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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Northamptonshire => England => Northamptonshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Bob2000 on Sunday 03 November 13 21:47 GMT (UK)
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Joseph Yeomans
Baptised: 8 Jul 1827, Desborough, Northamptonshire
Parents: John and Elizabeth Yeomans
Please may I ask if there is any information on the date of birth in the register? (I'm hoping for abt 1812)
I am trying to establish whether this is the same Joseph Yeomans who married Ann Tebbutt on 26 Oct 1835 at St Faith's Church, Newton-in-the-Willows, Northamptonshire.
Thanks in advance.
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Hi
Can't help with the baptism but have you seen this, is this your man ?
http://www.afamilystory.co.uk/desborough/desborough-family-desc-det.aspx?iid=676
claire
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Hi
Can't help with the baptism but have you seen this, is this your man ?
http://www.afamilystory.co.uk/desborough/desborough-family-desc-det.aspx?iid=676
claire
It is my man, Claire, thank you. The trouble is that I can't find a Joseph Yeomans who was baptised around 1812, so I don't know who his parents were.
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The trouble is that I can't find a Joseph Yeomans who was baptised around 1812, so I don't know who his parents were.
On 8 July 1827, John & Elizabeth Yeomans had three children baptised: Joseph, Ann and Martha. Unfortunately the girls died before the 1841 census so I can't use that to establish that their ages at the time of the baptism either.
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Northamptonshire Baptisms Index shows Martha as 13 years but no ages for Ann of Joseph.
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Northamptonshire Baptisms Index shows Martha as 13 years but no ages for Ann of Joseph.
Thank you.
That's encouraging - it puts Martha's birth year as 1813/1814. So a birth year of 1812 for Joseph looks possible.
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That's encouraging - it puts Martha's birth year as 1813/1814.
There are two possible burials listed in the IGI
Martha Yeomons burial: 13 January 1831 in Desborough, Northampton, England
Martha Yeomans burial: 24 September 1837 in Desborough, Northampton, England
Does either of those have an age of death that indicates a birth year of 1813 or 1814, please?
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Hi.
Welcome to Rootschat Bob2000. :)
I am afraid that I am one of the endless folk related (although distantly) to the
Yeoman's of Desborough, Coe's and Marlow's.
The Joseph who married in Newton was from Rothwell (at time of Marriage)
only a mile down the road.
I could look at the original marriage certificate later in week if no helps beforehand
to see if there are any clues.
You say that Ann and Martha have died before the 1841 census, I can certainly see
a burial for girls with that name being buried there, as over 18, yet the only John and
Elizabeth on the N.M.I. is for a John Yeomans to an Elizabeth Moore in 1802.
Therefore could you confirm for us where you found the details of the children dying please.
Sandy
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I posted and then looked at your latest request Bob. :)
I will have a look at my headstones and see if I can see them as we cannot
quote from the National Burial Index due to Copyright on Rootschat.
I could look at the original burial register to see what is noted unless Marilyn
notes from the new Northants Burial Index.
Sandy
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I can not seem to find any headstones for the 2 women :(.
None would be in the original place as they are in rows nowadays.
I will list from the Northants Baptism Indexes the children prior to the 3 you
mentioned.
Then I think we will see it is possible to have John and Elizabeth as their parents.
Sandy
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Okay three earlier children, 2 match to the 1841 census.
Samuel 01 Apr 1804, Hannah and Ruth are baptised 19 Jun 1808
also Mary 24 Sep 1821.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0wqp/
So it is totally possible the other 3 children Joseph, Ann and Martha are also
belonging to them.
Sandy
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Okay three earlier children, 2 match to the 1841 census.
Samuel 01 Apr 1804, Hannah and Ruth are baptised 19 Jun 1808
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0wqp/
So it is totally possible the other 3 children Joseph, Ann and Martha are also
belonging to them.
Sandy
Thanks for all your hard work on my behalf, seahall. Much appreciated.
Your conclusion is the one that I arrived at: Joseph, Ann and Martha are likely to be the children of John Yeomans and Elizabeth Moore who married on 25-12-1802.
Quite a few other Yeomans historians have recorded this as 'fact'. For example
http://yeomans.info/26501.html
Perhaps they have seen information that changes the parentage of Joseph, Ann & Martha from likely to probable. I was just hoping to find out what those pieces of information were. :)
Actually, I naively assumed that Ann & Martha died because I couldn't find them in the 1841 census. Of course, they could have married and moved away. I will look into this possibility.
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Hi again Bob.
Well if we add up the children it made 7 and Mr. Yeomans
says 6. :)
The thing that threw me was a person of Independent Means, Retired Farmer,
was a Labouer at the time of the children's baptism.
I found some graves but we can not put them on the Look up Boards.
