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Research in Other Countries => Europe => Topic started by: Chezza84 on Tuesday 22 October 13 10:02 BST (UK)

Title: France: Smagge, Matton & Roseau
Post by: Chezza84 on Tuesday 22 October 13 10:02 BST (UK)
Hi, i was wondering anyone could help me i'm trying to find out information on my 3rd x Great Grandparents & Family in France.

Caterine Smagge born about 1823 in France died in 1906 Australia

Xavier Ambroise Matton born 1795 BOLLEZEELE and died 1876 Dunkirk (DUNKERQUE)
(found on http://www.archivesdepartementales.cg59.fr/)

They had 4 kids all born Bollezelle
- Louie Napolion b.1854 d.1857 (not 100% sure if it is there child)
- Chales b.1857 d.Aust
- Louie Auguste b.1859 d.Aust
- Marie Louise Josephine b.1862 d.Aust
(found on http://www.archivesdepartementales.cg59.fr/)

Caterine and her 3 children immigrated to Australia in 1878.

Other info is that Caterine was married prior (to Xavier) to a man with the surname Roseau, they had 3 boys in france and then a daughter Coralie Roseau in about 1849 in Africa. In the War they fled to north africa and her Husband Mr Roseau and her 3 sons all died in Africa, and this is where he daughter Coralie was born.

Family Stories say Caterine was brought up wealthy and she was well educated and was a tailoress, also they might have been related to royaly,  but apparently during the war the lost all there money as it was taken into chancery in england.

When she came back to france and married Xavier she apparently lived at one point in Flanders.

Coralie didnt immigrate with the family as she was married to a man called Harry DeQue/LeCue. They had there own children. Harry died and was buried as a pauper in Dunkirk.

Someone else's tree on the net has Caterine parents as Constantine August SMAGGUE & Francisca BOUCHIES

Also the Family was Catholic

So i was wondering whether anyone could help out with records in france (the only ones i have found are the ones i found on  http://www.archivesdepartementales.cg59.fr/ as stated above).

Would anyone know areas near Bollezelle or Dunkirk that i could search on that site too.

Thanks for reading.
Cherie
Title: Re: France: Smagge, Matton & Roseau
Post by: garstonite on Tuesday 22 October 13 10:18 BST (UK)
http://en.geneanet.org/search/?page_size=20&ressource=arbre&vplist%5Bname%5D=&name=smagge&nbindi=&country=FRA&region=&subregion=&place=dunkerque&annee_debut=&annee_fin=&source=&sub_frm52664203c0862.x=18&sub_frm52664203c0862.y=9&ajax_ok=1

7 for Smagge in Dunkerque

http://en.geneanet.org/search/?page_size=20&ressource=arbre&vplist%5Bname%5D=&name=matton&nbindi=&country=FRA&region=&subregion=&place=bollezeele&annee_debut=&annee_fin=&source=&sub_frm5266480c80f80.x=16&sub_frm5266480c80f80.y=13&ajax_ok=1
75 results for Matton
Title: Re: France: Smagge, Matton & Roseau
Post by: Tati on Tuesday 22 October 13 10:49 BST (UK)
Hi both  :)

I checked the actual birth record for Louis Napoléon (p954/1129) and it says Catherine (aged 30) was born in Buysscheure. Any help?

Tati  :)
Title: Re: France: Smagge, Matton & Roseau
Post by: garstonite on Tuesday 22 October 13 10:52 BST (UK)
http://gw.geneanet.org/becuwe?lang=en&v=MATTON&m=N

Xavier Ambroise Matton born 1797 ??...(you have 1795 ) is in this tree the youngest of 6 - which has

Father as Michel Francois Xavier Baudouin Matton
Mother as Michelle Jacoba ......
Title: Re: France: Smagge, Matton & Roseau
Post by: Chezza84 on Tuesday 22 October 13 11:00 BST (UK)
Hi both  :)

I checked the actual birth record for Louis Napoléon (p954/1129) and it says Catherine (aged 30) was born in Buysscheure. Any help?

Tati  :)
What site did you find this on?

Thanks
Title: Re: France: Smagge, Matton & Roseau
Post by: Tati on Tuesday 22 October 13 11:10 BST (UK)
I found in on the site you linked to, archives départementales 59. Are you aware you can see the actual registers on there ?

Catherine Barbe Lucie Smagghe, birth registration 9 Sep 1823 (p407/1334). Dad Jean Constant, aged 32, is a "couvreur en paille" (thatcher).
possible brother Laurent Ambroise Smagghe, 21 May 1825, but I didn't check the actual record.

Marriage Jean Constant Smagghe and Françoise Debusscher 8 Nov 1822 in Buysscheure.

 :)

Edit: corrected Catherine's name
Title: Re: France: Smagge, Matton & Roseau
Post by: Chezza84 on Tuesday 22 October 13 11:12 BST (UK)
No i didnt know, where abouts on the site can you do that?

Thanks
Title: Re: France: Smagge, Matton & Roseau
Post by: Chezza84 on Tuesday 22 October 13 11:14 BST (UK)
I found in on the site you linked to, archives départementales 59. Are you aware you can see the actual registers on there ?

Catherine Barbe Reine Smagghe, birth registration 9 Sep 1823 (p407/1334). Dad Jean Constant, aged 32, is a "couvreur en paille" (thatcher).
possible brother Laurent Ambroise Smagghe, 21 May 1825, but I didn't check the actual record.

Marriage Jean Constant Smagghe and Françoise Debusscher 8 Nov 1822 in Buysscheure.

 :)
I've actual heard that her father was a roofer, so a thatcher matches that.
Title: Re: France: Smagge, Matton & Roseau
Post by: Tati on Tuesday 22 October 13 11:34 BST (UK)
No i didnt know, where abouts on the site can you do that?

