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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: kinged on Thursday 14 November 13 15:58 GMT (UK)
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Hi, I am looking for information on Alice Slater; Alice was born circa 1876 in Lichfield Staffs, on 1881 census she was living at 31 church lane (school house) Lichfield with her parents John & Hannah Slater, and brothers Joseph, Thomas And George, on 1871 there was also a Mary Ann, William John, and Hannah Elizabeth Slater as their children.
By 1891 Hannah E Slater had Married Arthur Griffin and was living at 315 Ashton road, Openshaw, Manchester. and Alice was listed as a visitor.
In 1895 William John age 33 was married to a Jessie Eleanor Robins in Rhyl N Wales.
In 1897 Alice who was single gave birth to a son Thomas Slater, at 16 Gronant St, Rhyl, on the register her Father was given as John Slater, Farmer, and the informant was William John Slater.
Thomas was brought up by John Edwin and Hannah Slater who I can find no connection to Alice, although John Edwin was born in Burton on Trent, and Hannah in Denbigh.
They told their other children that Thomas was found on the doorstep, which sounds to me that John Edwin may have been the father and was told you caused the problem, you bring him up.
IN 1901 Alice was back living with her parents at 4 church lane, lichfield, father was a dairyman, also there was Arthur griffin grandson born 1889 Manchester.
on 1911 census Alice may have been living at 124 victoria st, Openshaw, manchester. as a housekeeper to a William Curtis, her age was given as 35, and her place of birth Lichfied, and still single.
What I woul like to know is did she ever get married, and where might she have been buried as Thomas' children believed that he was the son of John Edwin and Hannah Slater until they discovered the truth in later life and would like to learn what happened to their grandmother.
Thanking you for any cooperation,
Frank
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Where is Thomas (age about 4) in 1901?
I can see the John E, and Hannah and he's not with them.
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In 1897 Alice who was single gave birth to a son Thomas Slater, at 16 Gronant St, Rhyl, on the register her Father was given as John Slater, Farmer, and the informant was William John Slater.
Hi
Can you explain this a bit more ? What register is it?
I thought at first you meant the birth cert, but then you say it gives HER father as John? Who's father? Birth certs would not name the mother's father. Does this mean HIS father, as in the baby Thomases? Which is how I read it to start with?
Who exactly does it name as mother? (Assuming we are talking a birth cert)
And where does William John fit in? Does he give any relationship, or any reasonwhy he is registering the child not its mother? That does tie up with the baby being abandoned.
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Thomas was registered in the St Asaph District of Denbighshire 1897.
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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I am a little lost to ,
I see Alice living in the household of Arthur Griffin in 1891 ,which only confirms her connection to Hannah and the child later found with Alices parents,
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William John and Jessie are back in Shropshire by 1901 and little Thomas isnt with them.
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Thomas is a visitor in Armitage, Staffordshire on the 1901 census. RG13/2657 folio 45 page 14. Head of Household was a David Cooke and his wife Sarah was born Lichfield.
Mo
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Hi all,
thank you all for your prompt replies.
Alice Slater is marked on Thomas' birth gertificate as his mother, and she is a spinster, daughter of John Slater, Farmer, informant was William John Slater,Alice's Brother who was living in Rhyl at the time, I presume Alice went to Rhyl to have the baby to avoid any scandel as her father was sexton and parish clerk christ church.
Thomas was on the 1901 census living with his sister Barbara and brother Ernest at Brynford Nr Holywell on the census, he was also on the census with david cooke and his wife as a visitor at Armitage possibly to be where Alice could visit him without anyone knowing he was her son.
John Edwin Slater and Hannah who brought thomas up were in Llanrwst in 1901, but at the time when Thomas was born they were probably living at the gate house Caerwys, also Nr Holywell which is where they were in 1891; it's possible that they moved to avoid explaining why they suddenly had this new baby as they already had a daughter the same age as Thomas.
I realise this is all very complicated,but Thomas' two daughters and son would like to know what happened to Alice as they knew nothing of their fathers life until ten years ago.
Frank
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Is there a father named on the birth cert.?
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Hi lizdb
No, and the only thing that I can find that links John Edwin and Hannah Slater to Alice is the name Slater, and that both families come from staffordshire,
Frank
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It looks to me like an example of a young girl being sent away to the country in disgrace to have her baby, and coming home to carry on as if nothing had happened.
In Alice's case, going to brother William John.