P.M. me if you are interested.
Sandy
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Well if we add up the children it made 7 and Mr. Yeomans
says 6. :)
That's interesting, was that on the 1827 baptism record?
I have the following as possible children of John Yeomans & Elizabeth Moore
Samuel Yeomans 1803 – 1881
Ruth Yeomans 1808 – 1881
Ann Yeomans 1810? – 1835?
Joseph Yeomans 1812 – 1895
Martha Yeomans 1814 – ?
William Yeomans 1818 – 1818
Mary Yeomans 1821 – 1890
William had died at the time of Joseph/Ann/Martha's baptism in 1827. Is 6 the number of living children?
The thing that threw me was a person of Independent Means, Retired Farmer, was a Labouer at the time of the children's baptism.
I didn't know that. Yes, I agree, it doesn't seem quite right.
I found some graves but we can not put them on the Look up Boards.
P.M. me if you are interested.
Sandy
Thank you, will do.
Here's my reply to your earlier questions:
The Joseph who married in Newton was from Rothwell (at time of Marriage)
only a mile down the road.
I could look at the original marriage certificate later in week if no helps beforehand
to see if there are any clues.
That's most kind of you. I have made a note that the marriage witnesses were William Thompson & Lucy Tebbutt but I didn't note the source of this information (doh!)
I have speculated that Lucy Tebbutt was the daughter (born 29 Nov 1805) of Thomas & Martha Tebbutt. I don't think that the bride Ann was Lucy's sister. I would be interested to know if Lucy's signature looks like an old lady's handwriting!
You say that Ann and Martha have died before the 1841 census, I can certainly see
a burial for girls with that name being buried there, as over 18, yet the only John and
Elizabeth on the N.M.I. is for a John Yeomans to an Elizabeth Moore in 1802.
Therefore could you confirm for us where you found the details of the children dying please.
I use a combination on An****** and Fam***search.org (can we write corporate website names on RootsChat?) to source my information. The first site isn't too good for pre-1837 stuff and the second site is free but you can't guarantee the accuracy or completeness.
Other public family trees on An****** indicate that the girls died before 1841 (with a variety of burial years). I just followed the crowd... Now I realise that this was a mistake :(
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Hi again.
Now I am at it. ::)
Looks like there was 8 children.
Samuel, Ruth, Hannah, Ann, Joseph, Martha, William, Mary.
Mr Yeomans on his link http://yeomans.info/26501.html does not list
William or Mary.
Sandy
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The Lucy Tebbutt on the marriage between Joseph and Ann might be a clue.
There is no baptism on the N.B.I. that I can see for Ann.
Lucy marries John Goodman a widower from Rockingham and is with him in
1841 aged 35 which would be correct with a birth date of 1805 although
not baptised until 1810.
Therefore we need to look and see whether as you suggest, one Lucy signs her mark
then we not know for sure, or if she signs, if the signature is similar to a possible
marriage one.
Sandy
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The Lucy Tebbutt on the marriage between Joseph and Ann might be a clue.
There is no baptism on the N.B.I. that I can see for Ann.
Lucy marries John Goodman a widower from Rockingham and is with him in
1841 aged 35 which would be correct with a birth date of 1805 although
not baptised until 1810.
Therefore we need to look and see whether as you suggest, one Lucy signs her mark
then we not know for sure, or if she signs, if the signature is similar to a possible
marriage one.
Sandy
Thanks very much seahall. More great information.
In the meantime, I will carry out some more detective work on the other marriage witness: William Thompson.
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[There are two possible burials listed in the IGI
Martha Yeomons burial: 13 January 1831 in Desborough, Northampton, England
Martha Yeomans burial: 24 September 1837 in Desborough, Northampton, England
Does either of those have an age of death that indicates a birth year of 1813 or 1814, please?
[/quote]
Only one burial in Desborough for a Martha
Martha YEOMANS of Little Bowden 1831 13-Jan at Desborough age 18
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Only one burial in Desborough for a Martha
Martha YEOMANS of Little Bowden 1831 13-Jan at Desborough age 18
Thank you for that, mgeneas. It might be the same Martha.
I looked up Little Bowden and found it in Market Harborough about 5 miles north-west of Desborough.
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Hi
I have looked at the original registers for Desborough and can confirm that all the children
have their age and are as we presumed of the correct age for the dates you are looking for.
Looked at Ann and Lucy Tebbutt's marriage's and it does appear that they are sisters.
Also looked at the 2 burials for Martha, one is actually for Matilda will list later.
Checked the marriage details of Joseph and Ann marriage will also list later.
I will be home late evening so hopefully some of the questions can be answered
for you Bob.
Sandy
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I have looked at the original registers for Desborough and can confirm that all the children
have their age and are as we presumed of the correct age for the dates you are looking for.
