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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Derry (Londonderry) => Topic started by: aghadowey on Friday 25 October 13 11:58 BST (UK)
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I been trying to find what happened to this particular branch of the Ramsey/Ramsay family from Derry City and can't get any information more recent than 1882.
William Ramsey (c1836), son of Francis & Rose Ann, m.(28 June 1866 Co.Derry) Mary Jane O’Donnell. Known children:
1. Mary Jane Ramsey (29 Jan.1867, 5 Harvey St.-6 Feb.1867 Harvey St.).
2. Thomas Ramsey (29 Jan.1867, 5 Harvey St., Derry).
3. Henry Ramsey (14 Apr.1868 Harvey St.-20 May 1868, Harvey St.).
4. Rosanne Ramsey (22 June 1869 Fort Hill St., Enniskillen).
5. Mary Jane Ramsey (1 Mar.1871 Enniskillen).
6. William Ramsey (16 Aug.-16 Aug.1873, Harvey St.).
7. Anne Ramsey (16 Aug.1873 Londonderry-d.y.).
8. William Ramsey (23 July 1874 Derry).
9. John James Ramsey (21 June 1877, 7 Harvey St., Derry).
10. Anna Eliza Ramsey (21 Oct.1879 Derry).
11. Francis Ramsey (c8 July 1882 Wapping La.-18 July 1882 Wapping La.).
I've crossed out the children who died young (buried Derry City Cemetery but no sign of parents or other siblings). William was a labourer (1867) and then railway guard (1869) and could have moved away from Derry in connection with his work.
Father Francis was a railway porter and brother Thomas also worked for railway and went to Ballyshannon (Donegal) and Enniskillen (Fermanagh) before settling in Dundalk (Louth). Other known siblings were Mary Anne, Samuel, Elizabeth, Isabella, Robert (bapt. 1855 Carlisle Road Presbyterian Church).
There are lots of Ramseys in Derry (both Catholic and Protestant) and I have details on most of them. Am stuck with this particular family and would appreciate any clues.
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Hi
can you shed any light on the following Ramsey?
1901 census living with my ggrandfather John Black in Sherriffs Mountain she is aged 6 and listed as niece
1911 census she is 18 and listed as granddaughter
I know who she married but don't know who her parents are
Thanks Wow
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For reference here are links to the census records you've found-
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Londonderry/Upper_Liberties/Sherriffs_Mountain/1538803
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Londonderry/Liberties__Upper/Sheriff_s_Mountain/605026
I can't see any sign of this Lizzie Ramsey in my records but will let you know if I do come across anything on her.
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Hi,
This may be a coincidence but in 1868 a Margaret Jane Black was born to John Black and Martha Duffy in Londonderry. In 1888 Margaret Jane Black married James Ramsey in Ballyarnett Presbyterian Church, Londonderry.
Regards
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This may be a coincidence but in 1868 a Margaret Jane Black was born to John Black and Martha Duffy in Londonderry. In 1888 Margaret Jane Black married James Ramsey in Ballyarnett Presbyterian Church, Londonderry.
This John Black/Martha Duffy are the John Black/Matilda Duffy mentioned above.
In view of the above marriage for a Margaret Jane Black & James Ramsey in 1888 I offer the following as a possibility:
James Ramsey (born c1865) was a widower in 1901 with children Ethel (14), Mary (10), James (8). In 1911 the same James Ramsey mistakenly listed himself as being married 26 years with 4 children (all living) which means there was a missing child in 1901- perhaps little Lizzie?
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Londonderry/Londonderry_Urban_No__1/Creggan_Road/1530650
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Londonderry/Londonderry_Urban__1_/Artisan_Street/600747
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Yes that's definitely them thanks-if I recall Martha or Matilda Duffy married John Black in St Columb's C of Ireland-her father was a John or James Duffy(I think have it somewhere!) from Sherriffs Mountain but haven't been able to find any record of the Duffy family but I know she was listed as C of Ireland on their marriage certificate-any leads there?
tks
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Details of the family were posted on an earlier topic of yours-
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=614178
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Sorry it was Thomas Duffy and I have asked about him before!-onset of old age!
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Hi i am from Enniskillen and my family name is Ramsey, its interesting to see that the names in your family and the Occupations are very similar
My Great Grandfather was William, My Grandfather was Frances (railway Guard) the Names John George Thomas William Gordon Robert Jane Eliza Susan Violet elizabeth Deborah. At least 3 of my Uncles were employed by the railways GNR and SLNCR Frances was stationed at Manorhamilton SLNCR for some years, George was on GNR Omagh for a few years before going to Canada
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Frances Ramsey born 30 March 1874 Enniskillen & married Susan Ross, living in Manorhamilton in 1901 and 1911?
