RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: flownthenest on Sunday 03 November 13 03:27 GMT (UK)
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Hi everyone. It's the first time I've visited Rootschat for some time. Could someone please help us find evidence of Thomas William Welsh (b. 1865 Northern Ireland) emigrating to Victoria, Australia, and/or evidence of occupation or place of residence in Geelong, Victoria, Australia. His wife, Isabella Allan Welsh, and children William Bruce (b. Peshawar, India 1895), Robert Allan (b. 1905 Ayr, Scotland), May Motgomery (b. 1908 Ayr, Scotland), John Moore (b.1913 Whitletts, Ayr, Scotland) and Elizabeth Montgomery Welsh, (b. unknown) all came to Australia at various times, although we can find no record of Thomas, May or Elizabeth's arrivals. We believe that Thomas William Welsh may have been in the military, partly because William Bruce Welsh was born in Peshawar, India. We can find no evidence of Thomas William's miltary service record, although William Bruce Welsh's military serivce record exists on the National Archives of Australia. The Welsh family can be found on the 1901 census, living in Midlothian, and Isabella (Rollo/Rolley) can be found on the 1891 census, working as a domestic servant in the home of Henry James Montgomery, who lived at Chesnut Square, Wellesbourne, Warwickshire. Isabella came to Australia with her son, John Moore Welsh (aged 14) in 1927, and Robert Allan Welsh came to Australia in 1929. William Bruce Welsh came to Australia in 1913.
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This enquiry would be better placed on the Australia board, where folks with access to local resources would see it.
What BDM Australia documents do you have please.
Electoral Roll 1949 and 1954
Isabella Allan WELSH at Woolloomanatta Lara Lake Victoria
1925
Elizabeth Montgomery WELSH
Margaret Allan WELSH nurses, Mental Hospital, Goodna, QLD
Who is Margaret Allan WELSH...another daughter?
Do you have death certificate for Isabella, which should list her children.
There is a ten year gap between first (1895) and second (1905) child that you list. Maybe some missing births to find?
When the children of Thomas and Isabella married (in Victoria?) certificate would give father's occupation.
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This is my third attempt at a reply as when I'm halfway through writing my reply, it disappears and I have to start again. Thanks for the advice re posting on a Oz board. It's been a long time since I've posted anything so have to find my way around again. Yes, we knew that Isabella spent the latter years of her life at Lara. As for Thomas, we believe he is buried in the East Geelong cemetery, albeit in the C of E section, compared to Isabella being in the Presbyterian part. We have yet to visit their graves. As for Oz BMD certs. we have hubby's parents marriage cert., (Coburg 1941) which states that Thomas is deceased, his former occupation listed as 'Inventor.' In 1901 census he is listed as an electrician. Margaret Allan is listed as Maggie A, the eldest on the 1901 census, aged seven. Thanks for the info re May and Margaret being nurses in Queensland. First we've heard of it. We have John Moore's death cert. (Coburg 1955), and have found many of his criminal activities on the nla site after hubby's family split in 1948. We do not have a death certificate for Isabella. Thanks for all your help. Flownthenest
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Help would be appreciated looking Thomas William Welsh. The Welsh family (or part of it) came to Australia in dribs and drabs, William Bruce Welsh in 1913, Isabella Allan Welsh and her son John Moore in 1927 (Isabella's age, 57, occupation 'Grocer'), and Robert Allan Welsh, another son, in 1929. Other children came to Australia at times unknown, May Montgomery Welsh, and Elizabeth Montgomery Welsh, also Margaret A. Welsh. We believe there were ten children in all, some of them feature on the 1901 census in Midlothian, where Thomas is listed as an electrician. We have an aussie marriage certificate for John Moore Welsh (Coburg 1941), and his death cert. (Coburg 1955). On this marriage certificate, Thomas Welsh is listed as deceased, as his occupation recorded as 'Inventor.' Isabella Allan Welsh died in 1954 and is buried in the East Geelong cemetery. There is also a Thomas Welsh buried there (d. 1935) although we have yet to visit the graves. We can find no record of Thomas William Welsh coming to Australia, or of his residence in this country.
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Here is a link to your earlier post on emigration board to save duplicating the research :)
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=666810.new#new
cheers,
Ros
:)
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From your other thread--
Here is an obit to the Thomas Welsh of Aberdeen st who died in July http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article32172064
Cobden and district will regret to hear of the death of Mr. Thomas
Welsh, at Aberdeen street. Geeiong West, on Thursday, July 11. Mr.
