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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Kazbarinap on Friday 08 November 13 14:36 GMT (UK)
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Hi, I'm fairly new to researching and in all honesty at my wits end
My mums first child lived 20mins. Born 2nd June 1968 at hope hospital called Jayne Crawshaw
Back then babies were taken away and buried by hospital. I have found her registration of birth and death and that's it. My mum has never got closure and I'm
Trying to locate her list baby
Agecroft cemetery have been wonderful but found nothing. Swinton registrars have been quite unhelpful. I've contacted hope but had no reply. My leads have now stopped
I am desperate to bring a neatly 80 year old woman peace. If anyone can help or offer alternate suggestions I would be very grateful
I would imagine the baby to have been buried in an unmarked grave maybe in the coffin of an adult
Thanks
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Since the baby lived (and you've birth and death certificates to confirm this) then it wasn't a stillborn birth. The hospital was likely to have had some sort of arrangement in place for such circumstances and if anything was discussed with the parents they would probably have been so upset that the information didn't really sink in.
If the hospital can't help with suggestions (and it is so long ago that it's possible the present staff has no information) then perhaps checking with local undertakers who might have been in business during that period might give you other options to try.
I did find this bit on Hope Hospital's website which might be worth trying (not sure how you originally contacted them).
http://www.srft.nhs.uk/about-us/freedom-of-information/requesting-information/
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Welcome to Rootschat.
I wonder whether the charity SANDS may also be of help. Here's a page from their website: http://tinyurl.com/pzoevd7
Good luck in the search.
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Have you tried contacting Salford Council's cemeteries department
http://www.salford.gov.uk/cemeteries.htm
They also have a bereavement services dept who might be able to help
Unfortunately, Swinton registrars won't be able to help which is most probably why you haven't heard from them. They only deal with the registration of births, marriages, civil partnerships, and deaths but not funerals.
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The baby will have been buried in the council cemetery, either the council cemetery closest to the hospital or the one closest to your parent's home at that time.
A friend's mother lost a child in similar circumstances in the early 1960s. The hospital "dealt" with the arrangements and the parents were told to "go home and forget about it". My friend found her brother's burial plot for her mother, a few years ago. He is buried in the "paupers" area of our town cemetery, they are able to lay flowers but not erect a memorial, it has given her mother peace of mind knowing where he is.
Good luck with your search.
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Hi YO8
Thanks for your post, but your use of the word 'pauper' is a little unfortunate.
The council would refer to these areas as being 'common' graves. Most of the people in these sections had their actual funerals paid for, but could not afford the expense of the 'exclusive' rights to a burial plot the family had paid for. As these are not 'exclusive' plots and usually conatin many unrelated people, headstones generally aren't erected. Even older cemeteries have common plots that contain only the remains of babies and children.
At that time, a lot of hospitals took care of the funeral arrangements with little or no regard to the feeling of the parents. This was the morality of the time and things have, thankfully, moved on. As society has come to learn, parents need to have closure as to where children are buried, now they are allowed to spend quiet time with their deceased children and take photos of them.
It is a popular and perpetuated myth that all babies were buried in coffins of adults and that their burial records can't be found. Maybe that was the situation historically and by that I mean pre 20th century but by the late 1960's, I would be very surprised if that was ever the case. The British Undertakers Association started campaigning in 1898 for a change to the death registration of still-born children but the government took until 1927 to change the registration laws. There was strong public opposition to the burial of still-born and new-born children in strangers coffins.
It's a difficult subject to deal with, and the op has discovered that at least one of her local cemeteries has been helpful.
Dawn
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It is good to read all your letters. I am trying to trace my little brother. He was stillborn. I have the registration for him, but other than parents names there is no other information. The place he was born is not there anymore. I tried the local office in Tredegar where he was born and it costs £58 for them to search for him. Is this usual.
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I had a stillborn sister in 1945 and I wasn't born until later. I didn't find out until I was in my fifties and my Mum had no birth certificate or anything as she was so poorly after the birth and it was dealt with by my uncle. I was so pleased to be able to obtain her birth certificate after help from the registrars office in her local area. I had no luck with finding her grave but do know that all stillborn babies were buried in a common grave at the top end of the cemetery - no real trace of anything there now.
However it did give me great satisfaction to have her birth certificate to add to our family ones - it meant so much to prove her existence and to have some closure for myself.
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Thank you Gilly. I have already got his stillbirth certificate, that's really good but I am now wanting to find his place of rest.
thank you
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Hi Jane
I know the council website states that they charge for a look-up.
http://www.blaenau-gwent.gov.uk/resident/births-deaths-marriages/cemeteries/our-cemeteries/
Under the circumstances, they might be a little more sensitive to a search trying to locate the burial of a stillborn sibling.
I would send an email as requested with all the information stating you are looking for the burial of your stillborn brother with the names of your parents and the dates of the stillbirth and see if you get a response with a free look-up.
Let us know how you get on.
Dawn
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Neville Hall Hospital now covers that area, I wonder if they have the old notes
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If they survive, they may be closed under a 100 year rule.
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I wish you all the best in your search - I know how important it must be to you.
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Good Evening,
Not to step on the original post's toes, but this post has prompted me to ask about stillborn babies in the 1920s.
What would have been the 'paperwork process' regarding a stillborn during that time? Would a birth have been registered, a death? Or would it have been recorded differently somehow?
