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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: lc657604 on Saturday 02 November 13 12:58 GMT (UK)

Title: Info on William john curzon 1900-1938
Post by: lc657604 on Saturday 02 November 13 12:58 GMT (UK)
I was woundering if anyone has any information on him hes was my great granddad who died in 1938 and was born 1900 from lancashire (widnes) his wife was called gurtrude have no info on her. His children were called trudy curzon, marrie curzon, gurtrude curzon and david curzon. The lived in moorfield in widness. thats all i have gotton from my dad. If someone could help would be great thanks
Title: Re: Info on William john curzon 1900-1938
Post by: groom on Saturday 02 November 13 13:09 GMT (UK)
Welcome to Rootschat - are any of the people you mention still alive, if so you need to remove their names.

Here is your great grandfather's marriage

William Curzon
Prescot   Lancashire
1930   Jan-Feb-Mar quarter
Spouse Gertrude  Hogan
Volume  8B Page   884
Title: Re: Info on William john curzon 1900-1938
Post by: heatherjulie on Saturday 02 November 13 13:19 GMT (UK)
Hi
Welcome to Rootschat!

This is the marriage from www.lancashirebmd.org.uk   - this is a very good site to use.

William  CURZON and Gertrude HOGAN in 1930 at Prescot Register Office or Registrar Attended

This means that it was either in a registry office or a non conformist chuch eg Catholic, Methodist etc

Heather
Title: Re: Info on William john curzon 1900-1938
Post by: groom on Saturday 02 November 13 13:19 GMT (UK)
This could be his family in 1901, but you really need to buy the marriage certificate to find his father's name and occupation to make sure that you are following the correct line.

RG13 Piece: 3725 Folio: 63 Page: 22 
13, Woodland Street, Broughton   Lancashire

William J Curzon   Head   Married       32   Moulder's Labourer Copper Works Winsford, Chester       
Ann Curzon   Wife   Married       30                                                 Winsford, Chester   
Edward Dickinson   Son   Single   13     Grocer's Errand Boy                    Winsford, Chester   
Florence Curzon   Daughter   Single   11        School                                 Winsford, Chester       
Arthur Curzon   Son   Single       9     School                                        Winsford, Chester   
Albert Curzon   Son   Single       7        School                                 Winsford, Chester   
William J Curzon   Son   Single       0 (11 MOS)   1                             Broughton, Lancaster
Title: Re: Info on William john curzon 1900-1938
Post by: heatherjulie on Saturday 02 November 13 13:21 GMT (UK)
Gertrude Hogan birth registered in 1900 Halton
Title: Re: Info on William john curzon 1900-1938
Post by: heatherjulie on Saturday 02 November 13 13:24 GMT (UK)
Possible birth registration
 William J CURZON in 1900 Broughton, Salford
Title: Re: Info on William john curzon 1900-1938
Post by: groom on Saturday 02 November 13 13:28 GMT (UK)
This looks like Gertrude's family in 1901
RG13 Piece: 3515 Folio: 21 Page: 33   
47, Eleanor Street, Widnes

Michael Hogan   Head   Married   M   34        Chemical Labourer              Ireland   
Margaret Hogan   Wife   Married   F   33                                                    Ireland   
Mary Hogan   Daughter   Single   F   14                                            Widnes, Lancashire   
Michael Hogan   Son   Single   M   9                                                Widnes, Lancashire   
James Hogan   Son   Single   M   7                                                 Widnes, Lancashire   
Dorothy Hogan   Daughter   Single   F   5                                             Widnes, Lancashire   
Andrew    Hogan Son   Single   M   3                                                 Widnes, Lancashire   
Gertrude Hogan   Daughter   Single   F   1                                             Widnes, Lancashire       
Frank Livingstone   Boarder   Married   M   38   Chemical Labourer         Ireland       
Elizabeth Livingstone   Boarder   Married   F   20                                   Witten Park, Durham
Title: Re: Info on William john curzon 1900-1938
Post by: Ladyhawk on Saturday 02 November 13 13:53 GMT (UK)
This could be his family in 1901, but you really need to buy the marriage certificate to find his father's name and occupation to make sure that you are following the correct line.