Welsh was manager of the National Bank, Cobden, about twelve years
ago. He was 74 years of age. and leaves a wife and two daughters
(Nancy and Phyllis).
regards,
Ros
Not sure he fits the profile of our Thomas William Welsh then. Our Thomas was listed as an electrician on the 1901 census in Midlothian. He sure is elusive! Hardly think he'd been the manager of a woollen mill either. But thanks anyway, we'll keep looking.
From your Original Post this thread-
There is also a Thomas Welsh buried there (d. 1935) although we have yet to visit the graves.[/i]
It is clear neither of these is the correct man so I do not think visiting the graves will be of assistance.
What makes you think he ever left Scotland?
Sue
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William WELSH's attestion papers dated 26 Feb 1915 list his mother as NOK. This suggests his father was deceased by this date.
http://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/NAAMedia/ShowImage.asp?B=8381251&S=1&T=R
Letter advising Army of correct place of birth
http://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/NAAMedia/ShowImage.asp?B=8381251&S=13&T=R
Have you searched the 1911 Scottish Census for this family?
Cando
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Would you please detail Thomas William WELSH's year of birth and his parents' names please.
Cando
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Is this the family to which you are referring on the 1901 Scottish Census?
1901 Scottish Census Inveresk 13/15/1
Living at 33 Forth View, Inveresk, Midlothian
WELSH Thomas Head 33 years Electrician Born Ireland
WELSH Isabella A R Wife 31 years Born Dundonald, Ayrshire
WELSH Maggie A Dau 7 years Scholar Born Dundonald, Ayrshire
WELSH William F Son 5 years Scholar Born Dondonald, Ayrshire
WELSH Annie I D Dau 3 years Born Dondonald, Ayrshire
WELSH Helen Dau 2 years Born Dondonald, Ayrshire
WELSH Isabella A Dau 1 year Born Dondonald, Ayrshire
Cando
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Yes, that is the census we found a while ago. We have yet to learn what happened to Helen. On emigating, Isabella gave her address at 21 Main Road, Whitletts, Ayr, Scotland. Also, we have yet to learn how William Bruce happened to be born at Peshawar, India, instead of Ayr, as he thought. In his service record (Australia National Archive) there is a letter from William, stating that he'd always thought he'd been born in Ayr, Scotland, but he'd since learned that he was actually born in Peshawar, India. Thank you for your help. flownthenest
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There is a marriage on ScotlandsPeople for a Thomas WELSH and Isabella ROLLEY in 1893. I do not have any credits to look at the record.
The entry for their son William is not William B but William F
I find it strange that Thomas would give the enumerator information to be so inaccurate.
Have you searched for the births of their children on ScotlandsPeople?
Once again...
Have you searched the 1911 Scottish Census for this family?
There is no need to repeat information which is already on the thread eg the links were given to Wm's attestion papers on a previous post.
Cando
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There is a death for a Thomas WELSH born 1868 in 1902 in Midlothian on ScotslandsPeoples. I suggest you purchase this record to establish if it is your person of interest.
Cando
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I have asked the moderators to merge these threads. Confusing to have threads running about the same person. Topics Merged
Cando
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Thanks Cando, I was about to suggest a merging :) as I was getting so confused, and I am still not sure who actually arrived and who did not.
Cheers, JM
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The death of a daughter shown on the census per Cando
CHEAL Annie Jane Dunba
Father Welsh Thomas
Mother Isabella
Death Place GEEL
Age 83
Year 1981
Reg Number 17418
Sue
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There is a marriage on ScotlandsPeople for a Thomas WELSH and Isabella ROLLEY in 1893. I do not have any credits to look at the record.
The entry for their son William is not William B but William F
I find it strange that Thomas would give the enumerator information to be so inaccurate.
Cando
Death
WELSH William Bruce
Father Thomas
Mother Isabella ROLLO
Death Place MELB
Age 64
Year 1959
Reg Number 4146
This announcement has been given by Ros (somewhere ???)
WELSH-D'ARCY. - On the 24th June, at All Saints' Church, East St. Kilda, by Rev. Jones, William Bruce, eldest son of Mrs T. Welsh of Ayr, Scotland, to Adelaide Frances, eldest daughter of late Tom D'Arcy and Mrs D'Arcy, Commercial road, South Yarra. (Interstate papers please copy)
Electoral Roll 1931
Address- 15 Toolangi Rd Alphington (EDIT to add suburb accidentally omitted)
WELSH, William James B Sales
WELSH Adelaide Frances HD
They do not appear together on the rolls after this.