Seems maybe the baby was taken from her immediately, if William registered the birth, not Alice.
Then the baby went for unofficial 'adoption'.
I would imagine John and Hannah are some sort of relation. Too much coincidence for the family that took him on to have the same surname from the same area.
You will never know Thomas's father.
I would say highly unlikely to be John Slater.
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Thomas is a visitor in Armitage, Staffordshire on the 1901 census. RG13/2657 folio 45 page 14. Head of Household was a David Cooke and his wife Sarah was born Lichfield.
Mo
I'm not sure I am following all this properly but 1911 free index shows a 13 yr old 'Thomes' Cooke in the Cooke household ??? http://www.1911census.co.uk. Could he be the Thomas Slater from 1901?
This may not be important as you have him with 'sister' Barbara anyway.
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Hi
I don't have acsess t0 1911 census, But Thomas' daughter told me that he is on the census wth John Edwin and Hannah, and is said to be adopted with the name Platt; surely if he had been adopted he would have been called Slater,and this may have been used to cover for the fact that they had a daughter the same age as Thomas.
I still believe that John Edwin must have been the father, as why would he take on a child when he already had six or seven children aready, and why would all John's children, and grandchildren all still believe that he was found on the doorstep? (My mother-in-law included).
Thomas never told any of his family anything about his upbringing, and it was not until I started to research the Family that I found out who his mother was, and they are now anxious to find out what happened to her,and to find out where she was laid to rest.
Frank
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Was Thomas known as Platt or Slater?
Do you know that his mother was definitely the Alice Slater you refer to?
I see the informant is William John so I can see the connection but it is confusing, sorry.
I can't see Barbara Slater in 1881 nor a birth reference for her. :-\
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think this might be Barbara in 1881 in Denbigh
Henry Davies 54
Jane Davies 50
Mary H. Davies 25
William H. Davies 23
Martha J. Davies 20
Margaret E. Davies 15
Arthur E. Davies 12
Barbara E. Davies 8 - grandaughter
RG11, 5532, 4, 2
The maiden name of John Edwin's wife Hannah is Davies and she's born Denbigh 1854. This looks like the same family in 1871, with Hannah. I get the feeling John Edwin and Hannah may take in the odd waif and stray, given Barbara was born after their marriage - possible a child of Hannah's sister?? Presumably the Thomas on the doorstep story comes in as the other children are by then of an age to clearly know the child was not born to their parents
Henry Davies 44
Jane Davies 39
Hannah Davies 17
Mary H Davies 16
William H Davies 13
Martha J Davies 11
Margaret E Davies 5
Authur E Davies 2
RG10, 5672, 8, 7
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That's interesting, thank you.
I had wondered if Thomas was Barbara's son as he is with her in 1901.
As far as I can see, Caerwys is in Holywell district rather than St Asaph which would cover Rhyl.
There only seems to be the birth of Thomas Slater, St Asaph which is Alice's son and none in Holywell. There are a couple of Thomas Davies of course in Holywell but then it is a popular name.
That is why I asked if Alice is definitely known to the family as the mother.
If there were two Thomas', that would account for the two census entries.
**Just realised though that Barbara's age is out - she is 22 in 1901. :-\ but she is 16 in 1891 :)
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I don't believe the Barbara or John Edwin have anything to do with the Thomas born in Rhyl.I would say he is definitely with the Cooke family in 1901.
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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I don't believe the Barbara or John Edwin have anything to do with the Thomas born in Rhyl.I would say he is definitely with the Cooke family in 1901.
Regards
William Russell Jones.
Do you mean that you think there are two Thomases which is what I am wondering at the moment?
I don't think as yet, that there is enough proof to say that Alice is the mother, unless the family know this historically.
It looks as though Barbara may have been born before John Edwin's marriage so there is a strong possibility that she is John and Hannah's child.
It is difficult with her age being different in censuses.
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I don't believe the Barbara or John Edwin have anything to do with the Thomas born in Rhyl.I would say he is definitely with the Cooke family in 1901.
Regards
William Russell Jones.
Do you mean that you think there are two Thomases which is what I am wondering at the moment?
I don't think as yet, that there is enough proof to say that Alice is the mother, unless the family know this historically.
It looks as though Barbara may have been born before John Edwin's marriage so there is a strong possibility that she is John and Hannah's child.
It is difficult with her age being different in censuses.
Well there was only one Thomas born in Rhyl which is the focus of this thread!He is showing as born in the St Asaph Registration District as I showed in an earlier reply.