I'm not sure how you've been using the site so I'm taking it from the start page here
http://www.archivesdepartementales.cg59.fr/?id=archives_online

Select "Etat civil" on the left, the underneath select either "tables décénnales" (10 year indexes) or "Actes".
Let's suppose we want to see Catherine's birth and we've already found the date - 9 Sep 1823 - in the 10-year-index for Buysscheure.   
To see the actual record, select "Actes", then
commune : Buysscheure
période (between 1823 and 1823 to avoid too many records from coming up),
type d'acte : naissances 
click "rechercher".
One result comes up (Births, marriages and deaths 1807 through 1862)
Click on the pic and trawl through the records.

 :)
Title: Re: France: Smagge, Matton & Roseau
Post by: Chezza84 on Tuesday 22 October 13 11:43 BST (UK)
Thanks, i have found the record, i can't really understand it at all, cause i don't read french. found the Jean Constant Smagghe in the middle of the writting tho.
Title: Re: France: Smagge, Matton & Roseau
Post by: Tati on Tuesday 22 October 13 12:49 BST (UK)
I agree French records are a little wordy,but they can be so very informative  :D

Looking at the indexes for Buysscheure
Marriage Pierre Louis Roseau - Catherine Barbe Lucie Smagghe, Buysscheure 16 Feb 1847
(p960-962/1337. Groom born in Merris in 1810, widowed, occupation tailor)
 
Children:
Aimable Gery Auguste Roseau 3 Apr 1848 (p989/1337). Dies 7 Sep 1848. 
Eugénie Coralie Roseau 18 Aug 1849 (p1022/1334) - maybe your Coralie? 

Marriage Xavier Matton - Catherine Smagge 26 Jan 1853 (p1097/1334.)
Xavier Ambroise Matton, age 55, born in Bollezeele on 29 Pluviose an 5 (= 17 Feb 1797), shoemaker (cordonnier), widower of Reine Virginie Cailliau who died Buysscheure on 4 Jan 1838. Parents Michel François Baudouin Matton (died Bollezeele 14 May 1811) and Marie Catherine Cécile Ryngaert (died Bollezeele 9 Feb 1836).
Catherine Barbe Lucie Smagge, born Buysscheure 8 Sep 1823, worker (ouvrière), widow of Pierre Louis Roseau who died in El Arrouch (Algeria) on 30 Aug 1850. Parents Jean Constant Smagge, roofer, and Rufine Françoise Debusscher, both residing Buysscheure.   

 :)

Title: Re: France: Smagge, Matton & Roseau
Post by: Chezza84 on Tuesday 22 October 13 13:01 BST (UK)
wow thankyou so much.

I was going to ask you that if i give you some record details, ie place, year and page number, could you transcribe them for me please.
Title: Re: France: Smagge, Matton & Roseau
Post by: Chezza84 on Tuesday 22 October 13 13:07 BST (UK)
Xavier Death
DUNKERQUE / D [1873-1877] p598/979
Title: Re: France: Smagge, Matton & Roseau
Post by: Tati on Tuesday 22 October 13 13:14 BST (UK)
29Mar 1876, death of Xavier Ambroise Matton, journeyman,aged 79,born in Bollezeele, husband of Catherine Barbe Lucie Smagge, son of the late Michel Matton and Cécile Ringaert. Died at his home in Dunkerque, 11 rue du Petit Jardin.
Title: Re: France: Smagge, Matton & Roseau
Post by: Chezza84 on Tuesday 22 October 13 13:19 BST (UK)
Thanks so much,

also this is what else i have so far, dont know whether they will have any more info on them tho.

Bollezeele
1838-1857
1127/1129 d.Louie Napolion
p1091/1129 b. Charles Matton

1858-1877
p69/892 b.Louie Matton
p219/892 Marie Matton
Title: Re: France: Smagge, Matton & Roseau
Post by: Chezza84 on Tuesday 22 October 13 13:29 BST (UK)

Eugénie Coralie Roseau 18 Aug 1849 (p1022/1334) - maybe your Coralie? 

Could well might be, the family story is that when they fled to Africa she had Coralie, and after the husband and boys died the fighting got worse and she ended up leaving the town where she was and ended up in the desert and some strangers gave her some camels milk to find the baby. I dont know much about the wars in this time period but mayby they fled after she was born. Are the records of birth or of baptism? and does it state how old they are at the time. I have a copy of a letter that Marie Matton daughter wrote about what her mother told her.
Title: Re: France: Smagge, Matton & Roseau
Post by: Chezza84 on Tuesday 22 October 13 13:49 BST (UK)
Thankyou so much for your help, i'm off to bed for the night (i'm in Australia).
Title: Re: France: Smagge, Matton & Roseau
Post by: Tati on Tuesday 22 October 13 14:36 BST (UK)
I'm not aware of any war involving France around 1850.

These are all civil registration records (after 1792)
When Eugénie Coralie Roseau is born, dad is 38 and mum 25.

Bollezeele p. 1127/1129 23 Nov 1857
Xavier Ambroise Matton, age 60, no occupation (+ someone else) registers the death of Louis Napoléon Matton, age 4, born and residing Bollezeele, son of Xavier Ambroise Matton and his wife Catherine Smagge, no occupation, both residing Bollezeele. Death occurred the previous day at the boy's parents' home. (French death records don't show a cause of death)

Bollezeele p1091/1129 9 Mar 1857
Birth registration of Charles-Aimé Matton, born the same day at his parents' home section B of this commune, "sur la place" (town square), to Xavier Ambroise Matton, 59, no occupation, born and residing Bollezeele, and his wife Catherine Smagge, 35, "ouvrière", born Buysscheure.
Informants : the father
+ Pierre François Louis Devos, 37, ouvrier cordonnier (shoemaker), child's first cousin 
+ Louis Deberre (not related)       

p69/892 21 Nov 1859 
birth Louis Auguste Matton born Rue de Watten, section B, the same day
Father Xavier Ambroise Matton, 63, ouvrier, born and residing Bollezeele, mother Catherine Smagge, 39 born Beysscheure.   

p219/892 20 May 1862
birth Marie Louise Joséphine Matton, rue de Watten section A the same day.
Father Xavier Ambroise Matton, 66, ouvrier, born and residing Bollezeele, mother Catherine Smagge, 41, ouvrière, born Beysscheure. 
Witnesses not related.
Title: Re: France: Smagge, Matton & Roseau
Post by: Tati on Tuesday 22 October 13 15:18 BST (UK)
I'm adding the deaths of Xavier's parents.

