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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: 0121mariec on Monday 11 November 13 16:50 GMT (UK)
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Hi
My husband is trying to find a marriage between Frances (Fanny) Winyates and Samuel Baker. We think they got married between 1850 and 1860 around the Birmingham area. We have found them
in 1861 and 1871 censuses (listed as Balter in1861!) but no luck in finding their marriage. The birth certs of the children have their mother's maiden name as winyates. Any help would be gratefully received as we have hit the dreaded brick wall.
Regards
Marie
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When and where were they both born
When & where was their first child born
Found the 1861 entry - first child Samuel born 1853/54 Birmingham
Samuel snr b 1833 and Fanny 1836 - both Birmingham
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Hi
The census shows that Samuel was born 1831 and Fanny (frances) 1835 in Birmingham. The children were also born in Birmingham named Samuel 1855,Arthur 1857, Fanny 1860,Amelia 1863, George A 1865, and Walter W 1868
Thanks for any help
Marie
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Well, it must be after 1851, as she is 16 and with widowed father Emmanuel on 1851
HO107 2056 307 50
(Frances Whinyates)
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It looks like they didn't.
Nothing on B'ham PR's, FreeBMD or IGI.
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Hi
Am I having a senior moment but I can't find Emmanuel Whinyates in 1851! What am I doing wrong?
:( Marie
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Think it was indexed Whingates in Ancestry.
Just put on Frances bn 1836 =/- 1 year Birmingham, and look through the choice of what comes up.
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Probably nothing but I'll post it anyway
Dec 1852 marriage in Birmingham and 2 of the people on the page are Emma Whinyates and Samuel Barnett
There are 2 x 1861 entries for a Samuel & Emma Barnett neither of whom have any connection to Birmingham
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In 1851 Emmanuel is shown as female and is Emma as per a "distant relative" who has notified a transcription error. Aged ?? 36 b Staffordshire
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The 1861 has again been mis-transcribed as Whneyates and the same distant relative has notified the surname as Whinyates
All b Birmingham
Emma 49
Phillip 16
Maria 22
Florence 20
Cathleen 18
Anna 13
Clara 11
RG9 Piece 2165 Folio 32 Page 7
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A strange one
Marriage Sept 1855 Runcorn
Frances Bennett Whinyates
Samuel Pearson ( only 2 on the page)
Sue
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I had already ruled out that marriage as the 1861 has them in Cheshire - no children and Frances was in her 40's
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1841 but no Frances - Elizabeth matches her birthyear. All b Warwickshire
Joseph Whinyates 35 ?? silk/gilt toy maker
Emma 25
Joseph Jnr 11
William 10
Elizabeth 14
Mary Ann 12
Eliza 5
Maria 3
Florence 1
HO107 Piece 1149/8 Folio 13 Page 19
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Emma was a second wife as some of the 1841 childrens baptisms are on FS showing mother as Ann which would explain the ages in 1841
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NV4X-RXT
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Interesting the 1841 census. There is already an older Elizabeth in the family, surely they wouldn't call two living daughters by the same name.
Marie
You are also quick !Now I understand - second wife etc
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Ann Whinyates aged 27 spouse Joseph was buried 9.2.1834 St Paul Birmingham
so Frances must be Emma's daughter
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There is already an older Elizabeth in the family, surely they wouldn't call two living daughters by the same name.
They don't have 2 Elizabeth's - they have an Elizabeth and an Eliza
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Thank you all for your help.
Regards
Marie
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The 1852 marriage of Emma Whingates and Samuel Barnett is Emma the mother. She's a 35 yr old widow, her spouse 45 and a widower. Her maiden name looks like it might be Hines
Samuel Baker is one of the witnesses (makes his mark)
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In this family, Eliza is the correct age for Frances, however Eliza marries Henry Haines in 1854 and is with him on 1861 census (definitely the same couple - there can't be many military ornament makers called Henry Haines in the area)
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The 1852 marriage of Emma Whingates and Samuel Barnett is Emma the mother. She's a 35 yr old widow, her spouse 45 and a widower. Her maiden name looks like it might be Hines
Samuel Baker is one of the witnesses (makes his mark)
Thank you - amazing amount of info. How do you look at the marriage details on line? I am of the generation who used to go up to St catherine's house so would appreciate pointing in the right direction. Thanks Marie
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Some subscription sites like Ancestry or Find My Past have digitised sets of parish registers. Others groups like local history libraries or family histriy groups also make things available free or via membership