? Apart from that I don't know where else to look.
Title: Re: Looking for birth
Post by: spendlove on Monday 18 November 13 18:19 GMT (UK)
Hi,

No obvious birth, but lots of possibles for Oldham and then there are these for Holden

There is a birth Dec Q 1925:-
Holden    Winifred D M    Hirons    Pershore    6c   274

There is a marriage  Dec Q 1943:-
Holden    Winifred D M    Henry    Pershore    6c   518

Have you any clue about the area she is thought to have been born or lived in later life?

Did she ever marry?

Spendlove

Title: Re: Looking for birth
Post by: suziq on Monday 18 November 13 18:22 GMT (UK)
Hi
There is a Winifred M.Oldham J/A/S 1927 Newcastle 10B 83 m/n Bewley

Suziq
Title: Re: Looking for birth
Post by: ChrissieL on Monday 18 November 13 18:26 GMT (UK)
Did the person arranging her funeral have her death certificate giving any more details
Title: Re: Looking for birth
Post by: KatieL on Monday 18 November 13 18:31 GMT (UK)
Thanks,

She was the long term partner of my relative but they never married, and I'm pretty sure she was never married before that. I think she lived in London as a child but I don't know if she was born there. At some point she moved to Essex where she lived until her death.

I'm not sure if he has seen the death certificate, but will find out. He seems certain she was born in 1929 though.
Title: Re: Looking for birth
Post by: avm228 on Monday 18 November 13 18:36 GMT (UK)
Even if your contact doesn't have access to the death certificate, sufficient details to identify the death registration (where in Essex did she die, when and in what name) would help a lot.
Title: Re: Looking for birth
Post by: KatieL on Monday 18 November 13 18:42 GMT (UK)
She died 12/10/13, so I don't think any records will be online yet. She lived in Clacton though, and as far as I know she always used the same name.
Title: Re: Looking for birth
Post by: carol8353 on Monday 18 November 13 18:50 GMT (UK)
Her Obit is under the name Wendy.

http://www.clactonandfrintongazette.co.uk/announcements/deaths/deaths/10791353.Wendy_Oldham/
Title: Re: Looking for birth
Post by: avm228 on Monday 18 November 13 18:53 GMT (UK)
Her Obit is under the name Wendy.

http://www.clactonandfrintongazette.co.uk/announcements/deaths/deaths/10791353.Wendy_Oldham/

Recent electoral rolls for Clacton show a Wendy M. Oldham in the right age bracket.
Title: Re: Looking for birth
Post by: carol8353 on Monday 18 November 13 18:59 GMT (UK)
Her pension records should show her exact DOB......as should the death cert,if the person registering it knew the correct date!
Title: Re: Looking for birth
Post by: KatieL on Monday 18 November 13 19:22 GMT (UK)
Thanks everyone for looking. I'll check how he knew the date of birth, but it fits with the age shown in the paper.
Title: Re: Looking for birth
Post by: ChrissieL on Monday 18 November 13 19:25 GMT (UK)
I wonder if he has any clue as to what the M D stood for in her name?
Title: Re: Looking for birth
Post by: Justaleafonatree on Monday 18 November 13 20:16 GMT (UK)
Perhaps contacting the crematorium that handled her arrangements.  It's listed in her obit.  Surely they would have needed all the required paperwork.
Title: Re: Looking for birth
Post by: KatieL on Wednesday 20 November 13 15:58 GMT (UK)
A bit more information- she was Winifred Margaret Doris Oldham (known as Wendy), DOB was 25/07/29. We got the DOB from her solicitor.

I've just done another search for a birth without the surname and there's a Winifred M D registered in Bethnal Green in Jul-Sep 1929. If both middle names are given on the birth certificate, would both initials be shown on the record or could she be one of the Winifred M's?
Title: Re: Looking for birth
Post by: carol8353 on Wednesday 20 November 13 16:51 GMT (UK)
That one is sure looking good.

Although if she wasn't originally registered with the Doris,and it was added later then you may be back to square 1.

Let's see if we can trace that girl.....

Back soon

Carol

Well she only exists as a birth,no marriage or death.
Mum's name was also Winifred M as shown on her 1922 marriage.
don't want to give too much away in case anyone is still alive.
Title: Re: Looking for birth
Post by: carol8353 on Wednesday 20 November 13 16:56 GMT (UK)
There are 3 children born to that couple,from 1923 -1929 all have 2 middle initials.