9 Feb 1836 Bollezeele, p1060/1164
Death registration Marie Catherine Cécile Ryngaert. Died 8 Feb. aged 79, rentière (annuitant), born and residing Bollezeele. Parents François Ryngaert and Marie Catherine Charle, millers, who died Bollezeele. Widow of Michel Matton, hop merchant, who died Bollezeele.   
Informants:
Bertin Augustin Bazile Baert, 56, cloth merchant, son of the deceased
François Xavier Ryckelynck(?), 36, cultivateur (farmer), "son by marriage" of the deceased, both residing Bollezeele.

15 May 1811 Bollezeele,p575/1117
Death Michel François Bouduin Matton (died the previous day), married man, farmer, residing Bollezeele, born Zegerscappel, aged 61, son of Bouduin Matton and Micheline Baers who both died in Bollezeele.
Informants:
François Langaigne, ménager*, 61, residing Bollezeele, son-in-law of the deceased
Bertin Baert, iron merchant, 30, residing Bollezeele, stepson of the deceased

and the marriage of Catherine's parents:

Buysscheure p390/1334, 8 Nov 1822
Jean Constant Smagge, born in Ebblinghem on 11 Jan 1791, residing Ebblinnghem, thatcher. Parents Pierre Jean Smagge who died in Ebblinghem on 5 Jan 1791 and Rosalie ?Hébaut? who died in Ebblinghem on 6 Mar 1813.
Ruffine Françoise Debeusscher, born Buysscheure on 26 Mar 1782. Father Pierre Jean Debeusscher, aged 80 years and 6 months, occupation "ménager"*, attends the wedding. Mother Marie Antoinette Waets, died Buysscheure on 5 Jan 1822 (death p374 aged 69, born Lederzeele, parents Pierre Dominique Waets and Isabelle Samappel). Ruffine Françoise is widow of Pierre Constantin Dehorter who died 1st Oct 1809 in Buysscheure.
Among the witnesses : Pierre Jacques Debeusscher, 31, bride's brother, grocer, residing Buysscheure

*I'm finding several meanings for this occupation, probably small farmer
Title: Re: France: Smagge, Matton & Roseau
Post by: jorose on Tuesday 22 October 13 16:40 BST (UK)
http://anom.archivesnationales.culture.gouv.fr
 - has one reference to Pierre Louis Roseau as a colonist in Algeria (Base nominative Personnes et Familles) and also it appears some records (not name searchable) under etat civil including for El Arrouch.  I did not see any death records for Roseau there but they might be registered elsewhere - or depending on the circumstances, not properly registered at all.  Not all years have indexes, there are no ten-year indexes, and some of the early 1850s records appear to have been damaged.

I'm guessing they went as colonists (colons/pied-noir), but perhaps Pierre (and some other children) died there and Catherine was left with Coralie (a babe in arms) trying to make her way home to France from Algeria.  As for the " 3 boys in france" - it doesn't seem that there's space for them between the marriage and Pierre's death in Algeria, but as Pierre was married before he married Caterine perhaps there were one or two boys from his first marriage? Previous wife of Pierre Louis Roseau was Delphine Fidelie Reine St. Jean who died 1846 in Buysscheure - she was  b. Rubrouck, aged 30 when she died. They married in 1841 in Rubrouck.

Info on where they were in Algeria:
http://fr.geneawiki.com/index.php/Alg%C3%A9rie_-_El-Arrouch

Note the name of the railway station. If you go back to the records and look for "Robertville" rather than El-Arrouch, there is one record for this family.

(page 11) Amelie Roseau b. 8 Sep 1843 at Niollet, Dunkerque, Nord, daughter of Pierre Louis Roseau, deceased and Delphine St. Jean, deceased, died at the home of her stepmother, 25 Oct 1850.

Nieurlet is probably the location of this girl's birth, but records for that commune don't seem to be online.  The timing/location seems to confirm Catherine's statement about the death of her first husband at the time of her second marriage, though.
Title: Re: France: Smagge, Matton & Roseau
Post by: Tati on Tuesday 22 October 13 17:59 BST (UK)
Coralie's marriage (found the reference on a tree at geneanet) took place in Eringhem on 14 Sep 1869, p102/310.
Henri Félix Florimond Decoo - Eugénie Coralie Roseau
Henri born 27 May 1841 in Eringhem.
Eugénie Coralie Roseau, cabaretière (innkeeper), born in Buysscheure on 23 Aug 1849, daughter of Pierre Louis Roseau (died El Arrouch Algeria 30 Aug 1850) and Catherine Barbe Lucie Smagge, cabaretière, residing Dunkerque, attending.

Birth of a daughter in Dunkerque, 4 Oct 1869: Berthe Hélène Marie Decoo, p502/1070. Parents residing rue Saint-Bernard in Dunkerque.
Title: Re: France: Smagge, Matton & Roseau
Post by: jorose on Tuesday 22 October 13 21:57 BST (UK)
Looking at both the El Arrouch and Robertville (http://fr.geneawiki.com/index.php/Alg%C3%A9rie_-_Robertville ) pages it seems that cholera and earthquakes were responsible for many deaths among the early French colonists in the area, but also the page on Robertville mentions that the location, close to the mountains, exposed the settlers to attacks.

Found the birth of the girl Amalie Roseau who died in Algeria, in Lederzeele in 1843 (p. 649/67).  Haven't spotted any more Roseau children (Eugenie's full or half siblings).

Her daughter Berthe that Tati found may have married in Saint-Pol-sur-Mer.
http://www.gennpdc.net/releves/tab_mari.php?args=Saint-Pol-sur-Mer,DECOO

http://crgfa.free.fr/jfichaux/DUNK0058.html#29-51
  - also in the 1906 census of Dunkerque.