RG13 Piece: 3725 Folio: 63 Page: 22 
13, Woodland Street, Broughton   Lancashire

William J Curzon   Head   Married       32   Moulder's Labourer Copper Works Winsford, Chester       
Ann Curzon   Wife   Married       30                                                 Winsford, Chester   
Edward Dickinson   Son   Single   13     Grocer's Errand Boy                    Winsford, Chester   
Florence Curzon   Daughter   Single   11        School                                 Winsford, Chester       
Arthur Curzon   Son   Single       9     School                                        Winsford, Chester   
Albert Curzon   Son   Single       7        School                                 Winsford, Chester   
William J Curzon   Son   Single       0 (11 MOS)   1                             Broughton, Lancaster

There is a public tree on Anc*y with following info.  needs to be verified but this looks to be the same family from 1901c that Groom has posted

William John Curzon b1868 d1923 Wharton married 1889 St Chad’s church Over Cheshire
Ann Dickenson b1870 d1923, 7 children
Florence ,Albert, Arthur, Walter, William John b1900 Broughton , Gladys & Arnold

info. for
Wiilliam John b 1900 Broughton died 1975 Longsight Manchester
he  married in 1923 Evaline Gribbin b1902 d1995

As suggested by Groom obtaining the marriage certificate would confirm  his father's name & occupation

Title: Re: Info on William john curzon 1900-1938
Post by: lc657604 on Saturday 02 November 13 13:57 GMT (UK)
Gerturde hogan double checked it with my dad and yes she was my great grandma who married my great grandad i did check that senses the william john curzon died in 1938 before my grandad was born he was born in 1939 so he never met his dad
Title: Re: Info on William john curzon 1900-1938
Post by: groom on Saturday 02 November 13 14:08 GMT (UK)
Quote
info. for
Wiilliam John b 1900 Broughton died 1975 Longsight Manchester
he  married in 1923 Evaline Gribbin b1902 d1995

So if that tree is correct, unless William divorced Evaline and married Gertrude, he cant be the same one we are looking for. The only way is to get the marriage certificate from the GRO as that will give you the information you need hopefully.

http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/default.asp
Title: Re: Info on William john curzon 1900-1938
Post by: lc657604 on Saturday 02 November 13 14:14 GMT (UK)
If it helps William curzon had a brother called John curzon who died in the early 1990s my problem is that we have a family 'bible' so its called with everyones names but no one knows where its gone so we have to research it all instead . Thank you ever so much for the information so far its been a big help and yes i will have a look at that xx
Title: Re: Info on William john curzon 1900-1938
Post by: groom on Saturday 02 November 13 14:19 GMT (UK)
Here are the children of William and Gertrude - I cant find a Trudy though:

Births Sep 1931   
Curzon    Mary    mother's m/n Hogan    Prescot    8b   1163      

Births Jun 1935   
Curzon    Gertrude M mother's m/n    Hogan    Prescot    8b   1134   
 
Births Dec 1938   
Curzon    David W   mother's m/n  Hogan    Prescot    8b   963

Are you sure that Gertrude and Trudy couldn't be the same person ie Gertrude was known as Trudy?
Title: Re: Info on William john curzon 1900-1938
Post by: lc657604 on Saturday 02 November 13 14:29 GMT (UK)
i will ask unless i herd my dad wrong and yes david was my granddad is their anything on my great great grandad?? as i have tried to find out further but cant get any were
Title: Re: Info on William john curzon 1900-1938
Post by: Ladyhawk on Saturday 02 November 13 14:43 GMT (UK)
If it helps William curzon had a brother called John curzon who died in the early 1990s

Do you know where William & John Curzon died?

I'm not seeing a 1938 death for William John Curzon in Lancashire  ??? I've looked on FreeBMD  http://www.freebmd.org.uk

Do you know if his brother John married?
 
