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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: Joyful on Friday 01 November 13 10:19 GMT (UK)

Title: Marriage - John Black & Jane Russell
Post by: Joyful on Friday 01 November 13 10:19 GMT (UK)

I would be very grateful if someone could find a marriage in Victoria for the above couple.

I can't find one and I'm nearly cross-eyed, all I know is that their daughter Martha Black was

born in Eaglehawk in 1871 and married William Scilley in Eaglehawk 18 Feb 1891.

Thanks
Joyful
Title: Re: Marriage - John Black & Jane Russell
Post by: sparrett on Friday 01 November 13 10:28 GMT (UK)
There is not a marriage registered for the couple in Victoria.

Martha was the fourth of six births to John BLACK and Jane nee RUSSELL .

These births can be listed if needed and started 1863 with the last being in 1873

Sue
Title: Re: Marriage - John Black & Jane Russell
Post by: Joyful on Friday 01 November 13 10:35 GMT (UK)
Thanks Sue very much for that information...that explains why I couldn't
find a marriage ;D
If you would list the other children I would appreciate it.

Thanks
Joy
Title: Re: Marriage - John Black & Jane Russell
Post by: ciderdrinker on Friday 01 November 13 11:45 GMT (UK)
Hi
I'm not Sue but here are the other children
John (Johnnie)1861 Myers Flat Victoria died 9.7.1862
Margaret Ann 27 4 1863 Peg Leg Gully Nerrin Nerrin Victoria registered Nerring. M.1886 David Marshall Cousin
William 1865 Eaglehawk married Ann Gowland 1888.
Elizabeth 1867 Eaglehawk married 1888 John William Fred Schmidt
Martha 1871 Eaglehawk
Agnes born 1872 and died22.6. 1873 Eaglehawk
Ellen (Nellie)1876 Nerrin Nerrin  registered Nerring died 24.4.1887 Eaglehawk.
There's a picture on Find my grave of the parents grave with the 3 children.Eaglehawk Cemetery.
John William Black born 1817 Ireland died 2.1.1892 Bendigo Victoria and Jane Russell Black Ireland 1837-21.5.1894
There's also a tree on Ancestry with a picture of their daughter Margaret Ann Black.
John may have  have arrived on the Hive to NSW in 1835 from Antrim.He was convicted 1.7.1835 of stealing clothes.Protestant ,he could R&W.He got 7 years was 5ft 21/2 ruddy and freckled.Brown hair and eyes,small scar on forehead and left knuckle forefinger and little finger.He had been a farmer's boy.
Not sure about that last bit ,because he is in NSW and at  the same time as a Jane Russell born 1837 appears at Darlinghurst prison but she appears in the prison register on and off after the birth of their first child until 1862.
Ciderdrinker
Title: Re: Marriage - John Black & Jane Russell
Post by: rosball on Friday 01 November 13 11:52 GMT (UK)
I don't know if you have this but here is marriage announcement for William Scilley and Martha Black
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article88958983

Scilley—Black.—On the 18th February, at the residence of the bride's sister (Mrs. Hadden),
King street, by the Rev. R. Lewers, William, eldest son of Mr Thomas Scilley, of Kotunga, to
Martha, youngest daughter of Mr. John Black, late of Eaglehawk.

cheers,
   Ros
Title: Re: Marriage - John Black & Jane Russell
Post by: ciderdrinker on Friday 01 November 13 12:15 GMT (UK)
There's a Mary Black married William James Hadden Victoria 1877.
William James Hadden born 1850 and died 1882 Sandhurst.
There's also an death notice for Jenny Black  21.5.1894 King Street relict of John Black of Eaglehawk age 55 years.
So the gravestone may be 10 years out.
Ciderdrinker
Yes had a look at the Australia death index and there she is age 56 d of William Russell died Bendigo ,Victoria
Title: Re: Marriage - John Black & Jane Russell
Post by: ciderdrinker on Friday 01 November 13 12:25 GMT (UK)
There's also Elizabeth's marriage on Trove 19.3.1888 as the fourth daughter of John Black of Eaglehawk in the Bendigo Advertiser.J.W.Frederick Schmidt of Christ church  New Zealand.
Mary's 30.10.1877 and she is the eldest daughter .Husband William James Hadden eldest so of Archibald of Tyrone.
She dies as Mary Williams Coburg Victoria 1923 age 65 so born 1858
Death for Sampson Rodda s in law 6.7.1924 husband of Jane 6 Vautier St Elwood Melbourne.The marriage seems to have been in 1905 Northam Western Australia.She died Malvern Victoria 1938 daughter of John Black and Jane Russell age 78
Ciderdrinker
Title: Re: Marriage - John Black & Jane Russell
Post by: rosball on Friday 01 November 13 13:06 GMT (UK)
SCILLEY. —On the 15th April, 1931, at his residence, 5 Vautier street, Elwood, William, dearly 
loved husband of Martha Scilley, loving father of Ethel (deceased), Russell, Ruby, Irene, Isabel,   
Mena, and Alan, aged 66 years. —Peace, perfect peace. http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article4382891

cheers,
  Ros
Title: Re: Marriage - John Black & Jane Russell
Post by: Joyful on Friday 01 November 13 23:02 GMT (UK)
WOW! Thank you so much Ciderdrinker and Ros...I am now off to flying start ;)