More children for Henri and Eugenie are found in Petit-Synthe.
Virginie Alphonsie Decoo, 23 Apr 1871, Petit-Synthe, p. 348/98
Albert Eugene Decoo, 8 Nov 1872, Petit-Synthe. p.509/157
Victor Benjamin Decoo, 19 Feb 1875, Petit-Synthe p. 837/32
Irenee Henri Decoo, 15 Dec 1877, Petit-Synthe p. 69/242

Irenee Henri's military records (matricules militaires - États signalétiques), no 1390, are in Dunkerque, class of 1897, volume 3 page 653.
Title: Re: France: Smagge, Matton & Roseau
Post by: Chezza84 on Wednesday 23 October 13 11:19 BST (UK)
wow, thank you guys so much, you are awesome.
Title: Re: France: Smagge, Matton & Roseau
Post by: jorose on Wednesday 23 October 13 12:31 BST (UK)
It's an interesting story! I hope she was happy in her second marriage and with her children in Australia - she'd earned a comfortable old age.

It struck me that there was apparently a cholera epidemic in 1849 - the same year some of my Cornish relatives went through one, what was with 1849, anyway? - so they may have been among the families sent to repopulate the area.  Wherever you see a cholera epidemic that tells you that the conditions your ancestors were living in were not good - particularly their access to fresh, clean, water.

Probably the Roseaus were poor in France and hoped for - or had been promised - better things in Algeria, perhaps the opportunity to own their own land.  As was typical of 1800s colonisation schemes, the difficulties would have been downplayed when recruitment was taking place in France.

Among the issues mentioned here - reliance on the government for loans/equipment, swamps, brambles, continuous looting and night attacks, buildings promised but not delivered, lands promised that turned out to be already occupied, drought, cold, grasshoppers, dysentry, malaria...

Quote
Des petits colons : détenteurs de concession de 4 à 12 hectares, tributaires de l'administration pour l'octroi de prêts et de matériel, parfois assignés au rôle de métayers des grands concessionnaires. Les conditions souvent misérables dans lesquelles ils vivaient en faisait une proie désignée pour les maladies, dues à l'insalubrité du climat.

Ceux-là auront connu les marécages où l'on s'embourbe, les ronces impénétrables, l'hostilité des terres, les pillages incessants, les agressions nocturnes, les constructions promises jamais obtenues, les concessions qui n'en étaient pas, déjà occupées ou vendues en multipropriétés, la sécheresse, le froid et les sauterelles, la malaria, la dysenterie, et le paludisme enfin, qui en 1837 en feront périr plus d'un tiers.
Title: Re: France: Smagge, Matton & Roseau
Post by: Chezza84 on Wednesday 23 October 13 12:52 BST (UK)
It's an interesting story! I hope she was happy in her second marriage and with her children in Australia - she'd earned a comfortable old age.
Catherine 2nd husband Xavier Died in france in 1876, her and the Matton Children went to Australia in 1878. Tho she did end up marrying again in Australia in 1891. She lived to be 83 years of age. She was going to head back to Africa but ended up in Australia as she turned to the protestant church as she was getting no help from the catholic church and the minister told her why not australia as the the queen was offering free passage, and the church helped her with the cost of traverling to england.
Title: Re: France: Smagge, Matton & Roseau
Post by: Chezza84 on Wednesday 23 October 13 12:57 BST (UK)
The letter i have says that her husband and children died from a fever so the cholera epidemic would fit.
Title: Re: France: Smagge, Matton & Roseau
Post by: Chezza84 on Wednesday 23 October 13 12:59 BST (UK)
Could someone translate

Buysscheure 1825 births page 448/1334
Its for Laurent Ambroise Smagge (Catherine's brother as i can make out the fathers name, but cant read the rest)

Thanks
Title: Re: France: Smagge, Matton & Roseau
Post by: jorose on Wednesday 23 October 13 13:20 BST (UK)
Do you have their emigration to Australia? (1878 to Queensland on the Glamis, although only children listed with her are Marie and August - maybe Charles came separate).

Laurent's birth - 21 may 1825, father Jean Constant aged 34, same occupation as on Catherne's birth, mother Rufine Françoise Debusscher aged 43.  I'm guessing that due to Rufine's age they probably only had the two kids although there may be some Dehorter half-siblings from her earlier marriage.
Title: Re: France: Smagge, Matton & Roseau
Post by: Chezza84 on Wednesday 23 October 13 13:25 BST (UK)
Yes i do have the immigration record, Louie and Charles where listed under Martin.

Thanks for the Translation too.
Title: Re: France: Smagge, Matton & Roseau
Post by: Chezza84 on Wednesday 23 October 13 13:29 BST (UK)
Was wondering whether someone could help find and then translate the birth of Pierre Francois Louis Devos born 29/3/1921 in Bollezeele, im not have much luck understanding the french in the earlier births, im kinda flying blind, lol. just going page by page. Pierre is listed on Charles Matton Birth record as his first cousin.

Thanks

Edit Found him
Title: Re: France: Smagge, Matton & Roseau
Post by: Chezza84 on Wednesday 23 October 13 13:38 BST (UK)
Found him, could someone translate

Pierre Francois Louis Devos birth 1921 in Bollezeele page 107/1164
Title: Re: France: Smagge, Matton & Roseau
Post by: Tati on Wednesday 23 October 13 17:50 BST (UK)
Bollezeele page 107/1164
26 May 1821
Birth registration Pierre Francois Louis Devos, born the previous day
Parents Pierre François Joseph Devos, 34, journalier (journeyman), residing Bollezeele born Cappellebrouck, and his wife Victoire Xavère Matton born & residing Bollezeele (doesn't give her age).
Witness Philippe Jacques Straseele, cultivateur, residing Bollezeele, 44, half-uncle by marriage of the newborn.
The other witness, Martin Devulder, not related. 