Now if there was another Thomas Slater admittedly with Barbara showing as born in Caerwys Flintshire,he would be shown as born in the Holywell Registration District.I can find no record of his birth either on Free BMD or on North Wales BMD.
There are records showing of the latter Thomas's supposed brother Ernest Slater but again despite the surname Slater,I can't see any link between this family and the family of Alice.
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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Thomas shows as born Caerwys in two censuses and as Thomas Slater and Thomas Platt.
There is a Thomas Slater born Rhyl in 1901 with the Cook/e family.
There is a Thomas Cooke in 1911 born Armitage with that family according to the indexes.
Is Thomas Slater born Rhyl, the same one who is born Caerwys and therefore on census in two places or is he registered with a different name but just known as Slater because of Barbara and Ernest?
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Hi All.
Thank you for your replies to this query.
I have Thomas' birth certificate which shows him being registered in St Asaph, as William John was the informant and was living in Rhyl where Thomas was born, he would have been registered in St Asaph which was the office for Rhyl at that time. The other members of the family were registered at Whitford which sugests that there was no office at Holywell at that time.
While I know that the family were living at the gate house (toll gate) in Caerwys in 1891 we don't know that they were there in 1897 when thomas was born; the gate house only had two rooms,presumably one living and one bedroom; with Jeanette being born in 1893 and Winnefred in 1897, (The same year as Thomas) it is possible that they had moved to larger premises; the gate house is situated between Caerwys and the A55, and is equel distance between St Asaph and Holywell..
I think that Ernest and Thomas were living with Barbara in 1901, if maybe only temporary, and that barbara put him on the census on that basis, as for the Thomas staying with David Cooke and his wife, he was only put down as a visitor, and as I sugested earlier could have been there so that Alice could visit him secretly without her family knowing.
Thomas was back with John Edwin and Hannah in 1911 which shows him as adopted.
If he was adopted, why would they not come out and say so? instead of saying that he was found on the doorstep, then there would have been no confusion.
Thank you all again for your help, and let us hope that we can find what happened to Alice.
Frank.
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Thanks for your explanations.
Did your family know Thomas as Slater or Platt?
I know that the name Slater makes the Rhyl born Thomas a very strong candidate but if that is the only evidence, I am wary of that for the reasons re birthplace and the change of name.
I just wonder if Alice Slater had her child Thomas who was then left with the Cooks and given the name Cook.
Whilst another child Thomas was given the name Slater in 1901 census and then adopted and given Platt.
Whitford was a sub district of Holywell registration district which covered Caerwys.
There is a published tree for the Slater family of Lichfield which looks to have a photograph of an elderly Alice. It can be viewed on Mundia.
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Hi Heywood
Thanks for your reply. Thomas was always known as Slater by the Family, and the fact that he was shown as being with the family members, and as being born in Rhyl, and that no other thomas slater of that age was born in rhyl at that time suggests to me that Thomas shown with the Cookes as a visiter, and the Thomas shown as with Barbara as a brother are one and the same.
I have a photograph of Thomas in army uniform with his brother Albert ( my wifes grandfather) and his sister Winnefred who was born in the same year as Thomas.
Alberts family all believed the story that thomas was found on the doorstep; if he had been adopted at birth, Why would they not have said so? There would have been no shame in that.
It's possible that he was adopted at a later date when he would have needed his birth certificate for some reason eg,passport, in order to avoid any embarasment. I guess we'll never know.
Frank
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I do apologise for keep going on about it - it's just the element of doubt to me.
He may have been known as Slater because that was the name of the family who raised him.
There was no formal adoption procedure at that time but obviously informal ones.
Did his birthday match that of the birth certificate?
Did you get to see that tree with the photo of Alice?
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Have you found a birth for the Winnefred Slater?
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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Hi Heywood @ WRJones
Thanks for your replies; The fact that he was Slater on his Birth certificate as was his mother, and that he was on the census with his sister and brother ( if not perhaps present on the night) as Slater, and that no other Thomas can be found as born in Rhyl of that age leads me to believe he was the right person, also, his children were all Christened slater.
His birth date on the certificate was 27-4-1897; I don't know which day he called his birthday, I suppose it's possible that John and Hannah will not have had his birth certificate, if he was just dumped on the step, (or handed over to them) which ever the case maybe. I don't have the birth date of Winnifred, but the family all say she was the same age as Thomas.
