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Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: gaygirl on Sunday 27 October 13 23:52 GMT (UK)
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I am searching for the arrival of William Frederick Hobbs in NZ.
He was born in 1831 in Eastbourne Sussex and married in New Zealand in 1867 so perhaps he arrived a few years before he married.
Any help would be great as I have searched but cant find anything - thanks.
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Hello,
There is an obituary for William Frederick Hobbs in 'The New Zealand Herald', dated 6.8.1923. According to this he arrived in New Zealand in 1848.
From "Papers Past" website.
NZ BDM index shows his age at death as 92 years. Recorded here as William Fredrick.
Minniehaha.
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In another obituary, to be found in the 'Evening Post' dated 6.8.1923, some of his immediate family are named...............
Again from the "Papers Past" website.
Minniehaha.
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Hello Gay...
Just following on from the obituary mentioned in Minnie's post...
Archives NZ in Wellington has an alphabetical War Medal Card Index in the Reading Room. If your man came under fire in the Maori Wars he may be listed in the Index. If not that one then maybe the General Biographical Card Index, also in the Reading Room.
Finding him in either index may lead to a regiment or service record which might give a few more clues.
Maybe start a new thread asking for a Wellington Archives look-up.
Regards
Beg
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Hi Gaygirl,
Don't bother, I'll have a look for him in those indexes on my nek (;)) visit.
Spades
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Red post but going to post anyway ;D
Here you go then Spades ;D Note this one says born 1848
War Graves
Name : HOBBS William Frederick
War : Historic/Maori Wars
Cemetery : Palmerston North
Source Reference : Archives Ref 1A Series 76/16-18
Died : 6 Aug 1923
Age : 75
Born : 1848
Further enquiries to Archives NZ - Wellington
Cheers
KHP
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Hi KHP,
The age and year of birth would appear to be at odds with that found in the BDM index and obituary?
Minniehaha.
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I have checked the census and he last appears in the 1851 UK census so it is hard to be sure of dates if it is saying he arrived in NZ in 1848.
He would have been buried in CHB as he died in Onga Onga so the other burial will not be correct.
Thanks Gay
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It looks like he died in Palmerston North ans was buried in the Waipawa cemetery
Age 92 years
Date Deceased 2/08/1923
http://cemeteries.chbdc.govt.nz/
His wife Alice Teresa died aged 47 years 10/05/1897
Cheers Janette
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Hi KHP,
The age and year of birth would appear to be at odds with that found in the BDM index and obituary?
Minniehaha.
Probably a transcription error.
Cheers
KHP
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Hi Gay,
Just to double check.........
Have you had a look at the obituary which gives the names of his daughters? (See my post above.) Do we have the correct family?
Minniehaha.
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This is a list of their 16 chidren from BDM's
1868/19403 Hobbs Mary Jane / Alice Theresa /William Frederick
1869/20491 Hobbs Frances Alice / Alice Theresa/ William
1871/22119 Hobbs Frederick William / Alice Tresor /William
1872/22656 Hobbs Annie Adelia /Alice Treser/ William
1873/39190 Hobbs Ellen Theresa / Alice Theresa /William
1875/1548 Hobbs Ada /Alice Treser/ Frederick William
1876/16400 Hobbs Phoebe /Alice Teresa/ Frederick William
1878/14691 Hobbs Ethel May Alice Treser William
1879/18568 Hobbs Rodie /Alice Treser/ William
1881/3384 Hobbs Henry Alfred /Alice Treser /William
1883/2984 Hobbs Elizabeth Angies /Alice Teresa/ William
1884/18065 Hobbs Albert Percival /Alice Theresa/ William
1885/11831 Hobbs Oxevel /Alice Theresa/ William
1886/14747 Hobbs Lucy Maud / Alice Teresa /William
1888/18178 Hobbs Emily Amelia /Alice Teresa/ William
1891/14339 Hobbs Florence Eva /Alice Teresa/ William
Several of these children died in infancy and are buried in the Waipawa cemetery
Cheers Janette
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Hi there,
That is the correct family - the first born Mary Jane is my husbands grandmother.
I knew they had a big family and perhaps William was staying with family in Palmerston North when he died as he would have been an elderly man and by himself.