Just for the record, I saw 2 death registrations of Roseau children in Buysscheure, both belonging to Pierre François and his first wife:
4 Oct 1847, Ambroisine Reine Marie Roseau aged 2 (born Buysscheure 3 oct 1845)
16 Apr 1849, Victoire Delphine Roseau aged 7 (born Saint-Omer dépt. Pas de Calais 23 Jul 1841, p436/1397. Archives here http://www.archivespasdecalais.fr/Archives-en-ligne )

 :)
Title: Re: France: Smagge, Matton & Roseau
Post by: Tati on Wednesday 23 October 13 19:17 BST (UK)
Do we want to trace the Smagges back a little? (Sorry if you didn't!! :P)

Ebblinghem church records
11 Jan 1791 (p285/323) christening of Jean Constant Smagge born the same day, posthumous son of Pierre Jean Smagge. Mother Pétronille Rosalie Thibeau. Godparents Pierre Jacques Smagge (the boy's uncle, who signs) and Louise Pétronille(?) Goddeliève(?) Smagge (the boy's aunt, who doesn't sign)

previous page
5 Jan 1791 burial Pierre Jean Smagge, husband of Pétronille Rosalie Thiebau, native of this parish. Died 2 days earlier, aged about 52. Presence of his brothers Jacques Smagge and Jean François Xavier Smagge (both sign).
Seems to me "Pierre Jacques" and "Jacques" Smagge are one and the same person => same signature 

Back to civil registration records for Rosalie's death:
7 Mar 1813, p489/961
Death registration Rosalie Thibaut (died 6 March), 66, spinner, widow of Pierre Smagge, born in Cassel, daughter of the late Jacques Thibaut and Rosalie Bogaert.

I'm adding the death of Pierre Jacques (Pierre Jean's brother) which occurred after the start of civil registration, to get their parents' names:
17 pluviose an 12 (7 Feb 1804), p307/961
Death registration Pierre Jacques Smagge, husband of Agnes Joly, farmer and mayor of Ebblinghem. Legitimate son of Jean Smagge and Marie Anne Germet

 :)
Title: Re: France: Smagge, Matton & Roseau
Post by: Chezza84 on Wednesday 23 October 13 23:58 BST (UK)
Thanks again to everyone that is helping, here's some internet flowers to say thanks.

(https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT3fJfIB-2fCMJvttnboKAJ0-3WpuKNaS8Cb0PoPUcgEgEn0w3l)

Do we want to trace the Smagges back a little? (Sorry if you didn't!! :P)
I would love to trace as much of the family as possible.
Title: Re: France: Smagge, Matton & Roseau
Post by: Chezza84 on Thursday 24 October 13 00:30 BST (UK)
I'm adding the death of Pierre Jacques (Pierre Jean's brother) which occurred after the start of civil registration, to get their parents' names:
17 pluviose an 12 (7 Feb 1804), p307/961
Death registration Pierre Jacques Smagge, husband of Agnes Joly, farmer and mayor of Ebblinghem. Legitimate son of Jean Smagge and Marie Anne Germet
Since Pierre Jacques Smagge was the Mayor of Ebblinghem, i wonder is this is the twist (IYKWIM) on the family story about being related to royalty, so not royal but still of great importance.
Title: Re: France: Smagge, Matton & Roseau
Post by: Tati on Thursday 24 October 13 08:50 BST (UK)
OK, seems Pierre Jacques was Pierre Jean's half-brother:

6 Oct 1737 Ebblinhem, p719/1183
christening Pierre Jean Smagge, legitimate son of Jean François Smagghe and Marie Josyne Martens. Godparents François Pierre Sergneraet and Marie Petronelle Montel.

Burial Marie Josyne Marthens 20 Apr 1738 (p728), aged 26, wife of Jean François Smagghe. Presence husband Jean François Smagge (signs) and father Joos Marthens (signs)

Jean-François remarries soon after: 1 Jul 1738 (p731) Marriage Jean François Smagghe, 30, son of Matthieu Smagghe and Micheline Bodaert, widower of Marie Josyne Marthens to Marie Anne François Germet, aged 20.
Title: Re: France: Smagge, Matton & Roseau
Post by: Chezza84 on Thursday 24 October 13 10:17 BST (UK)
Thanks once again. Have typed up the family so i thought i would post so its easier to see what has and hasn't been found.
Title: Re: France: Smagge, Matton & Roseau
Post by: Chezza84 on Thursday 24 October 13 10:17 BST (UK)
Generation 1

Children on Xavier Matton & Catherine Barbe Lucie Smagge (married 1853-1876)

Louie Napoléon Matton
b. 21/01/1854 Bollezeele, page 954/1129
d. 23/11/1857 Bollezeele, page 1127/1129

Charles-Aimé Matton
b. 09/03/1957 Bollezeele, page 1091/1129
Immigrated to Australia

Louis Auguste Matton
b. 21/09/1859 Bollezeele, page 69/892
Immigrated to Australia

Marie Louise Joséphine Matton
b. 20/03/1862 Bollezeele, page 219/892
Immigrated to Australia

Children of Pierre Louis Roseau & Catherine Barbe Lucie Smagge (married 1847-1850)

Aimable Gery Auguste Roseau
b. 03/04/1848 Buysscheure, page 989/1337
d. 07/09/1848

Eugénie Coralie Roseau
b. 18 or 23/08/1849 Buysscheure, page 1022/1334
d.
m. 14/09/1869 Eringhem, page 102/310.
   Henri Félix Florimond Decoo
   b. 27/05/1841 Eringhem
   d.
Children from Marriage

Berthe Hélène Marie Decoo
b. 04/10/1869 Dunkerque, page 502/1070
d.
m. 03/02/1894 Saint-Pol-Sur-Mer
   Jean Louis Marquis
   b.  abt 1869
   d.

Virginie Alphonsie Decoo
b. 23 Apr 1871 Petit-Synthe, page 348/98
d.

Albert Eugene Decoo
b. 08/11/1872 Petit-Synthe, page 509/157
d. 

Victor Benjamin Decoo
b. 19/02/1875 Petit-Synthe, page 837/32
d.

Irenee Henri Decoo
b. 15/12/1877 Petit-Synthe, page 69/242
d.

Children of Pierre Louis Roseau & Delphine Fidelie Reine St.Jean (married 1841-1846)

Amelie Roseau
b. 1843 Lederzeele, page 649/67
d. 25/10/1850 Robertville, Algeria

Ambroisine Reine Marie Roseau
b. 03/10/1845 Buysscheure
d. 04/10/1847 Buysscheure

Victoire Delphine Roseau
b. 23/07/1841 Saint-Omer dépt. Pas de Calais
d. 16/04/1849 Buysscheure, page 436/1397.

