RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: kathy mason on Monday 14 October 13 20:23 BST (UK)
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Trying to find what I should use for parish and borough names to try and look up admission history for Chase Farm School for the early 1900'S.
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Also if anyone has any ideas on where to go to find info. My grandmother was born in Edmonton (maybe) she had 3 siblings who I found all 4 at Chase Middle school in the 1911 census. Not sure of her mom or dads name but she gave Alfred Atkins and Maud from London as her parents on her marriage certificate in Winnipeg Manitoba Canada. There are no relatives for me to contact for any more info. I live in Nova Scotia and your parishes , boroughs etc have me stumped. Started randomly picking them but I'd like to narrow it down below 2 million plus entires to look thru!! Thanks for any help
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Can you post the names of the children?
We might be able to track them down.
I see that Chase Farm School was an orphanage - so we aren't going to find the parents in 1911 ::)
Have a look at http://www.workhouses.org.uk/Edmonton/.
Chase Farm is towards the end, but makes interesting reading!
That site says records are with the London Metropolitan Archives (and possibly on Ancestry?)
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Edmonton House Religous Creed 1908 -1913
Atkins, Alice Maud 26/4/1899, from Edmonton, mother Martha Atkins, Edmonton Workhouse, admitted 19/10/1910, discharged to Chase Farm School 28/10/1910
Atkins, Margaret Annie, 12/12/1902, ditto
Atkins, Alfred, 4/10/1903, ditto
Atkins, Rose, 2/5/1905, ditto
Martha Elizabeth Atkins in Edmonton Workhouse, b1883, charwoman, from 9 Griffin Crescent, Edmonton, relative Mrs Atkins crossed out W Atkins, 18 Templeton W Rd, Tottenham.
Jo :)
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So their mother is still alive in 1911!
1911 census information removed in accordance with Rootschat policies. Information from the free indexes only maybe posted here
Jo :)
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William ATKINS married Margaret Mary DAY 27 Jul 1879 at All Saints' Church, Newington, Southwark, Surrey. William ATKINS, age 30, bachelor, butcher, living 6 Astley Street, father Reuben ATKINS a farm labourer; Margaret Mary DAY, age 26, spinster, living 6 Aylesbury Street, father William DAY a mechanic. Witnesses were George Neil SIMONS and Mary Ellen LOCKE.
Margaret came from Standon in Hertfordshire. William from Missenden in Buckinghamshire.
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There are records for Alfred Atkins, age 11 & Margaret Atkins, age 13, both from Edmonton, being taken into care by the Salvation Army and sent to Canada as Home Children in 1914 aboard the Alaunia.
http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/databases/home-children/001015-119.02-e.php?&id_nbr=234&&PHPSESSID=gopqtg3ceruq2o9ndfic0u5877
Jo :)
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The Passenger list for the Laurentic from Liverpool to Quebec, sent by the Salvation Army, dep 24 Jun 1913 has the following:
Martha Eliz Atkins, housewife, 32
Alice Maud Atkins, domestic, 14
Rose Atkins, child, 8
Nice to know their mother came with them :)
Jo
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That's good news Jo.
It must have been very difficult for her with those children and no help in those days, as we know the workhouses were awful and a last resort. I'm glad that they had a chance of a new life together. I hope she joined up with her other children too.
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Sadly, it looks like Martha May possibly have died in 1916 :(
Name: Martha Atkins
Death Date: 1916
Death Place: Briercrest, Saskatchewan, Canada
There is a note on the marriage of 17 year old Alice Maud, something about "this girl has no present guardians......?" but I can't read it clearly.
Hopefully the siblings remained close...
