RootsChat.Com
General => The Common Room => The Lighter Side => Topic started by: Graham47 on Thursday 24 October 13 13:37 BST (UK)
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Is that possible I ask myself, as somebody else did in the comments section of this article.
http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/interactive/2013/oct/24/how-people-died-21st-century?commentpage=1
How can you die of old age? That's a bit like saying "died from getting lost" surely. At the end of the day (pun intended) you have to die of something specific and 'old age' is not one of them I would suggest.
I had a sister who died of a broken heart, several times. ;D
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i would regard it as they died at an elderly age with no other specific cause
So not illness, infection, accident etc --just upped n died
how else would you describe that sort of death?
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Senectus=Old Age. The use of the term old age or any of its euphemisms does not indicate that
the attending doctor did not know the cause of death. Rather he (or she) was being honest.
Stan
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So not illness, infection, accident etc --just upped n died
how else would you describe that sort of death?
Worn out ;D
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I lost my beautiful Mum on the 9th Oct, she would have been 94 next month. Her cause of death was "Due to old age" I was looking after her at home, and this is where she passed away,she had no illness what so ever, she was just worn out. Our family GP visited our home 3 days prior to her passing. there was no medical intervention required, she just wanted to go to sleep (her own words) and this is what she did with her lovng family around her.
So yes you can die from old age.
Trish :'(
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When my mother died in 2003, the cause of death on the certificate was just "Old age".
She was 90 and not on any medication. She had just had enough!
Kooky
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My mum, who to be fair did have heart problems as well as COPD, used to say she'd had enough when she was about 94/5 and my daughter couldn't believe anyone would think that and want to die. I had to remind her that her gran was 50 years older than she was and that my grandfather had already died.
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According to NHS guidelines, old age should not be given as the only cause of death unless a more specific cause of death cannot be given and the deceased was aged 70 and over.
Part 1, 6.7
http://www.uhs.nhs.uk/media/suhtideal/doctors/medicalpersonnelinduction/yourinductionday/medicalcertificateofcauseofdeath-notesfordoctors.pdf
So it would seem that the doctor can indeed write "died of old age" but, he or she has to record the underlying cause and as said above, the deceased was aged 70 and over.
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Graham - The cause of my parent's deaths were not given as old age, as they were both suffering from health problems, however quite a few of my ancestors died of old age or senile decay at anything from age 65 onwards - many of them not certified by a doc.
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Graham - The cause of my parent's deaths were not given as old age, as they were both suffering from health problems, however quite a few of my ancestors died of old age or senile decay at anything from age 65 onwards - many of them not certified by a doc.
Well yes, not that many years ago the poor old medic did not have a clue as to what saw granny off so it would have been well within their remit to have written that and a host of other supposed conditions.
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Well yes, not that many years ago the poor old medic did not have a clue as to what saw granny off so it would have been well within their remit to have written that and a host of other supposed conditions.
Not only that, people seem to have been able to register deaths of people whose death had not been certified by a doctor, or else the registrar just didn't think it important enough to add that info to the register.
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It's one thing that aint going to get me! I'm going to live forever, - or die trying!
(My wife says I'm a silly old fool. I aint old!)
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Until 1874 entering the cause of death was not a legal requirement.
Stan
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Until 1874 entering the cause of death was not a legal requirement.
Stan
So what did they write on that dotted line then Stan, apart from the obvious? ;)
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The Births and Deaths Registration Act had three principal aims, to facilitate legal proof of death, to prevent the concealment of crime, and to produce accurate mortality statistics. The prescribed form had a space for the cause of death, but completion of this was based on information supplied by the informant, or by the coroner who seldom had access to autopsy findings. Because of the deficiencies in the system, which were soon identified, in 1842 the Registrar General asked doctors to provide informants with a written cause of death, and in 1843 produced a a classification or arrangement of diseases, the first attempt to produce standard classified lists of the causes of death. In 1845 ten thousand licensed doctors received books of death certificates which they were invited to complete “to the best of their knowledge and belief” but in 1858 over 11 per cent of deaths were still registered without any medical information. In this year the General Medical Council came into existence, but there were 5000 medical practitioners not registered with the GMC and they were not initially included in the death certificate exercise.
