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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: mentmore on Thursday 31 October 13 23:14 GMT (UK)
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Phoebe Amelia Emes was born 1819 in the Shoreditch/Stepney area of London, I can find her in the 1841 census aged 22, after that I can find no trace, any help please.
Would like the details of her in 1841 census, if possible. Who was she living with, was she at home?
Many thanks
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Her baptism:
Phoebe Amelia Emes bn 22 Oct 1819 bpt Jan 4 1824 St Saviours Southwark
Parents:James & Mary, carpenter of St Thomas's
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I can find her in the 1841 census aged 22,
Living in Surrey and in service to the Kipper family
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1841 Census
Beckford Place Lambeth
recorded with
Thomas SLIPPER
Mary SLIPPER
Elizabeth SLIPPER
Anna SLIPPER
Sarah SLIPPER
Edward EYRES
Phoebe Amelia EMES
born in County
:) Jo
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1841 Census
Beckford Place Lambeth
recorded with
Thomas SLIPPER
Mary SLIPPER
Elizabeth SLIPPER
Anna SLIPPER
Sarah SLIPPER
Edward EYRES
Phoebe Amelia EMES
born in County
:) Jo
Ancestry transcribes them as KIPPER
Thomas is a surgeon, all the females are adults. None born in county.
Edward & Phebe are servants
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Many thanks to Marmalady, CarolW,and Josee for your replies.
Where I wonder did she go after 1841?
Thanks again
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1841 also in Lambeth,Kennington (same district as Phebe)
Jas Emes 40 coffee h keeper bn in county
Ann Emes 40 born Ireland
Margaret Emes 15 born Ireland
John Emes 12 born Surrey
George Emes 9 born Surrey
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or another contender for James:
1841 Lambeth Waterloo rd district
James Eames 40 warehouseman born in county
Jane 40
Emma 13
James 9
Louisa 4
Frances 6 mnths
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Hi Marmalady
I can't relate, at the moment, to your last two replies. There appears to be so many Emes around the area, I'm sure they are all related, but at the moment I'm researching the Emes family mainly from the Shoreditch area of London. Phoebe's parents were James and Mary. They had 9 children including Phoebe. Their birth dates are from 1805 to 1821.
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In 1851, there is a Phoebe LEE married to George, living in Lambeth but born in Southwark. Born, it says, in 1822 but that could be to make her two years younger than her husband. What are the names of her brothers and sisters? I could find only one:Jane Elizabeth born 1830.
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Mr. Tibbs,
Thanks for your reply.
Jane Elizabeth is not a sister to Phoebe Amelia Emes. The last child born to James and Mary was Martha in 1821.
Phoebe appears to have disappeared after the 1841 census.
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I'm not sure Martha is one of yours - there are two James and Mary Emes/Eames christening children around the same time. One in Southwark, father a carpenter, the other in Stepney (including Martha) with father a blacksmith
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I far as I remember James Emes gave his occupation as Whitesmith at the time of his childrens baptisms.
Thanks for your reply.
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Found on the 1851
9 Trinity Place Rotherhithe
Phoebe HIDDLE (from FindMyPast transcript) b 1819 Shoreditch
William HIDDLE b 1817 sawyer Deptford
William C HIDDLE b1844 Deptford
George G HIDDLE b 1846 Rotherhithe
Although the transcript says HIDDLE I think it could read CRIDDLE
don't know if these names fit with whatever you already know.
Jo
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Martha Emes (1822) with a father James (Blacksmith) married Nicholas Cram (or Crain) 21 Sept 1843 at Limehouse St Annes, Tower Hamlets.
Ray
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James Emes widower married Elizabeth Dunn All Saints Poplar 10/9/1832
Witnesses William Smith & Jane Moore
1841 census Stevens Buildings St.Ann
James Emes 60 Smith
Elizabeth 50
Martha 20 all born in the county
1851 census 6 Stephens Buildings Stepney
James Emes 70 Smith born Westminster
Elizabeth 59 born Deal Kent
Charles Brittain 3 Grandson born Bow
1861 census St.Margarets Quay? Deal
Robert Spice 61
Sarah 60
Elizabeth Ems 70 born Deal
William S Fletcher 4 Grandson.
