RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: Jason46 on Tuesday 15 October 13 01:10 BST (UK)
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My Great Grandmother, Jane or Jean Flett, told her daughter that she arrived in Australia on the White Swan, but her name is not recorded in the unassisted passengers and there is no list of assisted passengers and it seems that there may have been no assisted passengers on this trip from Scotland. She would have had to arrive between her marriage in Scotland in 1855 and the birth of a child in Australia in 1862. There was a Mrs Flett on the Black Swan but she was English and had a 1-month old infant. How did great granny get to Australia?
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It looks as though the time frame for Jane's arrival is between 1855 when she had the baby in Scotland and 1861/2 when a birth was registered in Victoria.
As you have said, it's possible that she had arrived at another port and travelled interstate on the White Swan, which we have established was a coastal steamer mainly travelling between Adelaide and Melbourne.
What was John FLETT's occupation after he arrived in Australia? By co-incidence, when searching TROVE for possible passenger mentions on the White Swan I came across a John FLETT who was master of a small ship (10 tons) travelling regularly from Port Adelaide to Kangaroo Island).
There are two passengers named SMITH on the Black Swan, same voyage as 'Mrs Flett' - Henry aged 43 (who does not appear to be Jane's brother) and Elizabeth E aged 6
Do you have the birth or death certificate for the baby John FLETT, buried at Williamstown, 7 Jan 1862?
I'll be at the National Library but not for a couple of weeks so will have a look at the fiche for the Black Swan's voyage.
Judith
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Death
FLETT Jane
Father Smith
Mother Jane
Age 56
Death Place WTOWN
Year 1886
Reg 4021
Death Notice
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0wic/
To learn more her arrival you would need to purchase the certificate. An uncertified image can be downloaded to your computer immediately upon payment of about Aus. $20.00. You will need the registration number which is given above on the index entry.
https://online.justice.vic.gov.au/bdm/index-search?action=purchaseImage
This link shows what you may see on all Victorian certificates. How complete and accurate the information is, depends on the knowledge of the informant.
http://www.jaunay.com/bdm.html
Hopefully it will tell you how long she had been in Australia so narrow down your time frame a little
Sue
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Previous thread:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=630726.msg5098285#msg5098285
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There are 3 John Flett Children. The first was still born in the Orkneys, the 2nd according to the headstone in the Williamstown Cemetery died 6 January 1861 aged 3 weeks and the third died 23 April 1888 aged 25 years. Someone here mentioned a son who died in 1862???? Their is a date wrong here for the second John.
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I have Jane Flett's death certificate. Who ever completed it did not know her father's name, and it states that on 8 January 1886, she had been in the colony for 25 years which may be a rounded figure. If accurate, she arrived in 1861??
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I do not have a death certificate for the 2nd John. There is no certificate for the first John who died in the Orkneys, only a note that he was 'steal born'. The headstone for the 2nd John states that he died 6 Jan 1861 aged 3 weeks. Jane had 7 brothers and they were Magnus (born 1845) William (43) James (41) Thomas (37) John (32, who was a gold miner and a ship's carpenter) Simon (26, the only brother mentioned in family notes) and Robert (1824). John Flett the father worked for Duke and Orr, the dry-dockers and he eventually became a partner in the firm and according to family legend, this firm lengthened the Black Swan in their dry dock.
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Who ever completed it did not know her father's name
Who was the informant, please?
Sue
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The Williamstown cemetery search gives the date of the service for John FLETT as 7 Jan 1862, not 1861 which would allow for Jane to have been on the Black Swan in Jan 1861. Unfortunately there are no further records as to birth dates for this person on the indexed Williamstown deceased search so perhaps this is not the right burial.
