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General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: cazza59 on Monday 14 October 13 08:56 BST (UK)

Title: Royal Engineers - 1922 - Peking - Mudken Railway
Post by: cazza59 on Monday 14 October 13 08:56 BST (UK)
Hi All

I've recently discovered that a relative, a Sergeant Major William Henry Foster was in the Royal Engineers and was killed in an accident in 1922 while working on the Peking - Mudken Railway.  In a newspaper clipping we found about his death, it states that he "drove the train that took Marshal Joffre from Mudken to Shanghaikwan". 

Can anyone give me some more information about the Royal Engineers, e.g. how it would have come about that he ended up in China,  in fact anything at all that I can use as background information or how I can go about researching his background.

Prior to being in China, he was in India arriving sometime between 1906 and 1911, if that helps.  :-\

Fingerscrossed!

Kind regards
Caroline
Title: Re: Royal Engineers - 1922 - Peking - Mudken Railway
Post by: km1971 on Monday 14 October 13 09:55 BST (UK)
Hi Caroline

If you know his army number you can apply to the MOD for his service record. As he died while serving you do not have to supply a copy of his death certificate. If you do not have this it may be better to contact the Royal Engineers museum. As they may have something on a senior NCO.

Like all major powers, the UK had troops in China until the communist revolution. This increased after the Boxer rebellion so foreign powers could protect their legations in Peking. The British North China Command was in Tientsin, a city with 6-7 foreign concessions. Nearby Weihaiwei was a British colony from 1898 to 1930.

Ken
Title: Re: Royal Engineers - 1922 - Peking - Mudken Railway
Post by: cazza59 on Tuesday 15 October 13 03:29 BST (UK)
Hi Ken

Thank you for responding.  We actually just got his death certificate, but up until a couple of days ago, had no idea he was in the army, so unfortunately we don't have his army number. I will try and contact the RE museum as you suggest. 

I'm going through Ancestry records at the moment to see if his service record is there but no luck so far.

Thank you for your assistance, very much appreciated!

Kind regards
Caroline
Title: Re: Royal Engineers - 1922 - Peking - Mudken Railway
Post by: km1971 on Tuesday 15 October 13 07:59 BST (UK)
I'm going through Ancestry records at the moment to see if his service record is there but no luck so far.

Hi Caroline

Ancestry may have a record for medal(s) for WW1 and/or India. But it will not have his service record, as they only have them for men discharged 1914 to 1920. If he was serving in 1911 they will also have him in the census of that year, even if he was serving overseas. The one exception is Ireland which are online separately. One problem with the 1911 Irish census is that men in institutions, including the army, are only recorded by their initials. Wives and children of soldiers are however recorded separately in full.

Ken
Title: Re: Royal Engineers - 1922 - Peking - Mudken Railway
Post by: cazza59 on Tuesday 15 October 13 09:26 BST (UK)
Pardon my stupidity, but to you mean he will  be on the English 1911 census because we've searched high and low, or do you mean on the Indian 1911 census?

Two of his daughters were sent back to England from India in 1912, while his wife returned to England from India in 1914 presumably because she was pregnant and of course, WWI starting.  I think it's possible he may have returned to the UK by 1916 and then went out to China.  According to the newspaper snippet, his wife and two youngest children had only just joined him in China shortly before he was killed (1921/22) in an "accident" with no further details.   Even his death certificate simply states "accident" which seems a bit odd to me and would have expected some sort of description e.g. killed by landslide; hit by train but no, so I'm really keen to get his service record as hopefully it will contain further details.

Once again, thank you for your interest!

Caroline


Title: Re: Royal Engineers - 1922 - Peking - Mudken Railway
Post by: km1971 on Tuesday 15 October 13 11:08 BST (UK)
All overseas military census for 1911 comes under England as the county of 'Military'. However any search would include this, so you should have found him or his family.

What were names/ages of his wife and children in 1911?

Ken
Title: Re: Royal Engineers - 1922 - Peking - Mudken Railway
Post by: PDoddie on Monday 24 August 15 21:30 BST (UK)
Hi Caz, I know you posted a long time ago, but I have relatives with those names, are you also relations? Re
Title: Re: Royal Engineers - 1922 - Peking - Mudken Railway
Post by: cazza59 on Tuesday 25 August 15 02:33 BST (UK)
Hi PDoddle


I just responded to you on the other post before reading this one!!  Just to reaffirm, I am connected to William Henry Foster who was married to Annie Wilkinson, children Rose, Naomi and Harry all born in Brighton.

Fingerscrossed we have a connection!

Caz

Title: Re: Royal Engineers - 1922 - Peking - Mudken Railway
Post by: cazza59 on Tuesday 25 August 15 02:36 BST (UK)
All overseas military census for 1911 comes under England as the county of 'Military'. However any search would include this, so you should have found him or his family.

What were names/ages of his wife and children in 1911?

Ken

I am so sorry Ken, I don't know how I missed your last post, but I do apologise for overlooking your comment!   I am very appreciative of you taking the time to search and respond on my behalf so  please accept my apologies for the oversight!   :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[

Caz
Title: Re: Royal Engineers - 1922 - Peking - Mudken Railway
Post by: gortonboy on Tuesday 25 August 15 03:07 BST (UK)
Hi Caz...when and where was he born ?  EDIT     1879 Brighton
Title: Re: Royal Engineers - 1922 - Peking - Mudken Railway
Post by: cazza59 on Tuesday 25 August 15 03:31 BST (UK)
Hi Gortonboy

William Henry Foster was born in Brighton about 1879.  Married Annie Wilkinson also born Brighton about 1880.