William becomes hard to track as the occupations for men of the name (who may or may not be him) are inconsistent ranging from mechanic to nil and at various addresses.
Death
WELSH Adelaide Frances
Father Darcy Thomas
Mother Marianne Maude PERRY
Death Place CHEL
Age 66
Year 1959
Reg Number 14488
The letter in his file dated 1936 (or 38) seems to say he is planning to leave for Europe. Wonder why it was important to establish a birthplace of India right there and then.
The letter is written in an educated hand and the wording is also well managed.
The second given name BRUCE only appears in the letter, not on the attestation documents.
Sue
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Hi All,
Taking advice of more experience members, we bought credits on Scotland's people and have found the wedding certificate of Thomas and Isabella. They married in 1893 at Ayr, and we also obtained the 1911 census that shows them living at Ayr with their eight children. They did, of course, go on to have more children. We wish we'd bought credits years ago. Thanks to you all for your help. We are now looking forward to finding out more, now that we know the names of Thomas's parents (Richard Welsh and Anne Jane Dunbar). We found on 'Mapping our Anzacs' that there were only three recorded births at Peshawar, India and that William Bruce Welsh was one of them. Now we will try to find out how Isabella and Thomas have contacts with India.
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Hi All,
Taking advice of more experience members, we bought credits on Scotland's people and have found the wedding certificate of Thomas and Isabella. They married in 1893 at Ayr, and we also obtained the 1911 census that shows them living at Ayr with their eight children. They did, of course, go on to have more children. We wish we'd bought credits years ago. Thanks to you all for your help. We are now looking forward to finding out more, now that we know the names of Thomas's parents (Richard Welsh and Anne Jane Dunbar). We found on 'Mapping our Anzacs' that there were only three recorded births at Peshawar, India and that William Bruce Welsh was one of them. Now we will try to find out how Isabella and Thomas have contacts with India.
The only reason the "Mapping our Anzacs" site (whose records, by the way, come from the National Archives of Australia and you have the information from said Archives) show the birth of William(James? ) Bruce WELSH as India, not Scotland is because he wrote the letter requesting the change in his place of birth on the records.
To date there is no evidence that this was true. No birth certificate was required by the forces.
Sue
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They married in 1893 at Ayr, and we also obtained the 1911 census that shows them living at Ayr with their eight children.
Information by pm that three children were noted on the 1911 census as born in Ayrshire and the rest recorded as the school district of St Quivon, which is in Ayreshire also.
I would suggest the name is St Quivox, Ayrshire
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/sct/AYR/StQuivox/
http://www.genuki.org.uk/cgi-bin/maplink?GR=NS375240,CCC=AYR,PLACE=St%20Quivox
https://familysearch.org/learn/wiki/en/St._Quivox,_Ayr,_Scotland
Thomas pob Maybole, Ayrshire in 1911 however in 1901 it was Ireland.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maybole
http://www.south-ayrshire.gov.uk/about/maybole/
I find it quite odd that Thomas as head of the house, would give incorrect information on two census ie in 1901 and 1911.
Perhaps a look at the 1901 census may reveal more accurate information than has been transrcibed to Ancestry.com
Cando
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1911 Census for St. Quivox, drainage district of Whitletts, Ayr
4 Blackhouse Crescent
Thomas Welsh Head 42 Coal miner cuttingmachineman worker pob Maybole
Isabella Wife 40 Dundonald
William J(?) Son 16 Coal miner cuttingmachineman Ayr
Ann Jane D 13 Scholar do
Helen D 12 do do
Isabella D 11 do St. Quivox
Elizabeth D 9 do do
Thomas Son 7 do do
Robert Son 5 do do
May D 2 do
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Hi all,
Found Thomas Welsh's death in Ayr, 1813, the same year hubby's father was born. He was a dock worker, although no cause of death given. Isabella must have been pregnant at the time. Also his birth (only one that fits the date) to Isabella Welsh (?) Maybole, 1868, illegitimate, with no father named. Can't tie this in with his death cert. which names his father as Richard Montgomery Welsh, and mother Ann Jane, formerly Dunbar. Same named parents as on his marriage cert. Can only find one Isabella Welsh in 1871 working at 238 High St, Ayr, for Andrew Glass and his wife Marion, which is same address at Tam o'shanter inn. Andrew is named as innkeeper, although Tam o' not named. We've come to a dead end now as we can't find Richard and Ann anywhere, not marrage or death or other.