Thanks again,
Frank
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I couldn't find a birth entry for Winnefred anywhere either,its very worrying!
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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Hello again,
I do accept that is your belief - I don't want to cause any distress.
I have mentioned twice already and as you are really looking for Alice Slater, have you viewed the tree which seems to have a photo of the older Alice? You haven't mentioned it and it would be very rewarding if it was her.
Regards
Heywood
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Hi heywood @ wr Jones
Thanks again. No I haven't Checked the sight for Alice Just Yet as I haven't had time, other commitments also, but will try to get round to it soon.
Thanks again
Frank
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Hi heywood @ wr Jones
Thanks again. No I haven't Checked the sight for Alice Just Yet as I haven't had time, other commitments also, but will try to get round to it soon.
Thanks again
Frank
That's great - you might find out some more details there.
Good luck
heywood
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hi Heywood,
Thanks, I had a quick look Last night, but was unable to find anything, I'm afraid I'm not very good at finding my way around web sites; what should I have been looking for? I looked under archives, probably the wrong place.
It has occured to me that maybe I should try to find the baptism records of Thomas, this might just have a name for a father, and god parents; I could try the church where William John and Jessie Robins got married, it would probably depend on how long after the birth it was before he was given away, I don't know when I will be able to get there though, hopefuly soon.
Frank
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Hi Frank,
Go to http://www.mundia.com/gb/.
You need to register and then sign in - free.
Go to find people.
Search for Alice Slater born Lichfield
A list of trees with Alice shows - one with photo.
Hope it works for you.
I too had thought of baptismal records. Do Thomas' s children know his birthdate?
Regards
Heywood
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Hi Heywood
Thank you for that,I will try that when I can, but have to go out later.
I have checked the 1901 census for the age of winnefred, and found that her age was given as 3, the same age as that for Thomas; I tried to contact Thomas' daughter who told me of the entry on the 1911 census but did not get a response (maybe on holiday) will try again,I hoped she would be able to tell me the age of both Thomas and Winefred listed there.
I have Thomas' army records which show him as joining in June 1917, and putting his age as 21 yrs 10months, on a later reference he put his date of birth as 26 8 95. whereas thomas staying with Barbara put down as her brother (why would she put him as her brother if he was not?) was registered as 27 4 97.
If they are one and the same person it is posible that he did not know his birth date as John and Hannah may not have been given his birth cetificate, if as they said he was found on the doorstep; we also don't know how long after the birth he was left with the Slaters.
On Thomas' army records he used the name Thomas Platt Slater; He was called up again for the second world war but had dropped the name platt by then.
Still a mystery.
Frank
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I am wondering if we are looking at more than one person here. (I think this has been mooted before!)
This Thomas Platt Slater that you are researching seems clearly to be born in Aug 1895, or believes himself to be.
An Alice Slater had a baby in 1897, called Thomas Slater. A different person?
I would go back to basics. Forget Alice and her family for the moment.
List all you KNOW about the 'right' Thomas Slater. Don't make facts fit the family story - start with a clean sheet.
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I think it is a mystery, you are right Frank.
For example, there doesn't seem to be a birth for her and she is not with the family in 1911. The indexes show a Winifred Slater 15 yrs in Denbighshire but she is born Shropshire.
Yes, lizdb, I have mooted two different Thomases.
My reasons being, that if one Thomas, the one born Caerwys can have two names, Slater and Platt, so could the 'other' Thomas - Slater and Cooke.
It could be a coincidence that Alice Slater had her boy Thomas in St Asaph district (not Holywell ) .
Thomas Platt Slater may have used the name Slater because that was the name of his adoptive parents.
I know I said I wouldn't mention it again but I really do think there is not enough evidence to prove the assumption that he is Alice's son - yet.
Often, people used the name of their father as a middle name. I can't see a Thomas Platt though :-\
There is also quite a gap in The ages of John and Hannah's children. :-\
Heywood
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Thanks Lizdb, and heywood'
I hear what you say and have E-mailed Thomas' Daughter who gave me the 1911 census listing of Thomas to tell me what age was put for him, but I haven't recieved a reply yet, there seems to be some confusion about his age, I believe at one tim he put his month of birth as June.
The one thing that bothers me is why did they say that he was found on the doorstep, which is what all the family have been told if he was adopted, surely it is an honourable thing to adopt a child, so why try to hide it.