Son of William Ramsey & Catherine Elliott... yes, I have details on the family if you are interested.
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Would like to get in touch, have u anything on William Ramsey,s father Robert and is William connected to your family?
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Will check my notes & see if I've been able to connect them to either of our 2 Ramsey lines.
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Does this make sense so far?
William Ramsey (c1849? Co.Leitrim-aft.1911?), son of Robert Ramsey, m.(2 Dec.1865 Enniskillen dist.) Catherine Elliott (c1841 Fermanagh-July/Sept.1919 Enniskillen dist.), dau. of Robert Elliott.
1. William Robert Ramsey (30 Sept.1867 Enniskillen dist.)
2. John Ramsey (20 Oct.1869 Enniskillen dist.)
3. Elizabeth “Eliza” Ramsey (28 Mar.1872 Enniskillen dist.-aft. 1914) m. John Walker
4. Francis Ramsey (30 Mar.1874 Enniskillen dist.) m. Susan Ross?
5. Sarah Ramsey (2 Aug.1878 Co.Fermanagh)
6. Jane Ramsey (c1878 Co. Fermanagh)
7. George Ramsey (31 Oct.1880 Derayscobe, Fermanagh-July/Sept.1909 Enniskillen dist.).
Elizabeth “Eliza” Ramsey (28 Mar.1872 Enniskillen dist.-aft. 1914) m.(July/Sept.1896 Enniskillen dist.) John Walker (c1870 Co. Donegal-aft. 1914).
1901 Census- Market St., Enniskillen, Fermanagh: John Walker, 29, Pres., Co.Donegal, pork curer; wife Eliza Walker, 28, Pres., Co.Fermanagh; dau. Florence Walker, 3, Pres., Co. Fermanagh; son William Walker, 1, Pres., Co.Fermanagh; dau. Edith May Walker, 3 mo., Pres., Co.Fermanagh; father-in-law William Ramsey, 52, Irish Ch., Co.Leitrim, labourer; mother-in-law Catherine Ramsey, 51, Ir. Ch., Co.Fermanagh; sister-in-law Jane Ramsey, 23, Ir. Ch., Co.Fermanagh, cooke; brother-in-law George Ramsey, 20, Ir. Ch., Co.Fermanagh, port cutter.
1911 Census- Wellington Place, Enniskillen, Fermanagh (Ch. of Ire.): John Walker, 41, Donegal, pork curer; wife Elizabeth Walker, 40, Fermanagh, m.14 yrs, 7 ch/7 liv.; dau. Florrie Walker, 13, Fermanagh, scholar; son William Walker, 11, Fermanagh, scholar; dau. Edith May Walker, 10, Fermanagh, scholar; son Adam Walker, 7, Fermanagh, scholar; dau. Sarah Walker, 4, Fermanagh, scholar; son John Walker, 3, Fermanagh, scholar; dau. Eva Walker, 2 mo., Fermanagh, scholar; mother-in-law Catherine Ramsey, 70, Fermanagh, read only, married, m.47 yrs, 7 ch/6 liv.
1. Florence “Florrie” Walker (c1898 Fermanagh)
? Florence Elizabeth Jane Walker m.(1919 Enniskillen dist.) Fred Fanthorpe.
2. William Walker (c1900 Fermanagh)
3. Edith May Walker (1901 Fermanagh)
4. Adam Walker (c1904 Fermanagh)
5. Sarah Walker (11 Dec.1906 Fermanagh)
Bapt. 3 Jan.1907 Knockmanoul Methodist Church, Darling St., Enniskillen
6. John Walker (c1909 Fermanagh)
7. Eva Walker (1911)
8. George Edward Walker (27 June 1914)
Bapt. 15 July 1914 Knockmanoul Methodist Church, Darling St., Enniskillen
Francis Ramsey (30 Mar.1874 Enniskillen dist.-aft.1911) m.(c1899) Susan Ross? (c1882 Leitrim/Fermanagh-aft.1911).
1901 Census- Manorhamilton, Manorhamilton D.E.D., Leitrim (Ch. of England): Francis Ramsy, 25, Co.Fermanagh, ry porter; wife Susan Ramsy, 21, Co.Fermanagh; son George Ramsy, 10 mo., Co. Leitrim; wife sister Maggie Ross, 24, Co.Fermanagh, not married.