I havent looked at the obituary - is it in Papers Past.?
Gay
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Sure is........
See replies #1 & #2
Minniehaha.
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In another obituary, to be found in the 'Evening Post' dated 6.8.1923, some of his immediate family are named...............
Again from the "Papers Past" website.
Minniehaha.
You will find that here
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0wn9/
Cheers Janette
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Hi
I looked on Papers past
Those obituaries cant be the right person as I met at least three of his daughters in 1965 at our
wedding and they mention one son living in the notices in 1923.
Gay
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Perhaps this is him arriving in 1848 or for elimination.
From the disc Discharged in New Zealand.
The name of the ship will need to be double checked
58th (RUTLANDSHIRE) REGIMENT
Regimental Number: 1044
Rank: CS (as at discharge) Colour Sergeant
Surname: Hobbs
First Name : William
Birthplace: Cerne
Trade (On Enlistment) : Butcher
Date of Enlistment : 21 January 1839
Place of Discharge: Auckland
Date of Discharge : 30 September 1848
Type of Discharge : $ = Discharged on Payment
Ship : PBBE
PB = PESTONJEE BOMANJEE and BE = BEE
Cheers
KHP
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It is the only one I can see for arriving here in 1848.
Cheers
KHP
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I am searching for the arrival of William Frederick Hobbs in NZ.
He was born in 1831 in Eastbourne Sussex
I have checked the census and he last appears in the 1851 UK census
Could you please give us the details of the 1851 census you have found him on in the UK
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oK HERE GOES,
1851 CENSUS FRAMFIELD SUSSEX
Bentley Farm Jenner thomas
Jenner Ann
Jenner ?
Jenner Ellen
HOBBS HENRY 22 Ag. Labourer
HOBBS WILLIAM 17 Ag. Labourer
He does have an elder brother named Henry so that is what makes me think this is the right William. He was born Framfield so it all ties up.
I see where his age would mean he was born 1834 if those numbers are correct.
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1851 CENSUS FRAMFIELD SUSSEX
Bentley Farm Jenner thomas
Jenner Ann
Jenner ?
Jenner Ellen
HOBBS HENRY 22 Ag. Labourer
HOBBS WILLIAM 17 Ag. Labourer
He does have an elder brother named Henry so that is what makes me think this is the right William. He was born Framfield so it all ties up.
I see where his age would mean he was born 1834 if those numbers are correct.
Thank you
This looks to be the brothers with their parents & siblings living Framfield Sussex in 1841
HO107; P1116; Book: 2; Framfield Sussex; E D 1; F 5; P : 2
Weaver’s Cottage
Henry Hobbs 35 Labourer
Eliza 30
HENRY 14
Eliza 12
WILLIAM 9
Mark 7
Mary 5
Susan 3
Frances 1
Sophia 1 mth
All born in this county
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Thanks KHP, for finding that reference in Discharged in New Zealand. That looks like him.
There is no mention of him in New Zealand Medal to Colonials. Detailed medal rolls of officers and men in colonial units who received the New Zealand Medal for service in the New Zealand Wars 1845-1872. (10th ed.) .
I have been hunting through Archway using the references provided above but can't find any record of him so far.
Spades
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Throwing this one into the mix as well :)
Victoria Outwards to NZ - Passenger Record
Name : HOBBS William
Number : 5948
Age : 33
Sex : M
Status : S
Occupation : Laborer (not my spelling, been transcribed like that) :D
Country : ENG
Ship : CITY OF HOBART
Port of Departure : Melbourne
Date of Departure : 15 Mar 1862
Port of Arrival : Otago
Source : PROV VPRS 948
LDS Film : 0284489
Cheers
KHP
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Have followed Henry & William Hobbs' parents Henry & Eliza through the censuses just to see if that leads anywhere
1851 Henry 41 Framfield & Eliza 42 Ettothly Sussex still Weaver Hill Framfield with children
Benjamin 21 Ringmer Sussex, Mark 15, Susan 12, Fanny 10, Sophia 8 Esther Hobbs 3
All others born Framfield
1861/1871 census only daughter Esther at home with parents she’s married surname Kidd
1861/1871 census son Henry (Harry) born c1827 Framfield married to Elizabeth
1881 census son Henry born c1827 widowed is back with his parents Henry & Eliza
his occ Ag lab.