Jennifer
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Hi Jennifer
Thanks for your reply. Someone else on RC gave me the 2nd marriage of James Emes to Elizabeth Dunn, I'm sure this is my James, although I had no idea he remarried. If this is so then James married just three months after his first wife died. Elizabeth, I understand, was a spinster at the time of marriage to James. Would appear that Elizabeth went back to Kent after James died sometime between 1851/61
Ray, I do also think this marriage for Martha Emes to Nicholas Crain is correct, thank you.
Thanks to all for your replies.
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Who did the grandson in 1861 census belong to?
Jennifer
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Hi Jennifer
I've no idea who William S Fletcher in 1861 census belongs to, anymore than the grandson listed with James and Elizabeth, Charles Brittain in 1851 census.
Thanks.
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We still haven't found Phoebe. Could we know the names of the rest of her brothers and sisters?
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Charles Brittain could be the son of Eliza born 1803 in Walthamstow. Is she one of Phoebe's sisters?
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Charles should be the son of one of James Emes daughters, can we have their names and see if we can find marriages for them.
Jennifer
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also can we confirm whether the interest is in the family of James Emes the smith, or James Emes the carpenter. A lot of what is posted is related to the former, whilst Phoebe Amelia who started this is daughter of the latter.
I think William Fletcher may be from the Spice family that Elizabeth Emes is with - there's a birth of a child in 1857 with middle name as query Price on FreeBMD (Ancestry) but the image ie SPice, which fits the middle initial
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Possible siblings for phoebe - baptised St.Saviours 29/1/1815
James John Emes born 19/9/1811
Samuel Monkland Richard Emes born 22/1/1813
Parents James and Mary occupation carpenter
Address St.Thomas.
This will depend on which father you are following?
Jennifer
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Samuel Monkland Richard Emes born 22/1/1813
Parents James and Mary occupation carpenter Address St.Thomas.
This will depend on which father you are following?
7 Nov 1842 St Mary Lambeth
Samuel Markland Richard Emes f/a occ groom
father James John dec’d occ Carpenter
Sarah Murlis f/a father William dec’d occ couch trimmer
Both single, both signed wits Henry Douthwaite (x) & Margaret Norton
1851c HO107; Piece: 1479; Folio: 164; Page: 13
Samuel 37 Southwark, Sarah 33 Bath Somerset,
Susan Esther 8, Elizabeth 6, Sarah EMES, St John’s Westm.
death
Samuel Markland Richard Emes Sep 1854 St Margaret Westminster
can we confirm whether the interest is in the family of
James Emes the smith, or
James Emes the carpenter.
A lot of what is posted is related to the former,
whilst Phoebe Amelia who started this
is daughter of the latter.
I think William Fletcher may be from the Spice family that Elizabeth Emes is with -
there's a birth of a child in 1857 with middle name as query Price on FreeBMD (Ancestry) but
the image ie SPice, which fits the middle initial
7th Apr 1880 All Saints Walworth
William SPICE Fletcher age 23 waiter f Richard Robert Fletcher Dec’d occ Publican
Lavinia Duff age 20 f Charles Joseph oc. Optician
Wits. Frank Wright & Ada Amelia Wright
both 63 Mann St., both single, both signed
1871 census RG10; Piece: 1008; Folio: 65; Page: 29
Robert Spice Head wid'r 76 Dover Retired Publican
Elizabeth EMES sister widow 81 Deal housekeeper
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Hi to Mabel Bagshaw, Jennifer C, Mr Tibbs and Ladyhawk
Thank you all for the interest and help into my query.
From your replies I can confirm that James Emes was a carpenter, something I didn't know, so thanks.