You probably already know that there are these burials in the Presbyterian section, Williamstown cemetery. I can't get the map to load to see if they are near each other:
James FLETT, burial 25 Oct 1896
Jane FLETT, 10 Jan 1886
John FLETT, 24 Apr 1888
John FLETT, 07 Jan 1862
John FLETT, 08 Mar 1912
There are also two 20th century burials in the C of E section
James Ford FLETT, 14 May 1969
James Ford FLETT, 13 Apr 1934
http://www.gmct.com.au/deceased-search.aspx
Judith
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On another thread, I have just been told that the 2nd John' s death date on his headstone is not 1861 but should be 1862, which is interesting, but it still does not tell me when my Jane Flett (nee Smith) arrived as the Jane Flett who arrived on the Black Swan was English, not Scottish and was accompanied by a 1-month female infant. I have also been told that there was a Mrs Pilett aged 35 on the Black Swan which arrived in Port Philip Bay on 5th January 1861, but I can't find her. Jane had 7 brothers and i put their named down on another thread but do not have them on me at the moment.
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I can see that the headstone says that baby John died in 1861, but I would contact the cemetery for a double check of the burial date. The headstone was erected some time after his death and it is not unusual for errors to be made. Both the burial record and the death registration say that the death was in 1862. http://billiongraves.com/pages/record/JohnFlett/2609294
For your purposes it is important to establish how long Jane had been in Australia - most likely at least 9 months before the birth of the child. I am no expert, but I don't think that a baby that was overly premature would have lived for as long as 3 weeks in 1861.
I wouldn't worry too much about the English/Irish/Scottish thing on immigration records as we have proven them to be incorrect in the past. Ages can also be incorrect.
The "Mrs PILETT" is a transcription error on Ancestry.com's passenger lists and is the same person as "Mrs FLETT" on the PROV indexes. They have transcribed independently from PROV, but I do find that PROV is more reliable with names.
I cannot see a female infant with her, is that on the microfiche?
Debra :)
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I would have to recheck but I believe that the Mrs Flett on the Black Swan was English and had a 1-month old female infant with her. If the 2nd son John died at 3 weeks of age in Jan 1862, then the Black Swan becomes a possibility as it arrived in Jan 1861, but their still seems to be a lot of inconsistencies. Do you know what port the Black Swan left from? If it was a Scottish port, marking a Scot as an English person seems to be more than just trivial
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I have asked a moderator to merge the two threads on Jane FLETT.
The recording of nationality was just for statistics and a tick in the wrong box was of no great relevance, though the passengers themselves would probably disagree!
Here are the details of Jane's brothers from a previous thread.
Hi Monica
I just finished sorting out all the info I have on Jean Smith's seven brothers. I believe that the Mrs. Flett on the Black Swan in 1861 is her, and if she was accompanied by a brother he would be a Smith and there are 7 brothers. Magnus (45 in 1861), William (43), James (41), Thomas (37), John (32) Simon (26) and Robert (24). John was a gold miner who returned to Orkneys, and he was a ship's carpenter and he is my best bet although Simon is the only brother whose name appears in family papers so he is my 2nd bet. Can you find me any of these Smith boys?
Debra :)
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Thank you for this assistance. Let me give you some information which I hope will be pertinent. Jane was born 24 August 1827 and died 8 January, 1886, which meant she was 58 when she died, not 56 which is stated on the headstone and her death Certificate. Her husband was the informant. I have some discharge papers for him showing that he was a ship's carpenter on the Patriot out of South Shields from March 1846 to August 1849, and was working on the British Tan out of South Shields on the Cork - Llannelly Quebec run from 1851 to 1854, and that he arrived in Australia 24 Dec 1854 on the Stebonheath. It seems very unlikely he made another trip to Australia before 1854 and I believe he was working all of the time in Australia at the Wright Orr and Co docks which he eventually became a partner in. I have a birth Cert and Baptism Cert from the Society School in Harray which was extracted from the Registry of Births for the Parish of Harray (Orkney). Interestingly, this document was requested on 22nd Feb 1850, which he may have needed when he started working outside Scotland. Can you give me the document details that I would need to get the death certificate for the 2nd Son whose date of death is 1862. Interestingly, in John's hand writing on his birth certificate are the birth and death dates of all 3 sons named John, and the 2nd son was recorded as dying 2nd January 1861.