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Ooops, that should have read, thomas's death in 1913!
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Going by the census information Thomas WELSH is born in Ireland, not Scotland
If you have credits for ScotlandsPeople you might be able to find a birth for William b. ~ 1895
I think it is likely that William is mistaken in believing he is born overseas. Father Thomas does not seem to have an occupation for colonial employment, such as military or civil service. And I wonder why William only knows this birthplace many years later.
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Hi Wivenhoe and all,
We have made a few discoveries, such as William was born in 1894 and his middle name (which we've always thought the initial was J, not a B or an F) is actually James. The family are living in Overmills and Thomas is a carter. Re the birth of Thomas Welsh, we're wondering if he mistakenly thought he was born in Ireland, and later discovered he was illegitimately born to Isabella Welsh in Maybole (we have the cert. showing the birth) as we've found a Richard and Ann Welsh (pob Ireland) on the 1871 census, sans children. Is it possible they took over Isabella's illegitimate child because she was related to them. We can't find any other reference to a Richard and Ann Welsh with Thomas on any census material, they only appear on Thomas's marriage cert. as Richard Welsh and Ann Jane nee Dunbar, and on his death cert. as Richard Montgomery Welsh and Ann Jane nee Dunbar. Any thoughts?
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Can you write up all the information from the marriage certificate please.
Welsh might have started out as Walsh...is Thomas literate?
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1st Dec. 1893 Drybridge Dundonald
(signed) Thomas Welsh Carter (bachelor) residence Overmills Age 26
Parents Richard Welsh General Labourer (Deceased) Ann Jane Welsh MS Dunbar
(signed) Isabella Allan Rolley Dairymaid (spinster) Age 23
Parents William Rolley General Labourer Margaret Rolley MS Allan
Witnesses William J. Moore and Margaret Rollie
Drybridge, Dundonald
Gibbs Registrar
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Thomas Welsh and Isabella Rolley would seem to be including family names in the given names of their children. If you get the death certificate for Isabella you might find other children you have not so far located, with family names included, which might add to what you have already.
If Thomas's father is Richard you might expect to see a son named Richard?
From the marriage certificate 1893 you can see that Thomas knows his father is dead....so, his mother is alive?.
"...Parents Richard Welsh General Labourer (Deceased) Ann Jane Welsh MS Dunbar
.........Witnesses William J. Moore...."
On ScotlandsPeople index...death
1906 MOORE Ann Jane other surname DUNBAR 63yrs Ayr
Maybe mother of Thomas?
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Thanks Wivenhoe,
Decided to get the cert. you mentioned. Details as follows:
Ann Jane Moor (widow of Joseph Moore) 3.1.1906 Residence 207 High St. Ayr. Father -----Dunbar, Deceased
MS -------(Deceased) Cardiac failure. 65 years. Informant: William James Moor (Son)
Got William James Moor's birth cert. and his parents married 1871 in Lisburn, Ireland. He was born 1872 Woodstone, Ayr. So, it appears that Richard Welsh died and that Ann married Joseph Moor. Found 1881 on familysearch (nothing on scot's site) with a Thomas Welch Moor living in Maybole, Ayr, aged 13, but can't confirm as can't get original census.
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Meant to add that it is possible that William J Moore on Thomas Welsh's marriage certificate could have been be his half brother. Do you know if people at the time went backwards and forwards between Ireland and Scotland easily, or often? Thanks for your help...
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Wivenohoe and all,
On Ann Jane Moor's death cert. mother is stated as : Ann Jane Dunbar MS ---------
Also, we found a transcript of the 1881 census for Maybole. Details as follows:
Joseph MOOR M 51 M Ireland
Rel: Head
Occ: Agricultural labourer
Annie MOOR F 40 Ireland
Rel: Wife
Thomas Welch MOOR 12 M Ireland
Rel: Son
William James MOOR 8 M Kirkmichael, Ayrshire
Rel: Son
This doesn't explain why Thomas says he is born Ireland on 1901 census, and then Maybole on 1911 census. Unless he learned that his birth details were incorrect in some way. The MOOR connection perhaps explains the Moore part of hubby's father name (John Moore Welsh).
