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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Essex => England => Essex Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Sinamint on Monday 14 October 13 00:33 BST (UK)
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I'm desperately trying to find out info about my great grandparents but have very little to go on. I'm interested in Robert Charles Clover (possibly born 1945?) who married Elizabeth Mary Frances. They had 4 children together: Ethel, Ruby, Strathcona, and Owen and then Elizabeth had 2 from a previous marriage: Kathleen, and Clifford. I have some limited info about their kids as Ethel is my grandma but no one knows anything about her parents Robert and Elizabeth. I've chosen this Essex board to post 'cause Ethel was born in Colchester so it's the best starting point I've got. I've been at a dead end for several years now for that side of the family--they seem to just be this giant question mark in my family. Anyone who can be of any help at all would be greatly appreciated.
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Hi and welcome to Rootschat, have you got the 1945 year of birth wrong for Robert Charles Clover, as their is a birth of a Strathcona A Clover Sept qtr 1915 Tendring Essex 4a 1344 Mothers maiden name Francis?
And a possible marriage:-
Robert Charles Clover to (on same page) Elizabeth Mary Cheverton Sept qtr 1903 Colchester 4a 1279?
Keyboard86
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Hi again:-
Marriage Joseph Cheverton/Chiverton to (on same page) Elizabeth Mary Francis March qtr 1899 Tendring 4a 653
1901 Census
Joseph Cheverton 29 occ Groom & Gardener b Weeley Essex
Elizabeth 23 b Walton on Naze Essex
Clifford 1 b Weeley
Residing at Stoneham Street, Great Coggleshall, Essex
Census Ref RG13/1724/36/2
Birth Kathleen Alice Cheverton Dec qtr 1901 Braintree 4a 851
Possible death:-
Joseph Cheverton March qtr 1903 Southwark 1d 13 aged 31
If this is him, Elizabeth Mary didn't hang about getting re-married!
Keyboard86
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Hi there, I believe that the Clover family you refer to emigrated to Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada.
In 1938 in the Voters register Mr & Mrs Robert Clover and Strathcona Clover are listed.
Mr Strathcona Clover died 15 Aug 1984 in New Westminster, Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada.
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Yes, sorry, I think 1945 was the year he died, not the year he was born.
Thank you both so much, that's more info than I've managed to find in like over 10 years lol It sounds like it's probably the right Clover family. I'm just tickled to finally get some blank spots filled in on the family tree. Any tips on how I could try to find out more?
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Yes, sorry, I think 1945 was the year he died, not the year he was born.
Thank you both so much, that's more info than I've managed to find in like over 10 years lol It sounds like it's probably the right Clover family. I'm just tickled to finally get some blank spots filled in on the family tree. Any tips on how I could try to find out more?
Keep posting on here!
Mark
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Hi again, so that others can possibly assist more in ie Canada, are these the children of Robert Charles Clover and Elizabeth Mary Cheverton nee Francis prior to 1911?
Gladys Ruby F Clover June qtr 1904 Colchester 4a 802
Ethel Muriel Clover Dec qtr 1906 Romford 4a 580
Owen Robert C Clover June qtr 1908 Colchester 4a 850
It is possible the family emigrated 11th July 1919 Liverpool to Quebec on SS Melita
Their is this departure:-
Owen Robt Clover 23 occ AB (ie in the Navy) address in UK Canada House, London W departing Southampton for Quebec on SS Alaunia 4th October 1932
Keyboard86
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Ethel Muriel is not one of their kids--they did have an Ethel, but her full name is Elsie Ethel May Clover (she chose to go by Ethel rather than Elsie though). Not sure about Gladys Ruby F--they did have a daughter named Ruby but no idea if that was a middle name or a first name. I've never heard anyone mention a Gladys before but my family is pretty clueless about the Clover side so it's quite possible that's her.
I tried finding a passenger list for the SS Melita but was unable to see any Clover's on it. I might not have been looking at the right year though so will have to check into that again. One of my biggest question marks about my Grandma's life has always been when and why they came over to Canada, would be awesome to finally find out!
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OK so Ethel's birth was:-
Elsie Ethel M Clover Dec qtr 1905 Colchester 4a 773
Keyboard86
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Hi you are correct
This is the right family. Elizabeth Mary Francis was a widow when she married Robert Charles Clover. She had two children who took the name Clover. In 1911 census the children tend to be using their middle names.