Thanks ever so much, seahall. Was that baptism registers? or burial registers? or both?!!!! :)
Is it true that the following birth years are correct?...
Samuel Yeomans 1803 – 1881
Ruth Yeomans 1808 – 1881
Hannah ? - ?
Ann Yeomans 1810? – 1835?
Joseph Yeomans 1812 – 1895
Martha Yeomans 1814 – ?
William Yeomans 1818 – 1818
Mary Yeomans 1821 – 1890
Looked at Ann and Lucy Tebbutt's marriage's and it does appear that they are sisters.
Wow, fantastic, that's major discovery... Please may I ask how you deduced that, seahall?
Also looked at the 2 burials for Martha, one is actually for Matilda will list later.
Checked the marriage details of Joseph and Ann marriage will also list later.
I will be home late evening so hopefully some of the questions can be answered
for you Bob.
Sandy
Thanks for all your help, seahall. You're a star!
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Okay here is the good news.
Desborough Parish Church Baptisms
Pg. 47, No. 376
July 8th 1827
(In left hand column Aged 13 Years) Martha Daughter of John & Elizabeth Yeomans
Desboro', Labourer
Pg. 48, No. 377
July 8th 1827
Joseph Son of John & Elizabeth Yeomans, Desboro', Labourer
(In right hand column Aged 14 years)
Pg. 48, No. 378
Juy 8th 1827
Ann Daughter of John & Elizabeth Yeomans, Desboro'
(In right hand column Aged 17 years)
Sandy
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Hang on Bob, :) I will list what I found and then try and answer
the dates you note if that is okay.
Rootschat is full of stars. :)
Sandy
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Okay details of the marriage for Joseph and Ann at Newton-le-Willows P.C.
Pg. 7, No. 19
Joseph Yeomans, otp of Rothwell to
Ann Tebbutt, otp were married by Banns
twenty sixth October 1835
Joseph signed his name, Ann her mark.
Witnesses: William Thompson and Lucy Tebbutt who also signed their marks.
Sandy
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The link to Lucy is that when she married at Newton she signed her mark
so we could not confim by a signature, yet one of the witnesses was Ann YEOMANS
who also signed her mark.
As Lucy noted her father as Thomas a brickmaker I think unless proved
otherwise this would make them sisters.
The parish records of baptisms for Newton at the time period are not at all clear
so I will hopefully re-check them to see if we can find Ann's baptism.
Sandy
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Desborough Parish Church Burials
Pg. 46, No.367
Martha Yeomans, Little Bowden, Jan 13 1831, 13
Pg. 66, No.527
Matilda Yeomans, Desborough, September 24th 1837, 1
I have finished for now.
Sandy
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Seahall has added some terrific information to this thread. If I can add to it in the coming couple of weeks I will so that it will be of benefit to others with Yeomans family members.
The parish records of baptisms for Newton at the time period are not at all clear
so I will hopefully re-check them to see if we can find Ann's baptism.
Sent a pm to you, seahall. You gave me a name to contact about Ann's baptism and I received a reply.
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Morning/Afternoon Bob.
I am sitting here looking at the awful images for the baptisms at Newton
in 1810 to1812.
Thomas and Martha baptise 2 children in 1810, William, Lucy, and earlier
children, yet I can not see a marriage for them.
This baptism and burial is one to keep in mind.
Newton-Le-Wilows P.C. Baptism
Pg. 6, No. 48
August 26 1832
Ann, Dr. of Lucy Tebbutt, Newton, single woman
Newton-Le-Willows P.C. Burial
Pg. 5, No. 37
Ann Tebbutt, Newton, Sepr 3 1832, infant
Sandy
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Here are the details for Lucy's marriage.
Newton-Le-Willows P.C. By Banns
Pg. 1, No. 2
Joseph Goodman, full age, Widower, Shepherd, Rockingham, father Joseph, Labourer
Lucy Tebbutt, full age, Spinster, father Thomas, Brick Maker
Joseph signed as Jos Goodman, Lucy signed her mark.
Witnesses: Ann Yeomans signed her mark, and Wm Turner
Therefore has Lucy's had a child out of wedlock which may have been recorded
in the Northampton Mercury Sessions.
Sandy
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Also has Thomas a settlement paper that survives if he came into the Parish
with Martha and the children in the late 1700's.
They both die in the village Thomas in 1821 and Martha in 1853.
Newton-Le-Willows Burial
Pg. 3, No. 22
Thomas Tebbatt, Newton, August 1st 1821, 52
Newton-Le-Willows Burial
Pg. 12, No. 96
Martha Tebbut, Newton, May 4th 1854, 89
Sandy
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The only possible marriage in the County on the N.M.I. is as below.