We are now trying to find Richard Welsh, named as Thomas's father on wedding and death cert. and, presumably, his father.
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Does anyone have access to Scottish newspapers of the early 1900's, please? The RCE related to the death of Thomas Welsh in 1913, states that he died at Workman's Buildings, King St. Ayr at between 1 and 4am, falling from a verandah and fracturing his skull. There is a page on Rootschat about this place, commonly know in the area at the time as Spion Kop, after the old battle. We're wondering if there was a newspaper report, which might tell us the circumstances surrounding the accident. Regarding the number of children, in 1911, there had been 11 births to Thomas and Isabella, of which 10 were still living. Of course, at that time, John Moore was yet to be born (1913). The rootschat page is titled Spion Kop (Workman's Dwellings) King St. Ayr. There is a photo posted that shows a three story buildings surrounded by verandah's, from which Thomas may have fallen. Cheers all flownthenest
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Sorry, should have given the date of the death of Thomas Welsh. He died between 1 and 4am, on 10th May 1913, and the Register of Corrected Entry was made on 23rd May, 1913. Ironically, the date of the RCE was on his birthday...The family home, 4 Blackhouse Crescent, was only five minutes away..
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The 1901 census (as posted by Cando on Page one of this topic) was correctly transcribed. Thomas did state his occupation as 'Electrician,' and his birthplace as 'Ireland.'
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Hello Barbara,
Do you have anything on the Rolley's, or Allan's.
Jonn.
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Hi Jonn,
We know a little about the Allan's and Rolley's.
Isabella's parents names: William Rolley and Margaret Allan, 1866.
The names of Isabella's siblings, James 1868, (Isabella 1870 Dreghorn), William 1873 do, Margaret 1875 do, Mary 1877, Helen 1879, Robert 1881.
Margaret Allan's parents: James Allan m Isabella Watson at Kilwinning, 27th May 1838. Isabella Watson born 1819, daughter of James Watson and Agnes Hood. James Allan born 1812, his parents James Allan and Margaret Wallace.
Children of James Allan and Isabella Watson: Agnes 1840, Margaret 1842, Ann 1845, James 1857.
Isabella Watson died 1874 at Dreghorn.
That's about all we have, subject to finding further info. We have no certificates for these at present, but some film numbers, indexing etc. if they are useful.
Regards, Barbara and John
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Hello Barbara,
Yes I saw most of that,
Here is a census for the Rolley's. 1881. not sure if you have it.
Dalmellington Road, Drybridge, ( Hamlet )
Rolley William, Head, Ag. Lab. M. age 40 years, M. born Kirkoswald, Ayr,
Rolley Margaret, Wife, M. age 39 years, F. born Kilbirnie, Ayr
Rolley James, Son, Coal Miner, age 13 years, M. born Dundonald, Ayr,
Rolley Isabella, Daur, age 10 years, F. born Dreghorn, Ayr,
Rolley William, Son, age 8 years, M. born Dundonald, Ayr,
Rolley Margaret, Daur, age 6 years, F. born, Dundonald, Ayr,
Rolley Mary, Daur, age 4 years, F. born, Dundonald, Ayr,
Rolley Hellen, Daur, age 2 years, F. Born, Dundonald, Ayr,
Rolley Robert, Son, Age 1 month, M. born, Dundonald, Ayr.
On Scottish Census Records, do not take places of birth as certain.
Do you not have the actual marriage certificate of William Rolley, and Margaret Allan, 1866. which would give the parents names of William Rolley, and Margaret Allan.
Regards
Jonn.
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No, we don't have their marriage certificate as yet.
Regards
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Oh, and we did have that census, but thanks for the transcription and advice. We have the 1851 census for James Allan and Isabella, with daughters Margaret and Ann. Do you already have this?
Regards
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We do have the 1871 census from Ancestry Library Scotland Census:
Dreghorn Address: 2 Overton
William Rolley 31
Margaret Rolley 29
James Rolley 3
Isabella Rolley 8 months
Isabella Allan 50
James Allan 14
Robert Lamond 17
James Lamond 15
Regards
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Hello Barbara,
Yes i had that 1851 census.
So you do not know who William Rolley's, parents are.