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Hi there, I believe that the Clover family you refer to emigrated to Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada.
In 1938 in the Voters register Mr & Mrs Robert Clover and Strathcona Clover are listed.
Mr Strathcona Clover died 15 Aug 1984 in New Westminster, Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada.
Hi to add to this post, although you may already be aware:-
Death Strathcona Alderson Clover Birth 19th August 1915 Essex Death 15th August 1984 New Westminster, British Coulumbia aged 68 Marital Status Divorced Spouses name Ethel Rose Burden
And does this one appertain to your Owen Robert Clover?
Death Mona Georgina Clover Event Date 1st March 1937 Event Place North Vancouver, British Columbia aged 24 Married Birth Date 13th February 1913 Birth Place South Vancouver Fathers name John George Sentance Mothers Name Emma Georgina Waldron Spouses name Owen R Clover.
And does this one appertain to Kathleen Alice Cheverton
Death Patrick Albin Thynne Event date 2nd June 1981 White Rock, British Columbia aged 80 Marital status Married Birth Date 30th January 1901 Place Warrington, England Fathers name Thynne? (Checking the 1901 census his father was also a Patrick) Spouses name Kathleen Alice Cheverton.
Keyboard86
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I didn't have a death date for Strathcona before so thank you both for that info. I'm assuming that's the right Strathcona 'cause it's such a unique name I don't imagine there would be another Strathcona Clover out there.
I had found a marriage index entry for a marriage between Georgina Sentance and Owen Robert C Clover so that could very well be the Mona Georgina Clover you mentioned.
I don't know if my Owen Clover was ever married or not, but, again, there can't be too many Owen Robert Charles Clover's out there I wouldn't think? According to these dates they were only married for 4 years before she died and she died very young. I wonder what happened to her?
Patrick Albin Thynne--I have no idea if that entry pertains to my Kathleen Alice Cheverton or not. I really know next to nothing about her unfortunately. Something else to look into further.
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Hi again, I have been in terrible trouble trying to locate Elizabeth Mary Francis prior to marriage, it may be (if you wish to clearly follow the correct families back) purchase either of her marriage certs as I believe Elizabeth to be born a plain Elizabeth, and only appears to use the Mary middle name at marriage, do you have Ethels birth certificate to see if Elizabeth is an Elizabeth Mary or not?
I think she is the daughter possibly of Thomas and Matilda Francis, Matilda dies aged 40 and Elizabeth is with her Grandmother Elizabeth Rycroft in 1891 aged 9, which suggests that the age shown on the 1901 census is overstated.
Only thinking aloud, would be grateful for any thoughts!
Keyboard86
PS The birth date of Strathcona ties in with the Freebmd birth reg I depicted at the start.
Also where the hell is Clifford James Cheverton after 1911?
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Hi Clifford James Cheverton used the name Clifford Clover (at least in the 1911 census) and when he enlisted during WW1. His Army records are on Ancestry.
Also gives his father as Robert Clover - soldier in Canada. Clifford enlisted in Colchester
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Should have said,
I am descend from one of Robets's cousins. Am away at the moment, but should be able to help more tomorrow when I have my records to refer to
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Hi Geoff_43 any chance of you posting a link to your thread re the family, as you 2 must be related, I see that a load of the info I had located is on it, but lots more which I found interesting!
Keyboard86
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My CLOVER's are from Suffolk, I'll have to look and see if I can follow them down, they may join to Robert.
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haliared
I have the line back to James Clover 1777-1855 who married Sarah Flowerday 1782-1855. James was baptised in Ramsey, Essex, England of Martha Clover. No father is mentioned, and he not referred to as 'base born'. There are other baptisms in Ramsey where parents are Martha and John Clover. Martha is always written 1st.
Does this relate to any of your line? So far I have found no Suffolk connection.
keyboard86
Probably being thick, but not sure what thread you mean. I have no online tree, so can not point you there.
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Hi Geoff, It seems unlikely at the moment, though not impossible. Mine were from Stowmarket and Buxhall/Buschall in Suffolk.
The furthest back I've got is Isaac Kimble CLOVER, who I believe is the son of Mary KIMBLE, baptised 31 Jan 1802 in Kersey, Suffolk. In April 1802 she then married an Isaac CLOVER in Kersey.