Children of Xavier Matton & Reine Virginie Cailliau (Married 1834-1838)

Charlotte Stephanie Matton
b. 23/04/1837 BUYSSCHEURE p717/1334
d. 29/04/1837 BUYSSCHEURE p718/1334
Title: Re: France: Smagge, Matton & Roseau
Post by: Chezza84 on Thursday 24 October 13 10:18 BST (UK)
Generation 2 – Smagge & Matton

Catherine Barbe Lucie Smagge
b. 08/09/1832 Buysscheure, page 407/1334
d. Australia

Marriage 1
Pierre Louis Roseau - Catherine Barbe Lucie Smagge,
m. 16/02/1847 Buysscheure, page 960-962/1337

Pierre Louis Roseau
b. 1810 Merris
d. 30/08/1850 El Arrouch, Algeria
   m. 1841 Rubrouck
   Delphine Fidelie Reine St. Jean
   b. 1816 Rubrouck
   d. 1846 Buysscheure

Marriage 2 – Matton & Smagge
 Xavier Ambroise Matton - Catherine Barbe Lucie Smagge
m. 26/01/1853 Buysscheure, page 1097/1334

Xavier Ambroise Matton
b. 17/02/1797 Bollezeele
d. 29/03/1876 Dunkerque, page 598/979

Marriage 1 - Matton
Xavier Ambroise Matton & Reine Virginie Cailliau/Cailliard
m. 07/10/1834 BUYSSCHEURE page 652/1334

Reine Virginie Cailliau
b. 18/02/1806
d. 04/01/1838 Buysscheure

Siblings of Catherine
Children of Jean Constant Smagge & Ruffine Françoise Debeusscher (Married 1822-___?)


Laurent Ambroise Smagge
b. 21/05/1825 Buysscheure, page 448/1334
d.

Children of Pierre Constantin Dehorter & Ruffine Françoise Debeusscher
?

Siblings of Xavier
Son of Marie Catherine Cecile Ryngaert

Bertin Augustin Bazile Baert
b. abt 1780
d.    (after 1836)

Son of Marie Catherine Cecile Ryngaert by Marraige
Francois Xavier Ryckelynck
b. 1800
d.    (died after 1836)

Children of Michel Francios Baudouin Matton (& possibly Marie Catherine Cecile Ryngaert)
Victoire Xavère Matton
b. ___? Bollezeele
d.
   m. Pierre François Joseph Devos
   b. abt 1787 Cappellebrouck
   d.
      Children from Marriage
         Pierre Francois Louis Devos
         b. 25/05/1821 Bollezeele page 107/1164
         d.

Daughter
   m. François Langaigne
   b. abt 1750
   d.    (after 1811)
Title: Re: France: Smagge, Matton & Roseau
Post by: Chezza84 on Thursday 24 October 13 10:22 BST (UK)
Generation 3 – Matton & Ryngaert

François Bouduin Matton
b. abt  1750 Zegerscappel
d. 14/05/1811 Bollezeele,p575/1117

Marriage of François Bouduin Matton & Marie Catherine Cécile Ryngaert
m. ?

Marie Catherine Cécile Ryngaert
b. abt 1757 Bollezeele
d. 08/02/1836 Bollezeele, p1060/1164
   m. ?
   _____ Baert
Title: Re: France: Smagge, Matton & Roseau
Post by: Chezza84 on Thursday 24 October 13 10:24 BST (UK)
Generation 4 – Matton & Baers

Bouduin Matton
b.
d. Bollezeele

Marriage of Bouduin Matton and Micheline Baers
m. ?

Micheline Baers
b.
d. Bollezeele

Generation 4 – Ryngaert & Charle

François Ryngaert
b.
d. Bollezeele

Marriage of François Ryngaert and Marie Catherine Charle
m. ?

Marie Catherine Charle
b.
d. Bollezeele
Title: Re: France: Smagge, Matton & Roseau
Post by: Chezza84 on Thursday 24 October 13 10:26 BST (UK)
Generation 3 – Smagge & Debeusscher

Jean Constant Smagge
b. 11/01/1791 Ebblinghem, page 285/323
d.
 
Jean Constant Smagge and Ruffine Françoise Debeusscher
m. 08/11/1822 Buysscheure, page 390/1334

Ruffine Françoise Debeusscher
b. Buysscheure on 26 Mar 1782
d.
m. ?
   Pierre Constantin Dehorter
   b.
   d. 01/10/1809 Buysscheure

Siblings of Ruffine Françoise Debeusscher
Children of Pierre Jean Debeusscher (& possibly Marie Antoinette Waets)


Pierre Jacques Debeusscher
b. 1791
d.    (after 1822)   

Siblings of Jean Constant Smagge
Children of Pierre Jean Smagge & Pétronille Rosalie Thiebaut

?
Title: Re: France: Smagge, Matton & Roseau
Post by: Chezza84 on Thursday 24 October 13 10:31 BST (UK)
Generation 4 – Smagge & Thibeau

Pierre Jean Smagge
b. abt 1739
d. 03/01/1791 Ebblinghem, page 284/323

Pierre Jean Smagge to Pétronille Rosalie Thiebaut
m. ?

Pétronille Rosalie Thiebaut
b. abt 1747 Cassel
d. 06/03/1813 Ebblinghem, page 489/961

Sibling of Jean Constant Smagge
Children of Jean François Smagge

(& possibly Marie Josyne Martens or Marie Anne François Germet)

Louise Pétronille(?) Goddeliève(?) Smagge
b.
d.

Jean François Xavier Smagge
b.
d.

Children of Jean François Smagge & Marie Anne François Germet

Pierre Jacques Smagge
(Farmer and mayor of Ebblinghem)
b.
d. 07/02/1804), page 307/961
m. ?
   Agnes Joly
   b.
   d.

