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General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: cazza59 on Monday 14 October 13 08:56 BST (UK)
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Hi All
I've recently discovered that a relative, a Sergeant Major William Henry Foster was in the Royal Engineers and was killed in an accident in 1922 while working on the Peking - Mudken Railway. In a newspaper clipping we found about his death, it states that he "drove the train that took Marshal Joffre from Mudken to Shanghaikwan".
Can anyone give me some more information about the Royal Engineers, e.g. how it would have come about that he ended up in China, in fact anything at all that I can use as background information or how I can go about researching his background.
Prior to being in China, he was in India arriving sometime between 1906 and 1911, if that helps. :-\
Fingerscrossed!
Kind regards
Caroline
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Hi Caroline
If you know his army number you can apply to the MOD for his service record. As he died while serving you do not have to supply a copy of his death certificate. If you do not have this it may be better to contact the Royal Engineers museum. As they may have something on a senior NCO.
Like all major powers, the UK had troops in China until the communist revolution. This increased after the Boxer rebellion so foreign powers could protect their legations in Peking. The British North China Command was in Tientsin, a city with 6-7 foreign concessions. Nearby Weihaiwei was a British colony from 1898 to 1930.
Ken
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Hi Ken
Thank you for responding. We actually just got his death certificate, but up until a couple of days ago, had no idea he was in the army, so unfortunately we don't have his army number. I will try and contact the RE museum as you suggest.
I'm going through Ancestry records at the moment to see if his service record is there but no luck so far.
Thank you for your assistance, very much appreciated!
Kind regards
Caroline
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I'm going through Ancestry records at the moment to see if his service record is there but no luck so far.
Hi Caroline
Ancestry may have a record for medal(s) for WW1 and/or India. But it will not have his service record, as they only have them for men discharged 1914 to 1920. If he was serving in 1911 they will also have him in the census of that year, even if he was serving overseas. The one exception is Ireland which are online separately. One problem with the 1911 Irish census is that men in institutions, including the army, are only recorded by their initials. Wives and children of soldiers are however recorded separately in full.
Ken
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Pardon my stupidity, but to you mean he will be on the English 1911 census because we've searched high and low, or do you mean on the Indian 1911 census?
Two of his daughters were sent back to England from India in 1912, while his wife returned to England from India in 1914 presumably because she was pregnant and of course, WWI starting. I think it's possible he may have returned to the UK by 1916 and then went out to China. According to the newspaper snippet, his wife and two youngest children had only just joined him in China shortly before he was killed (1921/22) in an "accident" with no further details. Even his death certificate simply states "accident" which seems a bit odd to me and would have expected some sort of description e.g. killed by landslide; hit by train but no, so I'm really keen to get his service record as hopefully it will contain further details.
Once again, thank you for your interest!
Caroline
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All overseas military census for 1911 comes under England as the county of 'Military'. However any search would include this, so you should have found him or his family.
What were names/ages of his wife and children in 1911?
Ken
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Hi Caz, I know you posted a long time ago, but I have relatives with those names, are you also relations? Re
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Hi PDoddle
I just responded to you on the other post before reading this one!! Just to reaffirm, I am connected to William Henry Foster who was married to Annie Wilkinson, children Rose, Naomi and Harry all born in Brighton.
Fingerscrossed we have a connection!
Caz
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All overseas military census for 1911 comes under England as the county of 'Military'. However any search would include this, so you should have found him or his family.
What were names/ages of his wife and children in 1911?
Ken
I am so sorry Ken, I don't know how I missed your last post, but I do apologise for overlooking your comment! I am very appreciative of you taking the time to search and respond on my behalf so please accept my apologies for the oversight! :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[
Caz
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Hi Caz...when and where was he born ? EDIT 1879 Brighton
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Hi Gortonboy
William Henry Foster was born in Brighton about 1879. Married Annie Wilkinson also born Brighton about 1880.
Caz
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you do have his service record to 1919?
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search for
First name William
Last name Foster
Service number 168806, WR/287238
Rank Company Quartermaster Sergeant, Sergeant Major
Corps Royal Engineers
Service record Soldier Number: 168806, Rank: Company Quartermaster Sergeant, Corps: Royal Engineers
Service record 2 Soldier Number: WR/287238, Rank: Sergeant Major, Corps: Royal Engineers
Archive reference WO372/7
Archive reference description Campaign Medal Index Cards and Silver War Badge Cards
Country Great Britain
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award of meritorious service medal London Gazette
look about halfway down ,right hand side...hes number 168806 W Foster
https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30717/supplement/6491
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mentioned in despatches note...doesnt say why,,,his service record gives a little more info
https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30480/supplement/932
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the title page to previous post
https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30480/supplement/932
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Oh wow, this is awesome!
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have a google regarding the Egyptian expedtionary force under General Allenby,,,,you will get an idea of what William was getting himself into... Lawrence of Arabia and all that...lol. ;)
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I've just downloaded his military records from both FindMyPast and Ancestry (I've searched on many occasions before and always drawn a blank ::) ). In his service record there is a letter William wrote to the Commander in Chief of the Royal Engineers asking if there was any vacancies. The letter was received by the military on 4 May......my birthday. :)
What a day this has turned out to be. When you least expect things!!! :o :o
Gosh I love Rootschatters!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D
Caz
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have a google regarding the Egyptian expedtionary force under General Allenby,,,,you will get an idea of what William was getting himself into... Lawrence of Arabia and all that...lol. ;)
:o :o :o No way!
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This is all we can find about his death. He actually had three children, his eldest was still in the UK.
Caz
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Hi Caroline, we are related to William he's my Great Grandfather via Naomi, it's amazing to find more relatives and my uncle has traced the family tree, but you're bringing up info that we weren't sure if, we knew William worked on the railways and was murdered out there and Naomi aged 16 brought here grieving Mother (Annie) & Harry home .
How are you related to William?
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Good grief...how do you know he was murdered?
I'm connected through Annie Wilkinson. She was the daughter of my Great, Great Uncle Richard Wilkinson. Brian Wilkinson who you responded to on the other thread is more closely connected to you (he is my third cousin). His Great Grandparents were Richard Wilkinson and Mary Harris parents of Annie that married Henry Foster. Brian's grandfather was William Wilkinson, brother to Annie. This makes Naomi his first cousin, once removed.
Don't suppose you have any photos at all? We think we have a family photo of the Fosters and would love to confirm whether it is them or not.
Caz
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We recognise the photo you posted, we can see Ada and Naomi.
Naomi always said that she remembers looking out though the window see two men in suits approaching the door and she knew there was bad news, they'd come to say that he/William had been killed/murdered on the railway!
I'll look for photos, we weren't aware of Egypt or India, but Gran (Naomi) never really said much about her Dad, that's probably why if he was away a huge amount! We have passenger lists for Canadian Pacific and French Pacific with their names on!
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Here's a crude drawing of where Brian fits in. My line is through John Willkinson, Richard's brother.
I'll private message you with my email address! So excited! ;D ;D ;D ;D
Caroline
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I've sent you a private message with my email address! :) :)
Caroline