1911 Census- Manorhamilton Town, Leitrim (C.of I.): Francis Ramsey, 38, railway porter, Fermanagh; wife Susan Ramsey, 29, m.12yrs, 5 ch/ liv, Leitrim; son George Ramsey, 11, scholar, Leitrim; dau. Lizzie Ramsey, 9, scholar, Fermanagh; son Francis Ramsey, 7, scholar, Leitrim; son Robert Ramsey, scholar, Leitrim; son John Ramsey, 2, Leitrim.
1. George Ramsey (c1900 Leitrim)
2. Lizzie Ramsey (c1902 Fermanagh)
3. Francis Ramsey (c1904 Leitrim)
4. Robert Ramsey (c1906 Leitrim)
5. John Ramsey (c1909 Leitrim)
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All is correct i have quite a few dates Marriages, deaths and places if any help to you.
Are we related????? as i thought my Ramseys originated from Leitrim (William) but couldnt find Robert a father in Leitrim, but just across the county line from leitrim into Sligo there was ramsey activity in (St.Johns), at one time Ramsey owned 500acres in that area but court records show they lost it in late 1700's early 1800's.
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I can't get a connection yet to either of our Ramsey families from Co.Derry to yours but we do have some very old photos in an album taken in Enniskillen which we can't identify. The railway occupation link is also prevalent in one of our lines, the name Francis is common, however, both are branches are Presbyterian. There are/were lots of Ramseys in Derry (city) and they are a mixture of Presbyterian, Church of Ireland and Catholic so anything is possible.
The direct line we can trace back to a John Ramsey, shoemaker in Derry whose 2 children were Robert (born c1826) and Sarah Jane (c1828). He and wife died when the children were young and they were raised by relatives. Sarah Jane Ramsey (c1828) married a Thomas Ramsey, son of Francis Ramsey (c1811 Aghadowey-1879 Derry) whose father was a William Ramsey. I believe Sarah Jane and Thomas were related as Thomas' father was born in Aghadowey & Sarah Jane's brother was raised in Aghadowey.
I did wonder if 'Leitrim' for your William's birthplace in 1901 census is correct. Have you found him in 1911?
Will be in touch later today.
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My Ramseys are predominately Church of Ireland, i have williams death 1913, he died in the enniskillen Workhouse so i assume a pauper, his wife and son John are buried in Rossorry C of I outside enniskillen. I have to search this record of the Workhouse in Proni. I have checked the C of I records in dublin for more than half the townlands in Leitrim, so i have the other half to eliminate to ensure their was only one William Ramsey from Leitrim, their are quite a few Ramseys in Monaghan and Cavan. The Railway passed through Monaghan so its possible they moved with the building of the railway, there is a place in dublin which has some records of irish railway employees, this i have to suss out
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In our family, Ramage, there was a phase in 1830/40s when the records had them as Ramsey/Ramsay. Also one Ramsey but Ramage in 1796. I think they are the same people as the earlier and later Ramages as they lived in same place, Tamlaght Finlagan /Ballykelly/Shanreagh/Glendermott/Broharris and had same naming patterns and it may have been transcription errors? Still to look to see if a Ramsay/ey married a Ramage around that time and wills left land to a Ramsay/ey but born Ramage daughter.
Just thought that the transcription errors may have turned your Ramseys/Ramsays into Ramages and you might find some more there?
There is one Leitrim connection in that a Jane Ramage who may have been a daughter of Benjamin Ramage married a Lewis Algeo in 1787 in a place called Cherrybrooke in Co Leitrim. In 1707 a Thomas Ramsy married an Elizabeth Wilson in Ballykelly Presbyterian church.
These latter ones are from an excel file I call 'Ramage mentions' and are possible connections to my known Shanreagh ancestors. I have not got certificates. The possible 1707 marriage came from Bobby Forrest.
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Hi, I don't know if any of these bits may be helpful but I thought I'd send them for you to have a looksee.
1901 Irish census:
Annie Ramsey
age:22 Niece
Roman Catholic
born:Derry City
living with James Donaghey family
at Lecky Rd,No 4 Urban,West Ward,Derry
Kilcallan,Bondsglen,Derry
John Ramsey
age:28
born:Tyrone
Roman Catholic
living with Andrew McFarland family as servant
also living in house as servant is;
Henry Donaghey age:18
Thomas Ramsey
age:36
born:Derry
living on Francis Street,Lurgan,co Armagh
with
Lillie Ramsey wife
Cecil Ramsey son
and 3 boarders
also found a Mary Ramsey whose last residence is listed as Derry arriving in NY on 28 Nov 1892.She is age 20 travelling on ship Furnessia which departed from Moville originating in Glasgow.She appears to be travelling with a Samuel Ramsey.