I know of one person who was born out of wedlock who was adopted by her stepfather at the age of 16 so that it would make things look more respectable when applying for a passport etc, could this be the case with Thomas I wonder?
One thing I have learned while researching this case is that many untruths were put onto documents in those days,eg, Hannah was single, and living with her parents on the 1871 census, and John Edwin was living with his sister and her Husband in Newcastle under lyne, they got married in 1873; on Barbara's birth certificate it says daughter of Hannah Thomas formaly Davies and John Thomas deceased, but I found no record of a marriage or a death for John Thomas, and John Thomas was a name sometimes given to the male private parts in those days.
On the 1881 census barbara was living with her grand parents as Davies aged 8 ten years later she was said to be 16, and on the 1801 census she was given as head of family and working as house keeper for her father age 22, when in fact she would have been 28, and her father was living 20 or 30 miles away.
Frank
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Surely being found on the doorstep and being adopted are not mutually exclusive?
Either he WAS actually found on their doorstep. And then they took him in and 'adopted ' him.
OR,
they took him in and' adopted ' him from someone, but instead of telling him of a sad and complex start to his life, stirring up all sorts of hornets nests, and maybe something the family wanted covered up, they just told him he had been found on the doorstep. Presumably hoping this would mean he would never think it worth trying to find his true parentage.
Remember any adoption would be an unofficial arrangement. Formal adoption began in about the 1920's I believe
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Hi again,
Thomas looks to be 15 yrs in 1911 https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/X7VX-DNX
I'm not sure if you would ever get to the bottom of this story. Looking at 1911, some family members may have used their middle name so perhaps Winifred was a middle name or she was called by a different name after registration.
I wonder if there are any baptisms to search- can't see any online.
I also wonder if he was Barbara's child - although you would think he would be the right age then in the census, if she gave the information. As to the reasons given for his appearance in the family - it may have been better than under the gooseberry bush etc.
Barbara married in 1904 by the looks of it as Slater.
There is a marriage in 1871 where John Thomas and Hannah Davies are among the spouses - but common names.
Barbara was registered as Davies though wasn't she?
heywood
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Hi again
Thomas' age on 1811 gives his year of birth as 1886, the same as winifreda, unlike his army records which he had put as 1885, which suggests that he was unsure of his age.
Winifreda which is her name on the census shows her as being born Babell, Shropshire.
Babell is most definatel in Flintshire, and adjoining Caerwys.
All the places where the lived are within a three mile radious, eg, Lloc where the elder boys were born,Babell,caerwys,and the address for barbara which is given as in Brynford is only one mile from Caerwys.
I guess we are no nearer of solving this problem, and still don't know what happened to Alice after 1911,which is what thomas' family were seeking.
Thanks again.
Frank
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Hi Frank,
Just a couple of points:
You have the wrong years in your latest post but we know what you mean :)
1911 census was taken in April 1911
According to family and army records, Thomas's birthday was August (1895)
Therefore in April 1911, he would be 15 yrs.
The transcription just subtracts 15 from 1911 to give 1896.
Thanks for the explanation re the geography of the area.
As I said earlier, there is a tree for the family you have given for Alice which has a photo of an older lady - Alice Slater but I do think that there is a big doubt re Alice as mother to Thomas.
Heywood
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thanks heywood.
I tried to register with mundia, but they said that my E-mail address already existed, and the refused to accept it, which is odd because I have never been on it before, but I have passed the information on to Thomas' daughter.
frank
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If you have ancestry membership, you can see the tree there or use ancestry sign in on mundia.
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thanks Heywood
I'm afraid I don't Have ancestry as I have always felt that I wouldn't get much from it,I have researced this information about 8 yrs ago, and came to the same results as we are getting now and only took out a short term membership.
I have only started this now because Thomas' daughter wanted to try to have another go since finding more on the 1911 census.
Frank
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Hi all,
I realise that we can't prove 100% that Thomas was the son of Alice Slater who gave birth to him on 27th of April 1897 in Rhyl, but also we can't prove that he was not.
The Thomas on the 1911 census was the person that my mother-in-law was told by her father Albert that he was found on the doorstep, so if as he put his age as 1895 on his army records, where was he in 1901, where as the thomas on the 1901 census living with Barbara, and given as her brother, age three, more or less matches up to the date of 1897, because we don't know when he was left with John and Hannah slater, it is possible that she breast fed him for awhile, and handed him over in the August which is the month that Thomas gave as his birthday; she could have kept him until she moved back with her family, or when her brother William John moved to Shropshire, Whenever that may have been, I'm sure that as a mother she would have felt something for him, especialy as she probably only moved away to avoid any embarrasment to the family.