Siblings of Pétronille Rosalie Thiebaut
Children of Jacques Thibaut and Rosalie Bogaert

?
Title: Re: France: Smagge, Matton & Roseau
Post by: Chezza84 on Thursday 24 October 13 10:34 BST (UK)
Generation 5 – Smagge & Marthens

Jean François Smagge
b. 1708
d.
    m. 01/07/1738 Ebblinghem, page 731
   Marie Anne Germet
   b. 1718
   d.

Marriage of Jean François Smagge & Marie Josyne Martens
m. ?

Marie Josyne Marthens
b. abt 1712
d. 20/04/1738 Ebblinghem, page 728


Generation 6 - Marthens
Joos Marthens
b.
d.

Generation 6 – Smagge
Matthieu Smagghe
b.
d.

Marraige
?

Micheline Bodaert
b.
d.
Title: Re: France: Smagge, Matton & Roseau
Post by: Chezza84 on Thursday 24 October 13 10:36 BST (UK)
Generation 5 – Thiebaut & Bogaert

Jacques Thiebaut
b.
d.

Jacques Thiebaut & Rosalie Bogaert
m. ?

Rosalie Bogaert
b.
d.
Title: Re: France: Smagge, Matton & Roseau
Post by: Chezza84 on Thursday 24 October 13 10:37 BST (UK)
Generation 4 – Debeusscher & Waets

Pierre Jean Debeusscher
b. 1742
d.   (after 1822)

Pierre Jean Debeusscher & Marie Antoinette Waets
m. ?

Marie Antoinette Waets
b. abt 1753 Lederzeele
d. 05/01/1822 Buysscheure, page 374

Siblings of Marie
Children of Pierre Dominique Waets & Isabelle Samappel
?

Generation 5 - Waets & Samappel

Pierre Dominique Waets
b.
d.

Pierre Dominique Waets and Isabelle Samappel
m. ?

Isabelle Samappel
b.
d.
Title: Re: France: Smagge, Matton & Roseau
Post by: Chezza84 on Thursday 24 October 13 10:39 BST (UK)
I hope that made sense, i will update those posts as the information comes in.
Title: Re: France: Smagge, Matton & Roseau
Post by: Chezza84 on Thursday 24 October 13 11:20 BST (UK)
Can someone please translate.

Marraige of Xavier Ambroise Matton & Reine Virginie Cailliau
BUYSSCHEURE page 652/1334
Title: Re: France: Smagge, Matton & Roseau
Post by: Chezza84 on Thursday 24 October 13 11:29 BST (UK)
Can someone please translate.

Charlotte Stephanie Matton
BUYSSCHEURE
Birth: p717/1334
Death: p718/1334
Title: Re: France: Smagge, Matton & Roseau
Post by: Tati on Thursday 24 October 13 12:41 BST (UK)
Hello again Cherie  :)

I'm impressed at how much we already know. I hope this is not going to look like a mess later (didn't I read something about posts being modifiable for merely 24 hours? Someone please correct if I'm wrong, hadn't been on this site for ages)

Anyway, here we go: 

Marriage of Xavier Ambroise Matton & Reine Virginie Cailliau, BUYSSCHEURE page 652/1334
7 Oct 1834
Xavier Ambroise Maton, 37, born Bollezeele 29 pluviose an 5 (17 Feb 1797), residing Dunkerque. shoemaker, parents Michel François Bouduin Matton (died Bollezeele 14 May 1811) and Marie Catherine Adèle Ryngaert, menagère (housewife,, if a widow can be called that), residing Bollezeele, attending.
Reine Virginie Cailliard, 28, spinner, residing Buysscheure, born 18 Feb 1806, parents Jean-Baptiste Cailliard (died 16 Feb 1815) and Maria Jeanne Petronille Fenaert(?), menagère, residing Buysscheure, attending.
Presence Bertin Baert, 53, merchant, and François Ryckelynck, 34, farmer, both uterine brothers (that’s half-brothers on mother’s side) of the groom and residing Bollezeele. (+ wife’s brother and a 4th person)

Charlotte Stephanie Matton
BUYSSCHEURE
Birth: p717/1334 : Girl born previous day. Dad is 39, a baker, residing Buysscheure. Witnesses not related.
Death: p718/1334. Girl died previous day, aged 8 days, at father’s abode
Title: Re: France: Smagge, Matton & Roseau
Post by: Chezza84 on Thursday 24 October 13 12:57 BST (UK)
Hello again Cherie  :)

I'm impressed at how much we already know. I hope this is not going to look like a mess later (didn't I read something about posts being modifiable for merely 24 hours? Someone please correct if I'm wrong, hadn't been on this site for ages)
I think you are correct, went back to my first page and i cant change the first post :( well i will just keep a record in my file. And then mayby repost if we get alot more info in one family generation IYKWIM.
Title: Re: France: Smagge, Matton & Roseau
Post by: Chezza84 on Thursday 24 October 13 13:12 BST (UK)
Thanks for the Translations - i've updated my tree generations since i still can edit it.

was there a date on Charlotte Stephanie Matton birth and death in 1837 (sorry i left the date off before)
Title: Re: France: Smagge, Matton & Roseau
Post by: Chezza84 on Thursday 24 October 13 13:34 BST (UK)
Just a query François Ryckelynck was listed as Uterine Brother to Xavier Matton, also as son of Marie Catherine Cecile Ryngaert (Xavier Mum) by Marraige

His birth works out to be abt 1800 but Xavier was born in 1797 and his father didnt die until 14/05/1811, therefor Xavier's Parents would still be together when Francois was born.

