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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Yasmina4 on Tuesday 12 November 13 16:41 GMT (UK)
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Have been wondering how the pine surname came about.
Could it have been derived from the French Lapin?
Mod please move if in wrong place
Sandra
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From "The Oxford Names Companion"
Pine. English topographic name for someone who lived by a conspicuous pine tree, or in a pine forest, from ME pine. It may also be a habitation name from various places named with this word, such as Le Pin in Calvados; in other cases it may originally have been a nickname for a tall, thin man, supposedly resembling a pine tree.
Stan
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Thank you. Useful food for thought. Sandra
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Nearly every surname origin book I have seen has given the origin as "dweller near the pine tree" or similar. It may well be, but the origins of the name go much further back. An American genealogist by the name of Moses Taylor Pyne did some very detailed research at the beginning of the 20th century,which he published in a couple of books. He had access to Devonshire wills, which are no longer available to us since the second world war.
MT Pyne had the theory that the name originated in Devonshire, from a single knight, who seems to have materialised out of nowhere. Pyne's theory was that this knight, Sir Herbert de Pyns, or de Pins, came to England with Eleanor of Aquitaine when she married Henry II. His theory bears fruit when you find a noble family of the same name living in Aquitaine.
Pyne did a lot of research into this French family, which seems to have been a branch of a northern Spanish house, de Pinos. This family originated in the Pyrenees behind Barcelona. In a town called Baga, there is a large statue of Galceran de Pinos, who helped to defeat the Moors in the area.
When one looks at the demographics of the name in England, there is almost certainly a Devon origin to the name, and almost all of the other instances before the 19th century can be explained.
The name has gone through several changes, mostly due to geography. De Pinos in Spain, de Pins in France, de Pins/de Pyns/de Pyne in medieval England, through to Pyne and Pine today.
My own family line changes from Pine to Pyne in the 1700's, seemingly due to an ancestor moving from one place to another.
Sorry for the long-winded answer, but I get excited when someone asks about the origin of the name. :)
Darren
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Hi Darren
I was delighted to read your very full response to my query.
Thank you very much.
Sandra
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My own family line is stuck in the 1500's in Devon. If the Devon wills were still available, I might have been able to connect up with these other Pine/Pyne families. It is only a matter of a parish or two separating them.
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How frustrating.
It appears the family papers for my coffin short family are hidden in south Africa..t'will be difficult to get that information. The a......y poster simply will not answer messages.
So i do sympathise with your dilemma. Were the papers bombed out of existence due to the war?
Sandra
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Apparently most of the Devonshire wills were stored in the Exeter Cathedral, which experienced severe bombing.
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How very sad.
Sandra
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It just makes the search that more interesting. I wouldn't want it too easy, otherwise I'd be like these people who go on Ancestry and simply copy others' trees, and ta-da! their family history is complete. (Tongue firmly in cheek)
On a more serious note, I have made some progress, but checking all available PR's, property records, and any other miscellaneous stuff I can find. My earliest ancestor apparently purchased a property in Exminster, so my next point of attack is to access those property records.
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Hi, My maiden name was Pine and my ancestors originate from Brixham Devon. My Uncle did do a family tree dating back to the 1600's and managed to find some interesting bits of information. My Father still lives in Brixham, and a cousin. If you would like to know anything please feel free to ask. (I am new at this by the way).
Jeanette
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Hello Jeanette and welcome to Rootschat. You are very fortunate to have such a head start on your family tree. Did your uncle find a connection outside of Brixham? I have had a quick look at that family group in the past, and couldn't work out where the earliest Brixham Pine/Pyne came from.
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Hello, thanks for your message.
My Uncle traced our ancestors back to 1696 starting with Thomas Pine marrying a Sarah Gamedge.
He did mention that a William Clements Pine (married Mary Gusmell from Littlehampton) settled in Hull. My uncle did also say, there was some possibility that some of our ancestors went across on the "Mayflower", there do seem to be many Pines in the USA. Being an established fishing port, Brixham men would venture far and wide sometimes to seek their fortune elsewhere, so there is a possibility some of the Pines did settle further afield, but my Uncle has not said he knew of any definite evidence of this, but he did say we had an ancestor who owned a lighthouse in Scotland.
Our family had a fishing boat called the" Myrtle" which was bought in 1881 and I am lucky enough to have a picture of it.
Do you know the hymn" Abide with me"? That was written by the Reverend Lyte who was the first vicar of All Saints church in Brixham in the 1800s. The church still plays the hymn on the hour. One of our ancestors, Mary Andrews Hall, was taught by the Reverend Lyte at Sunday school.
I hope you find this of some interest, I do still have some snippets of information, but did not want to ramble on too much. Unfortunately my Uncle died 3 years ago, but my Father is still around and probably can remember some other bits.
Best Wishes, Jeanette
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That's where I got to as well. Thomas Pine married Sarah Gamedge, but where did he come from? I don't know what records your uncle looked at, but the parish register records need to be examined, marriages and banns if they exist that early. In some instances, the original record might say "Thomas Pine of...." if he was somewhere else.
My Pine/Pyne's came from Honiton, Lympstone, and Ottery St Mary.
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Sorry, my Uncle has written that he does not know where Thomas Pine was born or anything about their lives. The next one he seemed to know more about, coming to 1805, is William Clements Pine who married Mary Gusmell. Are you related to Thomas Pine and Sarah Gamedge?
I did speak to my Father this morning who is hoping to get all his brothers information he collected from his wife later this week hopefully.
Sorry I have not been of much help.
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Hi Morkie,
I have some research on William Clements Pine born 27 Oct 1805 because he settled in Hull area where my direct Pine ancestors also lived, so I had to separate these two Pine family lines out. I believe Wiliam was son of George Pine and Eleanor Alwood. Thomas Pine (1763) was his uncle. George and Thomas' parents could be Thomas Pine (1732) and Rosamond Bastard of Brixham area. At this time my ancestors are farmers around the Tiverton area. It is interesting and frustrating to have Pine family lines tracing back to Devon (and there are some just over the border in Somerset) but not having records available to go back 2 or 3 more generations to see them all link up. Good luck to all the Pine family researchers!
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Hi
Thanks for your message. Yes all the names you mentioned are on my family tree my uncle compiled. He wrote a story out for me about both the William Clements, but how he found out I do not know. The first William Clements Pine's son, also William Clements, left Hull because his wife Mary did not like it and returned to Brixham.
It is a complicated business this family tree tracing. My Dad told me that we had a relative who was a lighthouse keeper on the Isle of Wick also a Pine, so that complicates matters.
Good luck with your research, if there is anything you would like to know I will be happy to help if I have any info that is relevant to your search.
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Hello!
My name is Jennie Pines, daughter of Philip Pines in New York (although now I currently reside in Asia). My sister and I lived tracing our family line all the way to Spain.
I thought everyone looking for more information on the Pine, Pyne, Pines family might find this interesting :
https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/UptonPyne/MTP1913