Caz
Title: Re: Royal Engineers - 1922 - Peking - Mudken Railway
Post by: gortonboy on Tuesday 25 August 15 03:41 BST (UK)
you do have his service record to 1919? 
Title: Re: Royal Engineers - 1922 - Peking - Mudken Railway
Post by: gortonboy on Tuesday 25 August 15 03:54 BST (UK)
search for


First name   William
Last name   Foster
Service number   168806, WR/287238
Rank   Company Quartermaster Sergeant, Sergeant Major
Corps   Royal Engineers
Service record   Soldier Number: 168806, Rank: Company Quartermaster Sergeant, Corps: Royal Engineers
Service record 2   Soldier Number: WR/287238, Rank: Sergeant Major, Corps: Royal Engineers
Archive reference   WO372/7
Archive reference description   Campaign Medal Index Cards and Silver War Badge Cards
Country   Great Britain
Title: Re: Royal Engineers - 1922 - Peking - Mudken Railway
Post by: gortonboy on Tuesday 25 August 15 04:20 BST (UK)
award of meritorious service medal   London Gazette

look about halfway down ,right hand side...hes number 168806   W Foster

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30717/supplement/6491
Title: Re: Royal Engineers - 1922 - Peking - Mudken Railway
Post by: gortonboy on Tuesday 25 August 15 04:23 BST (UK)
mentioned in despatches note...doesnt say why,,,his service record gives a little more info

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30480/supplement/932
Title: Re: Royal Engineers - 1922 - Peking - Mudken Railway
Post by: gortonboy on Tuesday 25 August 15 04:25 BST (UK)
the title page to previous post


https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30480/supplement/932
Title: Re: Royal Engineers - 1922 - Peking - Mudken Railway
Post by: cazza59 on Tuesday 25 August 15 04:34 BST (UK)
Oh wow, this is awesome!
Title: Re: Royal Engineers - 1922 - Peking - Mudken Railway
Post by: gortonboy on Tuesday 25 August 15 04:57 BST (UK)
have a google regarding the Egyptian expedtionary force under General Allenby,,,,you will get an idea of what William was getting himself into...  Lawrence of Arabia and all that...lol.  ;)
Title: Re: Royal Engineers - 1922 - Peking - Mudken Railway
Post by: cazza59 on Tuesday 25 August 15 05:57 BST (UK)
I've just downloaded his military records from both FindMyPast and Ancestry (I've searched on many occasions before and always drawn a blank  ::) ).  In his service record there is a letter William wrote to the Commander in Chief of the Royal Engineers asking if there was any vacancies.  The letter was received by the military on 4 May......my birthday.   :)

What a day this has turned out to be.  When you least expect things!!!  :o :o

Gosh I love Rootschatters!!!  ;D ;D ;D ;D

Caz
Title: Re: Royal Engineers - 1922 - Peking - Mudken Railway
Post by: cazza59 on Tuesday 25 August 15 05:59 BST (UK)
have a google regarding the Egyptian expedtionary force under General Allenby,,,,you will get an idea of what William was getting himself into...  Lawrence of Arabia and all that...lol.  ;)


 :o :o :o No way!   

Title: Re: Royal Engineers - 1922 - Peking - Mudken Railway
Post by: cazza59 on Tuesday 25 August 15 06:18 BST (UK)
This is all we can find about his death.  He actually had three children, his eldest was still in the UK.

Caz
Title: Re: Royal Engineers - 1922 - Peking - Mudken Railway
Post by: PDoddie on Tuesday 25 August 15 08:21 BST (UK)
Hi Caroline, we are related to William he's my Great Grandfather via Naomi, it's amazing to find more relatives and my uncle has traced the family tree, but you're bringing up info that we weren't sure if, we knew William worked on the railways and was murdered out there and Naomi aged 16 brought here grieving Mother (Annie) & Harry home .
How are you related to William?
Title: Re: Royal Engineers - 1922 - Peking - Mudken Railway
Post by: cazza59 on Tuesday 25 August 15 08:40 BST (UK)
Good grief...how do you know he was murdered?

I'm connected through Annie Wilkinson.  She was the daughter of my Great, Great Uncle Richard Wilkinson.  Brian Wilkinson who you responded to on the other thread is more closely connected to you (he is my third cousin).  His Great Grandparents were Richard Wilkinson and Mary Harris parents of Annie that married Henry Foster.  Brian's grandfather was William Wilkinson, brother to Annie.  This makes Naomi his  first cousin, once removed.

Don't suppose you have any photos at all?  We think we have a family photo of the Fosters and would love to confirm whether it is them or not.

Caz
Title: Re: Royal Engineers - 1922 - Peking - Mudken Railway
Post by: PDoddie on Tuesday 25 August 15 08:57 BST (UK)
We recognise the photo you posted, we can see Ada and Naomi.
Naomi always said that she remembers looking out though the window see two men in suits approaching the door and she knew there was bad news, they'd come to say that he/William had been killed/murdered on the railway!
I'll look for photos, we weren't aware of Egypt or India, but Gran (Naomi) never really said much about her Dad, that's probably why if he was away a huge amount! We have passenger lists for Canadian Pacific and French Pacific with their names on!
Title: Re: Royal Engineers - 1922 - Peking - Mudken Railway
Post by: cazza59 on Tuesday 25 August 15 09:08 BST (UK)
Here's a crude drawing of where Brian fits in.   My line is through John Willkinson, Richard's brother.

I'll private message you with my email address!  So excited!   ;D ;D ;D ;D

Caroline

Title: Re: Royal Engineers - 1922 - Peking - Mudken Railway
Post by: cazza59 on Tuesday 25 August 15 10:26 BST (UK)
I've sent you a private message with my email address!   :) :)

Caroline