There's a marriage 1923 Warrington female surname BOND
have not named in full as I do not know if this person has died we cannot name living person/s
you can check the name on the above link for FreeBMD
Title: Re: Info on William john curzon 1900-1938
Post by: groom on Saturday 02 November 13 14:46 GMT (UK)
I cant find one either in 1938, Ladyhawk. Could it have been a bit later and he died in the Second World War?
Title: Re: Info on William john curzon 1900-1938
Post by: groom on Saturday 02 November 13 14:52 GMT (UK)
Are you 100% certain that he did die and that the marriage didn't end? There is this death

William John Curzon
Manchester   Lancashire
1975 Quarter of registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
Date of Birth:30 April 1900
Volume no: 38 Page no: 1174
 
Title: Re: Info on William john curzon 1900-1938
Post by: lc657604 on Saturday 02 November 13 15:00 GMT (UK)
 i know gertude remarried Would you know if that is the same william curzon who married getrude? Spoke to my dad and he said no he didnt die in a war.  my great grandads brother died in 1996 and so did his wife my dads a little unsure of her maiden name though
Title: Re: Info on William john curzon 1900-1938
Post by: lc657604 on Saturday 02 November 13 15:02 GMT (UK)
Could be why i cant find anything either maybe he didnt die at the time my grandad was told
Title: Re: Info on William john curzon 1900-1938
Post by: groom on Saturday 02 November 13 15:07 GMT (UK)
It looks as if Gertrude remarried in 1946. As we can't find a death, it looks as if either the marriage did finish or he was killed abroad in the war.

Gertrude Curzon
Prescot   Lancashire
1946 Quarter of registration: Apr-May-Jun
Spouse  James Knott
Volume   8B Page  1530

There is another Gertrude Curzon marrying in 1953, but this is probably the daughter.
Title: Re: Info on William john curzon 1900-1938
Post by: lc657604 on Saturday 02 November 13 15:11 GMT (UK)
yes she did re marry I got told that and the 1953 was the daughter
Title: Re: Info on William john curzon 1900-1938
Post by: Ladyhawk on Saturday 02 November 13 15:12 GMT (UK)

  my great grandads brother died in 1996 and so did his wife my dads a little unsure of her maiden name though

If you use the FreeBMD link you can check for the marriages for persons named John Curzon and see if any of the female names ring a bell
Title: Re: Info on William john curzon 1900-1938
Post by: groom on Saturday 02 November 13 15:14 GMT (UK)
This is a bit of a puzzle - as we said earlier, you need to get the marriage certificate before we go further.
Title: Re: Info on William john curzon 1900-1938
Post by: Ladyhawk on Saturday 02 November 13 15:15 GMT (UK)
Thanks Groom  was posting when red warning so went back and modified my post as I'd seen you had found the remarriage
Title: Re: Info on William john curzon 1900-1938
Post by: groom on Saturday 02 November 13 15:16 GMT (UK)
Thanks Groom  was posting when red warning so went back and modified my post as I'd seen you had found the remarriage

Then I changed my post as well.  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Info on William john curzon 1900-1938
Post by: lc657604 on Saturday 02 November 13 15:19 GMT (UK)
I have emailed lancashire births and deaths office as they weren't answering phone so see if i can get ahold of them and how much it would cost, it is a puzzle though
Title: Re: Info on William john curzon 1900-1938
Post by: lc657604 on Saturday 02 November 13 15:24 GMT (UK)
I have checked world war 1 and 2 records though no army service man of curzon
Title: Re: Info on William john curzon 1900-1938
Post by: groom on Saturday 02 November 13 15:27 GMT (UK)
You can order on line from the GRO - I gave you the link earlier. Certificates cost £9.25 from them.

The William John Curzon who was born in 1869 (possibly your William's father) died on 21st November 1943. His address was 6, Clarence Street, Salford. Probate was granted to Arthur Curzon (son) a motor driver and Walter Moores a charge hand. He left £287. 17s 9d.
Title: Re: Info on William john curzon 1900-1938
Post by: Ladyhawk on Saturday 02 November 13 15:29 GMT (UK)
Lancashire BMD has three William CURZON marriages

for

1923 William J to Evaline St Clements Broughton

1930 William  to Gertrude Prescot Register Office Registrar Attended

1940 William John to Ann Manchester Register Office or Registrar Attended

1946 Gertrude Hogan/Curzon to James Prescot Register Office or Registrar Attended
Title: Re: Info on William john curzon 1900-1938
Post by: lc657604 on Saturday 02 November 13 15:37 GMT (UK)
it looks like they both remarried?, the william curzon who married ann is that the william who died in 1975? think if i dont get an  email back tomorrow will have to ring them
Title: Re: Info on William john curzon 1900-1938
Post by: groom on Saturday 02 November 13 15:40 GMT (UK)
You aren't likely to get any response from them until Monday at the earliest, I doubt very much if they work over the weekend.
Title: Re: Info on William john curzon 1900-1938
Post by: lc657604 on Saturday 02 November 13 15:42 GMT (UK)
i keep thinking its sunday i ment monday
Title: Re: Info on William john curzon 1900-1938
Post by: Ladyhawk on Saturday 02 November 13 16:03 GMT (UK)
It appears as if the Evaline who married William John in 1923 remarried