Wellingborough
17-Nov 1794 Thomas TEBBET otp Martha HARRISON otp
Thomas and Martha baptise their 1st child Elizabeth in 1796 in Newton.
Maybe the marriage may give some clues.
Sandy
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The only possible marriage in the County on the N.M.I. is as below.
Wellingborough
17-Nov 1794 Thomas TEBBET otp Martha HARRISON otp
Thomas and Martha baptise their 1st child Elizabeth in 1796 in Newton.
Maybe the marriage may give some clues.
Sandy
Evening seahall. I've greedily read the information that you posted. Thank you.
I looked up Martha in the census and had a thought about her occupation listed as "baker's widow" in the 1851 census. It could refer to baker of bricks no? That would tally with Thomas's occupation as brick maker on Lucy's marriage certificate.
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Also has Thomas a settlement paper that survives if he came into the Parish
with Martha and the children in the late 1700's.
They both die in the village Thomas in 1821 and Martha in 1853.
Newton-Le-Willows Burial
Pg. 3, No. 22
Thomas Tebbatt, Newton, August 1st 1821, 52
Newton-Le-Willows Burial
Pg. 12, No. 96
Martha Tebbut, Newton, May 4th 1854, 89
Sandy
That would put Thomas's birth year as 1769.
According to FreeGEN, there is a Thomas Tebbot baptised 27 Sep 1769 at Ringstead. His parents were George and Mary.
George and Mary didn't have any other children baptised in Ringstead. The only other children born to a George and Mary Tebbutt at that time was from 1771 onwards at...Newton-in-the-Willows (6 children)
It doesn't instantly open any doors but still it's another thread. Thomas and Martha named one of their sons George - after grandad perhaps?
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Hi Bob.
It is morning again. :)
Maybe you could ring the Northamptonshire Record Office and find out if they
have any surviving settlement or examination papers for Newton at all then clarify
if George or Thomas settled there.
People moved around much more than some think especially in our County which
had a couple of Churches that were like mini Gretna Greens. :)
It was suprising what a Vicar would do for a backhander, not that I was alive then ::)
so only supposition.
Otherwise we could just be pulling folk from round about, although your theory
could obviously be correct.
I am not convinced that the 1851 census has a P.O.B. of Broughton for Martha Tebbutt,
as it seems to be noted.
There is a baptism for a Martha Harrison on the N.B.I. in Brington which
is more like the spelling of the place.
I am still trying to work out who the child aged 15 named Ann is as it seems
as though a few of Thomas and Martha's children died before marrying.
Please feel free to correct me if you disagree with anything I say on the topic.
Sandy
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Hi.
I might take a car ride over to Newton today if Hubby is agreeable. ;D
Blow away the cobwebs and maybe help into the bargain.
Sandy
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Well I went, I saw, I conquered Newton-le-Willows. :) Just arrived home.
It is a small hamlet of about 10 houses and a Church you can only get to
by walking down a bridle way, now turned into a Field Centre.
I have been to many Churchyards in Northants, but never one so over grown.
I managed to take some graves, others were impossible and I am covered
in stinging nettle bites all over my legs, no dock leaves in sight. LOL.
Anyway if I find any inscription's that may of help I will list when I have sorted
out the images Bob.
Sandy
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Well I went, I saw, I conquered Newton-le-Willows. :) Just arrived home.
It is a small hamlet of about 10 houses and a Church you can only get to
by walking down a bridle way, now turned into a Field Centre.
I have been to many Churchyards in Northants, but never one so over grown.
I managed to take some graves, others were impossible and I am covered
in stinging nettle bites all over my legs, no dock leaves in sight. LOL.
Anyway if I find any inscription's that may of help I will list when I have sorted
out the images Bob.
Sandy
seahall, what a crusade!!! :o
How grateful I am for giving up your time. I hope that the weather stayed fine. Thank you so much!
I think you're right that the 1851 census for Martha Tebbutt could have a P.O.B. of Brington. (it looks like Br?ghton) Very astute of you to tie that in with the Martha who married Thomas Tebbett in Wellingborough on 17 Nov 1794.
I'm not familiar with settlement papers but this would be a good point for me to learn about them. I'm away this weekend for the mother-in-law's birthday celebration so will call the records office next week.
Hope that the nettle rash disappears quickly. I'm feeling guilty about it. The village sounds a mysterious place. The 1951 census of Geddington and Newton combined shows about 20 houses so it hasn't expanded much over the years. Wonder what happened.
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Morning Bob.
It was a nice day out thanks. :)
Here is some information about Settlement Papers etc by the N.R.O.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0qnr/
Also one about Newton which was a Hamlet, therefore the small size of it.
http://www.newtonrebels.org.uk/rebels/history.htm
Sandy