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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Kent => Topic started by: Smokey807 on Wednesday 30 October 13 13:46 GMT (UK)
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Im a member of the Tunbridge Wells Family History Society and my inquiry is for the purpose of trying to help a decendent of the family with her questions and from my own research the family appears interesting enough to write a short article about so I hope someone can answer a few unresolved issues.
From using Ancestry.UK here is the family unit of interest;
(1) Alfred Kennard Baldwin (1839-1915)-head of family
(2) Mary Nicks(1836-1897)- wife of (1) -had the children with A.K.B. listed below
(3) Emma Baldwin,nee Buttler -second wife of (1)-no children with her
No information needed about (1) (2)and (3) but need some help with SOME of the children listed below; Here is a list of all known children of A.K.B and Mary;
(1) Alfred George Baldwin (1863-1943) no information needed
(2) Charles Baldwin (1862-1935)- no information needed
(3) Annie Baldwin; born 1862-1864 Wathcet,Somerset. Last information is 1881 census Tunbridge Wells where she is age 19,single, living with parents and siblings, a scholar. Nothing found for her after 1881. Looking for marriage/children/death info
(4) William James Baldwin born 1866 Watchet,Somerset. Last entry is 1871 census at Watchet St Deuman,Somerset where he is ,age 5, scholar, living with parents and siblings.Need census/marriage/children/death info after 1871
(5) Elizabeth P Baldwin,born 1868 St Decuman,somerset. Not found in 1871 census .Need census/marriage/children/death after 1871
(6) Herbert Baldwin,born 1870 at Watchet St Deuman,Somerset. Last found in 1881 census,at Tunbridge Wells,Kent with parents and siblings,age 11,scholar.Need census.marriage.children/death info after 1881
(7) Mary Baldwin,born 1872 Willeton.Somerset.Last entry is 1881 census at Tunbridge Wells where she is living with parents/siblings .scholar. Need census/marriage/children/death info after 1881
(8) Henry James Baldwin-No information needed
(9) Ellen Baldwin, born 1874 Southborough,Kent(Tunbridge Wells). In 1911 census,age 36,single, living with parents and sister Alice. Need marriage/children/death info for Ellen after 1911
(10) Frederick James Baldwin(1876-1946)-No information needed
(11) Alice E. Baldwin,born 1880 Tunbridge Wells.Last record is 1911 census at Tunbridge Wells where she is age 31,single.Need marriage/children.death info after 1911.
Alfred Kennard Baldwin founded in 1876 his printer/stationers business in Tunbridge Wells called the Grosvenor Printing Works and printed books and other publications. He passed the business along to his son Charles (1862-1835) who in turn passed the business to his son Herbert and moved to Sussex. The Tunbridge Wells Civic Society notes that Alfred Kennard Baldwin also got involved organizing trips which evolved into what is now the Baldwin Travel Agency in Tunbridge Wells. This agency came into the Marks family in 1991. Not sure yet who had it before him but I have sent an email to Ron Marks to find out.The first directory listing for a Baldwin Travel Agent in Tunbridge Wells that I could find was 1958. If anyone has information on the history of the Baldwin Travel Agency in terms of what Baldwin family members were involved in the business please let me know. The family member I am assisting would like more information on the business history of this family and so would I. None of the children of Alfred Kennard Baldwin that I DO NOT NEED INFORMATION for went into the travel business as I have their career information.His son Charles (1862-1935) only seems to be mentioned as a printer/stationer but perhaps he was also a travel agent (nothing found yet to confirm this) that he continued from his father. The Baldwin Travel Agency today has the same address that Balwins printing/stationers business had until 1952 (25-27 Grosevenor Rd).It appears that due to the absence of directories for Baldwins Printers after 1952 that the printer business ended about that time and perhaps at that time evolved into a Travel Agents solely.
With all the detail above I hope with your assistance I can get some clarification of the children's genealogical info and what career they went into and perhaps a little more about the printer/travel agent business the family was involved with.
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No 9
Ellen on deceased online
Ellen Baldwin
burial 19 September 1949
Tunbridge Wells Cemetery
age 75
Probate details are available on Ancestry for her ;)
Ellen Baldwin (Spinster) of 14 Dorking Road, Tunbridge Wells probate to Herbert William Baldwin printer
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Have you checked deceased online for all of the deaths
Rosie
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(3) Annie Baldwin; born 1862-1864 Wathcet,Somerset. Last information is 1881 census Tunbridge Wells where she is age 19,single, living with parents and siblings, a scholar. Nothing found for her after 1881. Looking for marriage/children/death info
Her likely birth reg is Jun qtr 1864 Williton (the registration district covering Watchet).