Looks as if father Henry died age 78 Uckfield Sussex in Sep 1882
Going to see if I can now follow their son William Hobbs born c 1832 Framfield Sussex occ Ag. labourer
Not that this helps but here’s a basic pedigree chart on familysearch - no details of who William married to confirm that this is the correct William Frederick Hobbs :(
William Hobbs christened 1 March 1835 Framfield Sussex
parents Henry Hobbs & Eliza Farrant
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.2.1/9CWM-K35?view=details
Do you have access to his 1867 marriage certificate to confirm his age, his father's name, their occupations?
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I dont have his marriage cert. but I could order from NZ - I am in Aussie.
It would give me some answers.
Gay
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I dont have his marriage cert. but I could order from NZ - I am in Aussie
It would give me some answers.
Hopefully it would
for info. you would need to verify or perhaps you could contact persons direct
there are a couple on online trees on Anc*y
gives their marriage date 15 May 1867 Waipouamate NewZealand
gives Alice born 1851 NZ parents as George Bright & Mary Jane Florance
William b1831 d1923 NO mention of his parents but they gave a dob 19 Nov 1831
pob given as Hawkes Bay NZ ???
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Hi,
If ordering from NZ BDM (www.bdm.govt.nz) ensure that you ask for a printout. Cheaper and in some instances may contain more information.
Also ensure before ordering that you have a look on the website for "data collected"; in this case for marriages. This varies depending on the year of interest.
Minniehaha.
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Good morning Gay,
Your response to Janette's reply #11 wherein you acknowledged that the Hobbs' births listed was "the correct family", and your reply #15 stating that the obituary "can't be the right person", leaves me a tad confused..........
Using the birth names provided by Janette and the married names of the daughters in the obituary for William Frederick Hobbs, we have the following:
Frances Alice married James Williams, 1887
Mary Jane married Henry David Limbrick, 1894
Rhoda married John Joseph Cosgrove, 1903. Birth registered as Rodie.
Phoebe married Joseph Henry Cronin, 1908
Emily Amelia married Joseph Augustus Tannion, 1913
Elizabeth married Mark Walker, 1910
Ethel Mary married Charles Alfred Fargher, 1902.
Minniehaha.
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I have ordered a printout of the marriage cert.
It still cost $26 but at least it will clear up a few questions.
I'll post the details when the certificate arrives.
Gay
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Unfortunately an early marriage printout doesn't have very much information,you can expect to find the following up until 1880
From 1854 – Marriage Act 1854 (Dated 1 January 1855)
Bride and Groom
When and where married
Name and Surname
Age
Rank or profession
Condition
Name of officiating minister (or Registrar)
When registered
Signatures
Signatures of bride and groom
Signatures of the witnesses
Signature of officiating minister (or registrar)
Cheers Janette
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I was hoping for the parents names of both bride and groom so that is disappointing.
I dont think there is any other way I can find out these details. I was thinking it would be worth $26!!
Gay
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Hello again,
Just to see whether or not we are on the right track here, can you give us the married name of Mary Jane, your husband's grandmother, please?
Minniehaha.
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Mary Jane Hobbs married Henry David Limbrick.
This family starts in NZ with Thomas Kendall who arrived with Samuel Marsden in 1814 so it is a very interesting family and there is a lot of info on the net about this family.
Gay
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Gay, if you go back to the obituary I referred you to and which you said "can't be the right person", you will find that one of William Frederick Hobbs' daughters mentioned was a Mrs.H. Limbrick.........
Minniehaha.
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It always pays to check the data collected page before ordering printouts as the info varies
https://bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/dataCollected/
Cheers Janette
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Hi Gay,
Hope this helps :)
School Records (APWs)
Name :HOBBS Mary Jane
School : Onga Onga - Place as mentioned in your Reply #7
Register Number : 3
Admission Date : 31 Aug 1880
Parent / Guardian : W Hobbs
Address : Ashcott
Birthdate : 24 Apr 1868
Cheers
KHP
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1885/11831 Hobbs Oxevel /Alice Theresa/ William
Cheers Janette
Think the above should be Oswald. I see a school record for Oswald Hobbs, birthdate 12 June 1885. Onga Onga School, parent/guardian W Hobbs.