It also looks like James Allan, died 1870. in Dreghorn, Ayr, aged 60 years. of course there are a lot of James Allan's, in Ayrshire, this one however is about the correct age, i suppose you do not have Isabella Watson Allan's, death certificate of 1874. which would give parents names and would also state if James Allan, was deceased at that time indicating a pointer to the above death i mention.
Here is a indicator to whom i think are William Rolley's, parents and siblings at this time, 1841.
Kirkoswald, Ayrshire,
Adress Kirkoswald,
Rowley Alexander M. 35 years, Agricultural Lab. born Ireland,
Rowley Helen, F. age 30 years, born Ireland,
Rowley John, M. age 9 years, born Ayrshire,
Rowley James, M. age 6 years, born Ayrshire,
Rowley Robert, M. age 3 years, born Ayrshire,
Rowley William, M. age 1 years, born Ayrshire,
Rowley Alexander, M. age 13 years, born Ireland.
The 1841. census in Scotland, does not supply relationships to the people in a household.
You will also notice the spelling of the surname, however William Rolley, states on the 1881. census
that he was born in Kirkoswald, Ayrshire, and is aged 40 years on that census.
However William Rolley, does not seem to have a son name Alexander, however he has a daughter Helen, sons James, and Robert and of course William.
I still think this is your William Rolley, in 1841. with his parents and brothers.
His mothers name i think is Helen Best.
The only way to prove this is to get William Rolley's, marriage certificate 1866. Dreghorn, Ayr. which would confirm his parents names.
Regards,
Jonn.
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Got that certificate and you are right, Alexander Rowley (sic) and Helen MS Best are William Rolley's parents.
Details of the marriage of William and Margaret:
7th December, 1866 Kirkland Row(s?) Parish of Dreghorn
After Bann's etc...
William Rolley, Ploughman, Bachelor 24, Drybridge, Dundonald. Parents: Alexander Rollo, Labourer. Helen Rollo, MS Best (Deceased)
Margaret Allan, Farm Servant, Spinster 24, Kirkland Row, Dreghorn. Parents: James Allan, Coal-Miner, Isabella Allan MS Watson
10th December at Dreghorn (Signed) James Milray, Minister. Signed John Borland, Witness. John McWhirter, Witness. James Manson, Registrar
There is a wordy, additional note at the bottom of the page dated 1st March 1867, Dreghorn, relating to errors in previous entries to this one, and mentioning duplicates, endorsed by James Manson, Registrar. Perhaps this was the final entry in the book.
We note that both Alexander and Helen appear as 'Rollo.'
When John's parents married in Coburg, Victoria, Australia (1941) Isabella's name also appears as 'Rollo.' We don't think she attended the wedding as she does not appear in the one, unposed group shot that we have.
Are there any valid connections to the Rollo family that you know of?
Also can we please ask if/where you fit into this family tree?
William Rolley and Margaret Allan are John's great grandparents.
Unfortunately, John has never met or had any contact with any of his other paternal relatives. He last saw his father (John Moore Welsh) at the age of five and was told of his death when he was 13 (in 1955).
We would love, of course, to have some photographs of the family if possible.
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Hi Everyone,
I stumbled across this site while trying to trace my family history and I was very pleasantly surprised to find this thread on my maternal great grandfather Thomas W Welsh. My tree starting with me goes: Me ------> Laura May Welsh (my mother) ---------> Robert Allan Welsh (grandfather) -------> Thomas W Welsh (great grandfather - Isabella Allan Rolley, his wife) ------------> Richard Montgomery Welsh (great great grandfather).
I never knew my grandfather as he left Australia for New Zealand possibly in 1938/9 where he married for a second time. I found him listed in a New Zealand electoral roll as Robert Allan Rollo Welsh. Some of the children of his second marriage live in Geelong. Of my grandfather's siblings I only met May Montgomery Welsh who lived in Lara.
I feel I have enough information on my grandfather's family tree but I am having difficulty finding anything on my grandmother's tree. She was the first wife of Robert Allan Welsh and her name was May Elliott later Welsh. I know this is a bit off topic but I would really appreciate any information that somebody may have.
Cheers,
Erol.
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Sorry, forgot to mention: in the post immediately above me, flownthenest asked if their was any connection between the Rollo and Rolley (Rollie) names.
My great aunt May Mongomery Welsh used to chat a bit with my sisters. I asked them if May had ever mentioned the connection and they said that May said that the Rolleys were a branch of the Rollo clan and that seems to be the understanding in the family.