Archibald J H (John Henry) b 1926 died in Essex in March 1962- he was married.

Christopher William G b 1923 died in Waltham Forest in 1990.
Title: Re: Looking for birth
Post by: carol8353 on Wednesday 20 November 13 17:13 GMT (UK)
Looks like mum did indeeed remarry.She's down with both her maiden and married surnames.


Marriages Dec 1937   

Cardoza    Winifred M    Cooper    Hackney    1b   874    
Cooper    Alfred S    Foxton    Hackney    1b   874    
Cooper    Alfred S    Cardoza    Hackney    1b   874    
Foxton    Winifred M    Cooper    Hackney    1b   874   

And a further 1941 birth that may belong to the above couple,but not in London,up here in Northamptonshire!!!

Perhaps they were evacuated out of London during the war.
Title: Re: Looking for birth
Post by: KatieL on Wednesday 20 November 13 17:52 GMT (UK)
Thanks very much for your help Carol.

The only other thing I've been told about her is she may have been evacuated to Wales before going back to London. I think it's looking like she may have been adopted as I can't work out where else the name Oldham came from.
Title: Re: Looking for birth
Post by: carol8353 on Wednesday 20 November 13 17:55 GMT (UK)
Thanks very much for your help Carol.

The only other thing I've been told about her is she may have been evacuated to Wales before going back to London. I think it's looking like she may have been adopted as I can't work out where else the name Oldham came from.

  Either that or she took her real dad's name?

No,she took her grandma's surname. ;D
Title: Re: Looking for birth
Post by: KatieL on Wednesday 20 November 13 18:05 GMT (UK)
For some reason I hadn't thought of that! Would there be any way of finding details about children who were evacuated? Or maybe they're confidential.
Title: Re: Looking for birth
Post by: carol8353 on Wednesday 20 November 13 18:15 GMT (UK)
For some reason I hadn't thought of that! Would there be any way of finding details about children who were evacuated? Or maybe they're confidential.

They're too recent I suspect.Try a search on here and see what comes up. I'm sure the subject has been covered before. Maybe if you get her birth cert you can confirm it's the right girl (DOB) and see who it gives as her dad- perhaps that's the reason they split up?

Mum is in Bethnal Green in 1929 and 30,but then doesn't appear as Foxton after that.
Title: Re: Looking for birth
Post by: ..claire.. on Wednesday 20 November 13 18:32 GMT (UK)
Hi

May have solved the surname problem

Winifred's  (Wendy) mother was Winifred M Cardoza born in 1903 to parents William Cordoza and Esther Stokes.

William Cardoza died young in 1923 and her mother Esther  remarried in 1928 to a Thomas Oldham.

claire
Title: Re: Looking for birth
Post by: carol8353 on Wednesday 20 November 13 18:44 GMT (UK)
Hi

May have solved the surname problem

Winifred's  (Wendy) mother was Winifred M Cardoza born in 1903 to parents William Cordoza and Esther Stokes.

William Cardoza died young in 1923 and her mother Esther  remarried in 1928 to a Thomas Oldham.

claire

Clever girl Claire  ;D

Never thought to look into her Cardoza side !

Isn't it great how we all approach a problem from a different angle and together come up with answers ?

Carol
Title: Re: Looking for birth
Post by: carol8353 on Wednesday 20 November 13 18:51 GMT (UK)
Esther as Cardoza is at 1 Henrietta Street Bethnal Green in 1920,26 and 28.
And as Esther Oldham with Thomas and an Alfred Cardoza from 1930 onwards to at least 1936.

EUREKA !!!

IN 1952 and 1950 Winifred Margaret Doris Oldham is with grandma Esther Oldham and Henry S Cardoza at 67 Palace Gates Roa,d Wood Green,London N22

She may have been there before that too.
Title: Re: Looking for birth
Post by: Ladyhawk on Wednesday 20 November 13 18:55 GMT (UK)

Winifred's  (Wendy) mother was Winifred M Cardoza born in 1903 to parents William Cordoza and Esther Stokes.