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Hi All.
Here is what my records have for Robert Charles Clover
Born 1875 Harwich, Essex - Parents Robert Samuel Clover 1850-1921 & Alice Eliza White 1857-1928
He was eldest child of 11 ( I made an error in previous post - sorry! Child No. 8 Adelaide Ruby Clover was my grandmother)
He joined the Essex Militia 11 Mar 1891. then enlisted as a driver with the Royal Artillery 26 May 1891
He was posted to South Africa 1899-1902, discharged 25 May 1903
Married Widow Elizabeth Mary Chelverton (nee Francis) 1903 Colchester District
1911 living in Colchester with family
1914 Soldier in Canada
Mar 1919 Acting Sergeant in Canadian Expeditionary Force sailing from UK to Halifax
Death 1945 Vancouver
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haliared
There are a few online trees that have the next generation back as coming from Suffolk, but I have never made that connection myself.
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haliared
I have the line back to James Clover 1777-1855 who married Sarah Flowerday 1782-1855. James was baptised in Ramsey, Essex, England of Martha Clover. No father is mentioned, and he not referred to as 'base born'. There are other baptisms in Ramsey where parents are Martha and John Clover. Martha is always written 1st.
Does this relate to any of your line? So far I have found no Suffolk connection.
keyboard86
Probably being thick, but not sure what thread you mean. I have no online tree, so can not point you there.
? Serving in Canada I think on this forum
Keyboard86
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Strange, the link does not seem to work.
Best thing is, if any one wants more info, please PM me & I will send what I can. Copyright rules prevent me posting it here.
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Thanks Geoff,
I'm like you, I don't like to jump to conclusions either.
I've seen so many online trees with glaring errors such as children being born after the mother's death date so I don't trust them! I prefer to check all the evidence available before coming to a reasoned decision but if there is not any overwhelming evidence it gets stuck at that point rather than I make a mistake.
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Random thought
A few years ago, a lot of us met up on Roots all researching another line of mine. We formed a group, where we all kept in touch re FH. It works well, we swap info, ask questions, opinions etc. It often works that one of us knows the answer to another's question.
Or because we are world wide, some one can find an answer easier than the others.
Any one fancy forming a CLOVER group? It works best by email though
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That sounds like a good idea to me Geoff.
The CLOVER side of my family tree are not my direct line, but I found them interesting so I followed them. As I have other family in Stowmarket, I found the name CLOVER kept appearing next to my family when I was researching them so I think there will end up being another link somewhere there too!
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Ok,
All those who wish to sign up PM me & we will take it from there. I am also in touch with a Clover descendant in Canada. I would never disclose their ID, but they may also like to sign up. I'll ask them
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keyboard86
I have Elsie Ethel May Clover's birth certificate and it lists her mother as Elizabeth Mary Frances.
Unfortunately I have no info to contribute--most of my info has come from you guys in here just over the last few days lol
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HI,
I AM ELIZABETH MARY FRANCES CHEVERTON CLOVERS GRANDSON. I CAN TELL YOU SOME THINGS NOW AND MORE LATER WHEN I HAVE MORE TIME. ROBERT CLOVER WAS SENT TO CANADA BY HIMSELF AT FIRST AS A SALESMAN (MY MOTHER KNOWS MORE OF THE DETAILS) WW1 BROKE OUT WHILE IN CANADA SO HE JOINED THE CANADIAN ARMY (MORE DETAILS LATER).
I BELIEVE 1921 THE FAMILY MOVED TO EDMONTON, AB. ROBERT, ELIZABETH, STRATH, OWEN, CLIFFORD, KATHLEEN, ETHEL, AND RUBY. KATHLEEN MARRIED JOHN (JACK) KOCH, THEY HAD ONE CHILD, DESMOND ALBERT KOCH. ELIZABETH, KATHLEEN, STRATH, AND OWEN ALL LIVED IN VANCOUVER WHEN I WAS A KID. KATHLEEN DIED IN 1994 AND IS BURIED NEXT TO HER MOTHER. I BELIEVE IN BURNABY MAYBE VANCOUVER I WILL LET YOU KNOW LATER. BYE FOR NOW
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Hi Lbswift,
Welcome to Rootschat.
Would be happy to swap info with you
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Hi LBSWIFT. It's always nice to meet another CLOVER descendant. I'm also happy to swap info.