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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: Logans daughter on Wednesday 16 October 13 12:33 BST (UK)

Title: Melbourne marriage Logan
Post by: Logans daughter on Wednesday 16 October 13 12:33 BST (UK)
Would it be possible to find if Daniel Logan born 1827 an immigrant from Liverpool married in Melbourne

Daniel arrived there aboard the Monteagle in 1854 and died there in 1902.

Daniels parents were Daniel Logan and Ann Shiels

Thank you in advance for any help or information

Pam

Title: Re: Melbourne marriage Logan
Post by: ~MERLIN~ on Wednesday 16 October 13 14:13 BST (UK)
He died in 1904.

Death:

LOGAN Danl age 77yrs d. 1904 BALLT NAZ H #3655
Father: Danl LOGAN
Mother: Ann SHIELS

Burial:

http://ballaratcemeteries.com.au/php/sitesummary.php?id=9555
Title: Re: Melbourne marriage Logan
Post by: ~MERLIN~ on Wednesday 16 October 13 14:49 BST (UK)
I can't see a marriage on the VIC index for him.
Perhaps he lived in more than one state?

Resources:

http://www.rootschat.com/links/0wik/
Title: Re: Melbourne marriage Logan
Post by: Logans daughter on Wednesday 16 October 13 15:54 BST (UK)
Thank you for taking the time to look Merlin.
It's very much appreciated

Pam
Title: Re: Melbourne marriage Logan
Post by: ~MERLIN~ on Wednesday 16 October 13 16:04 BST (UK)
Do you have his death certificate?

This is what can be recorded on Victorian BMD certificates:

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,373754.0.html

You can purchase online & download it immediately for a cost of $20AU.

https://online.justice.vic.gov.au/bdm/index-search?action=purchaseImage
Title: Re: Melbourne marriage Logan
Post by: Logans daughter on Wednesday 16 October 13 16:31 BST (UK)
No I don't.

A lady discovered the below information of his death just a few days ago

Daniel Logan death place Balt Naz H. Victoria. aged 77. Estimated birth year 1827
Parents Daniel Logan and Ann Shiels
Reg number 3655

Is the above enough as I live in England and don't know the Australian rules and regulations.

Pam
Title: Re: Melbourne marriage Logan
Post by: ~MERLIN~ on Wednesday 16 October 13 16:45 BST (UK)
Yes, I gave you that information above & also the link to purchase it.

He died as an inmate of Nazareth House Ballarat.

This will give you some information about the place, it is still an aged care facility.

http://www.findandconnect.gov.au/guide/vic/E000169

http://www.findandconnect.gov.au/ref/vic/biogs/E000752b.htm
Title: Re: Melbourne marriage Logan
Post by: Logans daughter on Wednesday 16 October 13 17:07 BST (UK)
Thank you so much Merlin.
Title: Re: Melbourne marriage Logan
Post by: ~MERLIN~ on Wednesday 16 October 13 18:06 BST (UK)
Hospital records:

Creswick Hospital Admissions Register
LOGAN Daniel
Age: 45
PoB: England
Status: Single
Occupation: Labourer
Residence: tramp
Date admitted: 26 Jan 1873


Ballarat Hospital Admissions Register
LOGAN Daniel
Age: 60
PoB: Liverpool, England
Status: Widower
Occupation: Miner
Residence: Waterloo
Date admitted: 7 May 1888
Title: Re: Melbourne marriage Logan
Post by: maz591 on Thursday 17 October 13 00:20 BST (UK)
He was buried in the Ballarat New Cemetery on 28 May 1904 aged 77

Area :   RCA
   Roman Catholic A
Section :   -9
   Section 9
Row :   
Grave :   56
Title: Re: Melbourne marriage Logan
Post by: CassT on Thursday 17 October 13 02:24 BST (UK)
Hi there is a marriage in NSW 

Name: Emily Salisbury  Spouse Name: Daniel Logan
Marriage Date: 1884 Marriage Place: New South Wales Registration Place: Waterloo, Registration Year: 1884  Registration number: 3282

I know it is a stab in the dark, but Waterloo matches. 