When I go to Scotland at the end of next year 2018, I will go to see a professional genealogist to sort this out. I am also trying to make contact with my half uncles/aunts and cousins in both Australia and New Zealand to see if they know anything more on this question. They are the descendants of Robert Allan Rollo Welsh.
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Hi Erol,
To know more about your grandfather's first wife -parents, place of birth etc.- you would need to purchase the certificate of the marriage. An uncertified image can be downloaded to your computer immediately upon payment.
This is the "how to" link
http://www.bdm.vic.gov.au/home/family+history/help+guide/
Victorian certificates of that era are rich in information.
http://www.jaunay.com/bdm.html
However, if you already have details of her background, you should share them with the helpers here and we may find more.
I can see some electoral roll entries for the couple, but nothing definite after 1936. I will type this if you do not have them.
May (nee ELLIOTT) may have remarried also.
Robert in trouble for stealing in 1930. A gaol sentence.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/4071394?searchTerm=%22Robert%20allan%20welsh%22&searchLimits=l-state=Victoria
Sue
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Hi Sue,
Thanks so much for that. I have paid for the marriage certificate and hopefully it comes next week. Thanks for bit at the end about Robert Allan Welsh getting in trouble with the law! Precious stuff.
Erol.
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Hi Sue,
Thanks so much for that. I have paid for the marriage certificate and hopefully it comes next week. Thanks for bit at the end about Robert Allan Welsh getting in trouble with the law! Precious stuff.
Erol.
Hi Erol,
I am not quite sure about what you are "waiting for" next week.
The download availability is effective immediately after payment.
This is the marriage which I assumed you had.
WELSH, Robert Alan
ELLIOTT, May
Year 1932
Reg. 4911
The guidance link again.
http://www.bdm.vic.gov.au/home/family+history/help+guide/
See Step 4, second dot point.
Followed by..... scroll down......
How to download the image.
Sue
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Anyhow, here are some electoral roll sightings.
1931. At 87 Cotham Rd. Kew
WELSH, Robert Alan. Cook.
WELSH, Isabella.Cook
1934. At 40 Oxford St. Geelong Nth.
WELSH, Robert Alan. Labourer
WELSH, May. HD
1936. At 18 Donelly Street. Geelong
WELSH, Robert Alan. Slaughterman
WELSH, May HD
Sue
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NZ Electoral Roll
1981 Auckland/Roskill
WELSH Robert Allan Rollo 46 Bollard Avenue Retired
https://www.bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/search/
1986/34425
WELSH Robert Alan Rollo 79 years
Cremated at the Waikumete Cemetery, Auckland, NZ
WELSH Robert Alan Rollo 79 years Retired Labourer
Plot N/A
Interment Type Scattered Ashes
Date Of Death 7 Jan 1986
Date Of Cremation N/A
Date Of Burial N/A
Funeral Director J Weir & Co Ltd
Head Stone Details N/A
Auckland probates
WELSH Robert Allan Rollo 1986 Department for Courts, Auckland High Court
Cando
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Thanks Sue, thanks Cando.
I now have the scanned copy of the original marriage certificate which gives the parent's name of Robert Alan Welsh as: Thomas Welsh and Isabella Rollo.
May Welsh: David Elliott and Mary Fullerton.
I am new at this stuff and my search skills are at beginner level but I did a search on Ancestry.com and couldn't turn up anything that linked David Elliott and Mary Fullerton to May Welsh (Elliott).
I will keep looking and post anything that makes the linkages.
Thanks Cando for that historical detail. Also thanks Sue for same.
I have ordered the NZ death cert of Robert Welsh and I hope that gives the nakes of his wife and children.
Cheers,
Erol.
PS: by the way, are we allowed to post death & marriage certificates here. Is there a copyright thing with that?
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Hi Erol,
The marriage certificate which you now have will contain many other details of the couple.
It would be helpful to those wanting to assist if you could type all of them.
For instance knowing the place and date of May's birth, her father's occupation etc. may help to locate her family prior to the marriage.
Meantime ;D
Here are some not so good snips about Robert- ::)
Robert WELSH in trouble for assault in 1934
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/10995695
More trouble 1935
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/203893185
Sue
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I think attaching the certificate as a pdf doesn't breaching copyright as only the link shows.
Judith
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Does anyone know anything on Robert Allan Rollo welsh's 2nd wife/partner Rangi?