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I wonder if there is some confusion here especially if the headstone was erected years after the event. There was a death of a John FLETT who was three years old in 1861.
Death
FLETT John
Father James Mother Isabella PATTERSON
3 years Born Melbourne 1861 Reg#881
According to the death registration John died in 1862 not 1861. If it is your person of interest and the day and month ie 6 Jan are correct then he was born 16 Dec 1861.
Death
FLETT John
Father John Mother Jane Unknown
1862 3 weeks Born Williamstown Reg#3235
The only document which will identify John's date of death is his death certificate.
You can purchase an image of this online and immediately download. You will need the registration number.
https://online.justice.vic.gov.au/bdm/index-search?action=purchaseImage
Interestingly, in John's hand writing on his birth certificate are the birth and death dates of all 3 sons named John, and the 2nd son was recorded as dying 2nd January 1861.
The local registrars completed the information in the registers from oral information from the informants. The informants did not write in the register other than his/her signature or mark etc. The registrars often wrote the description and residence also.
Obviously the father made an error with the year of death.
Headstones are not always accurate and in this case I would certainly require at least two other sources for the date of death.
Apologies if I have duplicated info.
Cando
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Someone here mentioned a son who died in 1862???? Their is a date wrong here for the second John.
Two sources [death registration and Williamstown cemetery database] state the death was in 1862 and it is obviously an error on the headstone which may have been erected years later.
I have posted this info on the other thread.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=630726.msg5098285#msg5098285
Death
FLETT John
Father John Mother Jane Unknown
1862 3 weeks Born Williamstown Reg#3235
Williamstown Cemetery
FLETT John
Interred on 7 Jan 1862
PRES*A*8**3
Area [W] Presbyterian
Cando
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The White Swan on one of my CD's appears to be a costal steamer sailing from Melbourne to Adelaide (in 1855.) Maybe your lady arrived from overseas at Adelaide, or even Portland Vic. Just a thought?
Cherokee
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Hi Cando and Jude
Could you give me the information I need to access the death register and the Williamstown Cemetery database so that I can get a copy of these. I checked out the rootschat article and it only gives the information, not where I could access it. Jude i would appreciate it if you do get the chance to look at the Black Swan passenger list. So many mistakes on the headstone and on the father's notes- date of death of son, age at date of death of wife. Thank you for very helpful advice and assistance
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You cannot access the death register. I have given you transcribed information from a death index.
You can also search here but it is free to search but pay to view the index only. Same information as I have given you from another resource.
https://online.justice.vic.gov.au/bdm/index-search?action=getHistIdxSearchCriteria
You can purchase and download an image of the death certificate which will be on a page of the register. I have given you the link in a previous reply.
You can search Williamstown Cemetery on this database.
http://www.gmct.com.au/deceased-search.aspx
Cando
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Hi Cando
I finally found the 1862 date in Ancestry after having no luck with Williamstown Cemetery. I hope my lack of knowledge is not testing your patience. I have tried to send you an attachment but Rootschat won't let me. I have found another letter re Jane and the White Swan and underneath is the following
Canada Venice Bridge at _____ (Could be Size, definitely -i-e)
America Quebeck (Sic)
I have no idea what it means
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Jason on the link
http://www.gmct.com.au/deceased-search.aspx
Scroll down to Williamstown > deceased search
Right of the page - Cemetery - drop down menu - Click on Williamstown
Enter FLETT in the surname and all the FLETT burials at Williamstown will appear.
You can then click on your person of interest and wait - be patient - and details of the deceased will appear in a box at the right of the page.
So from the list of all the FLETT burials you will have the location and from the right of the page in the next window you will have details of the deceased.
I hope you can follow my instructions.... not my strong point :-[
Cheers :)
Cando