Cheers
KHP
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Hi everyone,
I think we have now finally established that the William Frederick Hobbs we are looking for, is the one who died in 1923 aged 92 years; (therefore born about 1831), having been in New Zealand for 75 years; therefore arriving about 1848..........
Minniehaha.
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Hi everyone,
I think we have now finally established that the William Frederick Hobbs we are looking for, is the one who died in 1923 aged 92 years; (therefore born about 1831), having been in New Zealand for 75 years; therefore arriving about 1848..........
Minniehaha.
Agreed Minniehaha
Gaygirl,please read all the posts carefully as we seem to have been going round in circles with regards to this being the correct family or not ;D ;D
Cheers Janette ;D
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The surviving son (Mr. F. Hobbs) mentioned in the 1923 obituary would have been Frederick William Hobbs, born 1871.
He died in 1936 aged 65 years.
There is a WW1 army file held @ Wellington Archives.
Minniehaha.
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The surviving son (Mr. F. Hobbs) mentioned in the 1923 obituary would have been
Frederick William Hobbs, born 1871.
He died in 1936 aged 65 years.
There is a WW1 army file held @ Wellington Archives.
Frederick William Hobbs occ Farm Lab.
Regimental Number: 25877 Rank L/Cpl
Relative Name: Mrs J J Cosgrave (sister ) 27 Church Street West Palmerston North
Embarkation: 1916
NZ ER's
1919 Palmerston
33 Campbell Street
Rhoda & John Joseph Cosgrove painter
1911 Waipawa Hawke’s Bay
Rhoda & John Joseph Cosgrove painter
Think this might be William & Frederick on NZ ER's
New Zealand, Electoral Rolls, 1853-1981
dates 1880-81, 85-86, 90, 96, 1900, 1905-06, 1911 Waipawa Hawke's Bay
William Hobbs Onga Onga Shepherd
William's address 1905-06 Ashcott, Onga Onga
1911 William Hobbs Retired Shepherd Waipawa,
1896/1900 Frederick William Hobbs Ashley Clinton Station hand
1905-06, 1911 Frederick William Hobbs Onga Onga labourer
1928, 1935 Frederick William Hobbs Takapau, Farm hand
and here's daughter Mary Jane
dates 1890, 96, 1900, 05-06, 1911, 1914, 1928
Henry David Limbrick Waipawa Shepherd
MARY JANE Onga Onga (1900)
MARY JANE Waipawa married (1905-06)
Henry David occ Stable Proprietor, MARY JANE (1911/14/19)
both living Kenilworth Street Waipawa (1928)
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Hi Ladyhawk
Those details are all looking good to me.
You definitely have the right family - my husband's grandmother lived in Kenilworth St. in Waipawa and he lived next door to her.
Thanks for the interesting info.
Gay
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Possibly my last contribution to this topic.......
Yesterday I could not find the marriage of Mrs. P. Bird, one of the daughters mentioned in the obituary for William Frederick Hobbs.
I now think this was Lucy Maud, born 1886. She married Peter Bell Baird in 1910.
Minniehaha.
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I received the email certificate today - what a quick turnaround compared to UK.
As was suggested I am still no further with my search as the Marriage cert. doesnt have the place of birth and time in NZ so that is probably my last chance to be sure of any details.
What would be on the first child's birth cert in 1868?
Thanks for all your help.
Gay
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Gay
if you have a look here, you will see what is on the NZ birth certificates.
https://www.bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/datacollected/birth.aspx
Better to get one of the ones from after 1875 as there should be more on it.
Ian C
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I have just remembered a letter my mother in law wrote to the Alexander Turnbull Library in 1980 when she was trying to establish a link to the early NZ settlement so that she could become a member of the Founders Society.
She received a reply stating that
"As you know the date of death of William Frederick Hobbs, I suggest that you write to the Registrar-General's Office in Lower Hutt for a death certificate. which would give you his residence in NZ and place of death. It might then be possible to trace a newspaper obituary which could name the ship and date of arrival.