The 1874 Act attempted to improve matters, and the ‘invitation’ to doctors to provide information became a ‘duty’, but unregistered ‘medical practitioners’ did not loose the right to issue certificates until 1885.
Dealing with Death: A Handbook of Practices, Procedures and Law
This is what the 1874 Act states:
(2.) In case of the death of any person who has been attended during his last illness by a registered medical practitioner, that practitioner shall sign and give to some person required by this Act to give information concerning the death a certificate stating to the best of his knowledge and belief the cause of death, and such person shall, upon giving information concerning the death, or giving notice of the death, deliver that certificate to the registrar, and the cause of death as stated in that certificate shall be entered in the register, together with the name of the certifying medical practitioner:
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~framland/acts/1874Act.htm
Stan
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I think I'd prefer to have "Died of Old Age" written on my death certificate, rather than what is on my great x3 grandfather's. He apparently died of Natural Decay, which I suppose is much the same thing.
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The Births and Deaths Registration Act had three principal aims, to facilitate legal proof of death, to prevent the concealment of crime, and to produce accurate mortality statistics. The prescribed form had a space for the cause of death, but completion of this was based on information supplied by the informant, or by the coroner who seldom had access to autopsy findings. Because of the deficiencies in the system, which were soon identified, in 1842 the Registrar General asked doctors to provide informants with a written cause of death, and in 1843 produced a a classification or arrangement of diseases, the first attempt to produce standard classified lists of the causes of death. In 1845 ten thousand licensed doctors received books of death certificates which they were invited to complete “to the best of their knowledge and belief” but in 1858 over 11 per cent of deaths were still registered without any medical information. In this year the General Medical Council came into existence, but there were 5000 medical practitioners not registered with the GMC and they were not initially included in the death certificate exercise.
The 1874 Act attempted to improve matters, and the ‘invitation’ to doctors to provide information became a ‘duty’, but unregistered ‘medical practitioners’ did not loose the right to issue certificates until 1885.
Dealing with Death: A Handbook of Practices, Procedures and Law
This is what the 1874 Act states:
(2.) In case of the death of any person who has been attended during his last illness by a registered medical practitioner, that practitioner shall sign and give to some person required by this Act to give information concerning the death a certificate stating to the best of his knowledge and belief the cause of death, and such person shall, upon giving information concerning the death, or giving notice of the death, deliver that certificate to the registrar, and the cause of death as stated in that certificate shall be entered in the register, together with the name of the certifying medical practitioner:
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~framland/acts/1874Act.htm
Stan
Sorry Stan, should have said before 1874
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From 1837 a cause of death was probably entered but there was no legal requirement to do so.
Stan
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From 1837 a cause of death was probably entered but there was no legal requirement to do so.
Stan
A poisoners paradise then Stan. :-\
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The prescribed form had a space for the cause of death, but completion of this was based on information supplied by the informant, :)
Stan
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In 1991 My grandfathers doctor said to my Mum he'd clearly loved to have put 'Old age' on the cert , (Grandpa was 91, and had not been ill) but had to enter another cause also, renal failure was put down as cause, due to old age.
By 1993 when Grandma died ( the widow) the law had been amended and the words 'Old Age' alone was acceptable
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I am surprised to read that old age is written as cause of death today . I have it on ancestor's death certificates and presumed the people were worn out /gave up or the doctor wasn't exactly sure but death wasn't unexpected due to age. So this phrase has been in continuous use ?
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I am surprised to read that old age is written as cause of death today . I have it on ancestor's death certificates and presumed the people were worn out /gave up or the doctor wasn't exactly sure but death wasn't unexpected due to age. So this phrase has been in continuous use ?
So was I Sue, and from what I had read where it was used the deceased had to be over 70 years old and a supplementary cause given, but according to Jan posted above, the rules changed again in 1993 so I'm none the wiser and still puzzled.
Is there a doctor in the house! (medical, not academic please... although medics are not always entitled to use the term "Doctor") :D
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May I join the puzzled club? he he
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An excerpt from an article re Queen Mother from a book by her niece Margaret Rhodes
Queen Elizabeth died at 3.15 in the afternoon on March 30, 2002. She just slipped away and her death certificate said that the cause of death was ‘extreme old age’.She was 101
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An excerpt from an article re Queen Mother from a book by her niece Margaret Rhodes
Queen Elizabeth died at 3.15 in the afternoon on March 30, 2002. She just slipped away and her death certificate said that the cause of death was ‘extreme old age’.She was 101
My Nan was almost exactly the same age as the Queen Mum, and was 101 when she died.