1948 Manchester Register Office or Registrar Attended
 Gribben/Curzon to John G L (see Lancashire BMD)

He died 1975

John Gerald Litt age 66 born 31 Jan 1909
Date of Registration:   Jun 1975
Registration District:   Fleetwood Lancashire

Hopefully you will get some answers on Monday  :)

Title: Re: Info on William john curzon 1900-1938
Post by: Ladyhawk on Saturday 02 November 13 16:55 GMT (UK)
I don't know if this will help sort out anything but it looks as if

William & Evaline had a daugther that died in infancy

Patricia Curzon mmn Gribbin born Jun 1935 Manchester died Jun 1935 Manchester

there's also a male CURZON born Sep 1923 West Derby mmn Gribbin
he married in Dec 1946 Salford (see FreeBMD)

The 1940 Curzon marriage on Lancashire BMD
there's a male child born Sep 1943 Manchester mother's maiden name is the same
Title: Re: Info on William john curzon 1900-1938
Post by: groom on Saturday 02 November 13 17:18 GMT (UK)
Quote
William & Evaline had a daugther that died in infancy

Patricia Curzon mmn Gribbin born Jun 1935 Manchester died Jun 1935 Manchester

We have a slight problem here - as William married Gertrude in 1930. So were there two William Curzons born about the same time and in the same place? Or did Eveline have a child out of marriage - that child would have still been a Curzon (although not William's child) and mother's maiden name name would have been Gribbin?
Title: Re: Info on William john curzon 1900-1938
Post by: lc657604 on Saturday 02 November 13 17:27 GMT (UK)
thats the confusing bit i managed to track down a william curzon but the records didnt add up like wife etc as far as we got 'told' gertrude was the only wife he had but i think when i speak to them monday i may be able to find the facts
Title: Re: Info on William john curzon 1900-1938
Post by: groom on Saturday 02 November 13 17:34 GMT (UK)
You may find that they wont give you any information over the phone, but will expect you to buy the certificates. At the moment, as Ladyhawk has said, it appears that William could have married 3 times, in 1923, 1930 and 1940. You may have to be prepared to buy all three to see if it is actually the same man.
Title: Re: Info on William john curzon 1900-1938
Post by: lc657604 on Saturday 02 November 13 17:43 GMT (UK)
I think i may have to prove i'm family like send of my birth certificate but hopefully i can find out but talking to my farther i think i may have uncovered something that may have been hushed up i supose some familes have secrets no matter how old
Title: Re: Info on William john curzon 1900-1938
Post by: groom on Saturday 02 November 13 17:50 GMT (UK)
I presume this is the first time that you have applied for certificates?

It is quite an easy process, although I've only ever done it through the GRO. All you need do is give the relevant information from Freebmd or The Lancashire BMD site - that is where the information we have given you came from. They take your money and send the certificate. You dont need to prove who you are, anyone can apply for certificates.

I think from what we have discovered, there is more to it than you knew. As you say, all families have secrets and finding these out is part of what makes this hobby so interesting.

Let us know how you get on.
Title: Re: Info on William john curzon 1900-1938
Post by: lc657604 on Saturday 02 November 13 17:55 GMT (UK)
yes i know even better when its your own ive had look on lancashire parish marriages and ive found;

Marriage: 25 Dec 1846 St Wilfrid, Farnworth near Prescot, Lancs.
George Curzon - of full age, Carpenter, widower, Parr
Sarah Ann Evans - (X), of full age, spinster, Parr
    Groom's Father: William Curzon, Waterman
    Bride's Father: James Evans, Waterman
    Witness: George Findlon, (X); Margaret Ellison, (X)
    Married by Banns by: Frederic Walker - Curate
    Register: Marriages 1845 - 1850, Page 74, Entry 148
    Source: LDS Film 1655236 item 3

Long shot i know but i'm hoping george could be williams (my great grandads dad)
Title: Re: Info on William john curzon 1900-1938
Post by: lc657604 on Saturday 02 November 13 18:02 GMT (UK)
yes  will let you know how it goes
Title: Re: Info on William john curzon 1900-1938
Post by: groom on Saturday 02 November 13 18:19 GMT (UK)
I think you may be jumping the gun a bit. You can't really do anything more until you get the certificate that you are most certain about - that of William and Gertrude's marriage. That should give you the name of William's father. Once you have that you can work backwards.