There is a freeholders record for Francis Ramsey dated 11 August 1796 in Derryvullan,Lurgan,co Armagh
found a death of Mary Jane Ramsey born 1837 died 1886 Belfast
lastly 3 marriages for Rosanna/Rose Ramsey:1893 Belfast
1899 Newry
1902 Donegal
I don't know if it helps but I will look about and see if I can find anything else.Kim
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Aghadowey,
Found a death for Mary Jane Ramsey, died in Nazareth House on 26 August, 1895. Age 24 years. Born in Enniskillen.
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Thanks to lots of new online resources I have found more details on the Ramsey family of the original request, so here's an update:
William Ramsey (c1836), son of Francis & Rose Ann, m.(28 June 1866 Co.Derry) Mary Jane O’Donnell. Known children:
1. Mary Jane Ramsey (29 Jan.1867, 5 Harvey St.-6 Feb.1867 Harvey St.).
2. Thomas Ramsey (29 Jan.1867, 5 Harvey St., Derry).
3. Henry Ramsey (14 Apr.1868 Harvey St.-20 May 1868, Harvey St.).
4. Rosanne Ramsey (22 June 1869 Fort Hill St., Enniskillen). died 1871 Enniskillen dist
5. Mary Jane Ramsey (1 Mar.1871 Enniskillen). died 26 Aug.1895 Derry (thanks DoireM)
6. William Ramsey (16 Aug.-16 Aug.1873, Harvey St.).
7. Anne Ramsey (16 Aug.1873 Londonderry-d.y.).
8. William Ramsey (23 July 1874 Derry). died 1936, married Mary McGowan
9. John James Ramsey (21 June 1877, 7 Harvey St., Derry).
10. Anna Eliza Ramsey (21 Oct.1879 Derry).
11. Francis Ramsey (c8 July 1882 Wapping La.-18 July 1882 Wapping La.).
12. Francis Ramsey (30 Oct.1884 Derry-20 Oct.1916) m. Annabella Johnston
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Hello,
I'm not feeling particularly hopeful of getting a reply as this has been dormant a while but.....
My great-great grandmother was Mary Anne Shiells (born Ramsey). She married a ....... Friel and had a daughter Rose Ann Friel in 1865 in Londonderry. She then remarried to James Shiels in 1868 in Londonderry.
According to the marriage records her father was Francis Ramsey.
I am struggling to find anything else!
I know she had a daughter called Bridget Shiells in 1906, who at some point moved to England and married Leonard L W Vincent in Surrey.
Any help would be much appreciated :)
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Here’s Rose Ann’s birth cert which tells you her father was Daniel Friel, and that he was deceased by the time of her birth on 9th April 1865 in Wapping Lane, Derry.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1865/03563/2312240.pdf
There is a death that matches that in 1865, for a Daniel aged 25. You can view the original death certificate on-line on the GRONI website, using the “search registrations” option:
https://geni.nidirect.gov.uk
You will need to open an account and buy some credits. It costs £2.50 (sterling) to a view a certificate.
If I have followed your post correctly, you have said that Mary Anne had Rose Ann in 1865 and then she had Bridget in 1906, 41 years later. That doesn't seem right? Have I misunderstood?
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Elwyn,
I know.. it really doesn't make sense. I can't find birth record for Bridget... only death which states her birth and from my grandfather know she was born in Ireland and moved to England in the 1920's, and that her mother was Mary Ann Friel before marrying Shiels (which is the name given on the marriage certificate). Really struggling with the Irish side.
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I don’t see any marriage in the civil records on GRONI for Londonderry, between James Shiels and Mary Anne Friel. Have you got the details?
I looked for James & Mary Anne in the 1901 Irish census but couldn’t see them. Any idea where they were living in 1901?
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https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FGZ5-HPB
Here is the record for the marriage
I have no idea... I am wild guessing at Londonderry area as everything on documents that can be found is in that registration district
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I can clear up a few things here but need to check other things a bit more. In no particular order-
I looked for James & Mary Anne in the 1901 Irish census but couldn’t see them. Any idea where they were living in 1901?
Mary Ann, a widow, died in 1894 so no census records for either.
She married a ....... Friel and had a daughter Rose Ann Friel in 1865 in Londonderry
Makes sense as Mary's mother was called Rose Ann/Rosanna.
Mary Ann's father, Francis Ramsey, was born c1811 in Aghadowey. Ramsey cousins were visiting today and we were discussing the Derry connections ;)
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Well obviously if Mary Anne died in 1894, she wasn’t the mother of Bridget born 1906. There must be another generation in the middle there. I looked for Bridget Shiels in the 1911 Irish census. There are 19 of about the right age but none was born in Co. Derry. Without a place of birth and accurate parents names, it may be hard to trace her.