If its him there is a tree on Ancestry which gives details of a son John Edward , who served during WW1, the tree indicates he was born 1879, and religion RC

http://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/NameSearch/Interface/ItemDetail.aspx?Barcode=8204359

good luck

Cass
Title: Re: Melbourne marriage Logan
Post by: ~MERLIN~ on Thursday 17 October 13 03:32 BST (UK)
Hi there is a marriage in NSW 
Name: Emily Salisbury  Spouse Name: Daniel Logan
Marriage Date: 1884 Marriage Place: New South Wales Registration Place: Waterloo, Registration Year: 1884  Registration number: 3282
I know it is a stab in the dark, but Waterloo matches. 
If its him there is a tree on Ancestry which gives details of a son John Edward , who served during WW1, the tree indicates he was born 1879, and religion RC

Cass, the WATERLOO I quoted above from the Ballarat Admission Registers is in VICTORIA about 30 miles from BALLARAT  ;)

And that birth you quoted was registered 1881 NSW:

LOGAN John E b. 1881 SYDNEY #3667 - Parents: DANIEL & EMILY C

I had already checked this family & found that Daniel died in 1905 reg'd at LIVERPOOL, NSW & Emily remarried in 1905 to James COXALL reg'd at MARRICKVILLE, NSW.
Title: Re: Melbourne marriage Logan
Post by: CassT on Thursday 17 October 13 04:23 BST (UK)
Oh well, as I said a "Stab in the dark"
I did not know that there is a Waterloo in Vic, should have checked before posting
sorry
Cass
Title: Re: Melbourne marriage Logan
Post by: ~MERLIN~ on Thursday 17 October 13 04:46 BST (UK)
Oh well, as I said a "Stab in the dark"
I did not know that there is a Waterloo in Vic, should have checked before posting
sorry
Cass

No need to be sorry... people learn something new everyday  :)
Title: Re: Melbourne marriage Logan
Post by: Logans daughter on Thursday 17 October 13 19:07 BST (UK)
Thank you so much for all the information.

I didn't expect to be able to see hospital admissions. It's a bit overwhelming to see Tramp on his records
Reading about Nazareth House was sad but something that had to be done.
It's a shame he didn't seem to have a really good life. I feel so sad for him.

Does Australia not have census records like we do here in the Uk? It would have been good to follow his trail from when he left England.

Thank you again.

Kind regards

Pam

Title: Re: Melbourne marriage Logan
Post by: sparrett on Thursday 17 October 13 23:16 BST (UK)
Thank you so much for all the information.

I didn't expect to be able to see hospital admissions. It's a bit overwhelming to see Tramp on his records
Reading about Nazareth House was sad but something that had to be done.
It's a shame he didn't seem to have a really good life. I feel so sad for him.

Does Australia not have census records like we do here in the Uk? It would have been good to follow his trail from when he left England.

Thank you again.

Kind regards

Pam



No, Australia does not hold much useful census information in the same way  as Britain.
However our BMD certificates, Electoral Roll information and other resources are informative and in my opinion, more than compensate for the lack of census.

For your records, though not adding much to your queries, here is a registration to vote
 
1903

LOGAN, Daniel.  Nazareth House . Mills Street, Ballarat.

Sue
Title: Re: Melbourne marriage Logan
Post by: Logans daughter on Friday 18 October 13 14:15 BST (UK)
Hi Sue.

Thank you for the information.
It's very enlightening how different countries work.
and always good to know.

I'm hopeless on where to even start.
Here we have a free BMD site that I've spent months and months trawling through for different rellie's.
Having the census to work off was really helpful though as you say with electoral rolls too it can be as good
I just don't have a clue how to go about it.
It feels a daunting task mainly because Australia's so far away.

Thanks again for the above info on Daniel. I really appreciate your help

Pam
Title: Re: Melbourne marriage Logan
Post by: sparrett on Saturday 19 October 13 01:41 BST (UK)
As Maz has mentioned, Daniel is buried at Ballarat New Cemetery.

For your further interest, he is the only interment in that grave, so if he was a widower as stated on the Hospital record, he was not buried with his wife.

Perhaps it was a "common law" arrangement between Daniel and his "wife"

I suspect there will be not much more on the public record about Daniel, but you may find the death certificate of interest.

The download is very simple and just requires a cred/debit card. You have in hand all you need to fill out the online form. You will view it immediately after payment.

Sue
Title: Re: Melbourne marriage Logan
Post by: Logans daughter on Saturday 19 October 13 10:49 BST (UK)
Thanks Sue.

I just didn't know if there were any other records in existence to try.

I'll get his certificate at the beginning of next month. Payday.

Thank you everyone for all your help.

Kind regards

Pam
Title: Re: Melbourne marriage Logan
Post by: Logans daughter on Wednesday 25 December 13 12:32 GMT (UK)
I have downloaded Daniels death cert and found it only contains the name of his wife in England Sarah Mosley.
It states unknown if he had another wife
It does however verify his mothers maiden name of Shiels.
I am really pleased with that, at least I can give him his rightful place on my family tree and he will never be forgotten in England.

