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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: newbiejoan on Thursday 07 November 13 15:37 GMT (UK)
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Can someone help me find parents of Philip Hill. I have him marrying Sarah Ann Barber 10th Feb 1828 at St Mary's, Manchester. I would like to extend my search but not sure what area they lived in or what employment they were in. Philip is a book-keeper, but was his father? I cannot seem to find his parents in OPC as they don't seem to live where I thought they did. Help much appreciated.
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To get things rolling:
Is this him in 1841
(born about 1806, Lancashire)
HO107/Piece: 571/ 6
All born in county
Address 20 Buxton S?, Manchester
Phillip Hill age 35 Oocc Book keeper (born about 1806, Lancashire)
Sarah Ann Hill age 30 (born about 1811)
Charlotte Hill age 9
Mary Hill age 7
Sarah Ann Hill age 5
Phillip Hill Junr age 2
Milly
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Yes Milly that's him. Philip who married Sarah Ann committed a murder and it almost seems the family airbrushed that branch out. I do find it all very absorbing if frustrating at times so thank you for your reply
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Is Sarah the one seen in 1851 and 1861 with the children but not with Philip? I did wonder where he was!
I was going to say do you know where he died and where he is buried as that may offer some clues if he was in a family plot - but from what you say it seems unlikely that he would be buried with family.
Was he tried and sentenced, went to jail or what? I wonder if there are perhaps any newspaper reports which might shed light on his past.
Milly
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Thanks Milly, No trial, he shot himself. It's his mother and father I want to find. They probably moved from the area or had already died, it's such a common name there are thousands of them, I'm just not sure where to look, any help appreciated anyway
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I wonder if he is the Same Philip Hill I found on A* - England and Wales Criminal Registers 1791-1892
County Sessions Salford - 13th April 1840
Philip Hill age 35 sentenced to 2 months for Larceny.
Any idea what year he died?
Suey
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Could you try looking at all the other Philip Hills in Manchester area in 1841?
There are not many, and perhaps one of them could give you a lead. Father/uncle/brother/nephew etc.
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Hi,
Have been following this thread & am a little confused! Not difficult, unfortunately! ;D
I apologise now if what I am about to type is wrong but.......?
The only murder that I can find any detail about concerning a Phillip Hill on the British Newspaper Archive is that of a Phillip Hill aged either 50 or 53 employed by a Mill Owner & reported in both the Burnley Express & The Huddersfield Chronicle in April 1891.
The age of the Phillip Hill in these articles is a match for Phillip Hill Jnr (age 2 in 1841). Therefore is it Phillip Snr or Phillip Jnr who committed the murder?
Apologies again if I am barking up the wrong tree!
Kind regards
David
Edited: Ooops, Sorry got month wrong should have put April & not November! Sorry about that, corrected now! :-[
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I agree with David - another report in the Lancaster Gazette headed Murder and Suicide at Tyldesley - dated 11th April 1891
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Thank you David I too became confused as it seemed it was the Philip who married Sarah Ann as the newspaper article said he left a widow, and I had never found any record of Philip junior being married. Was it Charlotte's (my gg-grandmother) father or uncle and did they originate in Manchester and stay there or did the whole family move, think I will have to have a seance to get anywhere with the Philips
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Philip junior left a will:
HILL, Philip. 8 June 1891. The will of Philip Hill late of Tyldesley in the county of Lancaster cashier who died 8 April 1891 at Tyldesley was proved at Liverpool by Sarah Ann Wood and Elizabeth Jervis both of Tyldesley widows the sisters and the Reverend Francis Philip Sandford of Walsall in the county of Stafford clerk the Executors.
Personal estate £2,097 9s.
Resworn May 1892 £2,396 11s.
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Many thanks to you all who took time and effort re my queries. Think I will leave the Philip Hill conundrum for now and check OPC again armed with new info. Again thank you
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Hi newbiejoan,
Your welcome, this looks like Phillip Hill Jnr's death index record on freebmd:
Hill, Phillip; Age 52; June Qtr 1891; Leigh: Volume 8c Page 230
Leigh registration district covers the Tyldesley area. Apologies if you already have this.
Kind regards
David
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Avm 228 Where did my inheritance go! Thanks for the info never thought to check any wills, wonder if there is any undisclosed fortune anywhere for me. Thanks again
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Avm 228 Where did my inheritance go! Thanks for the info never thought to check any wills, wonder if there is any undisclosed fortune anywhere for me. Thanks again
:D
As to his supposed widow - he had his sister Sarah Ann Wood in his household in the 1891 census (5 April 1891 - just days before the unhappy events of 8 April) and she told his inquest that she was his housekeeper. Perhaps someone got the wrong end of the stick and thought they were husband and wife?
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Hi newbiejoan,
Here is Phillip Hill in 1871 on familysearch, here is a link to it:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XQXN-B49
Notice his occupation - Book Keeper in a Cotton Mill! Also one of the sisters mentioned in the will is living with her husband at Phillip's address.
Kind regards
David
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Philip senior is intriguing as he seems to have vanished from the face of the Earth after the 1841 census. He and Sarah Ann were fertile in the 1830s but their last child baptised was Philip in 1839.
Sarah Ann is enumerated as married in 1851 and 1861 but one has to wonder whether her husband was really still in the picture?
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Hi newbiejoan,
These are the baptisms of Phillip Hill Snr & Sarah Ann's children:
From familysearch:
Elizabeth Hill baptised 9th May 1830 (Parents Phillip Hill & Sarah)
Charlotte Hill baptised 2nd October 1831
Mary Hill baptised 17th February 1834
Sarah Ann Hill baptised 21st August 1836
Phillip Hill baptised 10th April 1839
all baptised in Manchester & variously described as parish church, collegiate church or the cathedral, all I suspect the same place.
Also on familysearch:
Martha Hill baptised 4th March 1844, St Andrew's, Manchester/Ancoats - shown as both.
On Lancashire Parish Clerk website is the following entry:
St Andrew's, Ancoats
4th March 1844
Martha Hill [Child] of Phillip Hill & Sarah Ann
Abode: Ancoats
Occupation: Book Keeper
Notes: P
Baptised by: J. S. Cranmer
Register: Baptisms 1831 - 1848, Page 119, Entry 949
Source: LDS Film 559149
This therefore looks like they had 6 children & Phillip Snr was at least about until 1844. Unfortunately I do not know what the P in the notes means. Anyone?
Hope this helps.
Kind regards
David
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Ah yes - I hadn't spotted Martha.
"P" is likely to mean she was privately baptised.
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If that 1840 larceny conviction WAS Philip Hill senior perhaps he got himself in trouble again and that is why he is not around with his family in later census. Might be worth a search of local papers to see if anything turns up. Also he may be with extended family in later census.
If the murder and suicide was Philip Junior not Philip Senior that still leaves Phillip Senior's death unaccounted for - and his burial. Finding this would be useful. there may be clues about extended family on the death certificate or burial plot.
Still lots of avenues to explore. Philip was not too common a name at that time which could help.
Milly