Martha Black (m W Scilley) is the G/Grandmother of my OH and he knew, nothing about her

or her family, she was just a name. Naturally, I couldn't leave it at that and thanks to both of you

he now knows quite alot more. I only started last night so it's amazing what you've found already.

Many thanks
Joy
Title: Re: Marriage - John Black & Jane Russell
Post by: rosball on Friday 01 November 13 23:19 GMT (UK)
And Martha's death notice (with a typo   ::) http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article12113898

SCILLEY -On the 31st March 1939 at Ormond Martha daughter of the late John and
James Black of Victoria street Eaglehawk loved sister of Mary (Mrs Williams deceased)
John (deceased) Jane (Mrs Rodda deceased) Margaret (Mrs Cousin) William, Elizabeth
(Mrs Schmidt deceased) Agnes (deceased) and Nellie (deceased)

regards,
  Ros
Title: Re: Marriage - John Black & Jane Russell
Post by: sparrett on Friday 01 November 13 23:45 GMT (UK)
Just building on some of the findings of ciderdrinker, here is a more complete listing regarding the births (and some early deaths) of children.  Martha you have. 

To John BLACK and Jane RUSSELL

BLACK, John
Parents John and Jane RUSSEL(sic)
1861.
Myer's Flat
Reg 7305.


BLACK, Margaret Ann
Parents John and Jane RUSSELL
1863
Nerr
Reg.9824

BLACK, William
Parents John and Jane RUSSELL
1865
Eagl
Reg 21831

BLACK, Elizabeth
Parents John and Jane RUSSELL
1867
Eagl
Reg 14620

BLACK, Agnes
Parents John  and Jane RUSSELL
1872
Eagl.
Reg 22871

BLACK, Ellen
Parents John and Jane RUSSELL
1876
Nerr
Reg. 2210


Deaths

BLACK, John
Parents John and Jane  (No mother's surname listed)
Born Nerr.
Reg 7305

BLACK, Agnes
Aged 9 months
Parents John  and Jane RUSSELL
Born Eagl
1873
Reg 3876

BLACK, Ellen
Aged 11 yrs
Parents John  and Jane RUSSELL
Died at Eagl.
1887
Reg 6134

Burials at Eaglehawk Cemetery. All at location Mon H Grave 89
BLACK, Agnis (sic)

BLACK, Nellie
25/4/1887

BLACK Baby female
 8/8/1878

BLACK, Jenny
22/5/1894

BLACK, John
4/01/1892

At Bendigo Cemetery. Location-Pres 1240

BLACK, John
11/7/1862

Sue





Title: Re: Marriage - John Black & Jane Russell
Post by: sparrett on Saturday 02 November 13 00:09 GMT (UK)
William SCILLEY was the first of at least seven births registered to Thomas SCILLEY and Margaret Jane (JOHNSTONE)

SCILLEY, William
Parents Thomas & Margaret Jane JOHNSTONE
1865
Eagl.
Reg 4218

Sue
Title: Re: Marriage - John Black & Jane Russell
Post by: sparrett on Saturday 02 November 13 00:25 GMT (UK)
This is possibly Margaret Jane SCILLEY's arrival in Victoria.
I do not see any others of the surname on that voyage.

SCILLEY   MARY J   Aged 22. Date NOV 1863
Per LANDSBOROUGH 13A    Pg 256

 
Sue
Title: Re: Marriage - John Black & Jane Russell
Post by: rosball on Saturday 02 November 13 01:01 GMT (UK)
Death notice for Margaret Jane Scilley in 1915 http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article1533126

SCILLEY.-On the 3rd July, at "Guildford," private hospital, Shepparton, Margaret Jane, relict
of the late Thos. Scilley, of Katunga, aged 73  years. Beloved mother of William, Thomas,     
Andrew, James, George, also Mrs. D. B. Wilson, Holtom street, North Carlton, Mrs. G. V.
Furphy, Shepparton, Mrs. A. Gilmour, Coleraine. 
Native of County Londonderry, Ireland. A  colonist of 53 years.

regards,
   Ros   
Title: Re: Marriage - John Black & Jane Russell
Post by: Neil Todd on Saturday 02 November 13 01:07 GMT (UK)
Unless your happy that the Jane Russell found in Sydney is the right girl (dubious) then this one may be the one.
The Argus (Melbourne, Vic. : 1848 - 1957), Tuesday 21 April 1857, page 1
Neil
Title: Re: Marriage - John Black & Jane Russell
Post by: sparrett on Saturday 02 November 13 02:17 GMT (UK)
When Margaret Jane SCILLEY widow of Sheparton died in 1915, she left a will which she had drawn up in 1912.