Thank you everyone for your help I really appreciate it

Merry Christmas and all the best for a happy and healthy 2014

Pam
Title: Re: Melbourne marriage Logan
Post by: cathaldus on Thursday 26 December 13 20:21 GMT (UK)
Hi Pam,

Certainly interested in your subject!

Bill
Title: Re: Melbourne marriage Logan
Post by: cando on Friday 27 December 13 03:04 GMT (UK)
Baptisms St Mary's Roman Catholic Church, Liverpool 1802-1906
5th Aug 1827.  Baptised Daniel, son of Daniel and Ann LOGAN born 3st1 ult.  Sponsors Philip HUGHES and Mary MAHON by me Thomas FISHER.

My resource has a little more information.....

Creswick Hospital In Patients Admissions Register 1863-1882 
LOGAN Daniel 
Hospital record
26 Jan 1873
Tramp   [I've seen this before if the patient didn't have a permanent residence]
Birth Place England.
Age  45 years   
Status Single
Occupation Labourer
How long in colony  19 years
Religion Roman Catholic
Result was - Cured or Convalesced    Discharged on 20 Mar 1873

Ballarat Hospital Admissions Register 1856-1913
LOGAN Daniel
Hospital record
7 May 1888
Place [residence] Waterloo
Born Liverpool, England
Age 60 
Status  Widowed
Occupation Miner
How long in colony - 34 years
Religion Roman Catholic
Comment:  Name of Recommender or remarks -  Lexton Council

I wonder if the status widowed was assumed by the staff simply because he didn't have a wife's name to enter on the admissions register.

Cando
Title: Re: Melbourne marriage Logan
Post by: Logans daughter on Friday 27 December 13 09:44 GMT (UK)
Hi Bill

Do you have Logan connections?

Pam
Title: Re: Melbourne marriage Logan
Post by: Logans daughter on Friday 27 December 13 09:55 GMT (UK)
Hi Cando

That is Daniel's baptism you have posted.

It could well be an assumption by the staff. Or maybe he preferred to class himself as a widower rather than try and explain why his wife and son were in England and he was there!

Thanks for explaining that he may not have been a real tramp but between residences as it were..... It does sound far better doesn't it!

I was hoping he had married and had a good life but maybe he had one anyway.

His death record lists his wife Sarah Mosley and his parents but says unknown at another marriage and his issue was nil. Would that have been children only born in Australia?

Daniel's son Daniel was registered twice in 1851 Liverpool. Once by himself and once by Sarah. Both registrations had the same details on them
Two registrations of the same birth are very unusual but the lady at the registry office assured me it was the same child, which I found strange. Unless Daniel had registered his son while under the influence...and perhaps forgot!!

It would have been so good to find out more about his life but I have no idea where to look as I live in England.

Pam
Title: Re: Melbourne marriage Logan
Post by: cathaldus on Friday 27 December 13 12:12 GMT (UK)
Hi Pam,
My interest in the Logan family is within the British Isles.   Manchester and Leeds in the UK and County Mayo in Ireland.   I notice that you list Birstall is your "interests" and I remember well a related family of mine (Logan, of course!) living there.  The Christian name Bernard rings a bell!
Any connection on your side?

Bill
Title: Re: Melbourne marriage Logan
Post by: Logans daughter on Friday 27 December 13 12:21 GMT (UK)
Hi Bill

To be honest I only know of my great great grandfather Daniel and his brother John of the Logan males though there was an older brother Bernard born in Ireland before the family came to Liverpool.
Whether or not there were any other brothers that may have settled out of Liverpool I don't know

My Birstall and all Yorkshire links are on my mothers side of Cowdell, Patchett, Walker and Webster that I know of for definite.

If I do find any links I will post them for sure

Regards

Pam

Title: Re: Melbourne marriage Logan
Post by: softly softly on Friday 27 December 13 14:54 GMT (UK)
Hi, reading through the post am I right in thinking you have never found a marriage of Daniel Logan to Sarah Mosley. There is a strong contender but the surname has been recorded as Lyon. I only say this as I have had several surnames miss represented on certificates in the past. This marriage is Sept quarter 1850, Liverpool 20 204. Daniel and Sarah appear together without children in 1851 census ref HO107 564 34 19.

John
Title: Re: Melbourne marriage Logan
Post by: Logans daughter on Friday 27 December 13 16:55 GMT (UK)
Hi John

Thank you for your post but I do have Daniel and Sarah's marriage in Liverpool.
Mistranscriptions have played a big part in my research in my other surnames too as well as Daniels brother John, it can play havoc if you don't keep an open mind in researching can't it!

I'm looking for any possible marriage Daniel might have had in Australia.

Pam