Jo :)
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Wow Jomcd...thank you soo much for the info. I have spent weeks trying to figure this out. Just new at this ancestry stuff...got the subscription to Ancestry but need help finding where to start. I did find the record of what I thought was Alfred and Margaret Atkins coming over on the Aluania and Mrs ME, Miss AM and Miss R Atkins coming over on the Empire of Britain. I hoped I had the right family. All my mother remembers is that Rose came from England as an orphan to a farm in Saskatchewan. I found Alice Maud's marriage in Ontario. Rose married my grandfather (on my dad's side) in Winnipeg in 1924 and they had my dad and his brother. They have all passed on. I found a lot of paperwork on my dad's fathers family Buzza from Cornwall and now starting on the Atkins side. Do you think Martha Elizabeth was married to Alfred Atkins? or maybe were both their names Atkins by coincidence. It would be amazing if I could go back farther. I did read a lot of info on the workhouses etc. What a horrible time in history. I am struggling with the locations, parishes etc in England since that is so different from the divisions here. Also I had to print a map of England to get some sense of where places are.
I will now try to trace back Martha Elizabeth and Alfred but if you have any suggestions of where to look that would be awesome. I had never heard of the creed registry which was a help but I guess I got bogged down going thru every record. I was in the admissions and discharges from workhouses and had gone thru all the records from 1899 to 1910 with no luck..talk about being lost. I really appreciate all the help you have given me so far. This is so interesting and addictive
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Hi Kathy, yes it is addictive! All of that was found on Ancestry, the Poor Law records you have to go through by page, London England Poor Law and Board of Guardian Records 1430 - 1930/borough is Enfield/parish is Edmonton. The passenger records and census records had the rest. I think that Martha was most likely a single mother as she is not shown as married in 1911. I can't seem to find a baptism for any of the children and your next step would most likely be to spend a bit of money on some birth certificates for any of the children to see what they say, it may be a bit hit and miss unfortunately. If she never married then you may never know who the father(s) was. Another option is to see what information was given on Martha's death certificate, remembering that it is always second hand information and not necessarily correct. Good luck and don't hesitate to ask if you have any other questions.
Regards, Jo :)
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I am struggling with the locations, parishes etc in England since that is so different from the divisions here. Also I had to print a map of England to get some sense of where places are.
OK! Some tips ;D
www.genuki.org .uk has very good information re counties (and clickable maps!).
From there, try the Parishes and Towns page on every county page.
FreeBMD allows you to click on the Registration District name, which gives information about the district, and a link to the relevant GenUKI page on the district - with all the parishes.
Our divisions go from Country, County Registration District, Parish and maybe towns & villages.
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Atkins, Alice Maud 26/4/1899, from Edmonton, mother Martha Atkins, Edmonton Workhouse, admitted 19/10/1910, discharged to Chase Farm School 28/10/1910
Atkins, Margaret Annie, 12/12/1902, ditto
Atkins, Alfred, 4/10/1903, ditto
Atkins, Rose, 2/5/1905, ditto
From birth registrations on freebmd, some of the birthdates given on the creed register may be incorrect. The workhouse clerk would have probably only written what they were told.
Like Jo I can't find baptisms for any of the children. On freebmd.org I found these possible registrations:
[1] Alice Maud reg Edmonton 1899 Q1 3 a 440 [so can't be an April birthdate]
[2] Margaret Annie - struggling to find a suitable registration - although there is a Mary Annie reg Hendon 1900 Q4 3a 172 [Margaret was said to be 13 on emigration in 1914 so this is possible - a birthdate of 12/12/02 would have made Margaret Annie 12 in 1914]
[3] Alfred reg Edmonton 1903 Q2 3a 649 [so can't be an October birthdate]
[4] Rose reg Hendon 1905 Q1 3a 288 [so can't be a May birthdate]
Josey
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Had a lightbulb moment last night - OH calls it processing off line - that the birthdays of [at least] the last 2 children could be in US format ie mm/dd/yyyy rather than UK dd/mm/yyyy. This doesn't account for Alice Maud though ???
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Actually last night I made a lot of progress....found Rose's mom Martha's family and found Marthas parents. Have to spend a bit of time catching up on paperwork from my husbands company...apparently the world won't shut down for me to do my geneology...but I was so excited so bookmarked the places and printed off a bunch of stuff. I do have some more questions but I want to get them in order...you guys answer too fast. Thanks for all the help so far. The parents I found lived on Reform Row in 1891 and one of the questions I had was if that was a "poor" section. The other questions will have to wait a day or so till I get caught up
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Google 'Booth's poverty map' :)