Aghadowey may know more about the family though.
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LDS show marriage (1 Sept.1868) to James Sheills & Mary Ann Freill, widow, daughter of Francis Ramsey-
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FGZ5-HP1
GRONI, however, show James Sheills to Mary Friell
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Sarahlou1994-
Is your Bridget (Shiels) Vincent the one who died in 1978 Surrey N.W. district? If so, birthdate given as 16 Apr.1906 (https://www.freebmd.org.uk).
Using this birthdate I then searched for a Bridget Shiels (or similar surname) born in Ireland and came up with this one-
Bridget Shiels born 16 Apr.1906 at Churchtamlaght, Co.L'derry to Daniel Shiels & Mary Brennan (her twin sister Mary is the entry above)-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1906/01743/1688159.pdf
Arthur born 1907 Granagh townland-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1908/01669/1664554.pdf
Now, here's where it might start getting complicated. 1911 census- looks like Mary married to ___ Ried (Reid?) with her 3 stepsons- little Arthur and 2 born in England-
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Killoquin/Granagh/130041/
Daniel Sheils died 1907 Granagh-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1907/05541/4553915.pdf
Does any of this sound like it could be your family?
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That’s the Bridget yes... sorry Mary Brennan is who’s twin?
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If you click on the links in my post you will see that Mary was Bridget's twin born before her.
Your Shiels family weren't living anywhere near Derry (city) and I can't see any connection to our Ramseys/Friels- I haven't come across any Daniel Shiels or even blacksmiths in our family.
So, what makes you think that Bridget Shiels was related to Mary Ann (Ramsey) Friel Shiels?
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My grandad (Bridget’s son) told me about it when going through some old things and found some papers/pictures
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The children of James Sheils & Mary Ann Ramsey that I know about at the moment are-
Francis Sheilds (1 Mar.1869 at 42 Long Lane) m.(1889) Elizabeth Creswell
John Shiels (26 Mar.1871 at 31 Fountain Pl.)
Margaret “Maggie” Shiels (5 Mar.1873 Fountain St.)
Robert Shiels (1 Mar.1875 Fountain St.) m.(1904) Mary Jane (Givens) McLeod
Elizabeth “Lizzie” Shiels (21 May 1877 at 35 Fountain St.)
Sarah Shiels (9 Oct.1878 at 3 Fountain St.) m.(1902) William McElroy
If your Daniel Shiels died in 1907 age 32 then he was born c1875. So, there should be a birth registration. Marriage certificate should list his father's name & occupation.
Based on location of family in 1900s this is one possibility for Daniel's birth- but makes the Derry (city) connection less likely-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1875/03117/2143042.pdf
Can you give us more details about these old 'papers/pictures'? or ask other members of the family if they know anything else to help sort this all out?
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I wish I'd copied them all
Ok so I can see the Bridget and Mary being twins born to Daniel Shiels and Mary Brennan, and I have found their marriage date (4/9/1901 Belfast) and found a marriage between Mary Shiels (widower) and James Reid for 28/10/1909.
However the 1911 census makes no sense (or maybe it's just me) as it does not have either Bridget or Mary on it who would've been 5/6 then or James Reid (and according to Mary's entry he is still alive) and I cannot find a census entry for any of those three anywhere.
i just want to try to link up the fact that Bridget got pregnant in 1926/27 and got sent over to England.
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The marriage of Daniel Shiel & Mary Brennan gives his father as William Shiel, farmer- looking less and less likely to be connect to my family in Derry City. Also my Shiels family in Derry were Presbyterian at that time, not Catholic.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1901/10315/5755103.pdf
To save others from searching here's the 1909 Reid/Shiels marriage-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1909/10031/5648872.pdf
Remember that the census return just shows the occupants of a household on one particular night. However, in 1911 Bridget is William & Jane Shiels in England-
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWHD-LGW
The above record is a transcription so contains errors. I believe William Shiels' birthplace should be Finvoy, Co. Antrim (not Fenvoy). Finvoy is in the same area as Granagh (near Ballymoney).
The more details I'm finding on your family the less and less likely it is that we've a connection.
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1891 census 16 year old Daniel Shiels with father William & others- Daniel born Stockton on Tees NOT Ireland. Birth registered there July/Sept. quarter 1874. 1881 census parents are William & Isabella and same birthplace given.
Gravestone of William Sheils, etc.-
https://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=158938331&ref=acom
So, the question now is what were those papers which said the family were from Derry, etc. Could it have been someone attempting to do a family tree but tracing the wrong people?