Jeanette, or Janet as she was called in 1911 was born in 1893, and winefred in 1897, so the 1895 date may have been given to make things look more respectable, coming halfway between the two; weighing all these things up tends to make me think that Thomas of 1901 and the Thomas of 1911 are one and the same, but it doesn't help us to find what happened to Alice after 1911.
Frank.
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Hi Frank,
As you know I am not at all convinced by your reasoning. The age on the census is odd but we don't know who gave the information and if, as I had once thought, Barbara was his mother, then you would think that she would have given a correct date. However in 1911, his age does fits with his birthdate.
I have given you a link to the family of Alice Slater several times now and can only advise you to look at that and if you think it is her, contact the tree owner. By the looks of it, Alice lived to an old (er) age so there may be some information on her within the family.
heywood
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I am agreeing with Heywood.
Thomas uses the name Platt in 1911, and then Thomas Platt Slater on army records, then drops the Platt.
This indicates to me that Platt was his own birth name, but he was "adopted" by the John and Hannah Slater for whatever reason, but as time went by he used less of the Platt and saw himself as their child, so used Slater as his surname.
Whether they just found him on the doorstep, or knew about his past we dont know, but as he had the surname Platt one thinks they must have known something to have given him that surname? Unless just registered as a foundling and it was the name of the policeman dealing with the case or something!
I can see no evidence that he is the child of Alice Slater.
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Hi all,
Jeanette, or Janet as she was called in 1911 was born in 1893, and winefred in 1897, so the 1895 date may have been given to make things look more respectable, coming halfway between the two; weighing all these things up tends to make me think that Thomas of 1901 and the Thomas of 1911 are one and the same, but it doesn't help us to find what happened to Alice after 1911.
Frank.
Jeanette's birth was registered in 1893 - she was 7 yrs in 1901 and 18 yrs in 1911
Winifred is 3 yrs in 1901 and 15 yrs in 1911 but there is no birth record for her with that name.
There is a Sarah Jane Slater registered in June 1897 who does not appear in death indexes or 1901.
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Hi Both
There was a Sarah Jane born to John and Hannah in 1874, and died in 1876, also a Jannette, born in 1876 and died at 18 months old;could the Sarah Jane born in 1897 be Winifred, I wonder;it is possible that they thought better of it for superstiseuos reasons, and Jeanette's name might have been Changed to Janet for the same reason, this sounds quite likely as there is no mention of Winnifred being born in 1897.
As I have pointed out there is a lot of untruths being used over that period to cover up various things, or so it would seem, eg, Barbara's birth is a bit suspicious, also her age on the census' George Edwins' marriage etc,and why are there two Thomas Slaters on the 1901 census both born in Rhyl, of the same age, But only one Thomas Slater registered there at that time, also the Thomas with the Cookes in Armitage was only said to be a Visitor, so he was definately not their son, which still leaves me to believe that both are one and the same.
Frank
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1901 only has one Thomas Slater born Rhyl and he is with the Cookes aged 3 yrs. There is no son Thomas Cooke with them but there is in 1911 - 13 yrs.
Your Thomas is born Caerwys according to both censuses.
I notice that the names Jeanette/Genette and Winifred do occur in Albert's family so they do seem to be family names.
I can't see a marriage or death for Winifred born 1897.
It does look as though you are not going to find out the mystery of Thomas from online records.
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The Thomas living with Barbara was also born in Rhyl on the census, and I used that information to apply for his birth certificate, unlike today when we fill in our own census form the enumerator went from house to house on the evening before, and will probably have asked who lives with you, and whether or not he was there on the night, she would probably have said Thomas lived with them; as I have pointed out before, the Thomas with the Cookes was only there as a visitor, and he was definately not with Alice or her family in 1901.
Winefred emigrated to Canada where she died.
Frank
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It is difficult because we both see this differently and you have an interest.
Thomas shows as born Caerwys in both 1901 and 1911.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/X91Z-B6D
A possibility could be that Thomas Slater, born Rhyl was visiting the Cookes and was then 'adopted' by them and becomes their son Thomas Cooke as in 1911.
However, there is no proof of this as there isn't either with your assumption that Thomas Platt born Caerwys is Thomas Slater born Rhyl.