Hopefully it will show that his father was William J Curzon ( who according to the 1901 census was born about 1869) You then need to find that William in a census and so get his family. If that is the correct family, remember that he was born, according to the census, in Cheshire not Lancashire
Title: Re: Info on William john curzon 1900-1938
Post by: lc657604 on Saturday 02 November 13 18:25 GMT (UK)
okies i will have a look will let you know what i can find when i do thank you all for your help
Title: Re: Info on William john curzon 1900-1938
Post by: lc657604 on Thursday 07 November 13 22:39 GMT (UK)
Hey i havent managed to get ahold of any records but ive got better i managed to get in contact with my cousins and one of them has traced family back to 1776 in over Cheshire  which is amazing even have pictures as well of my great great grandparents
Title: Re: Info on William john curzon 1900-1938
Post by: lc657604 on Thursday 07 November 13 22:53 GMT (UK)
this is the correct family of mine

Marriage: 25 Dec 1846 St Wilfrid, Farnworth near Prescot, Lancs.
George Curzon - of full age, Carpenter, widower, Parr
Sarah Ann Evans - (X), of full age, spinster, Parr
    Groom's Father: William Curzon, Waterman
    Bride's Father: James Evans, Waterman
    Witness: George Findlon, (X); Margaret Ellison, (X)
    Married by Banns by: Frederic Walker - Curate
    Register: Marriages 1845 - 1850, Page 74, Entry 148
    Source: LDS Film 1655236 item 3

they Went on to have a son called alfred curzon who married emily
they then had james and willaim curzon my great grandad
George's Dad as William Curzon (Curson) Birth 1776 in Wharton, Over Cheshire, England
Death 7 June 1856 in Over, Cheshire. .

I have found a census record for 1911 that shows William aged 8 living at 22 Irwell Street Widnes, with his Mum, Dad & Granddad James.
Title: Re: Info on William john curzon 1900-1938
Post by: Christy-B on Friday 13 February 15 00:18 GMT (UK)
Hi I'm a granddaughter of William Curzon & Gertrude Curzon, she remarried after William died aged 38 of pneumonia, her second husband was James Knott, I'm intrigued about the story of my grandfather having been married before! I have a lot of documentation and this does not appear anywhere. Is this one of Davids children searching or my mother's sister Maries children ?
My mother sadly died a few months ago.
Title: Re: Info on William john curzon 1900-1938
Post by: Ladyhawk on Friday 13 February 15 14:33 GMT (UK)
Hello & welcome to Rootschat Christy-B   :)

There is a personal message system where you can contact a member privately and only you
and that person can see the information.

You have to make THREE post for this is become active so if you wish just post another twice on here. 

Ic657604 does not appear to have been active on Rootschat since Nov 2013 but if their email is still active they should receive notification of these recent posts and hopefully make contact.

Very sorry for your recent loss.
Title: Re: Info on William john curzon 1900-1938
Post by: Christy-B on Saturday 14 February 15 00:22 GMT (UK)
I forgot to mention I have several Birth certificates and some lovely photos of William & Gertrude would love to see more, and thank you for the condolences regarding my mother Trudy.
Title: Re: Info on William john curzon 1900-1938
Post by: saddles on Saturday 14 February 15 01:31 GMT (UK)
I have sent you a PM.
Title: Re: Info on William john curzon 1900-1938
Post by: lc657604 on Wednesday 14 October 15 11:32 BST (UK)
Just noticed the added posts by chance as googled more family tree..yes I'm either his grand child or child depends which David you mean x pm me Christy and I will post you my email a cousin from widness sent me a family tree a few years back I can show you on email if you want