Winifred Maud Cardoza born 22 Sep 1902
Baptism 12 Oct 1902 St Phillip Bethnal Green
William Cardoza occ Wood sawyer & Esther

Winifred M Cardoza married 1922 shoreditch C Foxton

1929 ER Tower Hamlet Bethnal Green address 8 Crescent Place
Winifred M Foxton, C Foxton (male), S Foxton (female)
(Carol8353 given details)

Winifred M Cardoza/Foxton married 1937 Hackney A S Cooper
(Carol8353 given you details of this)

1939 Electoral Register address 20 Loddiges Road Hackney
Thomas & Esther Oldham
A S (male) & Winifred Maud Cooper
William, Margaret & Henry Cardoza

25 Dec 1899 St Phillips Church Bethnal Green
William Cardoza 22 Sawyer f Samuel occ Gilder
Esther Stokes 22 Machinist f George occ boot las?
Both single, both signed, both 69 Sclak? St
Witness William John Cl(?)ff & Eunice Cardoza

William Joshua Cardoza bapt 18 Mar 1877 St James the Great Bethnal Green
F Samuel occ Gilder m Sarah abode 6 Providence Place
Title: Re: Looking for birth
Post by: ..claire.. on Wednesday 20 November 13 19:00 GMT (UK)
Hi

Thanks Carol  ;D ~ it's all coming together now !!

Here are their probate records

Thomas Oldham of 218 Dalston Lane Hackney died 15 Aug. 1940 at 1a Manor Rd Ilford Essex. Administration 23 Dec. 1941 to Esther Oldham, widow.
Effects: £411 2s 9d.

Esther Oldham of 67 Palace Gate Rd Wood Green widow died 21 March 1953. Probate London 5 June 1953 to William George Cardoza engineer.
Effects: £201  12s 1d.

claire
Title: Re: Looking for birth
Post by: carol8353 on Wednesday 20 November 13 19:01 GMT (UK)

Esther Oldham of 67 Palace Gate Rd Wood Green widow died   21 March 1953. 
Probate London 5 June 1953 to William George Cardoza engineer.
Effects: £201  12s 1d.

claire

I was 13 days old  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Looking for birth
Post by: KatieL on Wednesday 20 November 13 19:29 GMT (UK)
Thanks for all the research, I've written it all down and I'll pass it on. I was originally supposed to be finding out if she had any relatives still alive, so now I've got some names of siblings, aunts and uncles I'll see if I can find any.

I'm pleased I've found out where the surname came from, it's interesting she changed it.
Title: Re: Looking for birth
Post by: carol8353 on Wednesday 20 November 13 20:52 GMT (UK)
There are 3 children born to that couple,from 1923 -1929 all have 2 middle initials.

Archibald J H (John Henry) b 1926 died in Essex in March 1962- he was married.

Christopher William G b 1923 died in Waltham Forest in 1990.

Archibald married in Bethnal Green in 1948.

There are 2 possible births in West Ham in the early 1950's.

********************

And Christopher married in Hackney in 1945.

Four possible births on Free BMD after that date too.

Title: Re: Looking for birth
Post by: jorose on Thursday 21 November 13 13:27 GMT (UK)
Her parents did divorce:
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/Details?uri=C8085310
Note that the husband initiated the divorce proceedings and the "co-respondent" named looks to be the same man that Winifred married in 1937.
Title: Re: Looking for birth
Post by: carol8353 on Thursday 21 November 13 14:02 GMT (UK)
Well found Jorose, I never think that records that recent are online,but they obviously are!
Title: Re: Looking for birth
Post by: Bridgy2014 on Thursday 06 March 14 18:03 GMT (UK)
Hi Katie

I am the daughter of Christopher WG Foxton - brother to your Wendy (Winifred).  I have been trying to find her and it is sad I am too late.  However I am interested to know if she had any children with her partner?  Do I have any living relatives?

I have only just joined Roots so cannot PM you yet.

Title: Re: Looking for birth
Post by: Ladyhawk on Thursday 06 March 14 18:07 GMT (UK)
Hello and welcome Bridgy2014  :)

If you just make another two reply's on this thread with just an hello or something similar
you will then be able to use the personal message system straight away and get in contact
Title: Re: Looking for birth
Post by: Bridgy2014 on Thursday 06 March 14 19:27 GMT (UK)
Hello
Title: Re: Looking for birth
Post by: Bridgy2014 on Thursday 06 March 14 19:27 GMT (UK)
Thanks for the suggestion
Title: Re: Looking for birth
Post by: Ladyhawk on Friday 07 March 14 06:20 GMT (UK)
Thanks for the suggestion

You are welcome :)

Looking at KatieL profile she hasn't been on Rootschat since Nov 2013 but hopefully
will receive notification of these posts and any personal message sent if her email is still active.

Good luck