She appointed sons William and James as trustees and was most attentive in favouring her daughters and daughter-in-law who all received generous bequests.

They are named in the document. A niece named Jean JOHNSTONE is also included.

The will is digitised for download and reading. ;D

http://prov.vic.gov.au/index_search?searchid=54

Sue
Title: Re: Marriage - John Black & Jane Russell
Post by: Joyful on Saturday 02 November 13 09:02 GMT (UK)
Wonderful Ros, thank you very much :)

Do you think that John Black and Jane Russell were actually married ??? I'm beginning to think

that perhaps they weren't...I'm open to all suggestions ;D

Many thanks
Joy
Title: Re: Marriage - John Black & Jane Russell
Post by: Joyful on Saturday 02 November 13 10:05 GMT (UK)
Apologies Neil and Sue, that will teach me to scroll down before answering a post :-[

Neil, I'm much happier with that Jane Russell in the newspaper, the one that Ciderdrinker found

just didn't sit well with me (but I do have an open mind!) However, if her birth was ca. 1837 that

would make her approx. 10yrs old on arrival...what do you think?

Many thanks
Joy
Title: Re: Marriage - John Black & Jane Russell
Post by: cando on Saturday 02 November 13 10:07 GMT (UK)
BLACK John
Biographical register 1861 - Myers Flat
Born c1818-24    Married 1857 Antrim, Ireland
Spouse Russell, Jane b c1836
Source Eaglehawk & District Pioneer Register. Annette O'Donohue and Bev Hanson  Page#88

Cando
Title: Re: Marriage - John Black & Jane Russell
Post by: Joyful on Saturday 02 November 13 10:29 GMT (UK)
I'm sorry Sue that I haven't replied sooner but I got sidetracked reading the will etc, which was a

great find on your part. Margaret Jane arrived in Melbourne on the 'Morning Light' 23 Feb 1863

together with Thomas (husband) baby daughter Mary Ann and Margaret's brother Andrew. I have

quite a bit on the Scilley family, though not the will of Margaret Jane so many thanks for that :)

Thanks
Joy
Title: Re: Marriage - John Black & Jane Russell
Post by: Joyful on Saturday 02 November 13 10:34 GMT (UK)
Hi Cando

Well, you clever lady that news is the icing on the cake for me, thank you so much

for looking for me.

Thanks

Joy
Title: Re: Marriage - John Black & Jane Russell
Post by: cando on Saturday 02 November 13 10:53 GMT (UK)
From familysearch.org   No wife on the index. 

BLACK John
Marriage 1857
Antrim, Ireland
Registration District   Antrim
Volume Number:   1
Page Number 182
GS Film number 101246
Digital Folder Number 004195892
Image Number   00294

Cando
Title: Re: Marriage - John Black & Jane Russell
Post by: ~MERLIN~ on Saturday 02 November 13 11:29 GMT (UK)
Marriage:

John BLACK single m. Jane RUSSELL single, age 21yrs
20 Mar 1857 Racavan, Ballymena, Antrim, Ireland.
Groom's Father: Charles BLACK
Bride's Father: William RUSSELL
Title: Re: Marriage - John Black & Jane Russell
Post by: ~MERLIN~ on Saturday 02 November 13 11:53 GMT (UK)
There was an Inquest into John's death:

BLACK John age 73yrs, BENDIGO, 1892
Reference: 4
Cause: Accident drowned

Newspaper reports:

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article89012569
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article8392655
Title: Re: Marriage - John Black & Jane Russell
Post by: ~MERLIN~ on Saturday 02 November 13 12:02 GMT (UK)
Jane's death notice:

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article88946329
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article88946545

Photo of the family grave headstone at Eaglehawk cemetery:

http://www.rootschat.com/links/0wq6/
Title: Re: Marriage - John Black & Jane Russell
Post by: Joyful on Monday 04 November 13 22:43 GMT (UK)
I'm sorry that it has taken me so long to reply, but my son and partner arrived from Perth
and as you can imagine I've been flat out.

Thank you so much Cando and Merlin for all that extra information, it is a tremendous help and when I have time to digest it all there won't be much that I won't know.

I appreciate everyone's help, there's no doubt Rootchatters are a wonderful band of helpers.