I know the baby was called Gerald Ladkin. He would have been born sometime between 1923-1926 in Birmingham. I believe he was stillborn and not an infancy death.
It would mean so much for my elderly family member to trace where he might be buried, but I'm not even sure there would be any record. (I'm very new to the family research stuff!)
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Welcome to Rootschat. :)
Stillbirth registration in England and Wales began in 1927.
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Good Evening,
Not to step on the original post's toes, but this post has prompted me to ask about stillborn babies in the 1920s.
What would have been the 'paperwork process' regarding a stillborn during that time? Would a birth have been registered, a death? Or would it have been recorded differently somehow?
Due to the baby being stillborn there would be no birth registered prior to 1927 after that date stillborn births should be registered in the stillbirth register.
Birth registers should only register the births of live births.
From 1874 all burials should have been registered, but that does not mean they were. At first (from around 1550) stillborns were registered under their parents name(s) but in the 20th century as the years went by it became more common to find stillbirths registered with a forename as well as a surname.
Examples –
1611 July 15, Elizabeth wife to Rowland Johnson ironmonger had a child still borne & bur. 15 July at her pew end.
1621 October 24, A child of Thomas Champ's still-borne
1629 June 20, Widowe Martine's child, stillborne
1684 May 13, A stillborn child of Prince George's buried in the vault. i. e. of Prince George of Denmark (see his burial 13 Nov. 1708) by the Princess, afterwards Queen Anne
In these early years church registers only named children who were baptised which meant still borns were not named.
1656/7 January 9, Walter Hall had two male children at one birth one of them still borne by Elizabeth his wife the 9th day of January the name of the one is called John
1656 January 10, Two twinne sons of Walter Hall was buridd the 10th day of Januarie one of them still borne the other his name is called John
Hospital registers tend to contain the least information, though the parents address is mentioned
01/03/1946, Jones Stillborn
01 November 1948, Jones Stillborn
I know the baby was called Gerald Ladkin. He would have been born sometime between 1923-1926 in Birmingham. I believe he was stillborn and not an infancy death.
It would mean so much for my elderly family member to trace where he might be buried, but I'm not even sure there would be any record. (I'm very new to the family research stuff!)
As your stillbirth was pre 1927 I would suggest searching the burial registers of the local parish churches, begin by searching the parish other family members were buried in.
If there was a maternity hospital in the region try the parishes around that hospital.
Cheers
Guy
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Good Evening,
Not to step on the original post's toes, but this post has prompted me to ask about stillborn babies in the 1920s.
What would have been the 'paperwork process' regarding a stillborn during that time? Would a birth have been registered, a death? Or would it have been recorded differently somehow?
Due to the baby being stillborn there would be no birth registered prior to 1927 after that date stillborn births should be registered in the stillbirth register.
Birth registers should only register the births of live births.
From 1874 all burials should have been registered, but that does not mean they were. At first (from around 1550) stillborns were registered under their parents name(s) but in the 20th century as the years went by it became more common to find stillbirths registered with a forename as well as a surname.
Examples –
1611 July 15, Elizabeth wife to Rowland Johnson ironmonger had a child still borne & bur. 15 July at her pew end.
1621 October 24, A child of Thomas Champ's still-borne
1629 June 20, Widowe Martine's child, stillborne
1684 May 13, A stillborn child of Prince George's buried in the vault. i. e. of Prince George of Denmark (see his burial 13 Nov. 1708) by the Princess, afterwards Queen Anne
In these early years church registers only named children who were baptised which meant still borns were not named.
1656/7 January 9, Walter Hall had two male children at one birth one of them still borne by Elizabeth his wife the 9th day of January the name of the one is called John
1656 January 10, Two twinne sons of Walter Hall was buridd the 10th day of Januarie one of them still borne the other his name is called John
Hospital registers tend to contain the least information, though the parents address is mentioned
01/03/1946, Jones Stillborn
01 November 1948, Jones Stillborn
I know the baby was called Gerald Ladkin. He would have been born sometime between 1923-1926 in Birmingham. I believe he was stillborn and not an infancy death.
It would mean so much for my elderly family member to trace where he might be buried, but I'm not even sure there would be any record. (I'm very new to the family research stuff!)
As your stillbirth was pre 1927 I would suggest searching the burial registers of the local parish churches, begin by searching the parish other family members were buried in.
If there was a maternity hospital in the region try the parishes around that hospital.
Cheers
Guy
Many thanks for your replies, that’s been very helpful.
The baby was born at home in the Jewellery Quarter area of Birmingham. There is a hospital very very close to the house, where the siblings were born (after the still born boy), so I would imagine the burial place would have been the same whether he was born at home or in the hospital.
I emailed the local council last night and they sent me a link to check burial records online. With no luck. 😕
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In my local village the babies born at the local hospital who did not survive were all buried in the local cemetery in specific areas but without any markers. The parish council are just arranging to have a memorial sculpture placed there to make sure they are not forgotten and give parents a place to visit. The burial records up to the 1990s show babies still being buried there.
http://www.cuckfield.gov.uk/local/burial-ground/burial-registers
Just looking at the first page of 1961 in the link above gives an idea of the number of infants who died. Seven on that page alone and looking at earlier and later dates there are hundreds more.