Her doctor said that she was was going to put the cause of death down as (1) broncho-pnuemonia and (2) extreme old age. We queried the broncho-pnuemonia, and the doctor told us that, as there was nothing else wrong at all with Gran, if she said broncho-pnuemonia , no-one would query it, and it would save us the upset of there being a post-mortem - apparently even at 102 our local registar would be likely to query the fact that, at 101, Gran was just extremely old, worn out and - basically - had just failed to wake up.
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I have one that says age related decay 1902 ???
The mind boggles.
Carol
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6.7 Old age, senility - do not use 'old age' or 'senility' as the only cause of death in Part 1 unless a more specific cause of death cannot be given and the deceased was aged 70 or over.
"Medical Certificate of Cause of Death - Notes for Doctors" Southampton University Hospital NHS Trust. http://goo.gl/V7gU3v
Stan
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Graham you said your sister died from a broken heart many times. It has been proven that women do suffer from broken heart syndrome. After the quakes here, many women suffered mild heart attacks or some kind of chest complaint.
As for dying of old age, surely the body slowly breaks down with time, our faces show that with the first sign of cracks ;D Crumbs I must not have long to go :o
Suzy W
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Graham you said your sister died from a broken heart many times. It has been proven that women do suffer from broken heart syndrome. After the quakes here, many women suffered mild heart attacks or some kind of chest complaint.
As for dying of old age, surely the body slowly breaks down with time, our faces show that with the first sign of cracks ;D Crumbs I must not have long to go :o
Suzy W
I'm sure they do Suzy, but I meant it in a lighthearted way - lots of 'over the top' drama's from my kid sister when romances failed! ;D
As for dying of old age, of course the body must wear out pretty much the same as an old car does but at the end of the day as said, surely you have to die of something specific even if the medic is not sure what it is there has to be a contributing factor such as heart failure?
"Lack of breath" was one of my Dad's favorite sayings!
Even though I'm like an old car myself I'll probably succumb to something like pneumonia as I have always had bad chests. As for the Mrs, I am always telling her I'm going to change her for a new model but as she's now a collectors item I think I'll hang to her for a little longer. ;)
I will concede though occasions when either through trauma or tiredness say, some folks just give up and slip slowly away. My father-in-law lay dying of a painful cancer but would not go until his eldest and only son came to sit beside his bed, held his hand and said "Papa, I'm here", and then he just went. He died of cancer sure, but he also went of his own accord.
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Hi,
Suzy W, cracks and crumbs.....so very funny!!!
Cheers
DAB ;D
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I think the problem arises if someone dies and hasn't seen the doctor recently, even if they were 103. I suppose the idea is to protect people from being killed off and no-one being any the wiser, so without a cause of death, other than old age, the coroner might feel obliged to ask for a post mortem. My father had been in a nursing home for 6 weeks before he died aged 91 and despite suffering from various cancers I had to speak to the coroner. I suggested he contacted the hospital and his previous GP for confirmation of my father's illhealth. He did this and I then received a 'phone call to say the coroner had decided that a PM wasn't required, the doctor who the nursing home had registered my father with, then wrote out a death certificate - still without ever seeing my father, dead or alive. He just picked one of the cancers he'd suffered from and put that down as cause of death, despite choosing the one he'd been cured of. :o
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My sister in law is 90 she gets the bus to town with her shopping trolly, every one best look out, she goes like the clappers, if i see her and talk, her face says I was on a roll !!
louisaS
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My mother in law's death certificate (d2001 aged 94) gave old age as the cause of death. So the term is still in modern usage.
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My mother in law's death certificate (d2001 aged 94) gave old age as the cause of death. So the term is still in modern usage.
As I posted before
6.7 Old age, senility - do not use 'old age' or 'senility' as the only cause of death in Part 1 unless a more specific cause of death cannot be given and the deceased was aged 70 or over.
"Medical Certificate of Cause of Death - Notes for Doctors" Southampton University Hospital NHS Trust. http://goo.gl/V7gU3v
Stan