Most promising marriage from FreeBMD is Mar qtr 1889 Tonbridge to Frank Overy Turner (later censuses show that the other two on the page married each other). Frank, born Dec qtr 1864 Langton Green, Kent, worked as a grocer & draper.
Frank and Annie (27 b Watchet) are in Langton Green, childless, in 1891: RG12/676/54/28.
Then there's the death of Annie Turner aged 31 in Tonbridge (covers Langton Green), Jun qtr 1895. Her intestate estate was administered by her widower Frank Overy Turner; effects were £288 14s. The probate calendar shows that she died at Langton Green on 17 April 1895. (A baby Cyril Turner was born and died in the same district, same quarter - possibly connected or possibly not).
Then Frank Overy Turner remarried to Ellen Mary Holder in Steyning, Dec qtr 1899 and they had five children together.
In 1916 Frank Overy Turner was one of the executors granted probate of the will of Alfred [Kennard] Baldwin.
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No 11
Alice Elizabeth also died 16 January 1951 a spinster address on probate same as Ellens. Details are on Anc. I assume from your post that you have access to view this.
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No 7
A Possible death for Mary
Mary Baldwin
March qtr 1951
Age at Death 80
Tonbridge 5b / 1371
It looks like her burial is also on deceased online at http://www.deceasedonline.com/ at Tunbridge Wells Cemetery
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(5) Elizabeth P Baldwin,born 1868 St Decuman,somerset. Not found in 1871 census .Need census/marriage/children/death after 1871
What evidence is there of Elizabeth's existence? As you say, she's not with the family in 1871 (or any other census) and I can't see a birth registration for her in Williton district.
In any event the 1868 date for Elizabeth seems unlikely as the family appears to have registered Charles' birth in Mar qtr 1868. I know you've said you don't need info on him but the 1862 birthdate you have can't be right - he was 3 in 1871, 13 in 1881, 23 in 1901.
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Thank you for the quick and thorough replies. I has narrowed down the list quite a bit and I can take what you have given and go further with my own research. Just a couple of people left on the list I need some help with.
Just to answer a few of your questions. Yes I have access to deceased online but only so far as getting a burial date and not the age of the person at time of death and so because there are often several people of the same name I cant always determine which record applies to the person I am looking for. But I can now follow up on the ones you have given more details on and check the website again. I usually try to find a probate record with exact date of death and then look on deceased online for a match with a burial date.
For Charles Baldwin who I said was born in 1862. You are quite right he was actually born January 8,1868 in Somerset. Sorry for the typo error.
Regarding Elizabeth P Baldwin my only source for this information is from a family tree on Ancesty who listed her as one of the children of Alfred Kennard Baldwin. Perhaps as you suggest she was not a child of his but I thought that perhaps there was a chance she may have died as an infant before the census was taken. So if as you say there is no birth record for her then am I safe to say she does not exist and the family tree info was incorrect?
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FreeBMD and the censuses show no sign of Elizabeth at all so, unless the tree owner can explain who she was, I'd think you should proceed on the basis that there was no such family member.
Incidentally the dates for some of the other children are also inaccurate.
1. Alfred George (1863-1943): actually birth reg is Sep qtr 1862. Poss death Sep qtr 1939 Tonbridge.
4. William James born 1866: actually birth reg is Dec qtr 1865.
6. Herbert born 1870: actually birth reg is Sep qtr 1869.
7. Mary born 1872: actually birth reg is Jun qtr 1871.
all in Williton registration district (FreeBMD).
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Herbert appears to be returning to Southampton on his own from Durban 17 December 1923 on the 'Windsor Castle'
Embarkation Algoa Bay
Proposed address in UK c/o C Baldwin Printer Tunbridge Wells occ Postmaster age 54
Country of last residence South Africa
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The child you have as
8. Henry James Baldwin
appears to me in fact to be Henry Simons Baldwin, birth reg Mar qtr 1873 Tonbridge.
Simons was his mother's maiden name (Henry Kennard Baldwin m Mary Nicks Simons, Mar qtr 1861 Williton).
I have seen that in 1881 he is enumerated as Henry James Baldwin but I think that is an error by the enumerator. I have also seen that there are other people with similar names in Kent who may confuse matters.
In 1891 he is still with parents as Henry S Baldwin. He marries Laura Marina Blowey in West Ashford in Sep qtr 1898; they're childless in 1901 when he gives his birthplace as Southborough. He probably dies in Ashford, Sep qtr 1950.