Strange that 33 years later I am still trying to find the ship on which he arrived in NZ.!!
Perhaps he came by 'row boat' !!
Gay
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Hi Gaygirl,
I have struck some problems finding the file referred to by KHP in Reply #5, vis:
War Graves:
Name : HOBBS William Frederick
War : Historic/Maori Wars
Cemetery : Palmerston North
Source Reference : Archives Ref 1A Series 76/16-18
Died : 6 Aug 1923
Age : 75
Born : 1848
Further enquiries to Archives NZ - Wellington
Firstly, the correct Agency reference is not '1A' but 'IA', for Internal Affairs. Secondly, I cannot find a box '16-18'. There are several boxes listed '16-19'.
On my next visit I'll search the two card indexes mentioned earlier but otherwise I might have hit a brick wall.
Spades
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Not guilty for the transcription error. :)
It was taken from the Kiwi Index. Perhaps they should be made aware for future references, if you do find the correct one Spades.
Cheers
KHP
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Sorry, I didn't mean to imply it might be your error, KHP :-[
I realised it came from the Index.
Spades
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Lift that bottom lip up :D I know you weren't implying anything.
But it does go to show that things that you do find can quite often have mistakes in them, until you do further search.
Cheers
KHP
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I have checked the War Graves Card Index and the General Biographical Card Index for William Frederick HOBBS without success.
Spades
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58th regiment is highly likely... Alice Treesaregreen (sorry, couldn't resist) father George BRIGHT was in the 58th. As was Eleanor FLORANCE's first husband.
Rodie (later COSGROVE) lived until she was over 100.
Don't ask me any more, I just linked into this discussion wondering about the name Oxevel! (google pulled this up) thinking it might be something like Athelstan, which is forever being transcribed wrong in this family!
Central Hawkes Bay cemetery's website (link above) has fallen over, and I can't find any HOBBS on the new one. I only want to prove if Alice Theresa did or didn't die on her birthday.
Intentions to Marry would give length of time in the district, sometimes gives age, and is a great supplement to marriage registers for early NZ. National Archives, but you need someone to look it up for you in Wellington.
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Intentions to Marry would give length of time in the district, sometimes gives age, and is a great supplement to marriage registers for early NZ. National Archives, but you need someone to look it up for you in Wellington.
Spades, there is a mention on the index for Alice Theresa/Teresa Bright, 1850 British Army in NZ, could this be looked at as well?
Cheers
KHP
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Probably a reference to her father George...
"Abstract The Anglican St Paul's register has George Bright, aged 28 and a Soldier from the 58th Regiment, who died 26 November 1852 and was buried 26 November 1852.
Subjects Bright, George, d.1852; 58th Regiment
Symonds Street Cemetery "
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quote: ^^In 1843 it was decided that the 58th regiment ("The Black Cuffs) should take over garrison duties in New South Wales from the 80th which was going to Madras. The 58th provided the guards for 19 convict ships that left London and Ireland for Tasmania or Norfolk Island in 1842-45. In 1845 N.S.W. reluctantly agreed to send the 58th to N.Z. because of the unrest with the maori in the Bay of Islands. The regiment stayed in N.Z. until November 1858 when they embarked for England, the regiment was only 16 officers and 194 men strong. Over 300 officers and men had elected to settle in N.Z. During the years that the regiment was in N.Z. some detachments returned to Australia and some took their discharge before this. In 1933, after many temporary homes, the colours were finally placed in their final home, the recently (then) completed Auckland War Memorial Museum where they remain. "
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Probably a reference to her father George...
It was worth asking, turning upside another stone ;D thanks Jools.
Cheers
KHP
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oh... and the central Hawkes Bay cemetery data base has been up and running, since I last posted, so all good... but Dear GOD... 16 children in a 24 year time-space? I don't have much respect for male ancestors at that rate of impregnation...
can you imagine what it was like for the women... ???
(this rates up there as one of the most progeny I've seen over 40 years of family research!)'
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can you imagine what it was like for the women... ???
I daresay my ggrandmother did, 24 years of feeding babies.
Cheers
KHP