Many thanks
Joy
Title: Re: Marriage - John Black & Jane Russell
Post by: may kirkpatrick on Thursday 06 August 15 22:16 BST (UK)
Jane Russell and John Black were married here in Northern Ireland on 25 March 1857.  Her father was William Russell, who was my great great grandfather.  I have various Australian photos including one of a young soldier called Scilley.  On the back is written ' My sister Martha's boy Russell'. Is this your connection - The various other Australian photos which were sent to my grandmother's cousin here in Belfast.  I have been trying for years to get an Australian connection!
May Kirkpatrick
Title: Re: Marriage - John Black & Jane Russell
Post by: Joyful on Friday 07 August 15 03:53 BST (UK)
Hi May
What a surprise but how lovely to hear from you. Martha Black was my husband's Great Grandmother and as you've probably read we knew next to nothing about her or her parents, who are his GG/Grandparents.

My husband's connection is Isobell Annie Scilley his Grandmother and she was the sister of the Russell that you have the photo of. We have no photos but I think I may be able to get a photocopy of Martha that I think is in a book on the Scilley family.

If you make two more posts then we can exchange information via the private messaging
system and I will the give you my email address. You can just say hi or whatever to get the number of posts.
Look forward to hearing from you
Joy
Title: Re: Marriage - John Black & Jane Russell
Post by: may kirkpatrick on Wednesday 12 August 15 10:22 BST (UK)
hello again - another message - I wonder how John Black came to be in Ireland and meet with Jane Russell?
Title: Re: Marriage - John Black & Jane Russell
Post by: Joyful on Wednesday 12 August 15 10:53 BST (UK)
Hi again May :)

Well, from the records found by Ciderdrinker it appears that John Black was born

in Antrim in 1817 and was convicted of stealing clothes and transported to Australia arriving

in about 1835 in Victoria.

I'm off into hospital tomorrow so will be in touch as soon as I can.

Still reply to this message with 'hi' or whatever and I'll contact you via PM as soon as I'm

able.

Joy
Title: Re: Marriage - John Black & Jane Russell
Post by: may kirkpatrick on Wednesday 12 August 15 14:16 BST (UK)
hello again - occupation of 'father' on marriage certificate looks like 'hattier'??
Title: Re: Marriage - John Black & Jane Russell
Post by: may kirkpatrick on Monday 23 November 15 22:26 GMT (UK)
Re John Black and Jane - I, too, in hospital, home now. can we continue correspondence - May K
Title: Re: Marriage - John Black & Jane Russell
Post by: may kirkpatrick on Tuesday 24 November 15 14:00 GMT (UK)
Information which I hold re John Black and Jane Russell, who was my great aunt. Copy Marriage cert showing John and Jane married here on 20 March 1857. the following photos, all from Muriel Black:  'our youngest daughter Daisy who is in charge of the millinery dept in Koroit, 182 miles from home', 'my sister Martha's boy, Russell' (this photo is signed W R Scilley), 'our family group at the seaside where we spent 6 weeks (Menlone?)', 'from Annie, this is my soldier laddie'.  Then there is a photo of 'cousin Will' and two more taken in Mildura and signed'Ruby and Roy'.  All these photos are dated around 1914.  Can you help?
Title: Re: Marriage - John Black & Jane Russell
Post by: may kirkpatrick on Wednesday 13 April 16 19:58 BST (UK)
Hello folks - As stated earlier, Jane Russell from here in Ireland (Lisnamurrican) married John Black in
March 1857. He is described as from 'Australia'.  His father was Charles Black and his occupation looks like 'hattier'?  Jane Russell's father, William, was my great-great-grandfather. My grandmother's cousin corresponded with the Black family in Australia and I have some photos of them which I would love to pass on to the relevant person.  The Russells were an important family in the district and Jane's cousin was knighted by Queen Victoria!  I am at present compiling a history of my ancestors.
On checking in Ancestry I found a John Black born in 1822 and a 'Mrs' Black born 1837 going to Melbourne in September 1857.  This may or  may not be the correct people
MayK
Title: Re: Marriage - John Black & Jane Russell
Post by: may kirkpatrick on Saturday 16 April 16 12:13 BST (UK)
Hope you have read my latest info regarding Jane Russell's marriage
May K
Title: Re: Marriage - John Black & Jane Russell
Post by: mark_and_mini on Monday 28 December 20 02:17 GMT (UK)
Hello,

I have been researching into my Ancestors Jack (john) Black and Jane Russel and came across the message board containing a lot of interesting information.

I would be very interest if anyone can throw any light on their parents/grandparent etc, and if and when they came to Australia and their places of birth.

I would love to see any photos of John & jane if they exist,

Thank you

Regards

Mark