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Birthdates for the youngest children:
10. Frederick James (1876-1946): birth reg is Dec qtr 1875 Tonbridge.
11. Alice E. born 1880: birth reg (as Alice Elizabeth) is Sep qtr 1879 Tonbridge.
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I only asked about deceased online as I knew that one of the first areas they put on was Tonbridge/Tunbridge Wells. I tried there first for a burial then went to GRO indexes for a match to see if the age was right. :)
William James Baldwin
Freebmd have a death in June qtr 1875 for a child of this name age 9 registered in Tonbridge 2a 334
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(5) Elizabeth P Baldwin,born 1868 St Decuman,somerset. Not found in 1871 census .Need census/marriage/children/death after 1871
What evidence is there of Elizabeth's existence? As you say, she's not with the family in 1871 (or any other census) and I can't see a birth registration for her in Williton district.
In any event the 1868 date for Elizabeth seems unlikely as the family appears to have registered Charles' birth in Mar qtr 1868. I know you've said you don't need info on him but the 1862 birthdate you have can't be right - he was 3 in 1871, 13 in 1881, 23 in 1901.
She is on the 1881 with the family but is listed at the end as age 13 bn Tunbridge Wells - relationship to head of household is Servant :-\
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Ah yes - didn't spot the servant from 1881.
Her surname is indeed dittoed from that of the family. However, it looks as though the only Elizabeth P born in the district at about the right time is Elizabeth Philidelphia [sic] BELL, Jun qtr 1867.
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I think that you are right about her being Elizabeth Bell, she is certainly not evident with that name in 1881 but I can see probabilities for her in the 1871 & 1891 census.
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Mary is a shopwoman at a drapers in Luton in 1891 and back home in 1901
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Herbert appears to be returning to Southampton on his own from Durban 17 December 1923 on the 'Windsor Castle'
Embarkation Algoa Bay
Proposed address in UK c/o C Baldwin Printer Tunbridge Wells occ Postmaster age 54
Country of last residence South Africa
Another journey-
He comes back into Southampton from Mombassa 31 March 1934 on Llangibby Castle age 64 on his own again occ Govt Pensioner returning to T Wells
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I'm looking for information on my great-grandfather Frederick James Baldwin and his son, my grandfather Frederick David Baldwin. F D Baldwin was born in Tunbridge Wells on 22/1/1902, father Frederick James Baldwin (Printer), mother Agnes Amy Baldwin (formerly Jones), Machinist. The address given on the Registration of Birth is Harthview, Stephens Road, Tunbridge Wells.
The family emigrated to Australia, I don't know when, but Frederick David Baldwin married my grandmother Alice Ethel Boyle in Perth on 16th January 1922, aged 20 years. Alice Ethel Boyle's maiden name was Donohoe (she'd already been married & divorced by 19 - not bad!!). My mother, Renee May Baldwin was born in Perth on 5/2/1922.
Smokey 807's original post in October 2013 says "no information" needed about Frederick James Baldwin. Could you, or anyone else, help me by filling in some blanks.
I'm totally new to this, so many thanks for any help/info.
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To Foxglove 54
What specific information do you want. I might be able to help you. Based on my research ,and assistance from others who replied to my initial inquiry, I have written an article about the family with an emphasis on their activities in Tunbridge Wells Kent and although not all the information I collected on the family appears in that article I still have my research notes.
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To Smokey807
I am interested to know more about Frederick James Baldwin, when he left for Australia and where in Australia he was when he died in 1946 - I assume Perth? Neither do I know if his son, Frederick David Baldwin had any siblings - my mother never mentioned any.
I would also be interested to learn more about Alfred Kennard Baldwin and his roots if you have this information. I'm new to all this and am just beginning my own research. Thanks for any help you can give.
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To Foxglove 54
Ok I will take a look through my article and research notes and pass along any information I have. Since it is doubtful I did much if any research on the lives of the family during their time in Australia I will do some digging to fill out the story. Im in the middle of something else at the moment but I will get back to you in the next few days.
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To Smokey807
Thanks so much for anything you manage to turn up.
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To Foxglove 54
Here is what I can tell you. The birth of Frederick James Baldwin was registered Tonbridge Distict 4th qtr 1875. He was one of 10 children born to Alfred Kennard Baldwin (born 1839 Tunbirdge Wells; died November 28,1915 Tunbridge Wells) and his wife Mary Nicks (born 1836 Williton,Somerset and died 2nd qtr 1897 in Tunbridge Wells.).As you will perhaps know Alfred Kennard Baldwin ran a successful printing (Grosvenor Printing Works) and later Baldwins Travel business. When he retired/died one of his sons continued the business.