The children of James Emes and wife Mary were Mary Ann b 1805, Henrietta Sarah b 1807, John James b 1808, James John b 1811 Samuel Monkland Richard b 1813, Ann Mary b 1813 Catherine b 1816, Phoebe Amelia b 1819 and Martha b 1821.
I have a marriage for Mary Ann to John Brainthwait 1823, Henrietta Sarah to John Thomas 1825, James John to Elizabeth Mepham 1836, Samuel Monkland Richard to Sarah Murlis 1842, Ann Mary no marriage found, Catherine to John James Vanloo 1836, Phoebe Amelia no marriage found and Martha no marriage found.
Apart from the census details already given by yourselves I haven't found others.
Any help for these would be wonderful.
Many thanks
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From your replies I can confirm that James Emes was a carpenter,
something I didn't know, so thanks.
The children of James Emes and wife Mary
Mary Ann b 1805,
Henrietta Sarah b 1807,
John James b 1808,
James John b 1811
Samuel Monkland Richard b 1813,
Ann Mary b 1813
Catherine b 1816,
Phoebe Amelia b 1819 and
Martha b 1821.
I have a marriage for
Mary Ann to John Brainthwait 1823,
Henrietta Sarah to John Thomas 1825,
James John to Elizabeth Mepham 1836,
Samuel Monkland Richard to Sarah Murlis 1842,
Ann Mary no marriage found,
Catherine to John James Vanloo 1836,
Phoebe Amelia no marriage found and
Martha no marriage found.
Apart from the census details already given by yourselves I haven't found others.
Any help for these would be wonderful.
This looks to be Henrietta on the census
Witnesses to Henrietta's marriage 13 Jan 1828 St George in the East
Were James & Mary Emes
1841 HO107; P 696; B 11; CP St George Middlesex EDist: 12; F10; P12
John Thomas 35 Waterman
Sarah 30
Lucy 14
Henrietta 12
Elizabeth 43
1851 HO107; Piece: 1548; Folio: 540; Page: 63
1a Cromwall St St George in the East
John Thomas 45 Limehouse Middx occ. Lighterman
Henrietta 44 Bow
Henrietta Radcliff Middx
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Not the easiest family to follow. Here are a few snippets:
Catherine Emes b 1816 baptised 4 Aug 1816 St. George the Martyr's, Southwark
Phoebe Amelia Emes b 22 Oct 1819 bap. 4 Jan 1824 St. Saviour, Southwark
James John Emes b 10 Sept 1811 bap. 29 Jan 1815 St. Saviour, Southwark
Samuel Markland Richard Emes b 22 Jan 1813 bap. 29 Jan 1815 St. Saviour, Southwark
John James Emes, son of John James/Elizabeth bap. 23 June 1839 Bermondsey
James John Emes, " " " bap. 25 July 1841 Bermondsey
1841 HO107/697/8 pg 25 St. George, Middlesex, St. Paul District 19
James Emes 30 painter and glazier Possible James John b 1811
HO107/697/8 pg 25 St. George, Middlesex, St. Paul District 17
John Vanloo 25
Catherine Vanloo nee Emes 20 all difficult to read, living with others
Martha 1
1851 HO107/1562 pg 29 Surrey, Bermondsy, Leathermarket Dis. 3
James Emes 43 House painter b St. Saviour
Mary Emes 53 (wife) b Surrey, St. John's
HO107/1548 pg 1 Middlesex, St. George in the East. St. Paul Dis. 19
Catherine Vanloo 38 widow washerwoman and mangler b Poplar Middlesex
Martha 11 b St. George in the East
Henry 9 b " "
Rosina C (Rose) 3 b " "
HO107/1479 pg 13 Middlesex, Westminster, St. John the Evangelist District 5
Samuel Emes 37 b St. George in the East gelder
Sarah (wife) 38 B Bath, Somerset
Susan Esther 8 b Westminster, St. John's
Elizabeth 6 b " "
Sarah under 1 m b " "
Hope this helps
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Ladyhawk and Mr. Tibbs
Thank you both for your replies. They have all been a great help to my research.
Also thanks to everyone who replied.
Best wishes