So how would he fit into the family? could he be a brother in law to Xavier?
Title: Re: France: Smagge, Matton & Roseau
Post by: Chezza84 on Thursday 24 October 13 13:50 BST (UK)
I have found a death for a Francois Xavier Ryckelynck
1846 Bollezeele page 398/1129
Title: Re: France: Smagge, Matton & Roseau
Post by: Chezza84 on Thursday 24 October 13 13:54 BST (UK)
I'm impressed at how much we already know. I hope this is not going to look like a mess later (didn't I read something about posts being modifiable for merely 24 hours? Someone please correct if I'm wrong, hadn't been on this site for ages)
I too am very impressed at how far we have gotten, my grandmother is going to be so thrilled when i show her, my mum said she will have to tell her to prepare for another sleepless night, i went a visited her a few wks back and showed her information on her other side of the family and she couldnt sleep that night cause she was up thinking about all the new information.
Title: Re: France: Smagge, Matton & Roseau
Post by: Tati on Thursday 24 October 13 14:06 BST (UK)
I think the record isn't accurate as to Mr. Ryckelynck's relationship. We met him earlier on this thread, at Marie Catherine Cécilé Ryngart's death in 1836. He was said to be her "son by marriage" (married to a daughter, I suppose)

Charlotte Stephanie Matton birth registration 23 Apr 1837, death registration 29 Apr 1837

(The record Francois Xavier Ryckelynck - 1846 Bollezeele page 398/1129 is a birth record)
Title: Re: France: Smagge, Matton & Roseau
Post by: Chezza84 on Friday 25 October 13 04:29 BST (UK)
(The record Francois Xavier Ryckelynck - 1846 Bollezeele page 398/1129 is a birth record)
oooppppsss, i'll have to go searching for it again.
Title: Re: France: Smagge, Matton & Roseau
Post by: Chezza84 on Friday 25 October 13 04:41 BST (UK)
Found him, I can make out the name Baert in there so that must be his wife so its must be the correct record.

Please Translate
Francois Xavier Ryckelynck - 1877 Bollezeele page 882/892


Title: Re: France: Smagge, Matton & Roseau
Post by: Chezza84 on Friday 25 October 13 12:38 BST (UK)
Please Translate

Bollezeele births 1793-1802 page 12/540 bottom left
Child of Michel Matton & Marie Ryngeart
Title: Re: France: Smagge, Matton & Roseau
Post by: Chezza84 on Friday 25 October 13 13:07 BST (UK)
Bollezeele births 1793-1802 page 30-31/540
Pierre Matton

Also

page 53-54/540 Matton

page 118/540 pierre jean matton

page 144/540 Victoire Xavier Matton

page 207/540 Xavier Ambroise Matton
Title: Re: France: Smagge, Matton & Roseau
Post by: Tati on Friday 25 October 13 17:00 BST (UK)
Francois Xavier Ryckelynck - 1877 Bollezeele page 882/892
6 Feb 1877. Aged 77, rentier (annuitant), born & residing Bollezeele. Son of Michel and Marie Cécile (something), widower of Pélagie Cécile Baers, all 3 of whom died Bollezeele.
Died in the home of his son, (the informant) Charles Edouard Ryckelynck, 47, cultivateur (farmer) and François Pyck, nephew, 61, cultivateur. 

Bollezeele births 1793-1802 page 12/540 bottom left
Child of Michel Matton & Marie Ryngeart
26 Oct 1793.
Birth registration of a boy (Charles Benoit), born Bollezeele, aged 2 years - never seen this before. I wonder if it should say 2 days instead of 2 years.
Parents Michel Matton, farmer, 45, born Segerscappel and Marie Catherine Cécile Ryngaert. Informants the father + François Ryngaert, brewer, 42, born and residing Bollezeele.

page 30-31/540
22 thermidor an 2 (8 Aug 1794)
birth Pierre Jean Matton, born same day. Parents Michel François Xavier Bouduin Matton, farmer, born Zegerscappel and his wife Marie Catherine Cécile Ryngaert. Witnesses Jean (can't read), farmer, 49, b. Zegerscappel and Marie Jeanne Thérèse Degrasco(?), wife of François Ryngaert, 28, born Zegerscappel. Both residing Bollezeele.

page 53-54/540
5 thermidor an 2 (July 1794)
Death registration Micheline Thérèse Baert, 68, born Zegerscappel.
Informants Boudouin Matton, husband, rentier, 70, born Lederzeele & Michel Matton farmer, 45, b. Zegerscappel, both residing Bollezeele. 
Doesn't say her parents' names.

page 118/540 pierre jean matton
11 Frimaire an 3*
Death registration Pierre Jean Matton, aged 4 months, born Bollezeele (parents Michel & Marie).
Informant Michel Matton farmer, 45, b. Zegerscappel, father + someone unrelated.

page 144/540 Victoire Xavier Matton
28 Nivôse an 4*
birth Victoire Xaverie (should be Xavière I suppose) Matton born previous day. Parents' details as usual (Michel and Marie)
Witness Pierre Jean Ryngaert, bachelor, 32, residing Buysscheure and Rosalie Drieux, wife of Jean Baptiste Ryngaert, 26, residing Bollezeele.

page 207/540 Xavier Ambroise Matton
29 pluviose an 5*
Birth Xavier Ambroise Matton, parents Michel & Marie details as usual
Witnesses don't seem to be related 

*Here's a link to a date converter
http://www.poissons52.fr/histoire/revolution1789/calendrier_v.php

Did you have a look at the tree Garstonite posted a link to ? Lots of information on there.
http://gw.geneanet.org/becuwe?lang=en&v=MATTON&m=N

 :)
Title: Re: France: Smagge, Matton & Roseau
Post by: Chezza84 on Tuesday 29 October 13 09:07 GMT (UK)
Can someone please translate

Bollezeele 1793-1802 deaths page 354/540 left page - Matton
Title: Re: France: Smagge, Matton & Roseau
Post by: Chezza84 on Tuesday 29 October 13 09:40 GMT (UK)
Can someone please translate

ZEGERSCAPPEL 1666-1753
Matton page 984/992
Matton page 976/992
Matton page 975/992
Title: Re: France: Smagge, Matton & Roseau
Post by: Chezza84 on Tuesday 29 October 13 10:10 GMT (UK)
Can someone please translate

ZEGERSCAPPEL 1666-1753
Matton page 931/992
Matton page 865/992
Title: Re: France: Smagge, Matton & Roseau
Post by: Chezza84 on Tuesday 29 October 13 11:23 GMT (UK)
Can someone please translate

ZEGERSCAPPEL 1666-1753
Marraige Matton page 801/992

Thanks in advance