The 1881 census, taken at 43 Grosvenor Rd,Tunbridge Wells listed Frederick James Baldwin living with his parents and six siblings. His father at that time was a printer employing 5 men and 5 boys. Frederick James Baldwin left the family home sometime before the 1891 census for he is absent from the census of his father at 43 Grosvenor Rd.
A marriage record gave Frederick James Baldwin to Agnes Amy Jones (1878-1961). Agnes was born June 14,1878 at Burton Upon Trent,Staffordshire and died November 20,1961 at Perth,Australia.The marriage was registered in the 4th qtr 1900 in Tunbridge Wells (Ref. Vol 2a, page 1496).You can order the marriage certificate from this information.
The 1901 census taken at 46 Prospect Road in Southborough, Kent (just north of Tunbridge Wells) listed Frederick James Baldwin,age 25, a printer machine minder worker. Living with him was his wife Anges A Baldwin,age 23, born 1878 Staffordshire. They have no children at this time. The house at 46 Prospect Rd still exists and is a 2 sty red brick semi detached residence located on the west side of Prospect Rd between Woolley Rd on the south and Meadow Rd on the north.Its a modest but nice looking Victorian era home, much nicer than many other homes (a middle class residence).
I have a record of two Baldwin births , being the only two children I am aware of (1) Frederick David Baldwin ;birth reg. 1st atr 1902 Tonbridge Vol 2a page 762 (2) Claude Kennard Baldwin; birth reg. 2nd qtr 1905 Tonbridge Vol 2a page 817.
I find no other records for Frederick and his wife and children in England after 1905 and they are not in the 1911 census, indicating that the family emigrated to Australia sometime between 1905 and 1911.
From the obituary of Fredericks father in 1915 it is stated that Frederick Charles Baldwin of Western Australia send a wreath to the funeral.
From Australian Electoral Rolls I have Frederic Charles Baldwin from 1916 to 1937 at Fremantle.A family tree records he was living 1916 to 1936 at Claremont Fremantle and that in 1916 he was a civil servant. The same tree says he died 1946 in Perth.WA.
His son Claude Kennard Baldwin was born March 14,1905 in Tunbridge Wells. In 1931 he was living at Claremont Freemantle; in 1937 at Nedlands,Perth; in 1943 at Geraldton,Kalgoorlie WA; in 1949 at South Fremantle WA. He married Winifred Clara Adams (1908-1987) and they had a son Fredrick William Baldwin (1934-2007). Claude died June 14,1983 at Bullcreek, WA.
I found a passenger list for F.J. Baldwin born 1875 who departed August 21,1926 from London with a destination of Freemantle on the ship ORSOWA. He gave his address in the Uk as the Grosvenor Printing Works,Tunbridge Wells. Travelled 3rd class .He was given as a civil servant, age 51 and that his home was in Australia. Travelling with him was his wife Mrs A.A. Baldwin, housewife,age 48.
The last record I have is electoral records for Frederick David Baldwin. In 1931 district of Swan,WA; 1936-1937 district of Kilgoorlie WA; 1943 Victoria, district of Fawkner.
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To Smokey807
I'm very grateful for all of that information and in awe of your genealogical abilities. Here's hoping I'll be able to do that some day with the help of the U3A group I'm about to join!
From what you write it appears that Frederick James became listed as Frederick Charles in the Australian records. I had no idea that my grandfather, his son, Frederick David, had a brother. My mother never mentioned him or any of the history you have given me.
I will now research various Birth Certificates as you suggest.
Thank you so much for sharing your research, I am very grateful.
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To Foxglove 54
There is a typo error in my previous email which led you believe that Frederick James Baldwin changed his name to Frederick Charles Baldwin. He did not change his name. All references I gave from 1915 onwards to Frederick Charles Baldwin were meant to be Frederick James Baldwin. Sorry for not catching the typo before sending my reply.
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I am the great grand daughter of Herbert if anyone is still looking for information? He emigrated to South Africa and married in Cape Town in 1902.
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I realise this is a very old chat, but if any further information has been found on the Baldwins Travel Agency, which was formerly the Grosvenor Printing Works set up by Alfred Kennard Baldwin in 1876 it would be great to hear. My main interest is the printing works company itself, and any knowledge or records that may be obtained from it.